|
Re: design flaw : F20A 's air intake gets useless heat from radiator*coolant
> > * via thermostat is [i] steel-piped next to & heat is transferred into
> > rocker cover's breather hose > <SNIP> > does not drop after * heats up [iii] warm-starts are easier. > > -------------------------------------- > > I looked at your other posts. Why do you own such a badly designed car? What a laugh! I just read through some as well. I love this one: "Bonnet's rubber seals & felt, front wheels' hub caps too can be removed, to help cool engine." Sounds like his problem is the loose nut between the steering wheel and the driver's seat. Steve |
Re: design flaw : F20A 's air intake gets useless heat from radiator*coolant
| > Why do you own such a badly designed car?
So far all its design flaws ( 3 more & 2 inadequacies which I tell friends & relatives ) can be corrected / mitigated. I love its 4ws ( saves time, very scarce now : no new model has 4ws ), perfect rust proofing. No electric / hybrid / toyota's super 4ws on sale yet. | "Bonnet's rubber seals Removal of these let air enter & cool intake manifold & chamber , & let out hot air produced by air con's radiator. Torque rose 3%. | & felt lets heat enter bonnet & escape via convection / radiation | front wheels' hub caps too can be removed, to help cool engine. My front wheels used to be too hot to touch, caused by this * flow design flaw & cheapo exhaust manifold. Removal of hub cap will let drive shaft & engine cool faster, unnecessary for well cooled engines, but for desparate users with severe overheating, this can help a bit, esp on original steel wheels with 15½" Ø plastic caps. | loose nut between the steering wheel and the driver's seat. Salesmen / dealers all deny flaws, & denigrate to deter exposers, to protect their bread & butter, just like in 1 thread above ( 11-5-06 ) on ignition switch. |
Re: design flaw : F20A 's air intake gets useless heat from radiator*coolant
| > Why do you own such a badly designed car?
So far all its design flaws ( 3 more & 2 inadequacies which I tell friends & relatives ) can be corrected / mitigated. I love its 4ws ( saves time, very scarce now : no new model has 4ws ), perfect rust proofing. No electric / hybrid / toyota's super 4ws on sale yet. | "Bonnet's rubber seals Removal of these let air enter & cool intake manifold & chamber , & let out hot air produced by air con's radiator. Torque rose 3%. | & felt lets heat enter bonnet & escape via convection / radiation | front wheels' hub caps too can be removed, to help cool engine. My front wheels used to be too hot to touch, caused by this * flow design flaw & cheapo exhaust manifold. Removal of hub cap will let drive shaft & engine cool faster, unnecessary for well cooled engines, but for desparate users with severe overheating, this can help a bit, esp on original steel wheels with 15½" Ø plastic caps. | loose nut between the steering wheel and the driver's seat. Salesmen / dealers all deny flaws, & denigrate to deter exposers, to protect their bread & butter, just like in 1 thread above ( 11-5-06 ) on ignition switch. |
Re: design flaw : F20A 's air intake gets useless heat from radiator*coolant
| > Why do you own such a badly designed car?
