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-   -   Determining oil change intervals via analysis (https://www.gtcarz.com/honda-mailing-list-327/determining-oil-change-intervals-via-analysis-293060/)

The Ghost of General Lee 08-03-2006 10:29 PM

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 16:50:02 GMT, Brian Nystrom
<brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote:

>HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
>> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
>> news:ctmdnT5DGZCWZ0zZnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>
>>>HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:UglAg.14167$Ju.1048@trndny09...
>>>> hmmmm.
>>>>
>>>>>Probably the biggest benefit of UOA is that it proves to people that
>>>>>oils last much longer than many of them think. With any kind of luck,

>>
>> it
>>
>>>>>will convince people once and for all that changing your oil any more
>>>>>frequently than the car manufacturer recommends is an unnecessary waste
>>>>>of a diminishing resource. Any money saved is a secondary benefit.
>>>>
>>>>Actually, it doesn't prove that at all.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>er, actually, yes it does.

>>
>>
>> If it proves it to you, that is fair enough. What is your background of
>> expertise in
>> this subject?
>>
>> But it doesnt prove it to me.

>
>Well, perhaps you regard ignorance and stubborness as virtues, but I
>don't. It never ceases to amaze me that people can look at scientific
>data that refutes their beliefs and just dismiss it because they don't
>like it. It takes all kinds, I guess...


Faith based car maintenance?


JS 08-03-2006 11:28 PM

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 
Stubby wrote:
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>> With a car, sure I'd just keep on driving it. Oil analysis can't
>> predict with any certainty when an engine will fail. In a airplane,
>> I'd have it torn down and inspected. However, this is much easier
>> than with most cars. A good aircraft mechanic can rebuild the top end
>> of an airplane engine in the time the car mechanic is getting the
>> accessories removed from a modern car.

>
> To rebuild a small airplane engine costs about $20,000 and takes months.
> You don't want to do it unless you have good evidence that it is needed.


Hah. That all depends on how deep your pockets are. I've seen an
engine exchange ($$$$$$) in a commercially-owned single-engine tri-tail
bonanza. Total downtime was 3 days, but they prolly spent $25k on the
job in the mid 90s.

The biggest issue with general aviation aircraft is they're still using
100% manual engine controls. While our cars have advanced greatly in
engine management, airplanes are still dicking around with mixture and
carb heat knobs. All it takes is one descent with the mixture knob out
to destroy an engine. Or you run overrich and get crappy economy and
clogged up sparkplugs.

JS


JS 08-03-2006 11:28 PM

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 
Stubby wrote:
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>> With a car, sure I'd just keep on driving it. Oil analysis can't
>> predict with any certainty when an engine will fail. In a airplane,
>> I'd have it torn down and inspected. However, this is much easier
>> than with most cars. A good aircraft mechanic can rebuild the top end
>> of an airplane engine in the time the car mechanic is getting the
>> accessories removed from a modern car.

>
> To rebuild a small airplane engine costs about $20,000 and takes months.
> You don't want to do it unless you have good evidence that it is needed.


Hah. That all depends on how deep your pockets are. I've seen an
engine exchange ($$$$$$) in a commercially-owned single-engine tri-tail
bonanza. Total downtime was 3 days, but they prolly spent $25k on the
job in the mid 90s.

The biggest issue with general aviation aircraft is they're still using
100% manual engine controls. While our cars have advanced greatly in
engine management, airplanes are still dicking around with mixture and
carb heat knobs. All it takes is one descent with the mixture knob out
to destroy an engine. Or you run overrich and get crappy economy and
clogged up sparkplugs.

JS


JS 08-03-2006 11:28 PM

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 
Stubby wrote:
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>> With a car, sure I'd just keep on driving it. Oil analysis can't
>> predict with any certainty when an engine will fail. In a airplane,
>> I'd have it torn down and inspected. However, this is much easier
>> than with most cars. A good aircraft mechanic can rebuild the top end
>> of an airplane engine in the time the car mechanic is getting the
>> accessories removed from a modern car.

>
> To rebuild a small airplane engine costs about $20,000 and takes months.
> You don't want to do it unless you have good evidence that it is needed.


Hah. That all depends on how deep your pockets are. I've seen an
engine exchange ($$$$$$) in a commercially-owned single-engine tri-tail
bonanza. Total downtime was 3 days, but they prolly spent $25k on the
job in the mid 90s.

The biggest issue with general aviation aircraft is they're still using
100% manual engine controls. While our cars have advanced greatly in
engine management, airplanes are still dicking around with mixture and
carb heat knobs. All it takes is one descent with the mixture knob out
to destroy an engine. Or you run overrich and get crappy economy and
clogged up sparkplugs.

