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my civic and its timing belt
Well I just thought I would tell the world that I actually
did my timing belt myself! This is a big deal for me, since I've never done something like this before, though I would like to say that I am somewhat mechanically inclined. Some interesting things I learnt (and maybe others will want to know?): -The crank pulley bolt was really freakin tight. No, really it was quite ridiculous. I took it to Honda and they broke it for me (free of course!), it took them almost 25 minutes to get that little b5@%ch off. -I busted a water pump bolt whilst installing my new water pump. I was not happy. However, it appears that I realized in time that the bolt just wasn't getting tight, so I stopped trying to tighten it, and reversed. I must be lucky, because the broken portion of the bolt followed the head out of the hole, and I didn't have a mess on my hands. I have no idea how the hell I would have gotten a drill with an easy out in there, without lifting the motor 1/2 way out of the car. Yeesh. - Its a good thing to check over everything while you are underneath the car. I happened to notice that my Alternator pivot bolt was MISSING! I have no idea how the hell that happened, all I can say is "I didn't do it!" i had it in to do the alternator about a year ago. So sometime between then and now, the bolt worked its way out. Talk about SCARY. Anyways, enough of my rant. I'm just elated that I got it done. t |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
"disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote
> Well I just thought I would tell the world that I actually > did my timing belt myself! This is a big deal for me, since > I've never done something like this before, though I would > like to say that I am somewhat mechanically inclined. > > Some interesting things I learnt (and maybe others will want > to know?): > > -The crank pulley bolt was really freakin tight. No, really > it was quite ridiculous. I took it to Honda and they broke > it for me (free of course!), Of course? They didn't even lecture you about how you should have it done there? If not, you must have charm! > it took them almost 25 minutes > to get that little b5@%ch off. Wow. They should have called Caroline's Garage (underwritten by Eric, Mike, Curly, Jim, Rex, George et al.). Woulda had it off in five. > -I busted a water pump bolt whilst installing my new water > pump. I was not happy. However, it appears that I realized > in time that the bolt just wasn't getting tight, so I > stopped trying to tighten it, and reversed. I must be lucky, > because the broken portion of the bolt followed the head out > of the hole, and I didn't have a mess on my hands. I have > no idea how the hell I would have gotten a drill with an > easy out in there, without lifting the motor 1/2 way out of > the car. Yeesh. "Whew" indeed. > - Its a good thing to check over everything while you are > underneath the car. I happened to notice that my Alternator > pivot bolt was MISSING! So one bolt was holding it in place?? If so, pretty cool that the one bolt was sufficient. Good update. |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
"disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote
> Well I just thought I would tell the world that I actually > did my timing belt myself! This is a big deal for me, since > I've never done something like this before, though I would > like to say that I am somewhat mechanically inclined. > > Some interesting things I learnt (and maybe others will want > to know?): > > -The crank pulley bolt was really freakin tight. No, really > it was quite ridiculous. I took it to Honda and they broke > it for me (free of course!), Of course? They didn't even lecture you about how you should have it done there? If not, you must have charm! > it took them almost 25 minutes > to get that little b5@%ch off. Wow. They should have called Caroline's Garage (underwritten by Eric, Mike, Curly, Jim, Rex, George et al.). Woulda had it off in five. > -I busted a water pump bolt whilst installing my new water > pump. I was not happy. However, it appears that I realized > in time that the bolt just wasn't getting tight, so I > stopped trying to tighten it, and reversed. I must be lucky, > because the broken portion of the bolt followed the head out > of the hole, and I didn't have a mess on my hands. I have > no idea how the hell I would have gotten a drill with an > easy out in there, without lifting the motor 1/2 way out of > the car. Yeesh. "Whew" indeed. > - Its a good thing to check over everything while you are > underneath the car. I happened to notice that my Alternator > pivot bolt was MISSING! So one bolt was holding it in place?? If so, pretty cool that the one bolt was sufficient. Good update. |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
That's right, the only bolt holding the alternator in place
was the tensioner bolt on the bracket attached to the water pump. I guess I am very fortunate that it held. As far as the crank pulley bolt, I took it to a friend's shop first. We went at it with his 650 ft-lb gun and a 7.5 HP compressor with 20 Gal tank. No go. We then proceeded to try using a huge breaker bar (6 ft long), I stood on the brake and put it in 5th. We wound it around until all the slack in the tranny was used up, got to the end of the slack, and just could not budge the bolt. The dealership I use here in Winnipeg is pretty good. They know what I can do and what I can't, and they also realize that I am a poor starving student who can't afford their high shop rates. So they cut me deals like this fairly regularly. later t |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
That's right, the only bolt holding the alternator in place
