Re: protectionist b.s.
 

jr92 <coachrose13@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:a47b30e1-88d4-48d0-b605-2ca578017e50@m31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:


>
>
>
> That does not mean that Toyota does not have problems with sticking
> accelerators.



What about Ford? They account for 28% of SUA incidents. How come nobody's
up in arms about that?


>
>
> Fact#1
>
> Toyota is selling products in which sometimes, the accelerator sticks
> open, creating a safety hazard.



Twelve confirmed stuck-pedal incidents in 2.3 million vehicles. That's
0.00052%.

And of the five deaths so far, at least four had nothing to do with the CTS
pedal assembly.



>
>
> Fact:#2
>
> There are some people who will try to take advantage of the situation
> for monetary gain.



Like the labor unions. They stand to gain mightily from this, in addition
to getting revenge against Toyota for shutting down NUMMI.


>
>
> Fact# 3
>
> Fact number 2 does not mean Fact number 1 does not exist.
>


No, but "Fact #1" seems to be heavily overblown just now...


--
Tegger

Re: protectionist b.s.
 

On 2/4/10 10:29 PM, in article
Xns9D15EF00234FAjyaniklocalnetcom@216.168.3.44, "Jim Yanik"
<jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:

> "E. Meyer" <e.p.meyer@verizon.net> wrote in
> news:C7906C39.17000%e.p.meyer@verizon.net:
>
>> On 2/3/10 7:28 PM, in article
>> geWdnbQpzPojv_fWnZ2dnUVZ_rudnZ2d@giganews.com, "dbu''"
>> <nospam@nobama.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <Xns9D14C85F6C360tegger@208.90.168.18>,
>>> Tegger <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "tww1491" <twaugh5@cox.net> wrote in
>>>> news:Fooan.26826$fu3.6796@newsfe12.iad:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:SYadnYVv5qcHDvTWnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> if toyota needs to learn a lesson from this fiasco, it's that they
>>>>>> need to show up in washington and hand over their lobbying cash
>>>>>> like detroit does, not be politically naive and simply rely on
>>>>>> selling superior product.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In the local paper a couple days ago, a 79 year old women crashed
>>>>> into a veterinarian's office claiming that the gas pedal on her new
>>>>> Toyota stuck. The dealer found nothing wrong with the car. With
>>>>> that story in the paper were reports of drivers complaining to the
>>>>> local Toyota dealer that they received speeding tickets because of
>>>>> "stuck" pedals. And so it has begun. And yet much more to come.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Keep in mind that there have been exactly twelve (12) confirmed
>>>> incidents of actual stuck gas pedals on Toyotas since October.
>>>> Worldwide. Over 2.3 million vehicles.
>>>>
>>>> That's 0.00052%, in case anybody's counting.
>>>
>>> That is well within any reasonable sample of defects for the NASA
>>> space program parts!!!
>>>
>>> THIS has been wildly overblown. BUT....Toyota has been up to the
>>> challenge. They will have it fixed. The Toyota vehicles will be
>>> better than the space shuttle after all is said and done.
>>
>> I remember a month or two after the overturning Ford Explorer fiasco
>> hit the press there was suddenly an epidemic of SUVs of all makes and
>> models flipping over on their sides at every intersection. Before all
>> the publicity, I don't remember ever seeing an overturned SUV.
>> Strange things happen when people start thinking they can cash in.
>>
>>
>
> OTOH,it might be just that the media began NOTICING the SUV rollovers,and
> reporting nationally on every one that happened,instead of just local
> reporting.

I don't think so. I suddenly was passing 2 or three on my way to work every
day & they weren't just Fords. Toyota 4 runners, Nissan Pathfinders, you
name it. It was suddenly, locally, just like the Simpsons episode (gentle
sweeping curve and all the SUVs on the road fell over and exploded). I have
little doubt what was going on.


>
> Kinda like reaching critical mass.... ;-)
>
> Now,I've been reading that the Obama administration's -reaction- to the
> Toyota recall may be due to union influence,considering Toyota is NON-union
> and a "foreign" automaker. (although it's cars have more domestic content
> than many "American" vehicles,that may be made in Canada or Mexico.
>

This I do believe.

> On the Prius brake/cruise control problem,considering that car is a hybrid
> electric(with integral computer control of throttle/braking),I can see
> software bugs cropping up. Sometimes it takes a while to encounter a SW
> bug,particularly under unusual conditions. Like what happens if a ROM's
> data is corrupted;lose a byte here or there,in the wrong place,and you have
> a potentially hazardous condition waiting to be discovered.There's all
> sorts of reasons memory data could get corrupted,AFTER the car is shipped
> and sold.
> At least aircraft have redundant systems.
>
>
> that's why I'm not so hot on drive-by-wire autos;SW glitches.
>

Re: protectionist b.s.
 

Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
news:Xns9D15EF00234FAjyaniklocalnetcom@216.168.3.4 4:


>
> On the Prius brake/cruise control problem,considering that car is a
> hybrid electric(with integral computer control of throttle/braking),I
> can see software bugs cropping up. Sometimes it takes a while to
> encounter a SW bug,particularly under unusual conditions. Like what
> happens if a ROM's data is corrupted;lose a byte here or there,in the
> wrong place,and you have a potentially hazardous condition waiting to
> be discovered.There's all sorts of reasons memory data could get
> corrupted,AFTER the car is shipped and sold.
> At least aircraft have redundant systems.
>
>
> that's why I'm not so hot on drive-by-wire autos;SW glitches.
>
>

here's a timely article today about auto electronic systems and the Toyota
problems;
Prius Problems Put Spotlight On Car Electronics
http://newsmax.com/US/US-TEC-Toyota-...2/04/id/349021

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

Re: protectionist b.s.
 

(Cross postings deleted, automatically)

What is the name of that river in Egypt? ;)


"jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:upCdnWqpHesIHvbWnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> On 02/04/2010 07:51 AM, Mike Hunter wrote:
>> According to todays Tribune Newspapers, the Chairman of the House
>> Oversight
>> Committee is stating Toyota will be asked about runaways problems with
>> the
>> Tacoma truck.
>>
>> The NHTSA has received over 100 complaints about sudden uncontrolled
>> accelerations problem on the Tacoma, their truck that does NOT use the
>> same
>> pedal assembly as the other recalled Toyotas.
>>
>> The article also refers to Japans Transport Ministry releasing that their
>> have been numerous complaints about "braking problems" with NEW
>> generation
>> Prius. Toyota admits they are addressing braking problems in previous
>> Prius models but they are "unaware" of problems in the NEW generation
>> Prius.
>>
>> The ever growing issue over sudden uncontrolled acceleration in most
>> every
>> type of Toyota vehicle is having a sensitizing effect on consumers around
>> the world and Toyotas confusing responses are not helping the situation.
>> Curious ah?
>
> dude, at this stage it's mob hysteria. fact is, frod have defects that
> have killed thousands of americans. but rather than spend money on proper
> design and execution, they instead show up in d.c. with lobbyists and
> spend hundreds of millions of dollars making "contributions" to [which is
> MUCH cheaper b.t.w.] our representatives so they can stay off the
> political/legal radar screen.
>
> toyota, naively, just make great cars under the false impression that
> they're selling into a meritocracy that plays fair. and they are so
> wrong. but toyota, inadvertently, are shining the harsh light of reality
> on the utter debasement of american values with this bullshit from
> politicians that are prepared to take the dollar and turn a blind eye to
> manslaughter rather than stand up for the lives and values of citizens
> that elected them. it's an utter disgrace.
>
>
>
>>
>> "Tegger"<invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9D148F020FD93tegger@208.90.168.18...
>>> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in
>>> news:SYadnYVv5qcHDvTWnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:
>>>
>>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100203...tocompanyrecal
>>>> ltoyota_20100203001517
>>>>
>>>> "US chides Toyota over recall"
>>>>
>>>> this is back-door protectionist political bullshit.
>>>>
>>>> fact: ford, bmw, and others have all had throttle sensor problems, and
>>>> in much greater numbers than toyota.
>>>>
>>>> fact: the media has all but ignored it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Currently Toyota accounts for 41% of all unintended acceleration
>>> incidents.
>>> Ford accounts for 28%. Both Toyota and Ford have about a 16% market
>>> share
>>> apiece.
>>>
>>> GM and Chrysler have UA numbers smaller than their market shares. I
>>> don't
>>> know the exact number.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tegger
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: protectionist b.s.
 

"Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
news:Xns9D16141D6B7B6tegger@208.90.168.18...
> jr92 <coachrose13@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:a47b30e1-88d4-48d0-b605-2ca578017e50@m31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
>>
///snipped///
>> That does not mean that Toyota does not have problems with sticking
>> accelerators.
>
>
>
> What about Ford? They account for 28% of SUA incidents. How come nobody's
> up in arms about that?

