Michael Pardee

"mjc13<REMOVETHIS> @verizon.net>" <"mjc13<REMOVETHIS> wrote in message
news:hqKbi.10690$Nz5.5250@trndny09...
>
>
> Hybrids are best suited for people who do lots of stop & go driving,
> and have to idle in stopped traffic a lot. The Camry hybrid is also good
> for people who want a full-sized sedan with econobox MPG.
>

Hybrids shine where little engine power is used and - theoretically - even
in highway travel by virtue of being able to resize the engine without
affecting responsiveness. A central characteristic of hybridization is the
separation of engine power from performance. A serial hybrid (none in
production yet) is an EV with on-board generation to keep it charged. The
engine power has no effect on performance at all, so the engine can be sized
for better efficiency. That's the promise. Today we have only the promise,
and not much of the goods.

Throttling an internal combustion engine, especially a gas engine, does
truly awful things to engine efficiency. (Throttling a gas engine has the
effect of reducing the charge and of reducing the compression ratio
simultaneously.) In town you would be doing very well to get 10% efficiency
(comparing EV energy consumption to energy value of gasoline used by an
equivalent unconverted vehicle); at least 9 out of every 10 gallons you burn
go to waste. Hybrids *should* gain most by using power generated at higher
engine efficiency to power the car when moving at low speeds.

Unfortunately, the first generation hybrids barely show any advantage in
that respect. Toyota's system can double the typical efficiency under
favorable conditions, raising fuel efficiency from awful to poor. The Civic
hybrid is especially challenged, although it gains a little from downsizing
the engine and using electric power to make up the difference. It just isn't
enough to pay its way. As the controller power capabilities increase and the
battery/motor can be scaled up we should see the real magic, in the manner
of the Dualnote. For now, I understand the disappointment.

Mike

Michael Pardee

"mjc13<REMOVETHIS> @verizon.net>" <"mjc13<REMOVETHIS> wrote in message
news:hqKbi.10690$Nz5.5250@trndny09...
>
>
> Hybrids are best suited for people who do lots of stop & go driving,
> and have to idle in stopped traffic a lot. The Camry hybrid is also good
> for people who want a full-sized sedan with econobox MPG.
>

Hybrids shine where little engine power is used and - theoretically - even
in highway travel by virtue of being able to resize the engine without
affecting responsiveness. A central characteristic of hybridization is the
separation of engine power from performance. A serial hybrid (none in
production yet) is an EV with on-board generation to keep it charged. The
engine power has no effect on performance at all, so the engine can be sized
for better efficiency. That's the promise. Today we have only the promise,
and not much of the goods.

Throttling an internal combustion engine, especially a gas engine, does
truly awful things to engine efficiency. (Throttling a gas engine has the
effect of reducing the charge and of reducing the compression ratio
simultaneously.) In town you would be doing very well to get 10% efficiency
(comparing EV energy consumption to energy value of gasoline used by an
equivalent unconverted vehicle); at least 9 out of every 10 gallons you burn
go to waste. Hybrids *should* gain most by using power generated at higher
engine efficiency to power the car when moving at low speeds.

Unfortunately, the first generation hybrids barely show any advantage in
that respect. Toyota's system can double the typical efficiency under
favorable conditions, raising fuel efficiency from awful to poor. The Civic
hybrid is especially challenged, although it gains a little from downsizing
the engine and using electric power to make up the difference. It just isn't
enough to pay its way. As the controller power capabilities increase and the
battery/motor can be scaled up we should see the real magic, in the manner
of the Dualnote. For now, I understand the disappointment.

Mike

JXStern

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:22:24 -0500, Dan C
<youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote:

>Looking to buy a (new) Accord in the next few weeks. Wondering where the
>"bang for the buck" curve peaks out on the Accord models? Don't want the
>lowest base model, but probably not the ultimate highest one, either.
>Where's the good middle ground, maybe leaning a little towards the high
>end?

LX4 is probably the best deal.

I'm on my second EX4 in a row, gotta have the sunroof and alloy
wheels, doncha know!

I may go leather next time - or the Acura TSX.

They've been offering SE deals with the V6 and no sunroof.

