Re: GM tops reliability and regains market share
 

I have to disagree with "better product from Japan"....many Honda's and
Toyotas are made in the USA or Canada and hold up just as well as their
Japanese made counterparts. Japanese engineering and preparation seem to be
superior to the American counterparts. I also take the stance in support of
buying "American made" that I would rather support the American workers who
build Pilots, Accords, Civics, etc, than the corporate pockets of GM/Ford,
etc, as the American factory workers need the money more than the suits in
Detroit. That said, if I buy a Honda or Toyota built here, I am still
supporting the American economy and feeding the mouths of families who rely
on that paycheck.


"D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:_LWdnYrh2eWiVW3fRVn-tg@comcast.com...
> It's unions, management, better product from Japan and the reliance on
> huge temporary profits from gas hogs.
>
> "routebeer" <d@aylor.com> wrote in message
> news:wn3Ie.5365$6D5.1604@newssvr29.news.prodigy.ne t...
>> "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:P5adnR9ogaZTxHLfRVn-rw@comcast.com...
>>> The market sets car prices, not the manufacturers. That being said, both
>> the
>>> new and the used car market prices HON/TOY products to last about
>>> 150,000
>>> miles. Sure, many go much longer and still have some residual worth at
>>> 150,000 miles. At 150,000 miles, they become "might last longer"
>>> vehicles...but not a great bet. But for GM/FORD the market prices them
>>> to
>> go
>>> only to 100,000 miles before it's worth merely a residual "might last
>>> longer" value. That's why a loaded CR-V can command $23,000 while you
>>> can
>>> find a similar Ford Escape that they can only get $18,000 for (after all
>> the
>>> rebate shenanigans). The market is recognizing that the Escape
>>> approaches
>>> crap at 100,000 miles while the CR-V probably won't approach crap until
>>> 150,000 miles. The HON/TOY is actually cheaper to own. Here the 'Scape
>> costs
>>> 18 cents/mile while the CR-V costs 15 cents/mile. And while most people
>>> don't own a car from showroom to junkyard, this same pricing pattern
>>> will
>>> show up at resale time so, again, even for the 2-3 year owner, the
>>> HON/TOY
>>> is cheaper than the GM/FORD to own. (I will say that with the depth of
>>> the
>>> GM/FORD rebates today, their cost per mile is approaching that of
>>> HON/TOY.
>>> But, of course, cutting prices enough to compensate people for this
>>> 50,000
>>> durability gap is killing both GM and FORD in the process).
>>
>>
>> I don't know, I think it's the unions that are killing the big three. It
>> costs GM and Ford too much to make a piece of here in the States.
>>
>>
>
>

Re: GM tops reliability and regains market share
 

Good point. I guess I should have just said that "Honda and Toyota make
better products" and left it at that.