I would redirect your attention to the overblown Explorer fiasco. Seems like
there were quite a few up in arms about that. Could it possibly be that of
the 28% of SUA incidents you attribute to Ford that only a miniscule part
were mechanical failures? Just asking.
What I have noticed is this - there is a certain fraction of the population
(any population) that is overjoyed to see one of the "Big Dogs" get whipped.
I would bet that there was a similar reaction to Ford's problems, to GM's
misfortunes, and if Ferrari or Rolls-Royce suffered a similar disaster,
there would be a collection of "experts" that would be delighted and would
go out of their way to denigrate the marque.....I guess its just human
nature to rejoice when the high and mighty are fallen.
DaveD

Re: protectionist b.s.
 

On 02/05/2010 11:30 PM, Dave D wrote:
> "Tegger"<invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
> news:Xns9D16141D6B7B6tegger@208.90.168.18...
>> jr92<coachrose13@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> news:a47b30e1-88d4-48d0-b605-2ca578017e50@m31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
>>>
> ///snipped///
>>> That does not mean that Toyota does not have problems with sticking
>>> accelerators.
>>
>>
>>
>> What about Ford? They account for 28% of SUA incidents. How come nobody's
>> up in arms about that?
>
> I would redirect your attention to the overblown Explorer fiasco.

overblown??? not only did frod do their classic "it's cheaper to pay
settlements to the families of the bereaved than do a recall" math, they
knew that vehicle to be fatally flawed before they even brought it to
market. and to top even that sociopathy, they spent hundreds of
millions pitching the ridiculous concept that cabin collapse and
subsequent crushing of occupants was caused by tire failure!!!

no dude, the exploder fiasco was very much underblown. hundreds died
and frod execs should be in jail - it was nothing less than
manslaughter. political complicity covered frod's ass, just as it's
trying to toyota's now.


> Seems like
> there were quite a few up in arms about that. Could it possibly be that of
> the 28% of SUA incidents you attribute to Ford that only a miniscule part
> were mechanical failures? Just asking.
> What I have noticed is this - there is a certain fraction of the population
> (any population) that is overjoyed to see one of the "Big Dogs" get whipped.
> I would bet that there was a similar reaction to Ford's problems, to GM's
> misfortunes, and if Ferrari or Rolls-Royce suffered a similar disaster,
> there would be a collection of "experts" that would be delighted and would
> go out of their way to denigrate the marque.....I guess its just human
> nature to rejoice when the high and mighty are fallen.
> DaveD

Re: protectionist b.s.
 

"Dave D" <dtdodson@acsalaska.net> wrote in message
news:4b6d1a83$1@news.acsalaska.net...
>
> "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
> news:Xns9D16141D6B7B6tegger@208.90.168.18...
>> jr92 <coachrose13@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> news:a47b30e1-88d4-48d0-b605-2ca578017e50@m31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
>>>
> ///snipped///
>>> That does not mean that Toyota does not have problems with
>>> sticking
>>> accelerators.
>>
>>
>>
>> What about Ford? They account for 28% of SUA incidents. How come
>> nobody's
>> up in arms about that?
>
> I would redirect your attention to the overblown Explorer fiasco.
> Seems like there were quite a few up in arms about that. Could it
> possibly be that of the 28% of SUA incidents you attribute to Ford
> that only a miniscule part were mechanical failures? Just asking.
> What I have noticed is this - there is a certain fraction of the
> population (any population) that is overjoyed to see one of the "Big
> Dogs" get whipped. I would bet that there was a similar reaction to
> Ford's problems, to GM's misfortunes, and if Ferrari or Rolls-Royce
> suffered a similar disaster, there would be a collection of
> "experts" that would be delighted and would go out of their way to
> denigrate the marque.....I guess its just human nature to rejoice
> when the high and mighty are fallen.
> DaveD
>

Dare we say Class Action Lawsuit? Everyone affected will get $2500
off their next new Toyota purchase, and the lawyer firm will get
millions.....

Re: protectionist b.s.
 

"Stewart" <gortamus@gmail.com> wrote in news:hkk62t$ag0$1@news.eternal-
september.org:


>>
>
> Dare we say Class Action Lawsuit? Everyone affected will get $2500
> off their next new Toyota purchase,



More likely you'll just get a coupon for $10 off your next oil change.



> and the lawyer firm will get millions.....
>


That's a certainty. That's what mass tort is for.


--
Tegger

Re: protectionist b.s.
 