was the tensioner bolt on the bracket attached to the water pump. I guess I am very fortunate that it held. As far as the crank pulley bolt, I took it to a friend's shop first. We went at it with his 650 ft-lb gun and a 7.5 HP compressor with 20 Gal tank. No go. We then proceeded to try using a huge breaker bar (6 ft long), I stood on the brake and put it in 5th. We wound it around until all the slack in the tranny was used up, got to the end of the slack, and just could not budge the bolt. The dealership I use here in Winnipeg is pretty good. They know what I can do and what I can't, and they also realize that I am a poor starving student who can't afford their high shop rates. So they cut me deals like this fairly regularly. later t |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
"disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote
> That's right, the only bolt holding the alternator in place > was the tensioner bolt on the bracket attached to the water > pump. I guess I am very fortunate that it held. > > As far as the crank pulley bolt, I took it to a friend's > shop first. We went at it with his 650 ft-lb gun and a > 7.5 HP compressor with 20 Gal tank. No go. We then > proceeded to try using a huge breaker bar (6 ft long), I > stood on the brake and put it in 5th. We wound it around > until all the slack in the tranny was used up, got to the > end of the slack, and just could not budge the bolt. Hm. All reports here are that the pulley bolts can indeed be hell. Your approach is of course one of many, but I'm not sure it's all that reliable. Or it may be, but those who get it to work show signs of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder immediately after the bolt cracks free. ;-) I don't think I've ever read of a special pulley holder tool (bought retail or made at home, customized to the particular pulley) failing to work. Anyway, you're home free now. Next time should be much easier, no? > The dealership I use here in Winnipeg is pretty good. They > know what I can do and what I can't, and they also realize > that I am a poor starving student who can't afford their > high shop rates. So they cut me deals like this fairly > regularly. I wish some of these Canadian dealerships would move South! :-) |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
"disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote
> That's right, the only bolt holding the alternator in place > was the tensioner bolt on the bracket attached to the water > pump. I guess I am very fortunate that it held. > > As far as the crank pulley bolt, I took it to a friend's > shop first. We went at it with his 650 ft-lb gun and a > 7.5 HP compressor with 20 Gal tank. No go. We then > proceeded to try using a huge breaker bar (6 ft long), I > stood on the brake and put it in 5th. We wound it around > until all the slack in the tranny was used up, got to the > end of the slack, and just could not budge the bolt. Hm. All reports here are that the pulley bolts can indeed be hell. Your approach is of course one of many, but I'm not sure it's all that reliable. Or it may be, but those who get it to work show signs of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder immediately after the bolt cracks free. ;-) I don't think I've ever read of a special pulley holder tool (bought retail or made at home, customized to the particular pulley) failing to work. Anyway, you're home free now. Next time should be much easier, no? > The dealership I use here in Winnipeg is pretty good. They > know what I can do and what I can't, and they also realize > that I am a poor starving student who can't afford their > high shop rates. So they cut me deals like this fairly > regularly. I wish some of these Canadian dealerships would move South! :-) |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
Now that you've done it, congrats. Doing the water pump is definitely worth
the time and money spent. Here is a trick I use on all timing belts. I paint marks on the belts and pullies prior to disassembly. I mark them so each pulley has a unique mark, so they can't be placed on the wrong pulley. I then transfer the marks to the new belt, counting each tooth, to be sure it is the correct belt. Then I place the new belt on, lining up all my marks. This helps alot if the car has 4 cams. -- Stephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Auto Technician "disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message news:1300090c0317113784bbd719dec0956b@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com... > Well I just thought I would tell the world that I actually > did my timing belt myself! This is a big deal for me, since > I've never done something like this before, though I would > like to say that I am somewhat mechanically inclined. > > Some interesting things I learnt (and maybe others will want > to know?): > > -The crank pulley bolt was really freakin tight. No, really > it was quite ridiculous. I took it to Honda and they broke > it for me (free of course!), it took them almost 25 minutes > to get that little b5@%ch off. > -I busted a water pump bolt whilst installing my new water > pump. I was not happy. However, it appears that I realized > in time that the bolt just wasn't getting tight, so I > stopped trying to tighten it, and reversed. I must be lucky, > because the broken portion of the bolt followed the head out > of the hole, and I didn't have a mess on my hands. I have > no idea how the hell I would have gotten a drill with an > easy out in there, without lifting the motor 1/2 way out of > the car. Yeesh. > - Its a good thing to check over everything while you are > underneath the car. I happened to notice that my Alternator > pivot bolt was MISSING! I have no idea how the hell that > happened, all I can say is "I didn't do it!" i had it in to > do the alternator about a year ago. So sometime between > then and now, the bolt worked its way out. Talk about > SCARY. > > Anyways, enough of my rant. I'm just elated that I got it > done. > > t > |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
