Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:

>><stilllost@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:c877p2phbsus97itu4suej4jd26rb8f42i@4ax.com. ..
>>> I've noticed when I pass through the school or police van radars my
>>> 2000 Ody shows about 2-3 mph below what my speedometer is showing. As
>>> an aside, this is a replacement unit, because my first one blew (quit)
>>> during the warranty period.
>>>
>>Interestingly, that's what I've seen in all the modern cars and trucks I've
>>driven the last few years. 2 mph conservative at low speeds, 3 (sometimes 4)
>>mph at highway speeds.
>>
>>Mike

Comparing my 2001 Accord to GPS, the speedometer is dead on. Reads about 1
mph fast at all speeds.

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:

>><stilllost@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:c877p2phbsus97itu4suej4jd26rb8f42i@4ax.com. ..
>>> I've noticed when I pass through the school or police van radars my
>>> 2000 Ody shows about 2-3 mph below what my speedometer is showing. As
>>> an aside, this is a replacement unit, because my first one blew (quit)
>>> during the warranty period.
>>>
>>Interestingly, that's what I've seen in all the modern cars and trucks I've
>>driven the last few years. 2 mph conservative at low speeds, 3 (sometimes 4)
>>mph at highway speeds.
>>
>>Mike

Comparing my 2001 Accord to GPS, the speedometer is dead on. Reads about 1
mph fast at all speeds.

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 10:11:22 -0600, Flatlander47
<flatlander47.removethis@removethis.cox.net> wrote:
>Comparing my 2001 Accord to GPS, the speedometer is dead on. Reads about 1
>mph fast at all speeds.

I've questioned the speedometer on my 2004 Accord as being a little
optimistic, reading 65mph when others are passing me in the presence
of Highway Patrol car! And, um, I forget what else triggered
suspicion, but I estimated at least 2-3mph discrepancy.

However, if anything, I suspected the odometer of being a tad
pessimistic, reading shorter than actual distances, maybe a couple of
percent in the other direction.

So the combination means I look at the speedometer, estimate my time
of arrival, and can't understand why I'm late.

J.

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 10:11:22 -0600, Flatlander47
<flatlander47.removethis@removethis.cox.net> wrote:
>Comparing my 2001 Accord to GPS, the speedometer is dead on. Reads about 1
>mph fast at all speeds.

I've questioned the speedometer on my 2004 Accord as being a little
optimistic, reading 65mph when others are passing me in the presence
of Highway Patrol car! And, um, I forget what else triggered
suspicion, but I estimated at least 2-3mph discrepancy.

However, if anything, I suspected the odometer of being a tad
pessimistic, reading shorter than actual distances, maybe a couple of
percent in the other direction.

So the combination means I look at the speedometer, estimate my time
of arrival, and can't understand why I'm late.

J.

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 10:11:22 -0600, Flatlander47
<flatlander47.removethis@removethis.cox.net> wrote:
>Comparing my 2001 Accord to GPS, the speedometer is dead on. Reads about 1
>mph fast at all speeds.

I've questioned the speedometer on my 2004 Accord as being a little
optimistic, reading 65mph when others are passing me in the presence
of Highway Patrol car! And, um, I forget what else triggered
suspicion, but I estimated at least 2-3mph discrepancy.

However, if anything, I suspected the odometer of being a tad
pessimistic, reading shorter than actual distances, maybe a couple of
percent in the other direction.

So the combination means I look at the speedometer, estimate my time
of arrival, and can't understand why I'm late.

J.

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 10:11:22 -0600, Flatlander47
<flatlander47.removethis@removethis.cox.net> wrote:
>Comparing my 2001 Accord to GPS, the speedometer is dead on. Reads about 1
>mph fast at all speeds.

I've questioned the speedometer on my 2004 Accord as being a little
optimistic, reading 65mph when others are passing me in the presence
of Highway Patrol car! And, um, I forget what else triggered
suspicion, but I estimated at least 2-3mph discrepancy.

However, if anything, I suspected the odometer of being a tad
pessimistic, reading shorter than actual distances, maybe a couple of
percent in the other direction.

So the combination means I look at the speedometer, estimate my time
of arrival, and can't understand why I'm late.

J.

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 23:47:05 -0700, "Bill Radio"
<Wireless@MountainWirelessNOSPAN.com> wrote:

>I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will acheive
>Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 Accord is the
>most accurate! I do, however, have a different car that has a similar 3-4%
>error on the speedometer & odometer. So, now I'm wondering how common a
>problem is this? If I switch tire sizes, it all goes out the window,
>anyway.
>
>Anyone else question their odometer?
>
>Bill Radio
>

For decades, manufacturers have intentionally aimed for calibration
which was as much as 10% above reality. There are a number of
advantages to this - the owner thinks he is getting better gas
mileage, the car is lasting longer, maintenance intervals come sooner
and replacement of the vehicle will come earlier if the decision is
based on the odometer. That said, it seems like the odometers have
become more accurate over the last 10 - 15 years.