On Thu, 4 Feb 2010 11:06:53 -0500, "Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2@lycos,com>
wrote:

>Get real, there have been 19 people killed, and an untold number of people
>injured driving runaway Toyotas, in the US alone.
>
>If I were driving a Toyota today, I would drive with my left foot poised
>over the brake pedal ;)
>

Hey Mike. You might want to watch this video on runaway Ford
Exploeres. This seems to be a problem in UK and Australia.

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eGTqKn_ihc

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIuFX...eature=related


I like the part where they try to blame it on floor mats.






>
>
>
>"Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
>news:Xns9D14C85F6C360tegger@208.90.168.18...
>> "tww1491" <twaugh5@cox.net> wrote in
>> news:Fooan.26826$fu3.6796@newsfe12.iad:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>> news:SYadnYVv5qcHDvTWnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>
>>>>
>>>> if toyota needs to learn a lesson from this fiasco, it's that they
>>>> need to show up in washington and hand over their lobbying cash like
>>>> detroit does, not be politically naive and simply rely on selling
>>>> superior product.
>>>>
>>>
>>> In the local paper a couple days ago, a 79 year old women crashed into
>>> a veterinarian's office claiming that the gas pedal on her new Toyota
>>> stuck. The dealer found nothing wrong with the car. With that story in
>>> the paper were reports of drivers complaining to the local Toyota
>>> dealer that they received speeding tickets because of "stuck" pedals.
>>> And so it has begun. And yet much more to come.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Keep in mind that there have been exactly twelve (12) confirmed incidents
>> of actual stuck gas pedals on Toyotas since October. Worldwide. Over 2.3
>> million vehicles.
>>
>> That's 0.00052%, in case anybody's counting.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tegger
>>
>

Re: protectionist b.s.
 

On Feb 5, 12:10 am, jim beam <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> On 02/04/2010 08:29 PM, Jim Yanik wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "E. Meyer"<e.p.me...@verizon.net> wrote in
> >news:C7906C39.17000%e.p.meyer@verizon.net:
>
> >> On 2/3/10 7:28 PM, in article
> >> geWdnbQpzPojv_fWnZ2dnUVZ_rudn...@giganews.com, "dbu''"
> >> <nos...@nobama.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> >>> In article<Xns9D14C85F6C360teg...@208.90.168.18>,
> >>> Tegger<inva...@invalid.inv> wrote:
>
> >>>> "tww1491"<twau...@cox.net> wrote in
> >>>>news:Fooan.26826$fu3.6796@newsfe12.iad:
>
> >>>>> "jim beam"<m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:SYadnYVv5qcHDvTWnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@speakea sy.net...
>
> >>>>>> if toyota needs to learn a lesson from this fiasco, it's that they
> >>>>>> need to show up in washington and hand over their lobbying cash
> >>>>>> like detroit does, not be politically naive and simply rely on
> >>>>>> selling superior product.
>
> >>>>> In the local paper a couple days ago, a 79 year old women crashed
> >>>>> into a veterinarian's office claiming that the gas pedal on her new
> >>>>> Toyota stuck. The dealer found nothing wrong with the car. With
> >>>>> that story in the paper were reports of drivers complaining to the
> >>>>> local Toyota dealer that they received speeding tickets because of
> >>>>> "stuck" pedals. And so it has begun. And yet much more to come.
>
> >>>> Keep in mind that there have been exactly twelve (12) confirmed
> >>>> incidents of actual stuck gas pedals on Toyotas since October.
> >>>> Worldwide. Over 2.3 million vehicles.
>
> >>>> That's 0.00052%, in case anybody's counting.
>
> >>> That is well within any reasonable sample of defects for the NASA
> >>> space program parts!!!
>
> >>> THIS has been wildly overblown. BUT....Toyota has been up to the
> >>> challenge. They will have it fixed. The Toyota vehicles will be
> >>> better than the space shuttle after all is said and done.
>
> >> I remember a month or two after the overturning Ford Explorer fiasco
> >> hit the press there was suddenly an epidemic of SUVs of all makes and
> >> models flipping over on their sides at every intersection. Before all
> >> the publicity, I don't remember ever seeing an overturned SUV.
> >> Strange things happen when people start thinking they can cash in.
>
> > OTOH,it might be just that the media began NOTICING the SUV rollovers,and
> > reporting nationally on every one that happened,instead of just local
> > reporting.
>
> > Kinda like reaching critical mass.... ;-)
>
> > Now,I've been reading that the Obama administration's -reaction- to the
> > Toyota recall may be due to union influence,considering Toyota is NON-union
> > and a "foreign" automaker. (although it's cars have more domestic content
> > than many "American" vehicles,that may be made in Canada or Mexico.
>
> > On the Prius brake/cruise control problem,considering that car is a hybrid
> > electric(with integral computer control of throttle/braking),I can see
> > software bugs cropping up. Sometimes it takes a while to encounter a SW
> > bug,particularly under unusual conditions. Like what happens if a ROM's
> > data is corrupted;lose a byte here or there,in the wrong place,and you have
> > a potentially hazardous condition waiting to be discovered.There's all
> > sorts of reasons memory data could get corrupted,AFTER the car is shipped
> > and sold.
> > At least aircraft have redundant systems.
>
> > that's why I'm not so hot on drive-by-wire autos;SW glitches.
>
> well, i drove a prius extensively this past summer, and found it to be a
> smooth, finely engineered vehicle - no glitches, flaws, or mistakes in
> performance anywhere. responsive too. wouldn't hesitate to recommend
> one for driveability.
>