Now that you've done it, congrats. Doing the water pump is definitely worth
the time and money spent. Here is a trick I use on all timing belts. I paint marks on the belts and pullies prior to disassembly. I mark them so each pulley has a unique mark, so they can't be placed on the wrong pulley. I then transfer the marks to the new belt, counting each tooth, to be sure it is the correct belt. Then I place the new belt on, lining up all my marks. This helps alot if the car has 4 cams. -- Stephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Auto Technician "disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message news:1300090c0317113784bbd719dec0956b@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com... > Well I just thought I would tell the world that I actually > did my timing belt myself! This is a big deal for me, since > I've never done something like this before, though I would > like to say that I am somewhat mechanically inclined. > > Some interesting things I learnt (and maybe others will want > to know?): > > -The crank pulley bolt was really freakin tight. No, really > it was quite ridiculous. I took it to Honda and they broke > it for me (free of course!), it took them almost 25 minutes > to get that little b5@%ch off. > -I busted a water pump bolt whilst installing my new water > pump. I was not happy. However, it appears that I realized > in time that the bolt just wasn't getting tight, so I > stopped trying to tighten it, and reversed. I must be lucky, > because the broken portion of the bolt followed the head out > of the hole, and I didn't have a mess on my hands. I have > no idea how the hell I would have gotten a drill with an > easy out in there, without lifting the motor 1/2 way out of > the car. Yeesh. > - Its a good thing to check over everything while you are > underneath the car. I happened to notice that my Alternator > pivot bolt was MISSING! I have no idea how the hell that > happened, all I can say is "I didn't do it!" i had it in to > do the alternator about a year ago. So sometime between > then and now, the bolt worked its way out. Talk about > SCARY. > > Anyways, enough of my rant. I'm just elated that I got it > done. > > t > |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in
> Hm. All reports here are that the pulley bolts can indeed be hell. >but those who get it to work show signs of Post Traumatic Stress > Disorder immediately after the bolt cracks free. Every Acura/Honda I've worked on show no difficulties or PSDs. I never use impact guns, breaker bars, special pulley holders. |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in
> Hm. All reports here are that the pulley bolts can indeed be hell. >but those who get it to work show signs of Post Traumatic Stress > Disorder immediately after the bolt cracks free. Every Acura/Honda I've worked on show no difficulties or PSDs. I never use impact guns, breaker bars, special pulley holders. |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
My son and I tried to do the belt on his '94 Acura, and the weenie 230 ft-lb
impact I had didn't even come close. The 18 inch breaker bar was inadequate, too. Now I'm looking at better impact drivers - there is a 500 ft-lb Husky for $100 at Home Depot, but I'd like to see more powerful choices. NAPA had a 1" drive 1400+ ft-lb mama listed in their catalog. Betcha that would do the job, if it didn't rip the engine out of the mounts! I'd love to rent one of those babies for the crank bolt. Imagine - the bolt head is smaller than the drive end. When I first did the belt in our rear wheel drive Volvo, I put the breaker bar on a floor jack and lifted. Nearly had the front wheels off the ground before it started moving. (I'm sure glad they were new engine mounts.) There just isn't any room for that in the Honda. I think you were lucky, Ricky, or not the first person to loosen those bolts. Mike "Ricky Spartacus" <rickyspartan@mailandnews.com,ricspa@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1099906667.WMLXbw3I7hz3dG5VwcVtaQ@bubbanews.. . > "Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in > >> Hm. All reports here are that the pulley bolts can indeed be hell. >>but those who get it to work show signs of Post Traumatic Stress >> Disorder immediately after the bolt cracks free. > > Every Acura/Honda I've worked on show no difficulties or PSDs. > I never use impact guns, breaker bars, special pulley holders. > > > > > > > > |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
My son and I tried to do the belt on his '94 Acura, and the weenie 230 ft-lb
impact I had didn't even come close. The 18 inch breaker bar was inadequate, too. Now I'm looking at better impact drivers - there is a 500 ft-lb Husky for $100 at Home Depot, but I'd like to see more powerful choices. NAPA had a 1" drive 1400+ ft-lb mama listed in their catalog. Betcha that would do the job, if it didn't rip the engine out of the mounts! I'd love to rent one of those babies for the crank bolt. Imagine - the bolt head is smaller than the drive end. When I first did the belt in our rear wheel drive Volvo, I put the breaker bar on a floor jack and lifted. Nearly had the front wheels off the ground before it started moving. (I'm sure glad they were new engine mounts.) There just isn't any room for that in the Honda. I think you were lucky, Ricky, or not the first person to loosen those bolts. Mike "Ricky Spartacus" <rickyspartan@mailandnews.com,ricspa@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1099906667.WMLXbw3I7hz3dG5VwcVtaQ@bubbanews.. . > "Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in > >> Hm. All reports here are that the pulley bolts can indeed be hell. >>but those who get it to work show signs of Post Traumatic Stress >> Disorder immediately after the bolt cracks free. > > Every Acura/Honda I've worked on show no difficulties or PSDs. > I never use impact guns, breaker bars, special pulley holders. > > > > > > > > |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