As you point out, tire size can throw off the odometer no matter how
well it was calibrated. Even tire wear and inflation will have minor
effects. Also, different brands/models of tires can vary slightly in
size, even if they have the same size designation. Add in a
reasonable production tolerance and a desire to error on the high side
and you can have perhaps a +4% error even though the manufacturer made
a good faith effort to deliver an accurate instrument.

That said, if the manufacturer can be shown to have intentionally
delivered a significantly miscalibrated odometer, it might be cause
for legal action to recover loses associated with excess vehicle
depreciation. To win this, I think they should have to show that the
manufacturer in question was significantly worse than comparable cars
in this regard since the value of a used vehicle is compared to others
on the market. The manufacturer could argue that the odometer
measures "odometer miles" which are comparable with other used
vehicles within the make if not between makes. He could even argue
that, if his make is worse than other in this regard, that the
over-optimistic odometer reading has given his brand a reputation for
quality that compensates for the excess mileage.

Do the papers provided by the court mention any specific level of
inaccuracy? If they can't show that the cars average at least +4%
with original tires, the case is bogus IMO.

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 23:47:05 -0700, "Bill Radio"
<Wireless@MountainWirelessNOSPAN.com> wrote:

>I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will acheive
>Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 Accord is the
>most accurate! I do, however, have a different car that has a similar 3-4%
>error on the speedometer & odometer. So, now I'm wondering how common a
>problem is this? If I switch tire sizes, it all goes out the window,
>anyway.
>
>Anyone else question their odometer?
>
>Bill Radio
>

For decades, manufacturers have intentionally aimed for calibration
which was as much as 10% above reality. There are a number of
advantages to this - the owner thinks he is getting better gas
mileage, the car is lasting longer, maintenance intervals come sooner
and replacement of the vehicle will come earlier if the decision is
based on the odometer. That said, it seems like the odometers have
become more accurate over the last 10 - 15 years.

As you point out, tire size can throw off the odometer no matter how
well it was calibrated. Even tire wear and inflation will have minor
effects. Also, different brands/models of tires can vary slightly in
size, even if they have the same size designation. Add in a
reasonable production tolerance and a desire to error on the high side
and you can have perhaps a +4% error even though the manufacturer made
a good faith effort to deliver an accurate instrument.

That said, if the manufacturer can be shown to have intentionally
delivered a significantly miscalibrated odometer, it might be cause
for legal action to recover loses associated with excess vehicle
depreciation. To win this, I think they should have to show that the
manufacturer in question was significantly worse than comparable cars
in this regard since the value of a used vehicle is compared to others
on the market. The manufacturer could argue that the odometer
measures "odometer miles" which are comparable with other used
vehicles within the make if not between makes. He could even argue
that, if his make is worse than other in this regard, that the
over-optimistic odometer reading has given his brand a reputation for
quality that compensates for the excess mileage.

Do the papers provided by the court mention any specific level of
inaccuracy? If they can't show that the cars average at least +4%
with original tires, the case is bogus IMO.

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 23:47:05 -0700, "Bill Radio"
<Wireless@MountainWirelessNOSPAN.com> wrote:

>I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will acheive
>Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 Accord is the
>most accurate! I do, however, have a different car that has a similar 3-4%
>error on the speedometer & odometer. So, now I'm wondering how common a
>problem is this? If I switch tire sizes, it all goes out the window,
>anyway.
>
>Anyone else question their odometer?
>
>Bill Radio
>

For decades, manufacturers have intentionally aimed for calibration
which was as much as 10% above reality. There are a number of
advantages to this - the owner thinks he is getting better gas
mileage, the car is lasting longer, maintenance intervals come sooner
and replacement of the vehicle will come earlier if the decision is
based on the odometer. That said, it seems like the odometers have
become more accurate over the last 10 - 15 years.

As you point out, tire size can throw off the odometer no matter how
well it was calibrated. Even tire wear and inflation will have minor
effects. Also, different brands/models of tires can vary slightly in
size, even if they have the same size designation. Add in a
reasonable production tolerance and a desire to error on the high side
and you can have perhaps a +4% error even though the manufacturer made
a good faith effort to deliver an accurate instrument.