Geeze, you drove a Prius for a whole summer without any braking
problems, and that proves it is great automobile.

Ok/


I have driven A WHOLE BUNCH OF GM CARS FOR OVER 34 YEARS with 'no
glitches, flaws or mistakes in performance anywhere".


I would recomend any of them for driveability, as well.


Of course, my 34 years of GM dont count for much, because you drove a
TOYOTA FOR A WHOLE SUMMER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I guess that makes you an expert on the reliablity on Toyota products.


And, I guess, I need to own GM products for another 34 years before I
begin to know anything about them.





You really sound stupid when you try to say the couple of miles you
drove this car proves it is better than a brand that someone else has
driven for HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF MILES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Without sludge problems.



Or accelerator sticking problems.




Or rusting problems.




Or breaking problems.





Of course, none of the above problems really exist on Toyotas.




You know that because you drove a Prius for a summer.



Get a grip!!!!!!!!!!!!!!








"They are being set up."




I argued GM was being unfairly slammed for many years.


Your turn to argue Toyota is being done the same way.


I would wish you good luck in your crusade to prove they ain/t being
done the same way, but I dont want to be a liar.


I hope they have to recall another 20,000,000 vehicles, and listen to
the likes of you try to defend it.



> i also drove a chevy hhr, and if there is an example of "fly-by-wire"
> done wrong, the hhr is it - what a piece of crap. whoever decided a
> vehicle needs a 3-second delay on mid-throttle response needs a good
> kicking in the gonads.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Re: protectionist b.s.
 

On Feb 5, 12:17 am, jim beam <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> On 02/04/2010 08:56 PM, jr92 wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 3, 7:19 pm, "tww1491"<twau...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> "jim beam"<m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>
> >>news:SYadnYVv5qcHDvTWnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@speakeasy. net...
>
> >>>http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100203...autocompanyrec....
>
> >>> "US chides Toyota over recall"
>
> >>> this is back-door protectionist political bullshit.
>
> >>> fact: ford, bmw, and others have all had throttle sensor problems, and in
> >>> much greater numbers than toyota.
>
> >>> fact: the media has all but ignored it.
>
> >>> here we are, hot on the heels of political dismay at the unconsidered
> >>> consequences of their ridiculous "cash for clunkers" program benefiting
> >>> manufacturers of fuel efficient cars, not domestic gas guzzlers, being
> >>> subjected to politically motivated hysterical xenophobia.
>
> >>> fact: toyota sells better, more fuel efficient, safer, more reliable
> >>> vehicles using american parts and american labor than domestics assembling
> >>> their carp from the chinese componentry they import.
>
> >>> if toyota needs to learn a lesson from this fiasco, it's that they need to
> >>> show up in washington and hand over their lobbying cash like detroit does,
> >>> not be politically naive and simply rely on selling superior product.
>
> >> In the local paper a couple days ago, a 79 year old women crashed intoa
> >> veterinarian's office claiming that the gas pedal on her new Toyota stuck.
> >> The dealer found nothing wrong with the car. With that story in the paper
> >> were reports of drivers complaining to the local Toyota dealer that they
> >> received speeding tickets because of "stuck" pedals. And so it has begun.
> >> And yet much more to come.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > That does not mean that Toyota does not have problems with sticking
> > accelerators.
>
> > Fact#1
>
> > Toyota is selling products in which sometimes, the accelerator sticks
> > open, creating a safety hazard.
>
> all 12? and both [as in TWO] fatal crash vehicles were operated by
> drivers apparently incapable of using brakes, ignition switch and
> neutral transmission that would have prevented anything other than
> inconvenience of having to pull over to the side of the road.
>
> frod sell /more/ - MANY more vehicles with faulty throttles. wtf is the
> outrage over that? same with bmw.
>
>
>
> > Fact:#2
>
> > There are some people who will try to take advantage of the situation
> > for monetary gain.
>
> yeah - our elected "representatives" that are accepting the detroit
> [translation: foreign importer] dollar ahead of domestically [toyota]
> produced vehicles.
>
>
>
> > Fact# 3
>
> > Fact number 2 does not mean Fact number 1 does not exist.
>
> oh, #2 exists all right.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