So far all its design flaws ( 3 more & 2 inadequacies which I tell friends & relatives ) can be corrected / mitigated. I love its 4ws ( saves time, very scarce now : no new model has 4ws ), perfect rust proofing. No electric / hybrid / toyota's super 4ws on sale yet. | "Bonnet's rubber seals Removal of these let air enter & cool intake manifold & chamber , & let out hot air produced by air con's radiator. Torque rose 3%. | & felt lets heat enter bonnet & escape via convection / radiation | front wheels' hub caps too can be removed, to help cool engine. My front wheels used to be too hot to touch, caused by this * flow design flaw & cheapo exhaust manifold. Removal of hub cap will let drive shaft & engine cool faster, unnecessary for well cooled engines, but for desparate users with severe overheating, this can help a bit, esp on original steel wheels with 15½" Ø plastic caps. | loose nut between the steering wheel and the driver's seat. Salesmen / dealers all deny flaws, & denigrate to deter exposers, to protect their bread & butter, just like in 1 thread above ( 11-5-06 ) on ignition switch. |
Re: design flaw : F20A 's air intake gets useless heat from radiator*coolant
Jim Yanik wrote:
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in > news:OuqdnUjFs9QaPAXZnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: > > >>Jim Yanik wrote: >> >>>jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in >>>news:lrWdnX4uvr91awrZnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@speakeasy .net: >>> >>> >>> >>>>TE Chea wrote: >>>><snip> >>>> >>>>you need to stop drinking the "cold air intake" coolaid there guy. >>>>it may be fine for you kidz in the nice warm county of l.a. to run >>>>about with disabled de-icing equipment, but anywhere else in the >>>>country, it becomes a bit of an issue when your car sputters to a >>>>halt because of ice buildup. >>>> >>>>as an aside, i had my air intake cover off the other day, and forgot >>>>to screw it on tightly. the screws worked their way out after a few >>>>hundred miles, and the air intake cover popped off. it was >>>>noticeable by two things: >>>> >>>>1. increased noise. ok, ho hum. >>>> >>>>2. big /decrease/ in power. the "ultimate" cold air intake, i.e. no >>>>intake at all produces /less/ power???!!! yep, you better believe >>>>it. >>> >>> >>>Uh,the air intake is still from the hot under-hood air.All you did >>>was shorten the intake runner length,which reduces torque. >>>If you don't believe cold air enables more power,then explain why >>>racers put scoops and ducts on their race cars.It wouldn't make >>>sense,adding more drag to get cold air that doesn't produce more >>>power. >> >>uh, i understand how it works thanks. what i'm saying is that it's >>not so simple as most of the "cai" crowd believes. if the intake >>tubing is tuned correctly, i.e. resonances are set specifically, it >>enhances the air charge entering the engine. done right, it >>flattens/broadens power/torque curves. otherwise you're stuck with >>huge flat spots in the engine's performance, exactly what i was >>experiencing. >> >>"tuning" the air charge has /way/ more effect than the minor density >>differences made by a few degrees of ambient air temperature. >> >> >>>>now, it's possible that some aftermarket manufacturers of air intakes >>>>know what they're doing and understand airflow resonance dynamics and >>>>the effect it has on engine air induction, but somehow i doubt most >>>>of them do. but hey, most of this stuff is not for performance, it's >>>>just for show... >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > If Honda Tuning Magazine still has the article,they did flow bench and dyno > tests on an RSX for several different brands of short rams and two cold air > intakes.They did a reference test on the unaltered vehicle,then tested each > intake system.Both CAIs got 20HP and modest torque increases.The short rams > only got 5-7 HP gains. They included their graphs in the magazine > article.They also discussed the effect of intake air temperature WRT making > power. i appreciate what you're saying jim, but did they drop a thermistor into the air stream to measure the difference in air temperature between the two? i'll be surprised if they did because i can't say i've ever seen one of those "dyno graph" articles that ever has. without that, they're simply measuring the dynamic air charging effect differences - what i was talking about before. you're right, temperature /can/ make a difference to power yield [an 80 degree difference in air temp gets you roughly 10% difference in air density] but again, have you ever seen temperature reading differences quoted? and what difference does it make for a *moving vehicle* with & without cai? airflow under the hood is, well, you get the picture... just questions to ask. > > It was a very informative article.Maybe you can get a back issue. > |
Re: design flaw : F20A 's air intake gets useless heat from radiator*coolant
Jim Yanik wrote:
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in > news:OuqdnUjFs9QaPAXZnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: > > >>Jim Yanik wrote: >> >>>jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in >>>news:lrWdnX4uvr91awrZnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@speakeasy .net: >>> >>> >>> >>>>TE Chea wrote: >>>><snip> >>>> >>>>you need to stop drinking the "cold air intake" coolaid there guy. >>>>it may be fine for you kidz in the nice warm county of l.a. to run >>>>about with disabled de-icing equipment, but anywhere else in the >>>>country, it becomes a bit of an issue when your car sputters to a >>>>halt because of ice buildup. >>>> >>>>as an aside, i had my air intake cover off the other day, and forgot >>>>to screw it on tightly. the screws worked their way out after a few >>>>hundred miles, and the air intake cover popped off. it was >>>>noticeable by two things: >>>> >>>>1. increased noise. ok, ho hum. >>>> >>>>2. big /decrease/ in power. the "ultimate" cold air intake, i.e. no >>>>intake at all produces /less/ power???!!! yep, you better believe >>>>it. >>> >>> >>>Uh,the air intake is still from the hot under-hood air.All you did >>>was shorten the intake runner length,which reduces torque. >>>If you don't believe cold air enables more power,then explain why >>>racers put scoops and ducts on their race cars.It wouldn't make >>>sense,adding more drag to get cold air that doesn't produce more >>>power. >> >>uh, i understand how it works thanks. what i'm saying is that it's >>not so simple as most of the "cai" crowd believes. if the intake >>tubing is tuned correctly, i.e. resonances are set specifically, it >>enhances the air charge entering the engine. done right, it >>flattens/broadens power/torque curves. otherwise you're stuck with >>huge flat spots in the engine's performance, exactly what i was >>experiencing. >> >>"tuning" the air charge has /way/ more effect than the minor density >>differences made by a few degrees of ambient air temperature. >> >> >>>>now, it's possible that some aftermarket manufacturers of air intakes >>>>know what they're doing and understand airflow resonance dynamics and >>>>the effect it has on engine air induction, but somehow i doubt most >>>>of them do. but hey, most of this stuff is not for performance, it's >>>>just for show... >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > If Honda Tuning Magazine still has the article,they did flow bench and dyno > tests on an RSX for several different brands of short rams and two cold air > intakes.They did a reference test on the unaltered vehicle,then tested each > intake system.Both CAIs got 20HP and modest torque increases.The short rams > only got 5-7 HP gains. They included their graphs in the magazine > article.They also discussed the effect of intake air temperature WRT making > power. i appreciate what you're saying jim, but did they drop a thermistor into the air stream to measure the difference in air temperature between the two? i'll be surprised if they did because i can't say i've ever seen one of those "dyno graph" articles that ever has. without that, they're simply measuring the dynamic air charging effect differences - what i was talking about before. you're right, temperature /can/ make a difference to power yield [an 80 degree difference in air temp gets you roughly 10% difference in air density] but again, have you ever seen temperature reading differences quoted? and what difference does it make for a *moving vehicle* with & without cai? airflow under the hood is, well, you get the picture... just questions to ask. > > It was a very informative article.Maybe you can get a back issue. > |
Re: design flaw : F20A 's air intake gets useless heat from radiator*coolant
Jim Yanik wrote:
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in > news:OuqdnUjFs9QaPAXZnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: > > >>Jim Yanik wrote: >> >>>jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in >>>news:lrWdnX4uvr91awrZnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@speakeasy .net: >>> >>> >>> >>>>TE Chea wrote: >>>><snip> >>>> >>>>you need to stop drinking the "cold air intake" coolaid there guy. >>>>it may be fine for you kidz in the nice warm county of l.a. to run >>>>about with disabled de-icing equipment, but anywhere else in the >>>>country, it becomes a bit of an issue when your car sputters to a >>>>halt because of ice buildup. >>>> >>>>as an aside, i had my air intake cover off the other day, and forgot >>>>to screw it on tightly. the screws worked their way out after a few >>>>hundred miles, and the air intake cover popped off. it was >>>>noticeable by two things: >>>> >>>>1. increased noise. ok, ho hum. >>>> >>>>2. big /decrease/ in power. the "ultimate" cold air intake, i.e. no >>>>intake at all produces /less/ power???!!! yep, you better believe >>>>it. >>> >>> >>>Uh,the air intake is still from the hot under-hood air.All you did >>>was shorten the intake runner length,which reduces torque. >>>If you don't believe