Saab Complaint
 

Less than 11,000 miles on a 2000 9-3 coupe.

SECOND catastrophic freeway blowout in six months. Both quick
and dangerous.

NEW Michelin tires have/had 11,000 miles on them. The first
blowout occurred at only 5500 miles. The Dealer has refused to
deal with the issue.

OnStar failed to work.

I had to literally risk my life changing my tire on the freeway.

I lost an important client because of this.

Everything on this car costs double what Hondas and Toyotas cost.
I see no added value, but lots of added risk and hassle. Tires
are one of the simpler quality items for an Auto Maker to get
right. If Saab puts bubblegum tires on their cars without
noticing; I can hardly wait to see what they didn't 'notice'
next.

***

All this is not just expensive or unacceptable. It is criminal.

No car, no matter how intelligently designed and built, is worth
this. I paid extra for a Saab, precisely so I would not face
problems like this.

Today I would trade this Saab straight across for a comparable
Honda Civic that would have gotten me to my appointment on time.

So would you.


milton brewster

Re: Saab Complaint
 

On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 20:42:09 GMT, milt brewster <milt73@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> Everything on this car costs double what Hondas and Toyotas cost.

What is your intention here, to start a cross-brand flamewar?

> I see no added value, but lots of added risk and hassle. Tires
> are one of the simpler quality items for an Auto Maker to get
> right.

Thought you said they were Michelin. Didn't know Saab made tires.

> All this is not just expensive or unacceptable. It is criminal.

What was the cause of the blowout? Did you have your pressures
set properly? Does your car have an alignment problem? Are you
trying to solve the problem, or just complain about it?

> No car, no matter how intelligently designed and built, is worth
> this. I paid extra for a Saab, precisely so I would not face
> problems like this.

What is the cause of this atypical problem with your particular
car?

> Today I would trade this Saab straight across for a comparable
> Honda Civic that would have gotten me to my appointment on time.

OK.

> So would you.

I would? Why would I want to get to your appointment; I'm thinking we
wouldn't enjoy each other's company very much.

Dave Hinz

Re: Saab Complaint
 

On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 20:42:09 GMT, milt brewster <milt73@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> Everything on this car costs double what Hondas and Toyotas cost.

What is your intention here, to start a cross-brand flamewar?

> I see no added value, but lots of added risk and hassle. Tires
> are one of the simpler quality items for an Auto Maker to get
> right.

Thought you said they were Michelin. Didn't know Saab made tires.

> All this is not just expensive or unacceptable. It is criminal.

What was the cause of the blowout? Did you have your pressures
set properly? Does your car have an alignment problem? Are you
trying to solve the problem, or just complain about it?

> No car, no matter how intelligently designed and built, is worth
> this. I paid extra for a Saab, precisely so I would not face
> problems like this.

What is the cause of this atypical problem with your particular
car?

> Today I would trade this Saab straight across for a comparable
> Honda Civic that would have gotten me to my appointment on time.

OK.

> So would you.

I would? Why would I want to get to your appointment; I'm thinking we
wouldn't enjoy each other's company very much.

Dave Hinz

Re: Saab Complaint
 

milt brewster wrote:
> Less than 11,000 miles on a 2000 9-3 coupe.
>
> SECOND catastrophic freeway blowout in six months. Both quick
> and dangerous.
>
> NEW Michelin tires have/had 11,000 miles on them. The first
> blowout occurred at only 5500 miles. The Dealer has refused to
> deal with the issue.

How are blowouts Saab's fault???

Bad luck I think.


> OnStar failed to work.
>
> I had to literally risk my life changing my tire on the freeway.

Poor baby!


> I lost an important client because of this.

How long did it take you to change a wheel?


> Everything on this car costs double what Hondas and Toyotas cost.
> I see no added value, but lots of added risk and hassle. Tires
> are one of the simpler quality items for an Auto Maker to get
> right. If Saab puts bubblegum tires on their cars without
> noticing; I can hardly wait to see what they didn't 'notice'
> next.