You really can't go wrong, all loaded up it's still 8k less than the
Acura TL and still uses regular gas!

I got the silver, but I keep thinking how nice the blue ones are.


>Second question: What's the thinking on the Civic Hybrid? Decent, or to
>be avoided?

In some trendier neighborhoods you are of course required to own a
hybrid, and if that's your situation, there's nothing wrong with the
Civic!

J.

JXStern

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:22:24 -0500, Dan C
<youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote:

>Looking to buy a (new) Accord in the next few weeks. Wondering where the
>"bang for the buck" curve peaks out on the Accord models? Don't want the
>lowest base model, but probably not the ultimate highest one, either.
>Where's the good middle ground, maybe leaning a little towards the high
>end?

LX4 is probably the best deal.

I'm on my second EX4 in a row, gotta have the sunroof and alloy
wheels, doncha know!

I may go leather next time - or the Acura TSX.

They've been offering SE deals with the V6 and no sunroof.

You really can't go wrong, all loaded up it's still 8k less than the
Acura TL and still uses regular gas!

I got the silver, but I keep thinking how nice the blue ones are.


>Second question: What's the thinking on the Civic Hybrid? Decent, or to
>be avoided?

In some trendier neighborhoods you are of course required to own a
hybrid, and if that's your situation, there's nothing wrong with the
Civic!

J.

JXStern

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:22:24 -0500, Dan C
<youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote:

>Looking to buy a (new) Accord in the next few weeks. Wondering where the
>"bang for the buck" curve peaks out on the Accord models? Don't want the
>lowest base model, but probably not the ultimate highest one, either.
>Where's the good middle ground, maybe leaning a little towards the high
>end?

LX4 is probably the best deal.

I'm on my second EX4 in a row, gotta have the sunroof and alloy
wheels, doncha know!

I may go leather next time - or the Acura TSX.

They've been offering SE deals with the V6 and no sunroof.

You really can't go wrong, all loaded up it's still 8k less than the
Acura TL and still uses regular gas!

I got the silver, but I keep thinking how nice the blue ones are.


>Second question: What's the thinking on the Civic Hybrid? Decent, or to
>be avoided?

In some trendier neighborhoods you are of course required to own a
hybrid, and if that's your situation, there's nothing wrong with the
Civic!

J.

justbob30

Speaking as someone who has a Civic Hybird, I LOVE THIS CAR, it gets better
mileage, granted, it costs a bit more, not really much compared to the EX
auto which it is closest to.

You have to drive it to understand the true value, this car is smooth, I
don't mean Lincoln dead ride, it doesn't jerk and lurch through the throttle
process, no shifting, just smooth acceleration and deaccelration, no jerking
about as traffic speeds up & slows down....then there is the tourque, when
you need it, instant I do no have to wind up the engine to get it and there
is lots of it, v-6 amounts the car is quite zippy if that is what you want.

The gas mileage is very good, I drove a standard Civic for a couple of weeks
while my Accord was in the shop and got 25 mpg with the way I drive, I am on
my 2nd tank of gas (I have used 14 gals in just over a month) and am
currently at 46, I am mostly city driving. But, here is the real reason,
the TRENDY neighborhood I live in, planet earth, appriceates the small
break.


"Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
newsan.2007.06.12.20.22.24.401422@lan.invalid...
> Hello all,
>
> Looking to buy a (new) Accord in the next few weeks. Wondering where the
> "bang for the buck" curve peaks out on the Accord models? Don't want the
> lowest base model, but probably not the ultimate highest one, either.
> Where's the good middle ground, maybe leaning a little towards the high
> end?
>
> Second question: What's the thinking on the Civic Hybrid? Decent, or to
> be avoided?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> --
> "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
>

justbob30

Speaking as someone who has a Civic Hybird, I LOVE THIS CAR, it gets better
mileage, granted, it costs a bit more, not really much compared to the EX
auto which it is closest to.

You have to drive it to understand the true value, this car is smooth, I
don't mean Lincoln dead ride, it doesn't jerk and lurch through the throttle
process, no shifting, just smooth acceleration and deaccelration, no jerking
about as traffic speeds up & slows down....then there is the tourque, when
you need it, instant I do no have to wind up the engine to get it and there
is lots of it, v-6 amounts the car is quite zippy if that is what you want.

