K&N Filters
05-04-2006, 10:10 PM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
K&N Filters
A short while back I posted a statement to the effect that my use of K&N
filters boosted mileage and performance in my two new Honda cars (civic
hybrid and Element both 05). After putting about 5000 miles on the
Element's filter, I took it out for an inspection. It was filthy!!! This I
imagine is what an air filter is supposed to do. As for those of you who so
kindly responded to my original post of the same topic, I'd like to thank
you. You've more than ever convinced my of the efficacy of this filter
system.and its claims for increasing mileage and performance. By the way,
my Hybrid is now getting over 49mpg in mixed city/highway driving. I
imagine it will improve even more on long highway trips. Again thanks all
for your contributions.
filters boosted mileage and performance in my two new Honda cars (civic
hybrid and Element both 05). After putting about 5000 miles on the
Element's filter, I took it out for an inspection. It was filthy!!! This I
imagine is what an air filter is supposed to do. As for those of you who so
kindly responded to my original post of the same topic, I'd like to thank
you. You've more than ever convinced my of the efficacy of this filter
system.and its claims for increasing mileage and performance. By the way,
my Hybrid is now getting over 49mpg in mixed city/highway driving. I
imagine it will improve even more on long highway trips. Again thanks all
for your contributions.
05-04-2006, 11:24 PM
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: K&N Filters
On Fri, 05 May 2006 02:10:20 GMT, "Theodore Kaplan"
<tkaplan@earthlink.net> wrote:
>A short while back I posted a statement to the effect that my use of K&N
>filters boosted mileage and performance in my two new Honda cars (civic
>hybrid and Element both 05). After putting about 5000 miles on the
>Element's filter, I took it out for an inspection. It was filthy!!! This I
>imagine is what an air filter is supposed to do. As for those of you who so
>kindly responded to my original post of the same topic, I'd like to thank
>you. You've more than ever convinced my of the efficacy of this filter
>system.and its claims for increasing mileage and performance. By the way,
>my Hybrid is now getting over 49mpg in mixed city/highway driving. I
>imagine it will improve even more on long highway trips. Again thanks all
>for your contributions.
>
ok, look at it like this. See your filter and a regular one. look at
the different in hole sizes. also look at the volume of your filter
that is filter, and that is gaps. look again at the filth you've
collected on the parts that filter. If the filter is 50% gap by
vcolume, that at best case, at LEAST as much dirt that has been
trapped by the filter has gone into the engine. on a regular filter,
its less than 0.1% air by volume. Of course, that figure is best case,
you're neglecting the air currents, which mean that the
fastest-flowing air (ie the most undesturbed bits, or the bits that
don't touch the filter) can carry the most. a 200mph tornado can carry
objects a lot more than 20x heavier than a 10mph wind. Also, your
filter would, for peak efficiency stop every particle that touches it,
and doesn't have a bit of dirt hit another piece of dirt already
trapped and bounce in. Was the filter equally dirty throughout, or
were areas like the outskirts, or a certain side dirtier? (not sure
what K+N you've got, when I think of them I think of the ones we used
in the late 80s, that wasn't ore than a loose weave coasted in oil,
and which we cleaned every 200-300 miles. wasn't that we were gong
anywhere particularly dirty, just that after that milage it got caked
up so much it worked less efficintly as a filter,.
Again, remember, you're getting better milage because you're getting
better airflow in, you're getting better airflow in because the flow
rate is better, because its less obstructed. Its the air hitting the
obstructions that cleans it, so you are in effect boasting about how
much moire dirt you're letting in.
most people are amazed at how much dirt thre is. just another thing to
think of, - fiberos filters get dirty, they get blocked up, and
actually trap MORe dirt, at the expense of performance. wet-surface
filters lose filtering performance.
again, a lot of this is moot if its not wet-type filters any more, but
i doubt k+n have changed that much
<tkaplan@earthlink.net> wrote:
>A short while back I posted a statement to the effect that my use of K&N
>filters boosted mileage and performance in my two new Honda cars (civic
>hybrid and Element both 05). After putting about 5000 miles on the
>Element's filter, I took it out for an inspection. It was filthy!!! This I
>imagine is what an air filter is supposed to do. As for those of you who so
>kindly responded to my original post of the same topic, I'd like to thank
>you. You've more than ever convinced my of the efficacy of this filter
>system.and its claims for increasing mileage and performance. By the way,
>my Hybrid is now getting over 49mpg in mixed city/highway driving. I
>imagine it will improve even more on long highway trips. Again thanks all
>for your contributions.