"Larry" <ziggy_calif@nospam_yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bvtIe.1723$fJ1.1709@newssvr13.news.prodigy.co m...
>I have to disagree with "better product from Japan"....many Honda's and
>Toyotas are made in the USA or Canada and hold up just as well as their
>Japanese made counterparts. Japanese engineering and preparation seem to
>be superior to the American counterparts. I also take the stance in
>support of buying "American made" that I would rather support the American
>workers who build Pilots, Accords, Civics, etc, than the corporate pockets
>of GM/Ford, etc, as the American factory workers need the money more than
>the suits in Detroit. That said, if I buy a Honda or Toyota built here, I
>am still supporting the American economy and feeding the mouths of families
>who rely on that paycheck.
>
>
> "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:_LWdnYrh2eWiVW3fRVn-tg@comcast.com...
>> It's unions, management, better product from Japan and the reliance on
>> huge temporary profits from gas hogs.
>>
>> "routebeer" <d@aylor.com> wrote in message
>> news:wn3Ie.5365$6D5.1604@newssvr29.news.prodigy.ne t...
>>> "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:P5adnR9ogaZTxHLfRVn-rw@comcast.com...
>>>> The market sets car prices, not the manufacturers. That being said,
>>>> both
>>> the
>>>> new and the used car market prices HON/TOY products to last about
>>>> 150,000
>>>> miles. Sure, many go much longer and still have some residual worth at
>>>> 150,000 miles. At 150,000 miles, they become "might last longer"
>>>> vehicles...but not a great bet. But for GM/FORD the market prices them
>>>> to
>>> go
>>>> only to 100,000 miles before it's worth merely a residual "might last
>>>> longer" value. That's why a loaded CR-V can command $23,000 while you
>>>> can
>>>> find a similar Ford Escape that they can only get $18,000 for (after
>>>> all
>>> the
>>>> rebate shenanigans). The market is recognizing that the Escape
>>>> approaches
>>>> crap at 100,000 miles while the CR-V probably won't approach crap until
>>>> 150,000 miles. The HON/TOY is actually cheaper to own. Here the 'Scape
>>> costs
>>>> 18 cents/mile while the CR-V costs 15 cents/mile. And while most people
>>>> don't own a car from showroom to junkyard, this same pricing pattern
>>>> will
>>>> show up at resale time so, again, even for the 2-3 year owner, the
>>>> HON/TOY
>>>> is cheaper than the GM/FORD to own. (I will say that with the depth of
>>>> the
>>>> GM/FORD rebates today, their cost per mile is approaching that of
>>>> HON/TOY.
>>>> But, of course, cutting prices enough to compensate people for this
>>>> 50,000
>>>> durability gap is killing both GM and FORD in the process).
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know, I think it's the unions that are killing the big three.
>>> It
>>> costs GM and Ford too much to make a piece of here in the States.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: GM tops reliability and regains market share
 

Good point. I guess I should have just said that "Honda and Toyota make
better products" and left it at that.


"Larry" <ziggy_calif@nospam_yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bvtIe.1723$fJ1.1709@newssvr13.news.prodigy.co m...
>I have to disagree with "better product from Japan"....many Honda's and
>Toyotas are made in the USA or Canada and hold up just as well as their
>Japanese made counterparts. Japanese engineering and preparation seem to
>be superior to the American counterparts. I also take the stance in
>support of buying "American made" that I would rather support the American
>workers who build Pilots, Accords, Civics, etc, than the corporate pockets
>of GM/Ford, etc, as the American factory workers need the money more than
>the suits in Detroit. That said, if I buy a Honda or Toyota built here, I
>am still supporting the American economy and feeding the mouths of families
>who rely on that paycheck.
>
>
> "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:_LWdnYrh2eWiVW3fRVn-tg@comcast.com...
>> It's unions, management, better product from Japan and the reliance on
>> huge temporary profits from gas hogs.
>>
>> "routebeer" <d@aylor.com> wrote in message
>> news:wn3Ie.5365$6D5.1604@newssvr29.news.prodigy.ne t...
>>> "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:P5adnR9ogaZTxHLfRVn-rw@comcast.com...
>>>> The market sets car prices, not the manufacturers. That being said,
>>>> both
>>> the
>>>> new and the used car market prices HON/TOY products to last about
>>>> 150,000
>>>> miles. Sure, many go much longer and still have some residual worth at
>>>> 150,000 miles. At 150,000 miles, they become "might last longer"
>>>> vehicles...but not a great bet. But for GM/FORD the market prices them
>>>> to
>>> go
>>>> only to 100,000 miles before it's worth merely a residual "might last
>>>> longer" value. That's why a loaded CR-V can command $23,000 while you
>>>> can
>>>> find a similar Ford Escape that they can only get $18,000 for (after
>>>> all
>>> the
>>>> rebate shenanigans). The market is recognizing that the Escape
>>>> approaches
>>>> crap at 100,000 miles while the CR-V probably won't approach crap until
>>>> 150,000 miles. The HON/TOY is actually cheaper to own. Here the 'Scape
>>> costs
>>>> 18 cents/mile while the CR-V costs 15 cents/mile. And while most people
>>>> don't own a car from showroom to junkyard, this same pricing pattern
>>>> will
>>>> show up at resale time so, again, even for the 2-3 year owner, the
>>>> HON/TOY
>>>> is cheaper than the GM/FORD to own. (I will say that with the depth of
>>>> the
>>>> GM/FORD rebates today, their cost per mile is approaching that of
>>>> HON/TOY.
>>>> But, of course, cutting prices enough to compensate people for this
>>>> 50,000
>>>> durability gap is killing both GM and FORD in the process).
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know, I think it's the unions that are killing the big three.
>>> It
>>> costs GM and Ford too much to make a piece of here in the States.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: GM tops reliability and regains market share
 

"D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:xI6dnQSCjZqW8G_fRVn-sw@comcast.com...
> Good point. I guess I should have just said that "Honda and Toyota make
> better products" and left it at that.