The gas mileage is very good, I drove a standard Civic for a couple of weeks
while my Accord was in the shop and got 25 mpg with the way I drive, I am on
my 2nd tank of gas (I have used 14 gals in just over a month) and am
currently at 46, I am mostly city driving. But, here is the real reason,
the TRENDY neighborhood I live in, planet earth, appriceates the small
break.


"Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
newsan.2007.06.12.20.22.24.401422@lan.invalid...
> Hello all,
>
> Looking to buy a (new) Accord in the next few weeks. Wondering where the
> "bang for the buck" curve peaks out on the Accord models? Don't want the
> lowest base model, but probably not the ultimate highest one, either.
> Where's the good middle ground, maybe leaning a little towards the high
> end?
>
> Second question: What's the thinking on the Civic Hybrid? Decent, or to
> be avoided?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> --
> "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
>

justbob30

Speaking as someone who has a Civic Hybird, I LOVE THIS CAR, it gets better
mileage, granted, it costs a bit more, not really much compared to the EX
auto which it is closest to.

You have to drive it to understand the true value, this car is smooth, I
don't mean Lincoln dead ride, it doesn't jerk and lurch through the throttle
process, no shifting, just smooth acceleration and deaccelration, no jerking
about as traffic speeds up & slows down....then there is the tourque, when
you need it, instant I do no have to wind up the engine to get it and there
is lots of it, v-6 amounts the car is quite zippy if that is what you want.

The gas mileage is very good, I drove a standard Civic for a couple of weeks
while my Accord was in the shop and got 25 mpg with the way I drive, I am on
my 2nd tank of gas (I have used 14 gals in just over a month) and am
currently at 46, I am mostly city driving. But, here is the real reason,
the TRENDY neighborhood I live in, planet earth, appriceates the small
break.


"Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
newsan.2007.06.12.20.22.24.401422@lan.invalid...
> Hello all,
>
> Looking to buy a (new) Accord in the next few weeks. Wondering where the
> "bang for the buck" curve peaks out on the Accord models? Don't want the
> lowest base model, but probably not the ultimate highest one, either.
> Where's the good middle ground, maybe leaning a little towards the high
> end?
>
> Second question: What's the thinking on the Civic Hybrid? Decent, or to
> be avoided?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> --
> "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
>

JXStern

On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 07:41:33 -0700, "justbob30" <no@thank.you> wrote:

>Speaking as someone who has a Civic Hybird, I LOVE THIS CAR, it gets better
>mileage, granted, it costs a bit more, not really much compared to the EX
>auto which it is closest to.
>
>You have to drive it to understand the true value, this car is smooth, I
>don't mean Lincoln dead ride, it doesn't jerk and lurch through the throttle
>process, no shifting, just smooth acceleration and deaccelration, no jerking
>about as traffic speeds up & slows down....then there is the tourque, when
>you need it, instant I do no have to wind up the engine to get it and there
>is lots of it, v-6 amounts the car is quite zippy if that is what you want.

Well, actually, I never thought to try the Honda hybrids looking for
an improved overall experience.

>The gas mileage is very good, I drove a standard Civic for a couple of weeks
>while my Accord was in the shop and got 25 mpg with the way I drive, I am on
>my 2nd tank of gas (I have used 14 gals in just over a month) and am
>currently at 46, I am mostly city driving. But, here is the real reason,
>the TRENDY neighborhood I live in, planet earth, appriceates the small
>break.

Just 25mpg in a standard Civic? Must be very nasty city driving, or
you're playing boy racer between red lights, but the city scenario is
where the hybrids make somewhat more sense - though probably the Prius
is better that way, it stays all-electric longer, doesn't it?

Hey, my neighborhood just had Barack Obama drop by long enough to have
his picture taken with him standing in front of a biodiesel pump.
Hmm, wonder if that's online:

article no pic
http://www.americanchronicle.com/art...rticleID=29503

Well, it *mentions* the gas station!

J.