>
ok, look at it like this. See your filter and a regular one. look at
the different in hole sizes. also look at the volume of your filter
that is filter, and that is gaps. look again at the filth you've
collected on the parts that filter. If the filter is 50% gap by
vcolume, that at best case, at LEAST as much dirt that has been
trapped by the filter has gone into the engine. on a regular filter,
its less than 0.1% air by volume. Of course, that figure is best case,
you're neglecting the air currents, which mean that the
fastest-flowing air (ie the most undesturbed bits, or the bits that
don't touch the filter) can carry the most. a 200mph tornado can carry
objects a lot more than 20x heavier than a 10mph wind. Also, your
filter would, for peak efficiency stop every particle that touches it,
and doesn't have a bit of dirt hit another piece of dirt already
trapped and bounce in. Was the filter equally dirty throughout, or
were areas like the outskirts, or a certain side dirtier? (not sure
what K+N you've got, when I think of them I think of the ones we used
in the late 80s, that wasn't ore than a loose weave coasted in oil,
and which we cleaned every 200-300 miles. wasn't that we were gong
anywhere particularly dirty, just that after that milage it got caked
up so much it worked less efficintly as a filter,.
Again, remember, you're getting better milage because you're getting
better airflow in, you're getting better airflow in because the flow
rate is better, because its less obstructed. Its the air hitting the
obstructions that cleans it, so you are in effect boasting about how
much moire dirt you're letting in.
most people are amazed at how much dirt thre is. just another thing to
think of, - fiberos filters get dirty, they get blocked up, and
actually trap MORe dirt, at the expense of performance. wet-surface
filters lose filtering performance.
again, a lot of this is moot if its not wet-type filters any more, but
i doubt k+n have changed that much
05-04-2006, 11:24 PM
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: K&N Filters
On Fri, 05 May 2006 02:10:20 GMT, "Theodore Kaplan"
<tkaplan@earthlink.net> wrote:
>A short while back I posted a statement to the effect that my use of K&N
>filters boosted mileage and performance in my two new Honda cars (civic
>hybrid and Element both 05). After putting about 5000 miles on the
>Element's filter, I took it out for an inspection. It was filthy!!! This I
>imagine is what an air filter is supposed to do. As for those of you who so
>kindly responded to my original post of the same topic, I'd like to thank
>you. You've more than ever convinced my of the efficacy of this filter
>system.and its claims for increasing mileage and performance. By the way,
>my Hybrid is now getting over 49mpg in mixed city/highway driving. I
>imagine it will improve even more on long highway trips. Again thanks all
>for your contributions.
>
ok, look at it like this. See your filter and a regular one. look at
the different in hole sizes. also look at the volume of your filter
that is filter, and that is gaps. look again at the filth you've
collected on the parts that filter. If the filter is 50% gap by
vcolume, that at best case, at LEAST as much dirt that has been
trapped by the filter has gone into the engine. on a regular filter,
its less than 0.1% air by volume. Of course, that figure is best case,
you're neglecting the air currents, which mean that the
fastest-flowing air (ie the most undesturbed bits, or the bits that
don't touch the filter) can carry the most. a 200mph tornado can carry
objects a lot more than 20x heavier than a 10mph wind. Also, your
filter would, for peak efficiency stop every particle that touches it,
and doesn't have a bit of dirt hit another piece of dirt already
trapped and bounce in. Was the filter equally dirty throughout, or
were areas like the outskirts, or a certain side dirtier? (not sure
what K+N you've got, when I think of them I think of the ones we used
in the late 80s, that wasn't ore than a loose weave coasted in oil,
and which we cleaned every 200-300 miles. wasn't that we were gong
anywhere particularly dirty, just that after that milage it got caked
up so much it worked less efficintly as a filter,.
