Steve

Observer wrote:

>
> Yeah but when you replace tires, a lot of shops use air tools. I
> don't recall any checking the tires with a torque wrench. I do agree
> with another poster that many shops over torque.

Standard practice these days is to snug the bolts with an air wrench and
a torque-limit stick, then do the final torque-down with a torque wrench.

Actually most shops have been doing that for 10+ years now. Time flies.


With my own cars in my own garage, I just use my air wrench because I
have a very good feel for the correct torque with that wrench at the air
line pressure setting I run. Every so often I check myself with a torque
wrench and I'm never off by more than a couple of ft-lb. But you can't
do that in a shop where you grab a different air wrench every time or
you change a tire. Also most of my cars are old enough to be rear-drives
with integral hub-rotor assemblies instead of "top hat" rotors that
slide over the wheel studs like FWD cars. They are far less sensitive to
over-torquing because the hub/rotor assembly is so much beefier and
doesn't have an alignment issue if you torque one stud/nut down too hard
before the other side gets torqued.

Scott Dorsey

Observer <void@use.net> wrote:
>
>Yeah but when you replace tires, a lot of shops use air tools. I
>don't recall any checking the tires with a torque wrench. I do agree
>with another poster that many shops over torque.

Some use the sticks, some use torque wrenches, some don't use either one.
Most will use torque wrenches if you ask them politely. Tipping helps, too.
It takes a little more time to do it right.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

hls

"Steve" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message
> Standard practice these days is to snug the bolts with an air wrench and
> a torque-limit stick, then do the final torque-down with a torque wrench.
>
> Actually most shops have been doing that for 10+ years now. Time flies.
>

I have had discs warped on more than one occasion by the TorxStik approach.
They are NOT failsafe.

If you want to be sure, ask them to torque the nuts on with a manual torque
wrench, and specify that they use the star pattern suggested by most
manufacturers. Then you are sure.

Sharx35

"Otis" <rev_otis_mcnatt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:46e0adf3-8842-4fee-8280-b338ff4c231d@m11g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> General questions which is why I included five NG's.
>
> I've actually had the car for almost a year (bought 9-25-08).
>
> The car had a mild steering wheel shimmy at 60-70 mph that
> I noticed driving it home from the dealership the day I bought it.
> The car had not been sitting on the lot long ( a week or so, being
> recently delivered), so I doubt there were flat spots on the tires.
> I decided to let it go and forget about it. Still, you don't expect
> this with a brand new car with six miles on it and equipped with
> Michelins. The shimmy pretty much stayed, but as I said,
> it is mild. I rotated the tires at about 6500 miles a couple of
> months ago, which is when the little Honda Maintenance Minder
> told me to (cross to front as the manual said).
>
> Since then, I've noticed that, along with the usual shimmy, it gets
> a good deal worse when I press the brake at highway speeds.
> I doubt very seriously that the rotors are warped, but that the wheels
> were somehow not completely balanced at the factory. And maybe
> crossing the tires at rotation made the effect worse. That's my
> guess.
> I took the car out to the dlership today, explained, and the guy
> wanted
> to check the brakes (he said three hours for some reason) and possibly
> *turn* the rotors. Why? I've never had rotors turned in my life;
> if they
> got too grooved I'd just replace them. Considering the time, and his
> talking about turning rotors, I decided to hold off for now. Do you
> think
> I should take the car in and have them at least check the balance
> on the wheels (free till the 1 year anniversary of purchase)? I could
> just see those guys working on the car, and driving off with it
> *worse*
> than before. I've had this happen occasionally over the years.
>
> And a-n-o-t-h-e-r thing.....
>
> I was recently talking casually to a guy who runs a body shop. We
> were near my Accord and he immediately mentioned that the gap
> between the hood and fender on the left was not the same as the
> corresponding gap on the right side of the hood. And sure enough,
> it wasn't, and very noticeable even though I never noticed. He said
> that was very unusual for Honda and even asked me if the car had
> been wrecked. Pic link below. There is sunlight reflection a
> little
> on the left gap, but you should still be able to see it. The gap on
> left is noticeably bigger than the one on the right. The hood
> opens and closes nicely and everything seems tight and right,
> but it does look kind of bad. What do you guys think? Should
> I complain to Honda about it? Thanks a lot.
>
> http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/t...t=GEDC0178.jpg