"Ricky Spartacus" <rickyspartan@mailandnews.com,ricspa@yahoo.com>
wrote > "Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in > > > Hm. All reports here are that the pulley bolts can indeed be hell. > >but those who get it to work show signs of Post Traumatic Stress > > Disorder immediately after the bolt cracks free. > > Every Acura/Honda I've worked on show no difficulties or PSDs. > I never use impact guns, breaker bars, special pulley holders. groups.google for the numerous reports and cussing on the subject consistent with my statement above. |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
"Ricky Spartacus" <rickyspartan@mailandnews.com,ricspa@yahoo.com>
wrote > "Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in > > > Hm. All reports here are that the pulley bolts can indeed be hell. > >but those who get it to work show signs of Post Traumatic Stress > > Disorder immediately after the bolt cracks free. > > Every Acura/Honda I've worked on show no difficulties or PSDs. > I never use impact guns, breaker bars, special pulley holders. groups.google for the numerous reports and cussing on the subject consistent with my statement above. |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
snip for conciseness > I think you were lucky, Ricky, or not the first person to loosen those > bolts. It's crossed my mind to break my 91 Civic's pulley bolt free and then torque it to spec once a year, to help preclude headaches when I actually have to change the timing belt every six years/90k miles (for my Civic). I am convinced it's the heat cycling that raises the breakaway torque to estimates of over 500 ft-lbs in many cases. That is, during operation, the bolt gets very hot and stretches (expands). The rotation of the crankshaft (of course so as to tighten the bolt) can and does tighten the bolt. When the engine cools, the bolt contracts, tightening it beyond the spec. of typically between 100-200 ft-lbs. In industry, some large machinery applications have large bolts with wells (holes) in them. By design, bolt heaters are inserted into them to free them up, take apart the equipment, and the later re-assemble. What's measured to achieve the proper tightness is not ft-lbs, but length that the bolt stretches. I've never heard of anyone seeing any dust on these pulley bolts. Mine at 13 years and 150k miles looked new. |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
snip for conciseness > I think you were lucky, Ricky, or not the first person to loosen those > bolts. It's crossed my mind to break my 91 Civic's pulley bolt free and then torque it to spec once a year, to help preclude headaches when I actually have to change the timing belt every six years/90k miles (for my Civic). I am convinced it's the heat cycling that raises the breakaway torque to estimates of over 500 ft-lbs in many cases. That is, during operation, the bolt gets very hot and stretches (expands). The rotation of the crankshaft (of course so as to tighten the bolt) can and does tighten the bolt. When the engine cools, the bolt contracts, tightening it beyond the spec. of typically between 100-200 ft-lbs. In industry, some large machinery applications have large bolts with wells (holes) in them. By design, bolt heaters are inserted into them to free them up, take apart the equipment, and the later re-assemble. What's measured to achieve the proper tightness is not ft-lbs, but length that the bolt stretches. I've never heard of anyone seeing any dust on these pulley bolts. Mine at 13 years and 150k miles looked new. |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
disallow wrote:
> Well I just thought I would tell the world that I actually > did my timing belt myself! This is a big deal for me, since > I've never done something like this before, though I would > like to say that I am somewhat mechanically inclined. > > Some interesting things I learnt (and maybe others will want > to know?): > > -The crank pulley bolt was really freakin tight. No, really > it was quite ridiculous. I took it to Honda and they broke > it for me (free of course!), it took them almost 25 minutes > to get that little b5@%ch off. > -I busted a water pump bolt whilst installing my new water > pump. I was not happy. However, it appears that I realized > in time that the bolt just wasn't getting tight, so I > stopped trying to tighten it, and reversed. I must be lucky, > because the broken portion of the bolt followed the head out > of the hole, and I didn't have a mess on my hands. I have > no idea how the hell I would have gotten a drill with an > easy out in there, without lifting the motor 1/2 way out of > the car. Yeesh. > - Its a good thing to check over everything while you are > underneath the car. I happened to notice that my Alternator > pivot bolt was MISSING! I have no idea how the hell that > happened, all I can say is "I didn't do it!" i had it in to > do the alternator about a year ago. So sometime between > then and now, the bolt worked its way out. Talk about > SCARY. > > Anyways, enough of my rant. I'm just elated that I got it > done. > > t > I tried to do the timing belt on a Toyota about 20 years ago and got stuck at the crank pulley bolt. Then a friend said that all you do is jam the socket wrench into the bumper, or whatever, and then just turn the key ever so quickly. You just want to turn it over. Apparently it spins off on it's own. By the time I heard the trick I had gotten rid of the car. I wonder if anyone had tried it with a honda? Peter H |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