Again, remember, you're getting better milage because you're getting
better airflow in, you're getting better airflow in because the flow
rate is better, because its less obstructed. Its the air hitting the
obstructions that cleans it, so you are in effect boasting about how
much moire dirt you're letting in.
most people are amazed at how much dirt thre is. just another thing to
think of, - fiberos filters get dirty, they get blocked up, and
actually trap MORe dirt, at the expense of performance. wet-surface
filters lose filtering performance.
again, a lot of this is moot if its not wet-type filters any more, but
i doubt k+n have changed that much
<tkaplan@earthlink.net> wrote:
>A short while back I posted a statement to the effect that my use of K&N
>filters boosted mileage and performance in my two new Honda cars (civic
>hybrid and Element both 05). After putting about 5000 miles on the
>Element's filter, I took it out for an inspection. It was filthy!!! This I
>imagine is what an air filter is supposed to do. As for those of you who so
>kindly responded to my original post of the same topic, I'd like to thank
>you. You've more than ever convinced my of the efficacy of this filter
>system.and its claims for increasing mileage and performance. By the way,
>my Hybrid is now getting over 49mpg in mixed city/highway driving. I
>imagine it will improve even more on long highway trips. Again thanks all
>for your contributions.
>
ok, look at it like this. See your filter and a regular one. look at
the different in hole sizes. also look at the volume of your filter
that is filter, and that is gaps. look again at the filth you've
collected on the parts that filter. If the filter is 50% gap by
vcolume, that at best case, at LEAST as much dirt that has been
trapped by the filter has gone into the engine. on a regular filter,
its less than 0.1% air by volume. Of course, that figure is best case,
you're neglecting the air currents, which mean that the
fastest-flowing air (ie the most undesturbed bits, or the bits that
don't touch the filter) can carry the most. a 200mph tornado can carry
objects a lot more than 20x heavier than a 10mph wind. Also, your
filter would, for peak efficiency stop every particle that touches it,
and doesn't have a bit of dirt hit another piece of dirt already
trapped and bounce in. Was the filter equally dirty throughout, or
were areas like the outskirts, or a certain side dirtier? (not sure
what K+N you've got, when I think of them I think of the ones we used
in the late 80s, that wasn't ore than a loose weave coasted in oil,
and which we cleaned every 200-300 miles. wasn't that we were gong
anywhere particularly dirty, just that after that milage it got caked
up so much it worked less efficintly as a filter,.
Again, remember, you're getting better milage because you're getting
better airflow in, you're getting better airflow in because the flow
rate is better, because its less obstructed. Its the air hitting the
obstructions that cleans it, so you are in effect boasting about how
much moire dirt you're letting in.
most people are amazed at how much dirt thre is. just another thing to
think of, - fiberos filters get dirty, they get blocked up, and
actually trap MORe dirt, at the expense of performance. wet-surface
filters lose filtering performance.
again, a lot of this is moot if its not wet-type filters any more, but
i doubt k+n have changed that much
05-04-2006, 11:34 PM
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: K&N Filters
Umm probably not true as far as mileage increase on the highway for a hybrid.
A hybrid gets better mileage due to the battery power assist from a stop. and
charges using the regenerative braking system. On the highway, you don't do
much braking or starting from a stop. The only thing that will get your
better mileage would be a lower displacement engine, though even that is
debatable as a smaller engine may bog down if underpowered, causing lower
mileage.
Hybrids are designed for city driving. If you do a ton of highway driving,
the technology you need is the VCM that comes with the new Oddy, shuts down 3
out of 6 cylinders when RPMs are unchanged for a certain period of time.
Unfortunately, they don't offer this on 4-cylinders.
As far as K&N filters, posting something about these on this group you are
just waiting to get flamed. Looks like you know that.
I for one have had a K&N drop in filtercharger on my 98 civic since 80000kms.
I am now at 250000kms, same filter (I have cleaned it on at least 4 or 5
occasions).