Even with the alleged decline in quality of Toyota and Honda vehicles, I
would still trust them over product offerings from GM, Ford and
Daimler-Chrysler. Also, I find most vehicles from Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura
and Nissan/Infiniti to be far more desirable than similar offerings from
Detroit's Big 3. I realize that this is just a matter of personal
preference, but that's the way I feel about it. And I make no apologies to
the fans of domestic vehicles. They can drive what they want and I will do
the same. I know full well what types of vehicles I trust and enjoy driving,
and it just so happens that they are all engineered and manufactured by the
Asian Big 3--either overseas or here in the U.S.A.
I'm the one that has to pay for the vehicle and its maintenance, so I could
care lesser than less what anyone thinks about what I choose to drive.

Ron M.

Re: GM tops reliability and regains market share
 

"D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:xI6dnQSCjZqW8G_fRVn-sw@comcast.com...
> Good point. I guess I should have just said that "Honda and Toyota make
> better products" and left it at that.

Even with the alleged decline in quality of Toyota and Honda vehicles, I
would still trust them over product offerings from GM, Ford and
Daimler-Chrysler. Also, I find most vehicles from Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura
and Nissan/Infiniti to be far more desirable than similar offerings from
Detroit's Big 3. I realize that this is just a matter of personal
preference, but that's the way I feel about it. And I make no apologies to
the fans of domestic vehicles. They can drive what they want and I will do
the same. I know full well what types of vehicles I trust and enjoy driving,
and it just so happens that they are all engineered and manufactured by the
Asian Big 3--either overseas or here in the U.S.A.
I'm the one that has to pay for the vehicle and its maintenance, so I could
care lesser than less what anyone thinks about what I choose to drive.

Ron M.

Re: GM tops reliability and regains market share
 

Don't kid yourself , Japanese companies may be employing American workers .
That's all well and good , but , their profits go straight to Tokyo.


-Dana
"Larry" <ziggy_calif@nospam_yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bvtIe.1723$fJ1.1709@newssvr13.news.prodigy.co m...
>I have to disagree with "better product from Japan"....many Honda's and
>Toyotas are made in the USA or Canada and hold up just as well as their
>Japanese made counterparts. Japanese engineering and preparation seem to
>be superior to the American counterparts. I also take the stance in
>support of buying "American made" that I would rather support the American
>workers who build Pilots, Accords, Civics, etc, than the corporate pockets
>of GM/Ford, etc, as the American factory workers need the money more than
>the suits in Detroit. That said, if I buy a Honda or Toyota built here, I
>am still supporting the American economy and feeding the mouths of families
>who rely on that paycheck.
>
>
> "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:_LWdnYrh2eWiVW3fRVn-tg@comcast.com...
>> It's unions, management, better product from Japan and the reliance on
>> huge temporary profits from gas hogs.
>>
>> "routebeer" <d@aylor.com> wrote in message
>> news:wn3Ie.5365$6D5.1604@newssvr29.news.prodigy.ne t...
>>> "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:P5adnR9ogaZTxHLfRVn-rw@comcast.com...
>>>> The market sets car prices, not the manufacturers. That being said,
>>>> both
>>> the
>>>> new and the used car market prices HON/TOY products to last about
>>>> 150,000
>>>> miles. Sure, many go much longer and still have some residual worth at
>>>> 150,000 miles. At 150,000 miles, they become "might last longer"
>>>> vehicles...but not a great bet. But for GM/FORD the market prices them
>>>> to
>>> go
>>>> only to 100,000 miles before it's worth merely a residual "might last
>>>> longer" value. That's why a loaded CR-V can command $23,000 while you
>>>> can
>>>> find a similar Ford Escape that they can only get $18,000 for (after
>>>> all
>>> the
>>>> rebate shenanigans). The market is recognizing that the Escape
>>>> approaches
>>>> crap at 100,000 miles while the CR-V probably won't approach crap until
>>>> 150,000 miles. The HON/TOY is actually cheaper to own. Here the 'Scape
>>> costs
>>>> 18 cents/mile while the CR-V costs 15 cents/mile. And while most people
>>>> don't own a car from showroom to junkyard, this same pricing pattern
>>>> will
>>>> show up at resale time so, again, even for the 2-3 year owner, the
>>>> HON/TOY
>>>> is cheaper than the GM/FORD to own. (I will say that with the depth of
>>>> the
>>>> GM/FORD rebates today, their cost per mile is approaching that of
>>>> HON/TOY.
>>>> But, of course, cutting prices enough to compensate people for this
>>>> 50,000
>>>> durability gap is killing both GM and FORD in the process).
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know, I think it's the unions that are killing the big three.
>>> It
>>> costs GM and Ford too much to make a piece of here in the States.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: GM tops reliability and regains market share
 

