Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

"Nobody Important" <Dr.Xenon1@gmail.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:lvoAg.33035$pu3.440284@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>
> > Simply - that analysis does not, cannot, and does not pretend to predict
or
> > to even offer the foundation for a prediction that an engine may or may
not
> > fail in six months.
>
> I got an oil analysis done at Blackstone Labs just a few weeks ago. It
> showed elevated levels of silicon. A third party analyst, Terry Dyson,
> suggested that I had an air filtration problem, possibly that the air
> filter was being bypassed. I pulled the air filter and found peanut
> shells in the floor of the airbox. It turned out that a squirrel had
> chewed a hole in the underside of the hose connecting the airbox to the
> intake manifold. The hole was not visible to a casual inspection; I
> needed a mirror to find it.
>
> Had it not been for the oil analysis, I would have been feeding
> unfiltered air and nut shells to the engine for the rest of its
> (certainly shortened) life. It was worth the $30 to find this out.

I would have found it out without an oil analysis, because I replace
my air filters regularly. It's cheaper, and less ambiguous, than spending
money on an oil analysis and analyst.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

Mike's dead on: a typical automotive engine lives and operates in it's
own world. Aircraft engines have theirs -which is different- and
racing engines have their own world.

Among other things, this means all those products you see advertised on
race cars may not have any value to your typical car. Example: Joe
Racer advertises some miracle engine treatment or some super motor oil
that helps him win, or ultra hype air filters. Maybe these things do
help him.

But when a race engine is getting torn down and rebuilt and/or replaced
after every race, there's no way to relate what he gets to what average
passenger car driver would get.

That ultra hype air filter might work great for 500 miles, and nobody
really cares if it fails because the engine is going to get rebuilt
anyway.

But put that same filter in a passenger car where it might go a year
between anyone even looking at it?

And what about oil? Suppose Joe Racer hypes a crappy brand. Who
cares. It only has to last A race. Your passenger oil needs to last a
lot longer under much more harsh conditions like stop and go, failure
to reach proper temps, jackrabbits, etc.

The message is use the right part for the right application, and that
goes for oil tests, lubricants, filters, fuel, tires, etc. Keep
apples with apples.

Mike Marlow wrote:
> Airplane engines do not make a very good argument in this discussion. The
> rigors of an airplane engine's life are so very different from those of a
> car - not to mention the ramifications of any failure, that comparison is
> totally irrelevant. There are a multitude of maintenance practices that
> airplane undergo that are unique to them and have no associated practice in
> the automobile sector. Apples and oranges.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

Mike's dead on: a typical automotive engine lives and operates in it's
own world. Aircraft engines have theirs -which is different- and
racing engines have their own world.

Among other things, this means all those products you see advertised on
race cars may not have any value to your typical car. Example: Joe
Racer advertises some miracle engine treatment or some super motor oil
that helps him win, or ultra hype air filters. Maybe these things do
help him.

But when a race engine is getting torn down and rebuilt and/or replaced
after every race, there's no way to relate what he gets to what average
passenger car driver would get.

That ultra hype air filter might work great for 500 miles, and nobody
really cares if it fails because the engine is going to get rebuilt
anyway.

But put that same filter in a passenger car where it might go a year
between anyone even looking at it?

And what about oil? Suppose Joe Racer hypes a crappy brand. Who
cares. It only has to last A race. Your passenger oil needs to last a
lot longer under much more harsh conditions like stop and go, failure
to reach proper temps, jackrabbits, etc.

The message is use the right part for the right application, and that
goes for oil tests, lubricants, filters, fuel, tires, etc. Keep
apples with apples.

Mike Marlow wrote:
> Airplane engines do not make a very good argument in this discussion. The
> rigors of an airplane engine's life are so very different from those of a
> car - not to mention the ramifications of any failure, that comparison is
> totally irrelevant. There are a multitude of maintenance practices that
> airplane undergo that are unique to them and have no associated practice in
> the automobile sector. Apples and oranges.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

Mike's dead on: a typical automotive engine lives and operates in it's
own world. Aircraft engines have theirs -which is different- and
racing engines have their own world.

Among other things, this means all those products you see advertised on
race cars may not have any value to your typical car. Example: Joe
Racer advertises some miracle engine treatment or some super motor oil
that helps him win, or ultra hype air filters. Maybe these things do
help him.

But when a race engine is getting torn down and rebuilt and/or replaced
after every race, there's no way to relate what he gets to what average
passenger car driver would get.

That ultra hype air filter might work great for 500 miles, and nobody
really cares if it fails because the engine is going to get rebuilt
anyway.

But put that same filter in a passenger car where it might go a year
between anyone even looking at it?