I did a compression test last month, and came back with 190lbs in all 4
cylinders (ok I had 210lbs in Cyl 4, probably some carbon buildup. I been
babying the engine lately to save gas). I do about 60hwy/40city. I also do
alot of driving on gravel roads, as I spend a lot of time in rural Manitoba
Canada. So in my case, the theory that K&Ns don't filter particulates of a
certain size and causes a compression decrease doesn't seem to hold water....
I recommend K&Ns simply because they make financial sense. I can't say I
noticed a mileage gain. The performance gain is minor, and probably not real.
... the filter causes an exciting whistle when I wind the engine up to 6500-
7000 RPMs, sounds like a turbo!
t
Theodore Kaplan wrote:
>A short while back I posted a statement to the effect that my use of K&N
>filters boosted mileage and performance in my two new Honda cars (civic
>hybrid and Element both 05). After putting about 5000 miles on the
>Element's filter, I took it out for an inspection. It was filthy!!! This I
>imagine is what an air filter is supposed to do. As for those of you who so
>kindly responded to my original post of the same topic, I'd like to thank
>you. You've more than ever convinced my of the efficacy of this filter
>system.and its claims for increasing mileage and performance. By the way,
>my Hybrid is now getting over 49mpg in mixed city/highway driving. I
>imagine it will improve even more on long highway trips. Again thanks all
>for your contributions.
--
Message posted via http://www.carkb.com
A hybrid gets better mileage due to the battery power assist from a stop. and
charges using the regenerative braking system. On the highway, you don't do
much braking or starting from a stop. The only thing that will get your
better mileage would be a lower displacement engine, though even that is
debatable as a smaller engine may bog down if underpowered, causing lower
mileage.
Hybrids are designed for city driving. If you do a ton of highway driving,
the technology you need is the VCM that comes with the new Oddy, shuts down 3
out of 6 cylinders when RPMs are unchanged for a certain period of time.
Unfortunately, they don't offer this on 4-cylinders.
As far as K&N filters, posting something about these on this group you are
just waiting to get flamed. Looks like you know that.
I for one have had a K&N drop in filtercharger on my 98 civic since 80000kms.
I am now at 250000kms, same filter (I have cleaned it on at least 4 or 5
occasions).
I did a compression test last month, and came back with 190lbs in all 4
cylinders (ok I had 210lbs in Cyl 4, probably some carbon buildup. I been
babying the engine lately to save gas). I do about 60hwy/40city. I also do
alot of driving on gravel roads, as I spend a lot of time in rural Manitoba
Canada. So in my case, the theory that K&Ns don't filter particulates of a
certain size and causes a compression decrease doesn't seem to hold water....
I recommend K&Ns simply because they make financial sense. I can't say I
noticed a mileage gain. The performance gain is minor, and probably not real.
... the filter causes an exciting whistle when I wind the engine up to 6500-
7000 RPMs, sounds like a turbo!
t
Theodore Kaplan wrote:
>A short while back I posted a statement to the effect that my use of K&N
>filters boosted mileage and performance in my two new Honda cars (civic
>hybrid and Element both 05). After putting about 5000 miles on the
>Element's filter, I took it out for an inspection. It was filthy!!! This I
>imagine is what an air filter is supposed to do. As for those of you who so
>kindly responded to my original post of the same topic, I'd like to thank
>you. You've more than ever convinced my of the efficacy of this filter
>system.and its claims for increasing mileage and performance. By the way,
>my Hybrid is now getting over 49mpg in mixed city/highway driving. I
>imagine it will improve even more on long highway trips. Again thanks all
>for your contributions.
--
Message posted via http://www.carkb.com
05-04-2006, 11:34 PM
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: K&N Filters
Umm probably not true as far as mileage increase on the highway for a hybrid.
A hybrid gets better mileage due to the battery power assist from a stop. and
charges using the regenerative braking system. On the highway, you don't do
much braking or starting from a stop. The only thing that will get your
better mileage would be a lower displacement engine, though even that is
debatable as a smaller engine may bog down if underpowered, causing lower
mileage.