JXStern

On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 07:41:33 -0700, "justbob30" <no@thank.you> wrote:

>Speaking as someone who has a Civic Hybird, I LOVE THIS CAR, it gets better
>mileage, granted, it costs a bit more, not really much compared to the EX
>auto which it is closest to.
>
>You have to drive it to understand the true value, this car is smooth, I
>don't mean Lincoln dead ride, it doesn't jerk and lurch through the throttle
>process, no shifting, just smooth acceleration and deaccelration, no jerking
>about as traffic speeds up & slows down....then there is the tourque, when
>you need it, instant I do no have to wind up the engine to get it and there
>is lots of it, v-6 amounts the car is quite zippy if that is what you want.

Well, actually, I never thought to try the Honda hybrids looking for
an improved overall experience.

>The gas mileage is very good, I drove a standard Civic for a couple of weeks
>while my Accord was in the shop and got 25 mpg with the way I drive, I am on
>my 2nd tank of gas (I have used 14 gals in just over a month) and am
>currently at 46, I am mostly city driving. But, here is the real reason,
>the TRENDY neighborhood I live in, planet earth, appriceates the small
>break.

Just 25mpg in a standard Civic? Must be very nasty city driving, or
you're playing boy racer between red lights, but the city scenario is
where the hybrids make somewhat more sense - though probably the Prius
is better that way, it stays all-electric longer, doesn't it?

Hey, my neighborhood just had Barack Obama drop by long enough to have
his picture taken with him standing in front of a biodiesel pump.
Hmm, wonder if that's online:

article no pic
http://www.americanchronicle.com/art...rticleID=29503

Well, it *mentions* the gas station!

J.

JXStern

On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 07:41:33 -0700, "justbob30" <no@thank.you> wrote:

>Speaking as someone who has a Civic Hybird, I LOVE THIS CAR, it gets better
>mileage, granted, it costs a bit more, not really much compared to the EX
>auto which it is closest to.
>
>You have to drive it to understand the true value, this car is smooth, I
>don't mean Lincoln dead ride, it doesn't jerk and lurch through the throttle
>process, no shifting, just smooth acceleration and deaccelration, no jerking
>about as traffic speeds up & slows down....then there is the tourque, when
>you need it, instant I do no have to wind up the engine to get it and there
>is lots of it, v-6 amounts the car is quite zippy if that is what you want.

Well, actually, I never thought to try the Honda hybrids looking for
an improved overall experience.

>The gas mileage is very good, I drove a standard Civic for a couple of weeks
>while my Accord was in the shop and got 25 mpg with the way I drive, I am on
>my 2nd tank of gas (I have used 14 gals in just over a month) and am
>currently at 46, I am mostly city driving. But, here is the real reason,
>the TRENDY neighborhood I live in, planet earth, appriceates the small
>break.

Just 25mpg in a standard Civic? Must be very nasty city driving, or
you're playing boy racer between red lights, but the city scenario is
where the hybrids make somewhat more sense - though probably the Prius
is better that way, it stays all-electric longer, doesn't it?

Hey, my neighborhood just had Barack Obama drop by long enough to have
his picture taken with him standing in front of a biodiesel pump.
Hmm, wonder if that's online:

article no pic
http://www.americanchronicle.com/art...rticleID=29503

Well, it *mentions* the gas station!

J.

justbob30

I have a friend with a Prius, it is a nice car....It does start in electric,
however when she drives it, well, it doesn't :[) she only gets about 35mpg
but she has fun.
The Civic goes into an electric state while underway, 15-40ish with a light
load you will see the meter go up to 100mpg & the assist indicator come on,
the gas engine drops to an idle....overall, based on greenhybrid.com, the
Prius gets about 47 mpg & Civic 46 so....name your poison.
Yes, this area has a lot of stop & go, under 30, no left turn lanes, hills &
LOTS of construction....it frequently takes me 30 minutes to drive 6 miles
home & there is no freeway between work & home.
Some of my considerations for the Civic were:
1. The dealer gave me $1,000 off list & gave me mud flaps & a couple of
other dealer installed "extras" as well as $1,500 more for my 96 Accord than
book.
2. The Civic does not look different than any other, not cool if your ego
wants everyone to notice you but a good thing for jerks who want to run you
off the road for taking up "their" road with an electric (therefore slow &
gutless logic) car or boy racers.
3. There are 3 Toyota dealers in my area, they all wanted $29,000 for the
$24,000 Prius, but with Toyota's special offer that is on right now, they
would have let me have it (hmm, interesting pun) for $27,000.