And what about oil? Suppose Joe Racer hypes a crappy brand. Who
cares. It only has to last A race. Your passenger oil needs to last a
lot longer under much more harsh conditions like stop and go, failure
to reach proper temps, jackrabbits, etc.

The message is use the right part for the right application, and that
goes for oil tests, lubricants, filters, fuel, tires, etc. Keep
apples with apples.

Mike Marlow wrote:
> Airplane engines do not make a very good argument in this discussion. The
> rigors of an airplane engine's life are so very different from those of a
> car - not to mention the ramifications of any failure, that comparison is
> totally irrelevant. There are a multitude of maintenance practices that
> airplane undergo that are unique to them and have no associated practice in
> the automobile sector. Apples and oranges.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
> I would have found it out without an oil analysis, because I replace
> my air filters regularly. It's cheaper, and less ambiguous, than spending
> money on an oil analysis and analyst.

In my neck of the woods, air filters need to be replaced only once every
two years or so; they don't get dirty enough to warrant replacement
before then. I had replaced mine in Jan 2005 and wasn't due for a
replacement for another 8 months or so.

Perhaps there are some who pull their air filters every month just for
fun; I am not one of them.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
> I would have found it out without an oil analysis, because I replace
> my air filters regularly. It's cheaper, and less ambiguous, than spending
> money on an oil analysis and analyst.

In my neck of the woods, air filters need to be replaced only once every
two years or so; they don't get dirty enough to warrant replacement
before then. I had replaced mine in Jan 2005 and wasn't due for a
replacement for another 8 months or so.

Perhaps there are some who pull their air filters every month just for
fun; I am not one of them.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
> I would have found it out without an oil analysis, because I replace
> my air filters regularly. It's cheaper, and less ambiguous, than spending
> money on an oil analysis and analyst.

In my neck of the woods, air filters need to be replaced only once every
two years or so; they don't get dirty enough to warrant replacement
before then. I had replaced mine in Jan 2005 and wasn't due for a
replacement for another 8 months or so.

Perhaps there are some who pull their air filters every month just for
fun; I am not one of them.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jgpAg.9897$j9.1213@trnddc02...
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>
> >
> > To each his own as it relates to engine oil analysis, and as has been
said -
> > it's your money. It's foolish to think though that this analysis is
going
> > to offer the protection you are suggesting here.
> >
>
>
> Oil analysis is no cure all, but can and does catch problems like fuel
> dilution and anti-freeze contamination of motor oil.
>
> Just because you have never used a tool and don't appreciate it doesn't
> make you an expert :).
>

Agreed John, but snipping my direct responses to direct statements made by
the OP and replying to a summation statement made in the context of my
complete thoughts does not serve your point well.

I do appreciate what an occasional analysis can do but I also appreciate
what other routine maintenance practices can do as well. My comments were
specifically in address of bold statements made by the OP in the text that
was included with my reply. I stand by those.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jgpAg.9897$j9.1213@trnddc02...
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>
> >
> > To each his own as it relates to engine oil analysis, and as has been
said -
> > it's your money. It's foolish to think though that this analysis is
going
> > to offer the protection you are suggesting here.
> >
>
>
> Oil analysis is no cure all, but can and does catch problems like fuel
> dilution and anti-freeze contamination of motor oil.
>
> Just because you have never used a tool and don't appreciate it doesn't
> make you an expert :).
>

Agreed John, but snipping my direct responses to direct statements made by
the OP and replying to a summation statement made in the context of my
complete thoughts does not serve your point well.

I do appreciate what an occasional analysis can do but I also appreciate
what other routine maintenance practices can do as well. My comments were
specifically in address of bold statements made by the OP in the text that
was included with my reply. I stand by those.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jgpAg.9897$j9.1213@trnddc02...
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>
> >
> > To each his own as it relates to engine oil analysis, and as has been
said -
> > it's your money. It's foolish to think though that this analysis is
going
> > to offer the protection you are suggesting here.
> >
>
>
> Oil analysis is no cure all, but can and does catch problems like fuel
> dilution and anti-freeze contamination of motor oil.
>
> Just because you have never used a tool and don't appreciate it doesn't
> make you an expert :).
>

Agreed John, but snipping my direct responses to direct statements made by
the OP and replying to a summation statement made in the context of my
complete thoughts does not serve your point well.