cold air enables more power,then explain why >>>racers put scoops and ducts on their race cars.It wouldn't make >>>sense,adding more drag to get cold air that doesn't produce more >>>power. >> >>uh, i understand how it works thanks. what i'm saying is that it's >>not so simple as most of the "cai" crowd believes. if the intake >>tubing is tuned correctly, i.e. resonances are set specifically, it >>enhances the air charge entering the engine. done right, it >>flattens/broadens power/torque curves. otherwise you're stuck with >>huge flat spots in the engine's performance, exactly what i was >>experiencing. >> >>"tuning" the air charge has /way/ more effect than the minor density >>differences made by a few degrees of ambient air temperature. >> >> >>>>now, it's possible that some aftermarket manufacturers of air intakes >>>>know what they're doing and understand airflow resonance dynamics and >>>>the effect it has on engine air induction, but somehow i doubt most >>>>of them do. but hey, most of this stuff is not for performance, it's >>>>just for show... >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > If Honda Tuning Magazine still has the article,they did flow bench and dyno > tests on an RSX for several different brands of short rams and two cold air > intakes.They did a reference test on the unaltered vehicle,then tested each > intake system.Both CAIs got 20HP and modest torque increases.The short rams > only got 5-7 HP gains. They included their graphs in the magazine > article.They also discussed the effect of intake air temperature WRT making > power. i appreciate what you're saying jim, but did they drop a thermistor into the air stream to measure the difference in air temperature between the two? i'll be surprised if they did because i can't say i've ever seen one of those "dyno graph" articles that ever has. without that, they're simply measuring the dynamic air charging effect differences - what i was talking about before. you're right, temperature /can/ make a difference to power yield [an 80 degree difference in air temp gets you roughly 10% difference in air density] but again, have you ever seen temperature reading differences quoted? and what difference does it make for a *moving vehicle* with & without cai? airflow under the hood is, well, you get the picture... just questions to ask. > > It was a very informative article.Maybe you can get a back issue. > |
Re: design flaw : F20A 's air intake gets useless heat from radiator*coolant
> | front wheels' hub caps too can be removed, to help cool engine.
> My front wheels used to be too hot to touch, caused by this * flow > design flaw & cheapo exhaust manifold. Removal of hub cap will > let drive shaft & engine cool faster, unnecessary for well cooled > engines, but for desparate users with severe overheating, this can > help a bit, esp on original steel wheels with 15½" Ø plastic caps. You've got to be f***in kidding me. Plonk. Steve |
Re: design flaw : F20A 's air intake gets useless heat from radiator*coolant
> | front wheels' hub caps too can be removed, to help cool engine.
> My front wheels used to be too hot to touch, caused by this * flow > design flaw & cheapo exhaust manifold. Removal of hub cap will > let drive shaft & engine cool faster, unnecessary for well cooled > engines, but for desparate users with severe overheating, this can > help a bit, esp on original steel wheels with 15½" Ø plastic caps. You've got to be f***in kidding me. Plonk. Steve |
Re: design flaw : F20A 's air intake gets useless heat from radiator*coolant
> | front wheels' hub caps too can be removed, to help cool engine.
> My front wheels used to be too hot to touch, caused by this * flow > design flaw & cheapo exhaust manifold. Removal of hub cap will > let drive shaft & engine cool faster, unnecessary for well cooled > engines, but for desparate users with severe overheating, this can > help a bit, esp on original steel wheels with 15½" Ø plastic caps. You've got to be f***in kidding me. Plonk. Steve |
Re: design flaw : F20A 's air intake gets useless heat from radiator*coolant
jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:bM-dncpQr4WtgQfZnZ2dnUVZ_oCdnZ2d@speakeasy.net: > Jim Yanik wrote: >> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in >> news:OuqdnUjFs9QaPAXZnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: >> >> >>>Jim Yanik wrote: >>> >>>>jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in >>>>news:lrWdnX4uvr91awrZnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@speakeas y.net: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>TE Chea wrote: >>>>><snip> >>>>> >>>>>you need to stop drinking the "cold air intake" coolaid there guy. >>>>>it may be fine for you kidz in the nice warm county of l.a. to run >>>>>about with disabled de-icing equipment, but anywhere else in the >>>>>country, it becomes a bit of an issue when your car sputters to a >>>>>halt because of ice buildup. >>>>> >>>>>as an aside, i had my air intake cover off the other day, and >>>>>forgot to screw it on tightly. the screws worked their way out >>>>>after a few hundred miles, and the air intake cover popped off. it >>>>>was noticeable by two things: >>>>> >>>>>1. increased noise. ok, ho hum. >>>>> >>>>>2. big /decrease/ in power. the "ultimate" cold air intake, i.e. >>>>>no intake at all produces /less/ power???!!! yep, you better >>>>>believe it. >>>> >>>> >>>>Uh,the air intake is still from the hot under-hood air.All you did >>>>was shorten the intake runner length,which reduces torque. >>>>If you don't believe cold air enables more power,then explain why >>>>racers put scoops and ducts on their race cars.It wouldn't make >>>>sense,adding more drag to get cold air that doesn't produce more >>>>power. >>> >>>uh, i understand how it works thanks. what i'm saying is that it's >>>not so simple as most of the "cai" crowd believes. if the intake >>>tubing is tuned correctly, i.e. resonances are set specifically, it >>>enhances the air charge entering the engine. done right, it >>>flattens/broadens power/torque curves. otherwise you're stuck with >>>huge flat spots in the engine's performance, exactly what i was >>>experiencing. >>> >>>"tuning" the air charge has /way/ more effect than the minor density >>>differences made by a few degrees of ambient air temperature. >>> >>> >>>>>now, it's possible that some aftermarket manufacturers of air >>>>>intakes know what they're doing and understand airflow resonance >>>>>dynamics and the effect it has on engine air induction, but somehow >>>>>i doubt most of them do. but hey, most of this stuff is not for >>>>>performance, it's just for show... >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> If Honda Tuning Magazine still has the article,they did flow bench >> and dyno tests on an RSX for several different brands of short rams >> and two cold air intakes.They did a reference test on the unaltered >> vehicle,then tested each intake system.Both CAIs got 20HP and modest >> torque increases.The short rams only got 5-7 HP gains. They included >> their graphs in the magazine article.They also discussed the effect >> of intake air temperature WRT making power. > > i appreciate what you're saying jim, but did they drop a thermistor > into the air stream to measure the difference in air temperature > between the two? They used the OBDII intake air temp measurements read from the ECU's own sensors. > i'll be surprised if they did because i can't say > i've ever seen one of those "dyno graph" articles that ever has. > without that, they're simply measuring the dynamic air charging effect > differences - what i was talking about before. you're right, > temperature /can/ make a difference to power yield [an 80 degree > difference in air temp gets you roughly 10% difference in air density] > but again, have you ever seen temperature reading differences quoted? > and what difference does it make for a *moving vehicle* with & without > cai? airflow under the hood is, well, you get the picture... just > questions to ask. even with airflow under the hood,the underhood temerature is much higher than outside.There's radiated engine heat that is retained. > >> >> It was a very informative article.Maybe you can get a back issue. >> > You really should get a copy of the article. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: design flaw : F20A 's air intake gets useless heat from radiator*coolant
jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:bM-dncpQr4WtgQfZnZ2dnUVZ_oCdnZ2d@speakeasy.net: > Jim Yanik wrote: >> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in >> news:OuqdnUjFs9QaPAXZnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: >> >> >>>Jim Yanik wrote: >>> >>>>jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in >>>>news:lrWdnX4uvr91awrZnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@speakeas y.net: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>TE Chea wrote: >>>>><snip> >>>>> >>>>>you need to stop drinking the "cold air intake" coolaid there guy. >>>>>it may be fine for you kidz in the nice warm county of l.a. to run >>>>>about with disabled de-icing equipment, but anywhere else in the >>>>>country, it becomes a bit of an issue when your car sputters to a >>>>>halt because of ice buildup. >>>>> >>>>>as an aside, i had my air intake cover off the other day, and >>>>>forgot to screw it on tightly. the screws worked their way out >>>>>after a few hundred miles, and the air intake cover popped off. it >>>>>was noticeable by two things: >>>>> >>>>>1. increased noise. ok, ho hum. >>>>> >>>>>2. big /decrease/ in power. the "ultimate" cold air intake, i.e. >>>>>no intake at all produces /less/ power???!!! yep, you better >>>>>believe it. >>>> >>>> >>>>Uh,the air intake is still from the hot under-hood air.All you did >>>>was shorten the intake runner length,which reduces torque. >>>>If you don't believe cold air enables more power,then explain why >>>>racers put scoops and ducts on their race cars.It wouldn't make >>>>sense,adding more drag to get cold air