As do # 1 and #3.

Re: protectionist b.s.
 

On Feb 5, 12:34 am, jim beam <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> On 02/04/2010 08:49 PM, jr92 wrote:
>
> > On Feb 3, 10:17 am, jim beam<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> >>http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100203...autocompanyrec....
>
> >> "US chides Toyota over recall"
>
> >> this is back-door protectionist political bullshit.
>
> > You mean, like the Japanese version of protectionism that, in 2008,
> > exported over 2 million vechicles to the US, while at the same time,
> > only allowing 12 thousand American nameplates to be imported
> > there??????
>
> no, i mean the us protectionism that hypocritically masquerades detroit
> brands as "domestic" when all the brakes, steering gear, driveshafts,
> instruments, seats, etc. are imported from china killing american companies.




>
> You are really a piece of work. I bet you juggle real well.

You competly miss my point of JAPANESE protectionism regarding
American nameplates, and at the same time lie about "all" parts
(paraphrasing here) on domestic vehicles come from China.


Far from the truth, of cours, but believe what you want, just as you
believe a few days driving a Prius while being lucky enough to not
have brake problems "prove" the problem is pollitically motivated by
the US.



>
> > Or the type of protectionism that Japan displayed when they had their
> > own "cash for clunkers" program, but excluded the handful of American
> > nameplates that WERE sold there from the program???????
>



> cash for clunkers was ridiculously ill-conceived idiocy. it would have
> been cheaper and better for the american public to divide the money
> among the few remaining detroit workers and close the money-sucking
> dinosaurs for which they "work".
>
>

And yet, you miss my point by a few light years.


My point is, "WHY DID THE JAPANESE NOT INCLUDE AMERICAN NAMEPLATES IN
THEIR CASH FOR CLUNKERS PROGRAM???


If the American nameplates are the junk that you suggest they are, no
one in Japan would buy them in the first place.


If that is the case, why doesn't Japan allow a true free market, and
allow US vehicles be sold in Japan without restrictions?????


I American cars were the junk the likes of you suggest, no one in
Japan would buy them if the first place.


Of, course, the way Japan has is set up, no one really gets the chance
to buy them in the first place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>
>
>
> > Sounds fair to me, I guess, if I were from Japan.
>
> >> fact: ford, bmw, and others have all had throttle sensor problems, and
> >> in much greater numbers than toyota.
>
> >> fact: the media has all but ignored it.
>
> > Amazing statement.
>
> > For over three decades, the media has lamblasted American autos for
> > everything from interior light bulbs burning out, to weather stripping
> > dry-rotting after 10 years. They hammered away repeatedly at the "lack
> > of American reliability until many, who did not check things out on
> > their own, began to believe them.
>
> go to a junk yard buddy. you'll see domestic vehicles by the thousand,
> 10 years and younger. you'll see japanese 15 years and older. the
> domestics are worn out. the japanese are there simply because their
> drivers got bored.
>
> nothing speaks to reliability facts better than a junkyard.
>
>

Or the highway.

Take any year you want: 1995, 2007,1988, 1993, or whatever.

See how many American namelates are on the road compared to their
"superior" Japanese conterparts.


I bet you would be surprised.


>
> > Now, the worm is beginning to turn, and there are those who believed
> > what the media said for thirty years, are accusing them of the same
> > things they did against American nameplates.
>
> hey, i'm a patriot and i'll always buy domestic when it makes sense.
> but detroit vehicles are unbelievable crap. and i don't like being
> ripped off by mercenary a-holes that try to sell me vehicles they /know/
> to be defective - frod and their exploder fiasco. and i don't like
> having to pay through the nose to keep gas guzzling unreliable pieces of
> s. on the road when i can buy japanese and actually get a reliable vehicle.
>

Once again you are pulling a Cyndi Lauper and are displaying your
"true colors"

you are biased to the nth degree as far as American nameplates go.