Who gives a about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a ING Toyota
newsgroup. Get the out.

dsi1

jim beam wrote:
> On 09/18/2009 01:38 AM, dsi1 wrote:
>> jim beam wrote:
>>> it's extremely rare for honda rotors to actually warp. it is however
>>> extremely common for surface rust and incorrect torque procedure to
>>> create symptoms /like/ warping.
>>>
>>> solution: clean the disk and wheel interface of rust. apply a little
>>> antiseize. re-bolt the wheel with a two or more stage torque process,
>>> using a torque wrench.
>>>
>>
>> I've never owned a Honda so I defer to your expertise - all the cars
>> I've owned had the standard warping rotors.
>
> it's probably for the reasons i said. try the scrape, anti-seize and
> torque wrench solution.
>
>
>> OTOH, I've never had a car
>> that was sensitive to rust on the wheel hubs.
>
> the two are connected. seriously, it's very unusual for the brake disk
> iron to actually warp.
>

That brake rotors don't warp is an interesting idea that I've not heard
before. What happens to me is that heavy braking, such as when slowing
down at the bottom of a hill, will tend to cause an oscillating feedback
at the steering wheel.

Hopefully, you're right and I've been seriously misinformed, after all,
it's cheaper to wire-brush wheel hubs than to machine them. Will try
this - thanks!

>
>> Does this happen mostly
>> with steel wheels or alloy wheels?
>
> it's more noticeable with steel..
>
>
>>
>> Those grease monkeys sure do like to over-torque those wheel nuts!
>

hls

>
> Who gives a about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a ING Toyota
> newsgroup. Get the out.

Did the next to the last man on earth die and leave you his position of
authority?

Steve

Sharx35 wrote:
>
> "Otis" <rev_otis_mcnatt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:46e0adf3-8842-4fee-8280-b338ff4c231d@m11g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>> General questions which is why I included five NG's.
>>
>> I've actually had the car for almost a year (bought 9-25-08).
>>
>> The car had a mild steering wheel shimmy at 60-70 mph that
>> I noticed driving it home from the dealership the day I bought it.
>> The car had not been sitting on the lot long ( a week or so, being
>> recently delivered), so I doubt there were flat spots on the tires.
>> I decided to let it go and forget about it. Still, you don't expect
>> this with a brand new car with six miles on it and equipped with
>> Michelins. The shimmy pretty much stayed, but as I said,
>> it is mild. I rotated the tires at about 6500 miles a couple of
>> months ago, which is when the little Honda Maintenance Minder
>> told me to (cross to front as the manual said).
>>
>> Since then, I've noticed that, along with the usual shimmy, it gets
>> a good deal worse when I press the brake at highway speeds.
>> I doubt very seriously that the rotors are warped, but that the wheels
>> were somehow not completely balanced at the factory. And maybe
>> crossing the tires at rotation made the effect worse. That's my
>> guess.
>> I took the car out to the dlership today, explained, and the guy
>> wanted
>> to check the brakes (he said three hours for some reason) and possibly
>> *turn* the rotors. Why? I've never had rotors turned in my life;
>> if they
>> got too grooved I'd just replace them. Considering the time, and his
>> talking about turning rotors, I decided to hold off for now. Do you
>> think
>> I should take the car in and have them at least check the balance
>> on the wheels (free till the 1 year anniversary of purchase)? I could
>> just see those guys working on the car, and driving off with it
>> *worse*
>> than before. I've had this happen occasionally over the years.
>>
>> And a-n-o-t-h-e-r thing.....
>>
>> I was recently talking casually to a guy who runs a body shop. We
>> were near my Accord and he immediately mentioned that the gap
>> between the hood and fender on the left was not the same as the
>> corresponding gap on the right side of the hood. And sure enough,
>> it wasn't, and very noticeable even though I never noticed. He said
>> that was very unusual for Honda and even asked me if the car had
>> been wrecked. Pic link below. There is sunlight reflection a
>> little
>> on the left gap, but you should still be able to see it. The gap on
>> left is noticeably bigger than the one on the right. The hood
>> opens and closes nicely and everything seems tight and right,
>> but it does look kind of bad. What do you guys think? Should
>> I complain to Honda about it? Thanks a lot.
>>
>> http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/t...t=GEDC0178.jpg
>>
>
> Who gives a about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a ING Toyota
> newsgroup. Get the out.