That said, if the manufacturer can be shown to have intentionally
delivered a significantly miscalibrated odometer, it might be cause
for legal action to recover loses associated with excess vehicle
depreciation. To win this, I think they should have to show that the
manufacturer in question was significantly worse than comparable cars
in this regard since the value of a used vehicle is compared to others
on the market. The manufacturer could argue that the odometer
measures "odometer miles" which are comparable with other used
vehicles within the make if not between makes. He could even argue
that, if his make is worse than other in this regard, that the
over-optimistic odometer reading has given his brand a reputation for
quality that compensates for the excess mileage.

Do the papers provided by the court mention any specific level of
inaccuracy? If they can't show that the cars average at least +4%
with original tires, the case is bogus IMO.

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 23:47:05 -0700, "Bill Radio"
<Wireless@MountainWirelessNOSPAN.com> wrote:

>I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will acheive
>Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 Accord is the
>most accurate! I do, however, have a different car that has a similar 3-4%
>error on the speedometer & odometer. So, now I'm wondering how common a
>problem is this? If I switch tire sizes, it all goes out the window,
>anyway.
>
>Anyone else question their odometer?
>
>Bill Radio
>

For decades, manufacturers have intentionally aimed for calibration
which was as much as 10% above reality. There are a number of
advantages to this - the owner thinks he is getting better gas
mileage, the car is lasting longer, maintenance intervals come sooner
and replacement of the vehicle will come earlier if the decision is
based on the odometer. That said, it seems like the odometers have
become more accurate over the last 10 - 15 years.

As you point out, tire size can throw off the odometer no matter how
well it was calibrated. Even tire wear and inflation will have minor
effects. Also, different brands/models of tires can vary slightly in
size, even if they have the same size designation. Add in a
reasonable production tolerance and a desire to error on the high side
and you can have perhaps a +4% error even though the manufacturer made
a good faith effort to deliver an accurate instrument.

That said, if the manufacturer can be shown to have intentionally
delivered a significantly miscalibrated odometer, it might be cause
for legal action to recover loses associated with excess vehicle
depreciation. To win this, I think they should have to show that the
manufacturer in question was significantly worse than comparable cars
in this regard since the value of a used vehicle is compared to others
on the market. The manufacturer could argue that the odometer
measures "odometer miles" which are comparable with other used
vehicles within the make if not between makes. He could even argue
that, if his make is worse than other in this regard, that the
over-optimistic odometer reading has given his brand a reputation for
quality that compensates for the excess mileage.

Do the papers provided by the court mention any specific level of
inaccuracy? If they can't show that the cars average at least +4%
with original tires, the case is bogus IMO.

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

"JXStern" <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net> wrote in message
news:asr7p29j8lo99bv0hgb2fnb05a15fignjn@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 10:11:22 -0600, Flatlander47
> <flatlander47.removethis@removethis.cox.net> wrote:
> >Comparing my 2001 Accord to GPS, the speedometer is dead on. Reads about
1
> >mph fast at all speeds.
>
> I've questioned the speedometer on my 2004 Accord as being a little
> optimistic, reading 65mph when others are passing me in the presence
> of Highway Patrol car! And, um, I forget what else triggered
> suspicion, but I estimated at least 2-3mph discrepancy.
>
> However, if anything, I suspected the odometer of being a tad
> pessimistic, reading shorter than actual distances, maybe a couple of
> percent in the other direction.
>
> So the combination means I look at the speedometer, estimate my time
> of arrival, and can't understand why I'm late.
>
> J.
>
On several long trips I have had a go at calibrating my speedometer. The
accuracy of my calculation is 100% dependent on the assumption that the
odometer is reading correctly. I set the cruise control to hold several
speeds, usually 60, 65, 70 and 80 mph and then record the miles traveled
over a 3 minute time period. The results were relatively consistent--the
speedometer reading was always higher than the calculated number and it was
a combination of a percentage of the speed plus a fixed value. The error was
4% of the speedometer reading plus 2. So when set to 80, calculated was 75;
70 vs 65, 65 vs 60, 60 vs 61 . Not too sure just how accurate this is but I
do know that when I was moving at the 70 mph (65 speed limit) I always
seemed to be the slowest one on the road.
MLD