I do appreciate what an occasional analysis can do but I also appreciate
what other routine maintenance practices can do as well. My comments were
specifically in address of bold statements made by the OP in the text that
was included with my reply. I stand by those.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
> news:ctmdnT5DGZCWZ0zZnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
>>HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
>>
>>>"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>news:UglAg.14167$Ju.1048@trndny09...
>>> hmmmm.
>>>
>>>>Probably the biggest benefit of UOA is that it proves to people that
>>>>oils last much longer than many of them think. With any kind of luck,
>
> it
>
>>>>will convince people once and for all that changing your oil any more
>>>>frequently than the car manufacturer recommends is an unnecessary waste
>>>>of a diminishing resource. Any money saved is a secondary benefit.
>>>
>>>Actually, it doesn't prove that at all.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>er, actually, yes it does.
>
>
> If it proves it to you, that is fair enough. What is your background of
> expertise in
> this subject?
>
> But it doesnt prove it to me.

Well, perhaps you regard ignorance and stubborness as virtues, but I
don't. It never ceases to amaze me that people can look at scientific
data that refutes their beliefs and just dismiss it because they don't
like it. It takes all kinds, I guess...

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
> news:ctmdnT5DGZCWZ0zZnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
>>HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
>>
>>>"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>news:UglAg.14167$Ju.1048@trndny09...
>>> hmmmm.
>>>
>>>>Probably the biggest benefit of UOA is that it proves to people that
>>>>oils last much longer than many of them think. With any kind of luck,
>
> it
>
>>>>will convince people once and for all that changing your oil any more
>>>>frequently than the car manufacturer recommends is an unnecessary waste
>>>>of a diminishing resource. Any money saved is a secondary benefit.
>>>
>>>Actually, it doesn't prove that at all.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>er, actually, yes it does.
>
>
> If it proves it to you, that is fair enough. What is your background of
> expertise in
> this subject?
>
> But it doesnt prove it to me.

Well, perhaps you regard ignorance and stubborness as virtues, but I
don't. It never ceases to amaze me that people can look at scientific
data that refutes their beliefs and just dismiss it because they don't
like it. It takes all kinds, I guess...

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
> news:ctmdnT5DGZCWZ0zZnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
>>HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
>>
>>>"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>news:UglAg.14167$Ju.1048@trndny09...
>>> hmmmm.
>>>
>>>>Probably the biggest benefit of UOA is that it proves to people that
>>>>oils last much longer than many of them think. With any kind of luck,
>
> it
>
>>>>will convince people once and for all that changing your oil any more
>>>>frequently than the car manufacturer recommends is an unnecessary waste
>>>>of a diminishing resource. Any money saved is a secondary benefit.
>>>
>>>Actually, it doesn't prove that at all.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>er, actually, yes it does.
>
>
> If it proves it to you, that is fair enough. What is your background of
> expertise in
> this subject?
>
> But it doesnt prove it to me.

Well, perhaps you regard ignorance and stubborness as virtues, but I
don't. It never ceases to amaze me that people can look at scientific
data that refutes their beliefs and just dismiss it because they don't
like it. It takes all kinds, I guess...

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

Stubby wrote:
>
>
> rmac wrote:
>
>> "dbltap" <DoubleTap@37.com> wrote in message
>> news:1ucAg.2477$xp2.1947@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
>>
>>> http://www.autoblog.com/2006/08/02/d...-via-analysis/
>>>
>>
>> Interesting how some people spend $30 for an oil analysis in order to
>> avoid a $20 oil change. hmmmm.
>
> The oil analysis is to get information on engine wear, not to avoid an
> oil change.

Actually, it provides information that can be used for both. It
indicates if the oil is still functioning properly so that one can
adjust oil change intervals as necessary. Of course, you can choose not
to do so and in the case of aircraft, you may be legally bound to follow
a specific maintenance schedule. That's not true of privately-owned cars.

> An airplane engine is more expensive than your car and if wear is
> happening, it needs to be addressed promptly.

Wear always happens. The oil analysis will point to particular areas of
wear and indicate whether there is any abnormal wear that needs to be
addressed.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

Stubby wrote:
>
>
> rmac wrote:
>
>> "dbltap" <DoubleTap@37.com> wrote in message
>> news:1ucAg.2477$xp2.1947@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
>>
>>> http://www.autoblog.com/2006/08/02/d...-via-analysis/
>>>
>>
>> Interesting how some people spend $30 for an oil analysis in order to
>> avoid a $20 oil change. hmmmm.
>
> The oil analysis is to get information on engine wear, not to avoid an
> oil change.

Actually, it provides information that can be used for both. It
indicates if the oil is still functioning properly so that one can
adjust oil change intervals as necessary. Of course, you can choose not
to do so and in the case of aircraft, you may be legally bound to follow
a specific maintenance schedule. That's not true of privately-owned cars.

> An airplane engine is more expensive than your car and if wear is
> happening, it needs to be addressed promptly.

Wear always happens. The oil analysis will point to particular areas of
wear and indicate whether there is any abnormal wear that needs to be
addressed.