"domestic crap"

"unbelievable crap"

"unreliable pieces of s"


All untrue, of course.

Your one summer of Prius driving does not "prove" American nameplates
are bad.


>
>
> > Maybe turn-a-bout IS fair play!
>
> telling the truth is fair play. detroit produces garbage and expects
> the tax payer to bail out their inability to produce vehicles properly.
>
>
>
> >> here we are, hot on the heels of political dismay at the unconsidered
> >> consequences of their ridiculous "cash for clunkers" program benefiting
> >> manufacturers of fuel efficient cars, not domestic gas guzzlers, being
> >> subjected to politically motivated hysterical xenophobia.
>
> > Kinda funny how it took about 20 MILLION
>
> ok dude, now you're just a bullshitter.
>


No, just facts, even if you don't want to believe them.


Check it out, not hard to find.



> > Toyota recalls over the past
>
>
>
> > 3 or 4 years before it became politically motivated, or a "hysterical
> > xeonphobia."
>
> > Hell , a good chunk of the MILLIONS of recalls happened well before it
> > became "chic' to knock Toyota.
>
> > The sludging engines, or rusting supensions were known well before the
> > US government began ownership in GM or Chysler, so there was nothing
> > to be gained by the US pressuring Toyota into making recalls. There
> > goes the 'conflict of interest" argument.
>
> > And BTW, if you believe Toyota has NOT been spending bundles of money
> > lobbying Washington, then YOU are more naive than you claim Toyota is.
>
> >> fact: toyota sells better, more fuel efficient, safer, more reliable
> >> vehicles using american parts and american labor than domestics
> >> assembling their carp from the chinese componentry they import.
>
> > Really, you didn't make a single factual statement at all in this
> > paragrah.
>
> > Matter of fact, just the opposite of what you stated is actually true.
>
> >> if toyota needs to learn a lesson from this fiasco, it's that they need
> >> to show up in washington and hand over their lobbying cash like detroit
> >> does, not be politically naive and simply rely on selling superior product.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Re: protectionist b.s.
 

On Feb 5, 1:17 am, Tegger <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote:
> jr92 <coachros...@hotmail.com> wrote innews:28a1db53-7537-473d-8873-d2afacbd189a@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:
>
> > On Feb 3, 10:17 am, jim beam <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> >>http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100203...autocompanyrec.
> >> ..
>
> >> "US chides Toyota over recall"
>
> >> this is back-door protectionist political bullshit.
>
> > You mean, like the Japanese version of protectionism that, in 2008,
> > exported over 2 million vechicles to the US, while at the same time,
> > only allowing 12 thousand American nameplates to be imported
> > there??????
>
> So what? Maybe the Japs simply don't like our cars. Ever thought of that?
> If WE won't buy them, why would THEY?
>

If that is the case, why not let the free market decide???????????????

If you are right, the Japanese would NOT buy US products.

But, of course, they MIGHT buy US if they HAD THE CHANCE TO DO SO IN
THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The GOVERNMENT restricts the number of US imports sold in Japan.

If there were "TRUE FREE TRADE", and the Japanese still didn't buy
from the USA, you might have a point.

But, being they are not allowed to so IN THE FIRST PLACE, you simply
make a moot point/


Why not give the Japanese the CHOICE TO REJECT US
NAMEPLATES?????????????????


Maybe because the Japanese government fears the public might not do
so???????






> There's a reason Toyota has the market share they do, in spite of all the
> hatred directed against them from certain quarters.
>
> --
> Tegger

Re: protectionist b.s.
 