Don't kid yourself , Japanese companies may be employing American workers .
That's all well and good , but , their profits go straight to Tokyo.


-Dana
"Larry" <ziggy_calif@nospam_yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bvtIe.1723$fJ1.1709@newssvr13.news.prodigy.co m...
>I have to disagree with "better product from Japan"....many Honda's and
>Toyotas are made in the USA or Canada and hold up just as well as their
>Japanese made counterparts. Japanese engineering and preparation seem to
>be superior to the American counterparts. I also take the stance in
>support of buying "American made" that I would rather support the American
>workers who build Pilots, Accords, Civics, etc, than the corporate pockets
>of GM/Ford, etc, as the American factory workers need the money more than
>the suits in Detroit. That said, if I buy a Honda or Toyota built here, I
>am still supporting the American economy and feeding the mouths of families
>who rely on that paycheck.
>
>
> "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:_LWdnYrh2eWiVW3fRVn-tg@comcast.com...
>> It's unions, management, better product from Japan and the reliance on
>> huge temporary profits from gas hogs.
>>
>> "routebeer" <d@aylor.com> wrote in message
>> news:wn3Ie.5365$6D5.1604@newssvr29.news.prodigy.ne t...
>>> "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:P5adnR9ogaZTxHLfRVn-rw@comcast.com...
>>>> The market sets car prices, not the manufacturers. That being said,
>>>> both
>>> the
>>>> new and the used car market prices HON/TOY products to last about
>>>> 150,000
>>>> miles. Sure, many go much longer and still have some residual worth at
>>>> 150,000 miles. At 150,000 miles, they become "might last longer"
>>>> vehicles...but not a great bet. But for GM/FORD the market prices them
>>>> to
>>> go
>>>> only to 100,000 miles before it's worth merely a residual "might last
>>>> longer" value. That's why a loaded CR-V can command $23,000 while you
>>>> can
>>>> find a similar Ford Escape that they can only get $18,000 for (after
>>>> all
>>> the
>>>> rebate shenanigans). The market is recognizing that the Escape
>>>> approaches
>>>> crap at 100,000 miles while the CR-V probably won't approach crap until
>>>> 150,000 miles. The HON/TOY is actually cheaper to own. Here the 'Scape
>>> costs
>>>> 18 cents/mile while the CR-V costs 15 cents/mile. And while most people
>>>> don't own a car from showroom to junkyard, this same pricing pattern
>>>> will
>>>> show up at resale time so, again, even for the 2-3 year owner, the
>>>> HON/TOY
>>>> is cheaper than the GM/FORD to own. (I will say that with the depth of
>>>> the
>>>> GM/FORD rebates today, their cost per mile is approaching that of
>>>> HON/TOY.
>>>> But, of course, cutting prices enough to compensate people for this
>>>> 50,000
>>>> durability gap is killing both GM and FORD in the process).
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know, I think it's the unions that are killing the big three.
>>> It
>>> costs GM and Ford too much to make a piece of here in the States.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>