Sell it quick.


> Today I would trade this Saab straight across for a comparable
> Honda Civic that would have gotten me to my appointment on time.

Which *never* suffer blowouts.

--
Grunff

Re: Saab Complaint
 

milt brewster wrote:
> Less than 11,000 miles on a 2000 9-3 coupe.
>
> SECOND catastrophic freeway blowout in six months. Both quick
> and dangerous.
>
> NEW Michelin tires have/had 11,000 miles on them. The first
> blowout occurred at only 5500 miles. The Dealer has refused to
> deal with the issue.

How are blowouts Saab's fault???

Bad luck I think.


> OnStar failed to work.
>
> I had to literally risk my life changing my tire on the freeway.

Poor baby!


> I lost an important client because of this.

How long did it take you to change a wheel?


> Everything on this car costs double what Hondas and Toyotas cost.
> I see no added value, but lots of added risk and hassle. Tires
> are one of the simpler quality items for an Auto Maker to get
> right. If Saab puts bubblegum tires on their cars without
> noticing; I can hardly wait to see what they didn't 'notice'
> next.

Sell it quick.


> Today I would trade this Saab straight across for a comparable
> Honda Civic that would have gotten me to my appointment on time.

Which *never* suffer blowouts.

--
Grunff

Re: Saab Complaint
 

milt brewster wrote:
>
> Less than 11,000 miles on a 2000 9-3 coupe.
>
> SECOND catastrophic freeway blowout in six months. Both quick
> and dangerous.
>
> NEW Michelin tires have/had 11,000 miles on them. The first
> blowout occurred at only 5500 miles. The Dealer has refused to
> deal with the issue.
>
> OnStar failed to work.
>
> I had to literally risk my life changing my tire on the freeway.
>
> I lost an important client because of this.
>
> Everything on this car costs double what Hondas and Toyotas cost.
> I see no added value, but lots of added risk and hassle. Tires
> are one of the simpler quality items for an Auto Maker to get
> right. If Saab puts bubblegum tires on their cars without
> noticing; I can hardly wait to see what they didn't 'notice'
> next.

But what has all this to do with Saab? Michelin is a top brand tire.
A blow out is a rare but possible risk, possibly caused by prior
damage to the tire. Onstar is a communication system that has little
to do with the car and is only fitted in some markets.

Re: Saab Complaint
 

milt brewster wrote:
>
> Less than 11,000 miles on a 2000 9-3 coupe.
>
> SECOND catastrophic freeway blowout in six months. Both quick
> and dangerous.
>
> NEW Michelin tires have/had 11,000 miles on them. The first
> blowout occurred at only 5500 miles. The Dealer has refused to
> deal with the issue.
>
> OnStar failed to work.
>
> I had to literally risk my life changing my tire on the freeway.
>
> I lost an important client because of this.
>
> Everything on this car costs double what Hondas and Toyotas cost.
> I see no added value, but lots of added risk and hassle. Tires
> are one of the simpler quality items for an Auto Maker to get
> right. If Saab puts bubblegum tires on their cars without
> noticing; I can hardly wait to see what they didn't 'notice'
> next.

But what has all this to do with Saab? Michelin is a top brand tire.
A blow out is a rare but possible risk, possibly caused by prior
damage to the tire. Onstar is a communication system that has little
to do with the car and is only fitted in some markets.

Re: Saab Complaint
 

In alt.autos.saab milt brewster <milt73@sonic.net> wrote:
> Today I would trade this Saab straight across for a comparable
> Honda Civic that would have gotten me to my appointment on time.

A comparable Honda Civic? Tell ya what. Pick it out and I'll deliver
it and we'll trade. Where are you located?

-klaus

Re: Saab Complaint
 

In alt.autos.saab milt brewster <milt73@sonic.net> wrote:
> Today I would trade this Saab straight across for a comparable
> Honda Civic that would have gotten me to my appointment on time.