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

"JXStern" <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net> wrote in message
news:asr7p29j8lo99bv0hgb2fnb05a15fignjn@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 10:11:22 -0600, Flatlander47
> <flatlander47.removethis@removethis.cox.net> wrote:
> >Comparing my 2001 Accord to GPS, the speedometer is dead on. Reads about
1
> >mph fast at all speeds.
>
> I've questioned the speedometer on my 2004 Accord as being a little
> optimistic, reading 65mph when others are passing me in the presence
> of Highway Patrol car! And, um, I forget what else triggered
> suspicion, but I estimated at least 2-3mph discrepancy.
>
> However, if anything, I suspected the odometer of being a tad
> pessimistic, reading shorter than actual distances, maybe a couple of
> percent in the other direction.
>
> So the combination means I look at the speedometer, estimate my time
> of arrival, and can't understand why I'm late.
>
> J.
>
On several long trips I have had a go at calibrating my speedometer. The
accuracy of my calculation is 100% dependent on the assumption that the
odometer is reading correctly. I set the cruise control to hold several
speeds, usually 60, 65, 70 and 80 mph and then record the miles traveled
over a 3 minute time period. The results were relatively consistent--the
speedometer reading was always higher than the calculated number and it was
a combination of a percentage of the speed plus a fixed value. The error was
4% of the speedometer reading plus 2. So when set to 80, calculated was 75;
70 vs 65, 65 vs 60, 60 vs 61 . Not too sure just how accurate this is but I
do know that when I was moving at the 70 mph (65 speed limit) I always
seemed to be the slowest one on the road.
MLD

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

"JXStern" <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net> wrote in message
news:asr7p29j8lo99bv0hgb2fnb05a15fignjn@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 10:11:22 -0600, Flatlander47
> <flatlander47.removethis@removethis.cox.net> wrote:
> >Comparing my 2001 Accord to GPS, the speedometer is dead on. Reads about
1
> >mph fast at all speeds.
>
> I've questioned the speedometer on my 2004 Accord as being a little
> optimistic, reading 65mph when others are passing me in the presence
> of Highway Patrol car! And, um, I forget what else triggered
> suspicion, but I estimated at least 2-3mph discrepancy.
>
> However, if anything, I suspected the odometer of being a tad
> pessimistic, reading shorter than actual distances, maybe a couple of
> percent in the other direction.
>
> So the combination means I look at the speedometer, estimate my time
> of arrival, and can't understand why I'm late.
>
> J.
>
On several long trips I have had a go at calibrating my speedometer. The
accuracy of my calculation is 100% dependent on the assumption that the
odometer is reading correctly. I set the cruise control to hold several
speeds, usually 60, 65, 70 and 80 mph and then record the miles traveled
over a 3 minute time period. The results were relatively consistent--the
speedometer reading was always higher than the calculated number and it was
a combination of a percentage of the speed plus a fixed value. The error was
4% of the speedometer reading plus 2. So when set to 80, calculated was 75;
70 vs 65, 65 vs 60, 60 vs 61 . Not too sure just how accurate this is but I
do know that when I was moving at the 70 mph (65 speed limit) I always
seemed to be the slowest one on the road.
MLD

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

"JXStern" <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net> wrote in message
news:asr7p29j8lo99bv0hgb2fnb05a15fignjn@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 10:11:22 -0600, Flatlander47
> <flatlander47.removethis@removethis.cox.net> wrote:
> >Comparing my 2001 Accord to GPS, the speedometer is dead on. Reads about
1
> >mph fast at all speeds.
>
> I've questioned the speedometer on my 2004 Accord as being a little
> optimistic, reading 65mph when others are passing me in the presence
> of Highway Patrol car! And, um, I forget what else triggered
> suspicion, but I estimated at least 2-3mph discrepancy.
>
> However, if anything, I suspected the odometer of being a tad
> pessimistic, reading shorter than actual distances, maybe a couple of
> percent in the other direction.
>
> So the combination means I look at the speedometer, estimate my time
> of arrival, and can't understand why I'm late.
>
> J.
>
On several long trips I have had a go at calibrating my speedometer. The
accuracy of my calculation is 100% dependent on the assumption that the
odometer is reading correctly. I set the cruise control to hold several
speeds, usually 60, 65, 70 and 80 mph and then record the miles traveled
over a 3 minute time period. The results were relatively consistent--the
speedometer reading was always higher than the calculated number and it was
a combination of a percentage of the speed plus a fixed value. The error was
4% of the speedometer reading plus 2. So when set to 80, calculated was 75;
70 vs 65, 65 vs 60, 60 vs 61 . Not too sure just how accurate this is but I
do know that when I was moving at the 70 mph (65 speed limit) I always
seemed to be the slowest one on the road.
MLD

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

"JXStern"

> I've questioned the speedometer on my 2004 Accord as being a little
> optimistic, reading 65mph when others are passing me in the presence
> of Highway Patrol car! And, um, I forget what else triggered
> suspicion, but I estimated at least 2-3mph discrepancy.

My 2004 Accord is dead on. I've tested it several times and at various
speeds using a handheld GPS. I've also tested it against the traffic
signboards that tell you your speed as you approach it. Under all
curcumstances, the readings match up. I can't say the same for the three
Civics I owned previously.