On 02/06/2010 10:46 PM, jr92 wrote:
> On Feb 5, 12:17�am, jim beam<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> On 02/04/2010 08:56 PM, jr92 wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 3, 7:19 pm, "tww1491"<twau...@cox.net> �wrote:
>>>> "jim beam"<m...@privacy.net> �wrote in message
>>
>>>> news:SYadnYVv5qcHDvTWnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>
>>>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100203...autocompanyrec...
>>
>>>>> "US chides Toyota over recall"
>>
>>>>> this is back-door protectionist political bullshit.
>>
>>>>> fact: ford, bmw, and others have all had throttle sensor problems, and in
>>>>> much greater numbers than toyota.
>>
>>>>> fact: the media has all but ignored it.
>>
>>>>> here we are, hot on the heels of political dismay at the unconsidered
>>>>> consequences of their ridiculous "cash for clunkers" program benefiting
>>>>> manufacturers of fuel efficient cars, not domestic gas guzzlers, being
>>>>> subjected to politically motivated hysterical xenophobia.
>>
>>>>> fact: toyota sells better, more fuel efficient, safer, more reliable
>>>>> vehicles using american parts and american labor than domestics assembling
>>>>> their carp from the chinese componentry they import.
>>
>>>>> if toyota needs to learn a lesson from this fiasco, it's that they need to
>>>>> show up in washington and hand over their lobbying cash like detroit does,
>>>>> not be politically naive and simply rely on selling superior product.
>>
>>>> In the local paper a couple days ago, a 79 year old women crashed into a
>>>> veterinarian's office claiming that the gas pedal on her new Toyota stuck.
>>>> The dealer found nothing wrong with the car. With that story in the paper
>>>> were reports of drivers complaining to the local Toyota dealer that they
>>>> received speeding tickets because of "stuck" pedals. And so it has begun.
>>>> And yet much more to come.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>>> That does not mean that Toyota does not have problems with sticking
>>> accelerators.
>>
>>> Fact#1
>>
>>> Toyota is selling products in which sometimes, the accelerator sticks
>>> open, creating a safety hazard.
>>
>> all 12? �and both [as in TWO] fatal crash vehicles were operated by
>> drivers apparently incapable of using brakes, ignition switch and
>> neutral transmission that would have prevented anything other than
>> inconvenience of having to pull over to the side of the road.
>>
>> frod sell /more/ - MANY more vehicles with faulty throttles. �wtf is the
>> outrage over that? �same with bmw.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Fact:#2
>>
>>> There are some people who will try to take advantage of the situation
>>> for monetary gain.
>>
>> yeah - our elected "representatives" that are accepting the detroit
>> [translation: foreign importer] dollar ahead of domestically [toyota]
>> produced vehicles.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Fact# 3
>>
>>> Fact number 2 does not mean Fact number 1 does not exist.
>>
>> oh, #2 exists all right.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>
> As do # 1 and #3.

what about the hundreds of frods and bmw's with throttle problems? why
is the whitehouse not announcing investigations into those given that
they outnumber toyota "problems" >100:1?

Re: protectionist b.s.
 

On 02/06/2010 11:37 PM, jr92 wrote:
> On Feb 5, 1:17�am, Tegger<inva...@invalid.inv> wrote:
>> jr92<coachros...@hotmail.com> wrote innews:28a1db53-7537-473d-8873-d2afacbd189a@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> On Feb 3, 10:17�am, jim beam<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100203...autocompanyrec.
>>>> ..
>>
>>>> "US chides Toyota over recall"
>>
>>>> this is back-door protectionist political bullshit.
>>
>>> You mean, like the Japanese version of protectionism that, in 2008,
>>> exported over 2 million vechicles to the US, while at the same time,
>>> only allowing 12 thousand American nameplates to be imported
>>> there??????
>>
>> So what? Maybe the Japs simply don't like our cars. Ever thought of that?
>> If WE won't buy them, why would THEY?
>>
>
> If that is the case, why not let the free market decide???????????????
>
> If you are right, the Japanese would NOT buy US products.
>
> But, of course, they MIGHT buy US if they HAD THE CHANCE TO DO SO IN
> THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
> The GOVERNMENT restricts the number of US imports sold in Japan.
>
> If there were "TRUE FREE TRADE", and the Japanese still didn't buy
> from the USA, you might have a point.
>
> But, being they are not allowed to so IN THE FIRST PLACE, you simply
> make a moot point/
>
>
> Why not give the Japanese the CHOICE TO REJECT US
> NAMEPLATES?????????????????
>
>
> Maybe because the Japanese government fears the public might not do
> so???????

that doesn't explain why japanese vehicles sell so well in all the other
markets where u.s. manufacturers are free to compete.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automot...y_Manufacturer

note that

1. vw outsells gm globally for cars.

2. gm's non-domestic product line includes opel, a range of cheap,
small, efficient vehicles with global appeal that sell well in other
markets [but they don't make them here]. they have a real hard time
selling their domestic product line overseas and they'd be sunk if they
were so trying.

fact is, the japanese make better, more reliable vehicles that sell well
in every market in the world. u.s. domestic vehicles have very limited
appeal outside domestic markets so this "protectionist" argument doesn't
wash..



>
>
>
>
>
>
>> There's a reason Toyota has the market share they do, in spite of all the
>> hatred directed against them from certain quarters.
>>
>> --
>> Tegger
>