"JXStern" <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net> wrote in message
news:dvc5735ltl3g9d5rnrkbppqv4p5g4pe2su@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 07:41:33 -0700, "justbob30" <no@thank.you> wrote:
>
>>Speaking as someone who has a Civic Hybird, I LOVE THIS CAR, it gets
>>better
>>mileage, granted, it costs a bit more, not really much compared to the EX
>>auto which it is closest to.
>>
>>You have to drive it to understand the true value, this car is smooth, I
>>don't mean Lincoln dead ride, it doesn't jerk and lurch through the
>>throttle
>>process, no shifting, just smooth acceleration and deaccelration, no
>>jerking
>>about as traffic speeds up & slows down....then there is the tourque, when
>>you need it, instant I do no have to wind up the engine to get it and
>>there
>>is lots of it, v-6 amounts the car is quite zippy if that is what you
>>want.
>
> Well, actually, I never thought to try the Honda hybrids looking for
> an improved overall experience.
>
>>The gas mileage is very good, I drove a standard Civic for a couple of
>>weeks
>>while my Accord was in the shop and got 25 mpg with the way I drive, I am
>>on
>>my 2nd tank of gas (I have used 14 gals in just over a month) and am
>>currently at 46, I am mostly city driving. But, here is the real reason,
>>the TRENDY neighborhood I live in, planet earth, appriceates the small
>>break.
>
> Just 25mpg in a standard Civic? Must be very nasty city driving, or
> you're playing boy racer between red lights, but the city scenario is
> where the hybrids make somewhat more sense - though probably the Prius
> is better that way, it stays all-electric longer, doesn't it?
>
> Hey, my neighborhood just had Barack Obama drop by long enough to have
> his picture taken with him standing in front of a biodiesel pump.
> Hmm, wonder if that's online:
>
> article no pic
> http://www.americanchronicle.com/art...rticleID=29503
>
> Well, it *mentions* the gas station!
>
> J.
>

justbob30

I have a friend with a Prius, it is a nice car....It does start in electric,
however when she drives it, well, it doesn't :[) she only gets about 35mpg
but she has fun.
The Civic goes into an electric state while underway, 15-40ish with a light
load you will see the meter go up to 100mpg & the assist indicator come on,
the gas engine drops to an idle....overall, based on greenhybrid.com, the
Prius gets about 47 mpg & Civic 46 so....name your poison.
Yes, this area has a lot of stop & go, under 30, no left turn lanes, hills &
LOTS of construction....it frequently takes me 30 minutes to drive 6 miles
home & there is no freeway between work & home.
Some of my considerations for the Civic were:
1. The dealer gave me $1,000 off list & gave me mud flaps & a couple of
other dealer installed "extras" as well as $1,500 more for my 96 Accord than
book.
2. The Civic does not look different than any other, not cool if your ego
wants everyone to notice you but a good thing for jerks who want to run you
off the road for taking up "their" road with an electric (therefore slow &
gutless logic) car or boy racers.
3. There are 3 Toyota dealers in my area, they all wanted $29,000 for the
$24,000 Prius, but with Toyota's special offer that is on right now, they
would have let me have it (hmm, interesting pun) for $27,000.