One ricemobile owner dissing another ricemobile of a different flavor.
That right there is FUNNY.

Sharx35

"hls" <hls@nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:AbSdnfXKY7BVcS7XnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>
>
>>
>> Who gives a about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a ING Toyota
>> newsgroup. Get the out.
>
> Did the next to the last man on earth die and leave you his position of
> authority?

Indeed, yes. The rest of you are pansy, Honda-driving *******.

Sharx35

"Steve" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message
news8OdnUbeqeeYay7XnZ2dnUVZ_qSdnZ2d@texas.net...
> Sharx35 wrote:
>>
>> "Otis" <rev_otis_mcnatt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:46e0adf3-8842-4fee-8280-b338ff4c231d@m11g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>>> General questions which is why I included five NG's.
>>>
>>> I've actually had the car for almost a year (bought 9-25-08).
>>>
>>> The car had a mild steering wheel shimmy at 60-70 mph that
>>> I noticed driving it home from the dealership the day I bought it.
>>> The car had not been sitting on the lot long ( a week or so, being
>>> recently delivered), so I doubt there were flat spots on the tires.
>>> I decided to let it go and forget about it. Still, you don't expect
>>> this with a brand new car with six miles on it and equipped with
>>> Michelins. The shimmy pretty much stayed, but as I said,
>>> it is mild. I rotated the tires at about 6500 miles a couple of
>>> months ago, which is when the little Honda Maintenance Minder
>>> told me to (cross to front as the manual said).
>>>
>>> Since then, I've noticed that, along with the usual shimmy, it gets
>>> a good deal worse when I press the brake at highway speeds.
>>> I doubt very seriously that the rotors are warped, but that the wheels
>>> were somehow not completely balanced at the factory. And maybe
>>> crossing the tires at rotation made the effect worse. That's my
>>> guess.
>>> I took the car out to the dlership today, explained, and the guy
>>> wanted
>>> to check the brakes (he said three hours for some reason) and possibly
>>> *turn* the rotors. Why? I've never had rotors turned in my life;
>>> if they
>>> got too grooved I'd just replace them. Considering the time, and his
>>> talking about turning rotors, I decided to hold off for now. Do you
>>> think
>>> I should take the car in and have them at least check the balance
>>> on the wheels (free till the 1 year anniversary of purchase)? I could
>>> just see those guys working on the car, and driving off with it
>>> *worse*
>>> than before. I've had this happen occasionally over the years.
>>>
>>> And a-n-o-t-h-e-r thing.....
>>>
>>> I was recently talking casually to a guy who runs a body shop. We
>>> were near my Accord and he immediately mentioned that the gap
>>> between the hood and fender on the left was not the same as the
>>> corresponding gap on the right side of the hood. And sure enough,
>>> it wasn't, and very noticeable even though I never noticed. He said
>>> that was very unusual for Honda and even asked me if the car had
>>> been wrecked. Pic link below. There is sunlight reflection a
>>> little
>>> on the left gap, but you should still be able to see it. The gap on
>>> left is noticeably bigger than the one on the right. The hood
>>> opens and closes nicely and everything seems tight and right,
>>> but it does look kind of bad. What do you guys think? Should
>>> I complain to Honda about it? Thanks a lot.
>>>
>>> http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/t...t=GEDC0178.jpg
>>
>> Who gives a about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a ING Toyota
>> newsgroup. Get the out.
>
> One ricemobile owner dissing another ricemobile of a different flavor.
> That right there is FUNNY.
>

In these parts, Hondas are the favorite vehicles of Asian gang members.

Elmo P. Shagnasty

In article <KIRsm.45601$PH1.17099@edtnps82>,
"Sharx35" <sharx35@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Who gives a about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a ING Toyota
> newsgroup.

Ah. Toyota ricemobiles only.

Gotcha.