disallow wrote:
> Well I just thought I would tell the world that I actually > did my timing belt myself! This is a big deal for me, since > I've never done something like this before, though I would > like to say that I am somewhat mechanically inclined. > > Some interesting things I learnt (and maybe others will want > to know?): > > -The crank pulley bolt was really freakin tight. No, really > it was quite ridiculous. I took it to Honda and they broke > it for me (free of course!), it took them almost 25 minutes > to get that little b5@%ch off. > -I busted a water pump bolt whilst installing my new water > pump. I was not happy. However, it appears that I realized > in time that the bolt just wasn't getting tight, so I > stopped trying to tighten it, and reversed. I must be lucky, > because the broken portion of the bolt followed the head out > of the hole, and I didn't have a mess on my hands. I have > no idea how the hell I would have gotten a drill with an > easy out in there, without lifting the motor 1/2 way out of > the car. Yeesh. > - Its a good thing to check over everything while you are > underneath the car. I happened to notice that my Alternator > pivot bolt was MISSING! I have no idea how the hell that > happened, all I can say is "I didn't do it!" i had it in to > do the alternator about a year ago. So sometime between > then and now, the bolt worked its way out. Talk about > SCARY. > > Anyways, enough of my rant. I'm just elated that I got it > done. > > t > I tried to do the timing belt on a Toyota about 20 years ago and got stuck at the crank pulley bolt. Then a friend said that all you do is jam the socket wrench into the bumper, or whatever, and then just turn the key ever so quickly. You just want to turn it over. Apparently it spins off on it's own. By the time I heard the trick I had gotten rid of the car. I wonder if anyone had tried it with a honda? Peter H |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
I wouldn't try that on a Honda, since the engine runs
COUNTER-CLOCKWISE. That means that if you tried that little trick on a Honda, it would TIGHTEN the bolt, and perhaps cause all sorts of headaches and cursing. But your trick would work for pretty much any other car, as long as it ran clockwise. (ie backwards from the way it is meant to be.... hehehe) t |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
I wouldn't try that on a Honda, since the engine runs
COUNTER-CLOCKWISE. That means that if you tried that little trick on a Honda, it would TIGHTEN the bolt, and perhaps cause all sorts of headaches and cursing. But your trick would work for pretty much any other car, as long as it ran clockwise. (ie backwards from the way it is meant to be.... hehehe) t |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
I did it once with my daughter's old Toyota, and it works... but it is
really scary. The front end rose up rapidly. (As you say, no way to do it on the Honda.) For cars where there is room for that trick, a more controlled version is to use a floor jack under the socket handle. That way if an engine mount lets go or the handle pops off the jackstand, at least the engine isn't still turning. Mike "disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message news:2fc43da9785484d0d9c9780d2fc149e0@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com... >I wouldn't try that on a Honda, since the engine runs > COUNTER-CLOCKWISE. That means that if you tried that > little trick on a Honda, it would TIGHTEN the bolt, and perhaps > cause all sorts of headaches and cursing. > > But your trick would work for pretty much any other car, > as long as it ran clockwise. (ie backwards from the way > it is meant to be.... hehehe) > > t > |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
I did it once with my daughter's old Toyota, and it works... but it is
really scary. The front end rose up rapidly. (As you say, no way to do it on the Honda.) For cars where there is room for that trick, a more controlled version is to use a floor jack under the socket handle. That way if an engine mount lets go or the handle pops off the jackstand, at least the engine isn't still turning. Mike "disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message news:2fc43da9785484d0d9c9780d2fc149e0@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com... >I wouldn't try that on a Honda, since the engine runs > COUNTER-CLOCKWISE. That means that if you tried that > little trick on a Honda, it would TIGHTEN the bolt, and perhaps > cause all sorts of headaches and cursing. > > But your trick would work for pretty much any other car, > as long as it ran clockwise. (ie backwards from the way > it is meant to be.... hehehe) > > t > |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
It's a good method, and will work sometimes. I have a 3/4 inch gun
just-in-case. It always works -- Stephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Auto Technician "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message news:F9KdnXmvgJ9Otw3cRVn-1Q@sedona.net... >I did it once with my daughter's old Toyota, and it works... but it is >really scary. The front end rose up rapidly. (As you say, no way to do it >on the Honda.) For cars where there is room for that trick, a more >controlled version is to use a floor jack under the socket handle. That way >if an engine mount lets go or the handle pops off the jackstand, at least >the engine isn't still turning. > > Mike > > "disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message > news:2fc43da9785484d0d9c9780d2fc149e0@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com... >>I wouldn't try that on a Honda, since the engine runs >> COUNTER-CLOCKWISE. That means that if you tried that >> little trick on a Honda, it would TIGHTEN the bolt, and perhaps >> cause all sorts of headaches and cursing. >> >> But your trick would work for pretty much any other car, >> as long as it ran clockwise. (ie backwards from the way >> it is meant to be.... hehehe) >> >> t >> > > |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