"JXStern" <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net> wrote in message
news:dvc5735ltl3g9d5rnrkbppqv4p5g4pe2su@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 07:41:33 -0700, "justbob30" <no@thank.you> wrote:
>
>>Speaking as someone who has a Civic Hybird, I LOVE THIS CAR, it gets
>>better
>>mileage, granted, it costs a bit more, not really much compared to the EX
>>auto which it is closest to.
>>
>>You have to drive it to understand the true value, this car is smooth, I
>>don't mean Lincoln dead ride, it doesn't jerk and lurch through the
>>throttle
>>process, no shifting, just smooth acceleration and deaccelration, no
>>jerking
>>about as traffic speeds up & slows down....then there is the tourque, when
>>you need it, instant I do no have to wind up the engine to get it and
>>there
>>is lots of it, v-6 amounts the car is quite zippy if that is what you
>>want.
>
> Well, actually, I never thought to try the Honda hybrids looking for
> an improved overall experience.
>
>>The gas mileage is very good, I drove a standard Civic for a couple of
>>weeks
>>while my Accord was in the shop and got 25 mpg with the way I drive, I am
>>on
>>my 2nd tank of gas (I have used 14 gals in just over a month) and am
>>currently at 46, I am mostly city driving. But, here is the real reason,
>>the TRENDY neighborhood I live in, planet earth, appriceates the small
>>break.
>
> Just 25mpg in a standard Civic? Must be very nasty city driving, or
> you're playing boy racer between red lights, but the city scenario is
> where the hybrids make somewhat more sense - though probably the Prius
> is better that way, it stays all-electric longer, doesn't it?
>
> Hey, my neighborhood just had Barack Obama drop by long enough to have
> his picture taken with him standing in front of a biodiesel pump.
> Hmm, wonder if that's online:
>
> article no pic
> http://www.americanchronicle.com/art...rticleID=29503
>
> Well, it *mentions* the gas station!
>
> J.
>

justbob30

I have a friend with a Prius, it is a nice car....It does start in electric,
however when she drives it, well, it doesn't :[) she only gets about 35mpg
but she has fun.
The Civic goes into an electric state while underway, 15-40ish with a light
load you will see the meter go up to 100mpg & the assist indicator come on,
the gas engine drops to an idle....overall, based on greenhybrid.com, the
Prius gets about 47 mpg & Civic 46 so....name your poison.
Yes, this area has a lot of stop & go, under 30, no left turn lanes, hills &
LOTS of construction....it frequently takes me 30 minutes to drive 6 miles
home & there is no freeway between work & home.
Some of my considerations for the Civic were:
1. The dealer gave me $1,000 off list & gave me mud flaps & a couple of
other dealer installed "extras" as well as $1,500 more for my 96 Accord than
book.
2. The Civic does not look different than any other, not cool if your ego
wants everyone to notice you but a good thing for jerks who want to run you
off the road for taking up "their" road with an electric (therefore slow &
gutless logic) car or boy racers.
3. There are 3 Toyota dealers in my area, they all wanted $29,000 for the
$24,000 Prius, but with Toyota's special offer that is on right now, they
would have let me have it (hmm, interesting pun) for $27,000.



"JXStern" <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net> wrote in message
news:dvc5735ltl3g9d5rnrkbppqv4p5g4pe2su@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 07:41:33 -0700, "justbob30" <no@thank.you> wrote:
>
>>Speaking as someone who has a Civic Hybird, I LOVE THIS CAR, it gets
>>better
>>mileage, granted, it costs a bit more, not really much compared to the EX
>>auto which it is closest to.
>>
>>You have to drive it to understand the true value, this car is smooth, I
>>don't mean Lincoln dead ride, it doesn't jerk and lurch through the
>>throttle
>>process, no shifting, just smooth acceleration and deaccelration, no
>>jerking
>>about as traffic speeds up & slows down....then there is the tourque, when
>>you need it, instant I do no have to wind up the engine to get it and
>>there
>>is lots of it, v-6 amounts the car is quite zippy if that is what you
>>want.
>
> Well, actually, I never thought to try the Honda hybrids looking for
> an improved overall experience.
>
>>The gas mileage is very good, I drove a standard Civic for a couple of
>>weeks
>>while my Accord was in the shop and got 25 mpg with the way I drive, I am
>>on
>>my 2nd tank of gas (I have used 14 gals in just over a month) and am
>>currently at 46, I am mostly city driving. But, here is the real reason,
>>the TRENDY neighborhood I live in, planet earth, appriceates the small
>>break.
>
> Just 25mpg in a standard Civic? Must be very nasty city driving, or
> you're playing boy racer between red lights, but the city scenario is
> where the hybrids make somewhat more sense - though probably the Prius
> is better that way, it stays all-electric longer, doesn't it?
>
> Hey, my neighborhood just had Barack Obama drop by long enough to have
> his picture taken with him standing in front of a biodiesel pump.
> Hmm, wonder if that's online:
>
> article no pic
> http://www.americanchronicle.com/art...rticleID=29503
>
> Well, it *mentions* the gas station!
>
> J.
>