Elmo P. Shagnasty

In article <xXTsm.44417$Db2.1666@edtnps83>,
"Sharx35" <sharx35@hotmail.com> wrote:

> "hls" <hls@nospam.nix> wrote in message
> news:AbSdnfXKY7BVcS7XnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Who gives a about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a ING Toyota
> >> newsgroup. Get the out.
> >
> > Did the next to the last man on earth die and leave you his position of
> > authority?
>
> Indeed, yes. The rest of you are pansy, Honda-driving *******.

....says the ricemobile driver Sharx.

Timothy J. Lee

In article <ziCsm.180519$O23.92550@newsfe11.iad>,
dsi1 <dsi1@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote:
>How could it be a wrecked Honda? You got it new. If you're worried about
>this, the body-fender guy should be able to tell if it's been in a
>accident pretty easily. Nice looking car though...

New cars sometimes get damaged and sent to local auto body repair shops
for repair.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

dsi1

Timothy J. Lee wrote:
> In article <ziCsm.180519$O23.92550@newsfe11.iad>,
> dsi1 <dsi1@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote:
>> How could it be a wrecked Honda? You got it new. If you're worried about
>> this, the body-fender guy should be able to tell if it's been in a
>> accident pretty easily. Nice looking car though...
>
> New cars sometimes get damaged and sent to local auto body repair shops
> for repair.
>

That's a bummer! I guess that would be a dirty little secret of the
automobile industry.

jim beam

On 09/18/2009 11:23 AM, Steve wrote:
> Observer wrote:
>
>>
>> Yeah but when you replace tires, a lot of shops use air tools. I
>> don't recall any checking the tires with a torque wrench. I do agree
>> with another poster that many shops over torque.
>
> Standard practice these days is to snug the bolts with an air wrench and
> a torque-limit stick, then do the final torque-down with a torque wrench.
>
> Actually most shops have been doing that for 10+ years now. Time flies.
>
>
> With my own cars in my own garage, I just use my air wrench because I
> have a very good feel for the correct torque with that wrench at the air
> line pressure setting I run. Every so often I check myself with a torque
> wrench and I'm never off by more than a couple of ft-lb. But you can't
> do that in a shop where you grab a different air wrench every time or
> you change a tire. Also most of my cars are old enough to be rear-drives
> with integral hub-rotor assemblies instead of "top hat" rotors that
> slide over the wheel studs like FWD cars. They are far less sensitive to
> over-torquing because the hub/rotor assembly is so much beefier and
> doesn't have an alignment issue if you torque one stud/nut down too hard
> before the other side gets torqued.

indeed - one of the reasons the heavier more powerful accord didn't
transition to that style of disk for years after the civic did.

jim beam

On 09/18/2009 01:23 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> On 09/18/2009 01:38 AM, dsi1 wrote:
>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>> it's extremely rare for honda rotors to actually warp. it is however
>>>> extremely common for surface rust and incorrect torque procedure to
>>>> create symptoms /like/ warping.
>>>>
>>>> solution: clean the disk and wheel interface of rust. apply a little
>>>> antiseize. re-bolt the wheel with a two or more stage torque process,
>>>> using a torque wrench.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've never owned a Honda so I defer to your expertise - all the cars
>>> I've owned had the standard warping rotors.
>>
>> it's probably for the reasons i said. try the scrape, anti-seize and
>> torque wrench solution.
>>
>>
>>> OTOH, I've never had a car
>>> that was sensitive to rust on the wheel hubs.
>>
>> the two are connected. seriously, it's very unusual for the brake disk
>> iron to actually warp.
>>
>
> That brake rotors don't warp is an interesting idea that I've not heard
> before. What happens to me is that heavy braking, such as when slowing
> down at the bottom of a hill, will tend to cause an oscillating feedback
> at the steering wheel.

classic symptoms. google the honda groups for past discussion and my
experience before and after wheel shop work.


>
> Hopefully, you're right and I've been seriously misinformed, after all,
> it's cheaper to wire-brush wheel hubs than to machine them. Will try
> this - thanks!

use a flat scraper. don't forget the inside of the wheels and the
antiseize. and don't use too much, just a little to color the surface
where the disk and wheel touch only.


>
>>
>>> Does this happen mostly
>>> with steel wheels or alloy wheels?
>>
>> it's more noticeable with steel..
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Those grease monkeys sure do like to over-torque those wheel nuts!
>>