JS


jim beam 08-04-2006 01:19 AM

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 
The Ghost of General Lee wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 16:50:02 GMT, Brian Nystrom
> <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
>>> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
>>> news:ctmdnT5DGZCWZ0zZnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>
>>>> HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:UglAg.14167$Ju.1048@trndny09...
>>>>> hmmmm.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Probably the biggest benefit of UOA is that it proves to people that
>>>>>> oils last much longer than many of them think. With any kind of luck,
>>> it
>>>
>>>>>> will convince people once and for all that changing your oil any more
>>>>>> frequently than the car manufacturer recommends is an unnecessary waste
>>>>>> of a diminishing resource. Any money saved is a secondary benefit.
>>>>> Actually, it doesn't prove that at all.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> er, actually, yes it does.
>>>
>>> If it proves it to you, that is fair enough. What is your background of
>>> expertise in
>>> this subject?
>>>
>>> But it doesnt prove it to me.

>> Well, perhaps you regard ignorance and stubborness as virtues, but I
>> don't. It never ceases to amaze me that people can look at scientific
>> data that refutes their beliefs and just dismiss it because they don't
>> like it. It takes all kinds, I guess...

>
> Faith based car maintenance?
>

sure! beats bothering to actually learn anything.

jim beam 08-04-2006 01:19 AM

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 
The Ghost of General Lee wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 16:50:02 GMT, Brian Nystrom
> <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
>>> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
>>> news:ctmdnT5DGZCWZ0zZnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>
>>>> HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:UglAg.14167$Ju.1048@trndny09...
>>>>> hmmmm.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Probably the biggest benefit of UOA is that it proves to people that
>>>>>> oils last much longer than many of them think. With any kind of luck,
>>> it
>>>
>>>>>> will convince people once and for all that changing your oil any more
>>>>>> frequently than the car manufacturer recommends is an unnecessary waste
>>>>>> of a diminishing resource. Any money saved is a secondary benefit.
>>>>> Actually, it doesn't prove that at all.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> er, actually, yes it does.
>>>
>>> If it proves it to you, that is fair enough. What is your background of
>>> expertise in
>>> this subject?
>>>
>>> But it doesnt prove it to me.

>> Well, perhaps you regard ignorance and stubborness as virtues, but I
>> don't. It never ceases to amaze me that people can look at scientific
>> data that refutes their beliefs and just dismiss it because they don't
>> like it. It takes all kinds, I guess...

>
> Faith based car maintenance?
>

sure! beats bothering to actually learn anything.

jim beam 08-04-2006 01:19 AM

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 
The Ghost of General Lee wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 16:50:02 GMT, Brian Nystrom
> <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
>>> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
>>> news:ctmdnT5DGZCWZ0zZnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>
>>>> HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:UglAg.14167$Ju.1048@trndny09...
>>>>> hmmmm.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Probably the biggest benefit of UOA is that it proves to people that
>>>>>> oils last much longer than many of them think. With any kind of luck,
>>> it
>>>
>>>>>> will convince people once and for all that changing your oil any more
>>>>>> frequently than the car manufacturer recommends is an unnecessary waste
>>>>>> of a diminishing resource. Any money saved is a secondary benefit.
>>>>> Actually, it doesn't prove that at all.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> er, actually, yes it does.
>>>
>>> If it proves it to you, that is fair enough. What is your background of
>>> expertise in
>>> this subject?
>>>
>>> But it doesnt prove it to me.

>> Well, perhaps you regard ignorance and stubborness as virtues, but I
>> don't. It never ceases to amaze me that people can look at scientific
>> data that refutes their beliefs and just dismiss it because they don't
>> like it. It takes all kinds, I guess...

>
> Faith based car maintenance?
>

sure! beats bothering to actually learn anything.

JS 08-04-2006 01:27 AM

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 
Nobody Important wrote:
> HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
>> I would have found it out without an oil analysis, because I replace
>> my air filters regularly. It's cheaper, and less ambiguous, than
>> spending
>> money on an oil analysis and analyst.

>
> In my neck of the woods, air filters need to be replaced only once every
> two years or so; they don't get dirty enough to warrant replacement
> before then. I had replaced mine in Jan 2005 and wasn't due for a
> replacement for another 8 months or so.


Once a year here, sometimes twice. Pine pollen season clogs them up
noticeably every time. Sometimes hay season can do it, too.

On my dodge truck, OTOH, which spends time on sand/silt roads and has
the worlds crappiest air intake design ever (it sucks air right off the
passenger wheel), its about 3x a year and I put about 1/3rd as many
miles on it.

JS


JS 08-04-2006 01:27 AM

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 
Nobody Important wrote:
> HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
>> I would have found it out without an oil analysis, because I replace
>> my air filters regularly. It's cheaper, and less ambiguous, than
>> spending
>> money on an oil analysis and analyst.

>
> In my neck of the woods, air filters need to be replaced only once every
> two years or so; they don't get dirty enough to warrant replacement
> before then. I had replaced mine in Jan 2005 and wasn't due for a
> replacement for another 8 months or so.


Once a year here, sometimes twice. Pine pollen season clogs them up
noticeably every time. Sometimes hay season can do it, too.