that doesn't produce more >>>>power. >>> >>>uh, i understand how it works thanks. what i'm saying is that it's >>>not so simple as most of the "cai" crowd believes. if the intake >>>tubing is tuned correctly, i.e. resonances are set specifically, it >>>enhances the air charge entering the engine. done right, it >>>flattens/broadens power/torque curves. otherwise you're stuck with >>>huge flat spots in the engine's performance, exactly what i was >>>experiencing. >>> >>>"tuning" the air charge has /way/ more effect than the minor density >>>differences made by a few degrees of ambient air temperature. >>> >>> >>>>>now, it's possible that some aftermarket manufacturers of air >>>>>intakes know what they're doing and understand airflow resonance >>>>>dynamics and the effect it has on engine air induction, but somehow >>>>>i doubt most of them do. but hey, most of this stuff is not for >>>>>performance, it's just for show... >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> If Honda Tuning Magazine still has the article,they did flow bench >> and dyno tests on an RSX for several different brands of short rams >> and two cold air intakes.They did a reference test on the unaltered >> vehicle,then tested each intake system.Both CAIs got 20HP and modest >> torque increases.The short rams only got 5-7 HP gains. They included >> their graphs in the magazine article.They also discussed the effect >> of intake air temperature WRT making power. > > i appreciate what you're saying jim, but did they drop a thermistor > into the air stream to measure the difference in air temperature > between the two? They used the OBDII intake air temp measurements read from the ECU's own sensors. > i'll be surprised if they did because i can't say > i've ever seen one of those "dyno graph" articles that ever has. > without that, they're simply measuring the dynamic air charging effect > differences - what i was talking about before. you're right, > temperature /can/ make a difference to power yield [an 80 degree > difference in air temp gets you roughly 10% difference in air density] > but again, have you ever seen temperature reading differences quoted? > and what difference does it make for a *moving vehicle* with & without > cai? airflow under the hood is, well, you get the picture... just > questions to ask. even with airflow under the hood,the underhood temerature is much higher than outside.There's radiated engine heat that is retained. > >> >> It was a very informative article.Maybe you can get a back issue. >> > You really should get a copy of the article. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: design flaw : F20A 's air intake gets useless heat from radiator*coolant
jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:bM-dncpQr4WtgQfZnZ2dnUVZ_oCdnZ2d@speakeasy.net: > Jim Yanik wrote: >> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in >> news:OuqdnUjFs9QaPAXZnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: >> >> >>>Jim Yanik wrote: >>> >>>>jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in >>>>news:lrWdnX4uvr91awrZnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@speakeas y.net: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>TE Chea wrote: >>>>><snip> >>>>> >>>>>you need to stop drinking the "cold air intake" coolaid there guy. >>>>>it may be fine for you kidz in the nice warm county of l.a. to run >>>>>about with disabled de-icing equipment, but anywhere else in the >>>>>country, it becomes a bit of an issue when your car sputters to a >>>>>halt because of ice buildup. >>>>> >>>>>as an aside, i had my air intake cover off the other day, and >>>>>forgot to screw it on tightly. the screws worked their way out >>>>>after a few hundred miles, and the air intake cover popped off. it >>>>>was noticeable by two things: >>>>> >>>>>1. increased noise. ok, ho hum. >>>>> >>>>>2. big /decrease/ in power. the "ultimate" cold air intake, i.e. >>>>>no intake at all produces /less/ power???!!! yep, you better >>>>>believe it. >>>> >>>> >>>>Uh,the air intake is still from the hot under-hood air.All you did >>>>was shorten the intake runner length,which reduces torque. >>>>If you don't believe cold air enables more power,then explain why >>>>racers put scoops and ducts on their race cars.It wouldn't make >>>>sense,adding more drag to get cold air that doesn't produce more >>>>power. >>> >>>uh, i understand how it works thanks. what i'm saying is that it's >>>not so simple as most of the "cai" crowd believes. if the intake >>>tubing is tuned correctly, i.e. resonances are set specifically, it >>>enhances the air charge entering the engine. done right, it >>>flattens/broadens power/torque curves. otherwise you're stuck with >>>huge flat spots in the engine's performance, exactly what i was >>>experiencing. >>> >>>"tuning" the air charge has /way/ more effect than the minor density >>>differences made by a few degrees of ambient air temperature. >>> >>> >>>>>now, it's possible that some aftermarket manufacturers of air >>>>>intakes know