It's a good method, and will work sometimes. I have a 3/4 inch gun
just-in-case. It always works -- Stephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Auto Technician "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message news:F9KdnXmvgJ9Otw3cRVn-1Q@sedona.net... >I did it once with my daughter's old Toyota, and it works... but it is >really scary. The front end rose up rapidly. (As you say, no way to do it >on the Honda.) For cars where there is room for that trick, a more >controlled version is to use a floor jack under the socket handle. That way >if an engine mount lets go or the handle pops off the jackstand, at least >the engine isn't still turning. > > Mike > > "disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message > news:2fc43da9785484d0d9c9780d2fc149e0@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com... >>I wouldn't try that on a Honda, since the engine runs >> COUNTER-CLOCKWISE. That means that if you tried that >> little trick on a Honda, it would TIGHTEN the bolt, and perhaps >> cause all sorts of headaches and cursing. >> >> But your trick would work for pretty much any other car, >> as long as it ran clockwise. (ie backwards from the way >> it is meant to be.... hehehe) >> >> t >> > > |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
"Steve" <hansensw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JrYjd.868240$Gx4.741590@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... > It's a good method, and will work sometimes. I have a 3/4 inch gun > just-in-case. It always works > > > -- > Stephen W. Hansen > ASE Certified Auto Technician > > What's the peak torque on that? Mike shade tree fixit man |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
"Steve" <hansensw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JrYjd.868240$Gx4.741590@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... > It's a good method, and will work sometimes. I have a 3/4 inch gun > just-in-case. It always works > > > -- > Stephen W. Hansen > ASE Certified Auto Technician > > What's the peak torque on that? Mike shade tree fixit man |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
The gun I was using was 650 ft-lbs, with a 7.5HP 20Gal
compressor, and it still wouldn't break the bolt free... |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
The gun I was using was 650 ft-lbs, with a 7.5HP 20Gal
compressor, and it still wouldn't break the bolt free... |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
"disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message
news:5db1e080537ee127b7763eca808df732@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com... > The gun I was using was 650 ft-lbs, with a 7.5HP 20Gal > compressor, and it still wouldn't break the bolt free... > I just bought a 500 ft-lb driver, and the Honda is no-go with that. I bought it anyway because I know there are some driveaxles in my future, and the smaller driver wouldn't handle them well. Oh, well - that one was only $30 anyway! Next attempt: using a high temp (800F) heat gun on the bolt and then trying the 500 ft-lb. If still no-go, I'll see what I can rent. Failing that, I'll see what the dealer wants for breaking it loose. Mike |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
"disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message
news:5db1e080537ee127b7763eca808df732@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com... > The gun I was using was 650 ft-lbs, with a 7.5HP 20Gal > compressor, and it still wouldn't break the bolt free... > I just bought a 500 ft-lb driver, and the Honda is no-go with that. I bought it anyway because I know there are some driveaxles in my future, and the smaller driver wouldn't handle them well. Oh, well - that one was only $30 anyway! Next attempt: using a high temp (800F) heat gun on the bolt and then trying the 500 ft-lb. If still no-go, I'll see what I can rent. Failing that, I'll see what the dealer wants for breaking it loose. Mike |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
On 11/10/04 6:15 AM, in article zIqdnXrmYbDImw_cRVn-gw@sedona.net, "Michael
Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote: > "disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message > news:5db1e080537ee127b7763eca808df732@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com... >> The gun I was using was 650 ft-lbs, with a 7.5HP 20Gal >> compressor, and it still wouldn't break the bolt free... >> > I just bought a 500 ft-lb driver, and the Honda is no-go with that. I bought > it anyway because I know there are some driveaxles in my future, and the > smaller driver wouldn't handle them well. Oh, well - that one was only $30 > anyway! > > Next attempt: using a high temp (800F) heat gun on the bolt and then trying > the 500 ft-lb. If still no-go, I'll see what I can rent. Failing that, I'll > see what the dealer wants for breaking it loose. > > Mike > > I have seen it documented in several places that 500 ft-lb air wrench will not do it. I think I would be at least a little fearful of destroying a seal or some other important piece of plastic in the vicinity using heat. Also, I don't think it will help. If you don't have the immobilizer tool, you can get it for about $25 from http://www.autopart.com/TOOLS/TOOLSMAIN/tool/T_A812.htm Put your impact socket and a hardened impact extension on it (long enough to clear the fender but no longer because it is going to twist). Find a hardened breaker bar and extend it with a 4 foot piece of gas pipe. I used a jack stand for a fulcrum. The extension will twist about 90 degrees, then the bolt will break loose with a pop. This sounds ugly, but it is a lot cheaper than buying ever bigger impact wrenches and you don't have to be particularly strong to do it. |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