On my dodge truck, OTOH, which spends time on sand/silt roads and has
the worlds crappiest air intake design ever (it sucks air right off the
passenger wheel), its about 3x a year and I put about 1/3rd as many
miles on it.

JS


JS 08-04-2006 01:27 AM

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 
Nobody Important wrote:
> HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
>> I would have found it out without an oil analysis, because I replace
>> my air filters regularly. It's cheaper, and less ambiguous, than
>> spending
>> money on an oil analysis and analyst.

>
> In my neck of the woods, air filters need to be replaced only once every
> two years or so; they don't get dirty enough to warrant replacement
> before then. I had replaced mine in Jan 2005 and wasn't due for a
> replacement for another 8 months or so.


Once a year here, sometimes twice. Pine pollen season clogs them up
noticeably every time. Sometimes hay season can do it, too.

On my dodge truck, OTOH, which spends time on sand/silt roads and has
the worlds crappiest air intake design ever (it sucks air right off the
passenger wheel), its about 3x a year and I put about 1/3rd as many
miles on it.

JS


Jim Warman 08-04-2006 02:52 AM

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 
So... I take it nobody has seen that this cross posting bastuhd hasn't
replied to his thread????

"I'll have spam. spam. spam, spam, baked beans and spam"....


"dbltap" <DoubleTap@37.com> wrote in message
news:1ucAg.2477$xp2.1947@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> http://www.autoblog.com/2006/08/02/d...-via-analysis/
>




Jim Warman 08-04-2006 02:52 AM

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 
So... I take it nobody has seen that this cross posting bastuhd hasn't
replied to his thread????

"I'll have spam. spam. spam, spam, baked beans and spam"....


"dbltap" <DoubleTap@37.com> wrote in message
news:1ucAg.2477$xp2.1947@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> http://www.autoblog.com/2006/08/02/d...-via-analysis/
>




Jim Warman 08-04-2006 02:52 AM

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 
So... I take it nobody has seen that this cross posting bastuhd hasn't
replied to his thread????

"I'll have spam. spam. spam, spam, baked beans and spam"....


"dbltap" <DoubleTap@37.com> wrote in message
news:1ucAg.2477$xp2.1947@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> http://www.autoblog.com/2006/08/02/d...-via-analysis/
>




Matt Whiting 08-04-2006 06:26 AM

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 
JS wrote:

> Stubby wrote:
>
>> Matt Whiting wrote:
>>
>>> With a car, sure I'd just keep on driving it. Oil analysis can't
>>> predict with any certainty when an engine will fail. In a airplane,
>>> I'd have it torn down and inspected. However, this is much easier
>>> than with most cars. A good aircraft mechanic can rebuild the top
>>> end of an airplane engine in the time the car mechanic is getting the
>>> accessories removed from a modern car.

>>
>>
>> To rebuild a small airplane engine costs about $20,000 and takes
>> months. You don't want to do it unless you have good evidence that it
>> is needed.

>
>
> Hah. That all depends on how deep your pockets are. I've seen an
> engine exchange ($$$$$$) in a commercially-owned single-engine tri-tail
> bonanza. Total downtime was 3 days, but they prolly spent $25k on the
> job in the mid 90s.
>
> The biggest issue with general aviation aircraft is they're still using
> 100% manual engine controls. While our cars have advanced greatly in
> engine management, airplanes are still dicking around with mixture and
> carb heat knobs. All it takes is one descent with the mixture knob out
> to destroy an engine. Or you run overrich and get crappy economy and
> clogged up sparkplugs.


Not all airplanes. Check out Cirrus and other new designs.

Matt

Matt Whiting 08-04-2006 06:26 AM

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 
JS wrote:

> Stubby wrote:
>
>> Matt Whiting wrote:
>>
>>> With a car, sure I'd just keep on driving it. Oil analysis can't
>>> predict with any certainty when an engine will fail. In a airplane,
>>> I'd have it torn down and inspected. However, this is much easier
>>> than with most cars. A good aircraft mechanic can rebuild the top
>>> end of an airplane engine in the time the car mechanic is getting the
>>> accessories removed from a modern car.

>>
>>
>> To rebuild a small airplane engine costs about $20,000 and takes
>> months. You don't want to do it unless you have good evidence that it
>> is needed.

>
>
> Hah. That all depends on how deep your pockets are. I've seen an
> engine exchange ($$$$$$) in a commercially-owned single-engine tri-tail
> bonanza. Total downtime was 3 days, but they prolly spent $25k on the
> job in the mid 90s.
>
> The biggest issue with general aviation aircraft is they're still using
> 100% manual engine controls. While our cars have advanced greatly in
> engine management, airplanes are still dicking around with mixture and
> carb heat knobs. All it takes is one descent with the mixture knob out
> to destroy an engine. Or you run overrich and get crappy economy and
> clogged up sparkplugs.


Not all airplanes. Check out Cirrus and other new designs.

Matt


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