what they're doing and understand airflow resonance >>>>>dynamics and the effect it has on engine air induction, but somehow >>>>>i doubt most of them do. but hey, most of this stuff is not for >>>>>performance, it's just for show... >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> If Honda Tuning Magazine still has the article,they did flow bench >> and dyno tests on an RSX for several different brands of short rams >> and two cold air intakes.They did a reference test on the unaltered >> vehicle,then tested each intake system.Both CAIs got 20HP and modest >> torque increases.The short rams only got 5-7 HP gains. They included >> their graphs in the magazine article.They also discussed the effect >> of intake air temperature WRT making power. > > i appreciate what you're saying jim, but did they drop a thermistor > into the air stream to measure the difference in air temperature > between the two? They used the OBDII intake air temp measurements read from the ECU's own sensors. > i'll be surprised if they did because i can't say > i've ever seen one of those "dyno graph" articles that ever has. > without that, they're simply measuring the dynamic air charging effect > differences - what i was talking about before. you're right, > temperature /can/ make a difference to power yield [an 80 degree > difference in air temp gets you roughly 10% difference in air density] > but again, have you ever seen temperature reading differences quoted? > and what difference does it make for a *moving vehicle* with & without > cai? airflow under the hood is, well, you get the picture... just > questions to ask. even with airflow under the hood,the underhood temerature is much higher than outside.There's radiated engine heat that is retained. > >> >> It was a very informative article.Maybe you can get a back issue. >> > You really should get a copy of the article. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: design flaw : F20A 's air intake gets useless heat from radiator*coolant
On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:20:34 +0800, "TE Chea" <4ws@gmail.com> wrote:
>| front wheels' hub caps too can be removed, to help cool engine. >My front wheels used to be too hot to touch, caused by this * flow >design flaw & cheapo exhaust manifold. Removal of hub cap will >let drive shaft & engine cool faster, unnecessary for well cooled >engines, but for desparate users with severe overheating, this can >help a bit, esp on original steel wheels with 15½" Ø plastic caps. If your wheels are too hot to touch then you probably have a brake problem (or you are riding them/failing to downshift for long descents). Removing the wheel covers could help with brake cooling, but the effect on engine cooling would be negligible. Hondas have excellent engine cooling. The only time I have ever had a gauge go much above half was when the system had lost coolant. That has happened two or three times in 35 vehicle years of ownership of five Honda cars. I have run these cars in Chicago traffic in ambient temperatures from -28F to 106F and I have never found the cooling system to be inadequate in any way. So I would suggest that if yours is inadequate, it may need repair or it may be due to one or more of your modifications. If the former, then fix the problem. If the latter, then feel free to make whatever further modifications are necessary to correct these problems. Just don't whine that the car is defective. |
Re: design flaw : F20A 's air intake gets useless heat from radiator*coolant
On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:20:34 +0800, "TE Chea" <4ws@gmail.com> wrote:
>| front wheels' hub caps too can be removed, to help cool engine. >My front wheels used to be too hot to touch, caused by this * flow >design flaw & cheapo exhaust manifold. Removal of hub cap will >let drive shaft & engine cool faster, unnecessary for well cooled >engines, but for desparate users with severe overheating, this can >help a bit, esp on original steel wheels with 15½" Ø plastic caps. If your wheels are too hot to touch then you probably have a brake problem (or you are riding them/failing to downshift for long descents). Removing the wheel covers could help with brake cooling, but the effect on engine cooling would be negligible. Hondas have excellent engine cooling. The only time I have ever had a gauge go much above half was when the system had lost coolant. That has happened two or three times in 35 vehicle years of ownership of five Honda cars. I have run these cars in Chicago traffic in ambient temperatures from -28F to 106F and I have never found the cooling system to be inadequate in any way. So I would suggest that if yours is inadequate, it may need repair or it may be due to one or more of your modifications. If the former, then fix the problem. If the latter, then feel free to make whatever further modifications are necessary to correct these problems. Just don't whine that the car is defective. |
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