justbob30

Oh yeah, there was one other factor, I wanted a Dark Blue car but not a grey
interior, the Hybrid comes in a dark blue (metalic pearl) with a dark blue &
Tan interior, that is the only way you can get this combo.

"justbob30" <no@thank.you> wrote in message
news:wbednW0GyZ63ru7bnZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>I have a friend with a Prius, it is a nice car....It does start in
>electric, however when she drives it, well, it doesn't :[) she only gets
>about 35mpg but she has fun.
> The Civic goes into an electric state while underway, 15-40ish with a
> light load you will see the meter go up to 100mpg & the assist indicator
> come on, the gas engine drops to an idle....overall, based on
> greenhybrid.com, the Prius gets about 47 mpg & Civic 46 so....name your
> poison.
> Yes, this area has a lot of stop & go, under 30, no left turn lanes, hills
> & LOTS of construction....it frequently takes me 30 minutes to drive 6
> miles home & there is no freeway between work & home.
> Some of my considerations for the Civic were:
> 1. The dealer gave me $1,000 off list & gave me mud flaps & a couple of
> other dealer installed "extras" as well as $1,500 more for my 96 Accord
> than book.
> 2. The Civic does not look different than any other, not cool if your ego
> wants everyone to notice you but a good thing for jerks who want to run
> you off the road for taking up "their" road with an electric (therefore
> slow & gutless logic) car or boy racers.
> 3. There are 3 Toyota dealers in my area, they all wanted $29,000 for the
> $24,000 Prius, but with Toyota's special offer that is on right now, they
> would have let me have it (hmm, interesting pun) for $27,000.
>
>
>
> "JXStern" <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net> wrote in message
> news:dvc5735ltl3g9d5rnrkbppqv4p5g4pe2su@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 07:41:33 -0700, "justbob30" <no@thank.you> wrote:
>>
>>>Speaking as someone who has a Civic Hybird, I LOVE THIS CAR, it gets
>>>better
>>>mileage, granted, it costs a bit more, not really much compared to the EX
>>>auto which it is closest to.
>>>
>>>You have to drive it to understand the true value, this car is smooth, I
>>>don't mean Lincoln dead ride, it doesn't jerk and lurch through the
>>>throttle
>>>process, no shifting, just smooth acceleration and deaccelration, no
>>>jerking
>>>about as traffic speeds up & slows down....then there is the tourque,
>>>when
>>>you need it, instant I do no have to wind up the engine to get it and
>>>there
>>>is lots of it, v-6 amounts the car is quite zippy if that is what you
>>>want.
>>
>> Well, actually, I never thought to try the Honda hybrids looking for
>> an improved overall experience.
>>
>>>The gas mileage is very good, I drove a standard Civic for a couple of
>>>weeks
>>>while my Accord was in the shop and got 25 mpg with the way I drive, I am
>>>on
>>>my 2nd tank of gas (I have used 14 gals in just over a month) and am
>>>currently at 46, I am mostly city driving. But, here is the real reason,
>>>the TRENDY neighborhood I live in, planet earth, appriceates the small
>>>break.
>>
>> Just 25mpg in a standard Civic? Must be very nasty city driving, or
>> you're playing boy racer between red lights, but the city scenario is
>> where the hybrids make somewhat more sense - though probably the Prius
>> is better that way, it stays all-electric longer, doesn't it?
>>
>> Hey, my neighborhood just had Barack Obama drop by long enough to have
>> his picture taken with him standing in front of a biodiesel pump.
>> Hmm, wonder if that's online:
>>
>> article no pic
>> http://www.americanchronicle.com/art...rticleID=29503
>>
>> Well, it *mentions* the gas station!
>>
>> J.
>>
>