On 11/10/04 6:15 AM, in article zIqdnXrmYbDImw_cRVn-gw@sedona.net, "Michael
Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote: > "disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message > news:5db1e080537ee127b7763eca808df732@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com... >> The gun I was using was 650 ft-lbs, with a 7.5HP 20Gal >> compressor, and it still wouldn't break the bolt free... >> > I just bought a 500 ft-lb driver, and the Honda is no-go with that. I bought > it anyway because I know there are some driveaxles in my future, and the > smaller driver wouldn't handle them well. Oh, well - that one was only $30 > anyway! > > Next attempt: using a high temp (800F) heat gun on the bolt and then trying > the 500 ft-lb. If still no-go, I'll see what I can rent. Failing that, I'll > see what the dealer wants for breaking it loose. > > Mike > > I have seen it documented in several places that 500 ft-lb air wrench will not do it. I think I would be at least a little fearful of destroying a seal or some other important piece of plastic in the vicinity using heat. Also, I don't think it will help. If you don't have the immobilizer tool, you can get it for about $25 from http://www.autopart.com/TOOLS/TOOLSMAIN/tool/T_A812.htm Put your impact socket and a hardened impact extension on it (long enough to clear the fender but no longer because it is going to twist). Find a hardened breaker bar and extend it with a 4 foot piece of gas pipe. I used a jack stand for a fulcrum. The extension will twist about 90 degrees, then the bolt will break loose with a pop. This sounds ugly, but it is a lot cheaper than buying ever bigger impact wrenches and you don't have to be particularly strong to do it. |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
I used a chain wrench to immobilize the crankshaft, and
used some jackstands for a fulcrum, with a 6 foot breaker bar. It did NOT work. Perhaps if I had the proper crank immobilizer, but I am fairly certain that I would have just broken some tools. But I think Michael has the right idea, some heat (not too much as you don't want to cook the seals) would probably do the trick. In fact, if you think about it, thats what an impact gun would do after a while, that bolt would get really hot, even if it wasn't spinning. Michael, I think the big difference is not really the air tool, at least not if its 500ft-lbs or over, in my opinion. The big difference is the strength of your compressor. Also, the size and length of the air hose going to the gun. When I took my car to Honda finally, they used their 1/2" air hose, not a 3/8 like we all use. t |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
I used a chain wrench to immobilize the crankshaft, and
used some jackstands for a fulcrum, with a 6 foot breaker bar. It did NOT work. Perhaps if I had the proper crank immobilizer, but I am fairly certain that I would have just broken some tools. But I think Michael has the right idea, some heat (not too much as you don't want to cook the seals) would probably do the trick. In fact, if you think about it, thats what an impact gun would do after a while, that bolt would get really hot, even if it wasn't spinning. Michael, I think the big difference is not really the air tool, at least not if its 500ft-lbs or over, in my opinion. The big difference is the strength of your compressor. Also, the size and length of the air hose going to the gun. When I took my car to Honda finally, they used their 1/2" air hose, not a 3/8 like we all use. t |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
Interesting how the show to torque the crank pulley bolt in the
shop manual (honda factory manual). They say to seat the bolt at 14 ft-lbs, then mark it and the washer with a marker at 12 o clock. Then turn it until it is at 3 o clock. It would be kinda hard I'm thinking, since the crankshaft will turn a little when you are torquing it, but if you could use the embossing marks as a reference, it might work. t |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
Interesting how the show to torque the crank pulley bolt in the
shop manual (honda factory manual). They say to seat the bolt at 14 ft-lbs, then mark it and the washer with a marker at 12 o clock. Then turn it until it is at 3 o clock. It would be kinda hard I'm thinking, since the crankshaft will turn a little when you are torquing it, but if you could use the embossing marks as a reference, it might work. t |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
You're reading my mind, T. I went to the local rental place and the
knowledgable-sounding mechanic said he had used their 440 ft-lb electric (with 3/4 drive) to break loose a Subaru and a Honda crank bolt. 440 is less than 500, so something is incomplete.... A 50 ft 3/8 inch hose with a cheap regulator at the tank isn't what I'd choose for best whack. I'm headed to the stores today to see about a 1/2 inch hose and a regulator to put at the driver end, so I can pump the hose up to 120 lbs without blowing up the tool. In addition, I'm thinking about using the strap wrench on the socket (it is a deep socket) to take the slack out. My son said the socket got hot to the touch, so we must be losing some of the energy at the socket interface, too. I'm hoping the strap wrench will take care of that. I've seen ads for tools to counterhold the pulley from the inside - they fit that large hex recess - and it would be nice to have one. That would probably "buck" the bolt best, especially if I could rest it on a jackstand. I'm just glad we aren't in a hurry. Mike "disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message