Hybrids are designed for city driving. If you do a ton of highway driving,
the technology you need is the VCM that comes with the new Oddy, shuts down 3
out of 6 cylinders when RPMs are unchanged for a certain period of time.
Unfortunately, they don't offer this on 4-cylinders.
As far as K&N filters, posting something about these on this group you are
just waiting to get flamed. Looks like you know that.
I for one have had a K&N drop in filtercharger on my 98 civic since 80000kms.
I am now at 250000kms, same filter (I have cleaned it on at least 4 or 5
occasions).
I did a compression test last month, and came back with 190lbs in all 4
cylinders (ok I had 210lbs in Cyl 4, probably some carbon buildup. I been
babying the engine lately to save gas). I do about 60hwy/40city. I also do
alot of driving on gravel roads, as I spend a lot of time in rural Manitoba
Canada. So in my case, the theory that K&Ns don't filter particulates of a
certain size and causes a compression decrease doesn't seem to hold water....
I recommend K&Ns simply because they make financial sense. I can't say I
noticed a mileage gain. The performance gain is minor, and probably not real.
... the filter causes an exciting whistle when I wind the engine up to 6500-
7000 RPMs, sounds like a turbo!
t
Theodore Kaplan wrote:
>A short while back I posted a statement to the effect that my use of K&N
>filters boosted mileage and performance in my two new Honda cars (civic
>hybrid and Element both 05). After putting about 5000 miles on the
>Element's filter, I took it out for an inspection. It was filthy!!! This I
>imagine is what an air filter is supposed to do. As for those of you who so
>kindly responded to my original post of the same topic, I'd like to thank
>you. You've more than ever convinced my of the efficacy of this filter
>system.and its claims for increasing mileage and performance. By the way,
>my Hybrid is now getting over 49mpg in mixed city/highway driving. I
>imagine it will improve even more on long highway trips. Again thanks all
>for your contributions.
--
Message posted via http://www.carkb.com
A hybrid gets better mileage due to the battery power assist from a stop. and
charges using the regenerative braking system. On the highway, you don't do
much braking or starting from a stop. The only thing that will get your
better mileage would be a lower displacement engine, though even that is
debatable as a smaller engine may bog down if underpowered, causing lower
mileage.
Hybrids are designed for city driving. If you do a ton of highway driving,
the technology you need is the VCM that comes with the new Oddy, shuts down 3
out of 6 cylinders when RPMs are unchanged for a certain period of time.
Unfortunately, they don't offer this on 4-cylinders.
As far as K&N filters, posting something about these on this group you are
just waiting to get flamed. Looks like you know that.
I for one have had a K&N drop in filtercharger on my 98 civic since 80000kms.
I am now at 250000kms, same filter (I have cleaned it on at least 4 or 5
occasions).
I did a compression test last month, and came back with 190lbs in all 4
cylinders (ok I had 210lbs in Cyl 4, probably some carbon buildup. I been
babying the engine lately to save gas). I do about 60hwy/40city. I also do
alot of driving on gravel roads, as I spend a lot of time in rural Manitoba
Canada. So in my case, the theory that K&Ns don't filter particulates of a
certain size and causes a compression decrease doesn't seem to hold water....
I recommend K&Ns simply because they make financial sense. I can't say I
noticed a mileage gain. The performance gain is minor, and probably not real.
... the filter causes an exciting whistle when I wind the engine up to 6500-
7000 RPMs, sounds like a turbo!
t
Theodore Kaplan wrote:
>A short while back I posted a statement to the effect that my use of K&N
>filters boosted mileage and performance in my two new Honda cars (civic
>hybrid and Element both 05). After putting about 5000 miles on the
>Element's filter, I took it out for an inspection. It was filthy!!! This I
>imagine is what an air filter is supposed to do. As for those of you who so
>kindly responded to my original post of the same topic, I'd like to thank
>you. You've more than ever convinced my of the efficacy of this filter
>system.and its claims for increasing mileage and performance. By the way,
>my Hybrid is now getting over 49mpg in mixed city/highway driving. I
>imagine it will improve even more on long highway trips. Again thanks all
>for your contributions.
--
Message posted via http://www.carkb.com
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