news:0f890b0a5bd59c4c35d13f8e4578457a@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com... >I used a chain wrench to immobilize the crankshaft, and > used some jackstands for a fulcrum, with a 6 foot breaker > bar. It did NOT work. Perhaps if I had the proper crank > immobilizer, but I am fairly certain that I would have > just broken some tools. > > But I think Michael has the right idea, some heat (not too > much as you don't want to cook the seals) would probably do > the trick. In fact, if you think about it, thats what an > impact gun would do after a while, that bolt would get > really hot, even if it wasn't spinning. > > Michael, I think the big difference is not really the air tool, at > least not if its 500ft-lbs or over, in my opinion. The big > difference is the strength of your compressor. Also, the > size and length of the air hose going to the gun. When I > took my car to Honda finally, they used their 1/2" air hose, > not a 3/8 like we all use. > > t > |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
You're reading my mind, T. I went to the local rental place and the
knowledgable-sounding mechanic said he had used their 440 ft-lb electric (with 3/4 drive) to break loose a Subaru and a Honda crank bolt. 440 is less than 500, so something is incomplete.... A 50 ft 3/8 inch hose with a cheap regulator at the tank isn't what I'd choose for best whack. I'm headed to the stores today to see about a 1/2 inch hose and a regulator to put at the driver end, so I can pump the hose up to 120 lbs without blowing up the tool. In addition, I'm thinking about using the strap wrench on the socket (it is a deep socket) to take the slack out. My son said the socket got hot to the touch, so we must be losing some of the energy at the socket interface, too. I'm hoping the strap wrench will take care of that. I've seen ads for tools to counterhold the pulley from the inside - they fit that large hex recess - and it would be nice to have one. That would probably "buck" the bolt best, especially if I could rest it on a jackstand. I'm just glad we aren't in a hurry. Mike "disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message news:0f890b0a5bd59c4c35d13f8e4578457a@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com... >I used a chain wrench to immobilize the crankshaft, and > used some jackstands for a fulcrum, with a 6 foot breaker > bar. It did NOT work. Perhaps if I had the proper crank > immobilizer, but I am fairly certain that I would have > just broken some tools. > > But I think Michael has the right idea, some heat (not too > much as you don't want to cook the seals) would probably do > the trick. In fact, if you think about it, thats what an > impact gun would do after a while, that bolt would get > really hot, even if it wasn't spinning. > > Michael, I think the big difference is not really the air tool, at > least not if its 500ft-lbs or over, in my opinion. The big > difference is the strength of your compressor. Also, the > size and length of the air hose going to the gun. When I > took my car to Honda finally, they used their 1/2" air hose, > not a 3/8 like we all use. > > t > |
Re: my civic and its timing belt
I have been reading all the messages relating to the infernal pully
bolt. What I have read would frighten the pope. I was wondering if if would be possible to use a bolt breaker on the pully bolt and simply replace it with a new one? I know bolt breakers are fairly cheap and how much could HONDA CHARGE FOR A NEW NUT? Regards Frank On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:28:05 -0700, "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote: >You're reading my mind, T. I went to the local rental place and the >knowledgable-sounding mechanic said he had used their 440 ft-lb electric >(with 3/4 drive) to break loose a Subaru and a Honda crank bolt. 440 is less >than 500, so something is incomplete.... > >A 50 ft 3/8 inch hose with a cheap regulator at the tank isn't what I'd >choose for best whack. I'm headed to the stores today to see about a 1/2 >inch hose and a regulator to put at the driver end, so I can pump the hose >up to 120 lbs without blowing up the tool. > >In addition, I'm thinking about using the strap wrench on the socket (it is >a deep socket) to take the slack out. My son said the socket got hot to the >touch, so we must be losing some of the energy at the socket interface, too. >I'm hoping the strap wrench will take care of that. > >I've seen ads for tools to counterhold the pulley from the inside - they fit >that large hex recess - and it would be nice to have one. That would >probably "buck" the bolt best, especially if I could rest it on a jackstand. > >I'm just glad we aren't in a hurry. > >Mike > >"disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message >news:0f890b0a5bd59c4c35d13f8e4578457a@localhost.t alkaboutautos.com... >>I used a chain wrench to immobilize the crankshaft, and >> used some jackstands for a fulcrum, with a 6 foot breaker >> bar. It did NOT work. Perhaps if I had the proper crank >> immobilizer, but I am fairly certain that I would have >> just broken some tools. >> >> But I think Michael has the right idea, some heat (not too >> much as you don't want to cook the seals) would probably do >> the trick. In fact, if you think about it, thats what an >> impact gun would do after a while, that bolt would get >> really hot, even if it wasn't spinning. >> >> Michael, I think the big difference is not really the air tool, at >> least not if its 500ft-lbs or over, in my opinion. The big >> difference is the strength of your compressor. Also, the >> size and length of the air hose going to the gun. When I >> took my car to Honda finally, they used their 1/2" air hose, >> not a 3/8 like we all use. >> >> t >> > |
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