A comparable Honda Civic? Tell ya what. Pick it out and I'll deliver
it and we'll trade. Where are you located?

-klaus

Re: Saab Complaint
 

"milt brewster" <milt73@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.19c2951e57a2b84989db2@news.sonic.net...
>
> Less than 11,000 miles on a 2000 9-3 coupe.
>
> SECOND catastrophic freeway blowout in six months. Both quick
> and dangerous.
>
> NEW Michelin tires have/had 11,000 miles on them. The first
> blowout occurred at only 5500 miles. The Dealer has refused to
> deal with the issue.

ROTFL!!!

As we all know, Michelin is good at making overpriced and mediocre (at best)
tires, but even these should not be blowing out for no reason. My picks
would be:

a. improper inflation
b. prior damage to the tire (cut or hit sideways causing damage to steel
belts inside)
c. hitting a pothole with a low-profile tire/large rim.

Finally, 11,000 miles is not "NEW". But, IIRC, even OEM tires have
warranty, so talk to the almighty Michelin to give you new tires and cover
possible damages to the car IF in fact the reason was none of the above.

People like you do not deserve to drive fine cars like this. Get your Civic
already and go cry somewhere else.

Cheers,

Pete

Re: Saab Complaint
 

"milt brewster" <milt73@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.19c2951e57a2b84989db2@news.sonic.net...
>
> Less than 11,000 miles on a 2000 9-3 coupe.
>
> SECOND catastrophic freeway blowout in six months. Both quick
> and dangerous.
>
> NEW Michelin tires have/had 11,000 miles on them. The first
> blowout occurred at only 5500 miles. The Dealer has refused to
> deal with the issue.

ROTFL!!!

As we all know, Michelin is good at making overpriced and mediocre (at best)
tires, but even these should not be blowing out for no reason. My picks
would be:

a. improper inflation
b. prior damage to the tire (cut or hit sideways causing damage to steel
belts inside)
c. hitting a pothole with a low-profile tire/large rim.

Finally, 11,000 miles is not "NEW". But, IIRC, even OEM tires have
warranty, so talk to the almighty Michelin to give you new tires and cover
possible damages to the car IF in fact the reason was none of the above.

People like you do not deserve to drive fine cars like this. Get your Civic
already and go cry somewhere else.

Cheers,

Pete

Re: Saab Complaint
 

On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 20:42:09 GMT, milt brewster <milt73@sonic.net>
wrote:

>No car, no matter how intelligently designed and built, is worth
>this. I paid extra for a Saab, precisely so I would not face
>problems like this.

Then you are a fool. What makes you think that expensive cars are
more reliable than regular cars? They're not.

Re: Saab Complaint
 

On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 20:42:09 GMT, milt brewster <milt73@sonic.net>
wrote:

>No car, no matter how intelligently designed and built, is worth
>this. I paid extra for a Saab, precisely so I would not face
>problems like this.

Then you are a fool. What makes you think that expensive cars are
more reliable than regular cars? They're not.

Re: Saab Complaint
 

Why would Onstar go off automatically after a tire fault? I thought the
directions state specifically and quite clearly it only calls in when
airbags deploy? Or is it implied when pushing the Onstar button nothing
happened? That just seems to be a weird concatenation of what, to my best
knowledge, are very rare events. I usually reserve the term "terrible bad
luck" for injury accidents, thus I think this has to befiled under the "huge
annoyance" qualifier.

....pablo

Re: Saab Complaint
 

Why would Onstar go off automatically after a tire fault? I thought the
directions state specifically and quite clearly it only calls in when
airbags deploy? Or is it implied when pushing the Onstar button nothing
happened? That just seems to be a weird concatenation of what, to my best
knowledge, are very rare events. I usually reserve the term "terrible bad
luck" for injury accidents, thus I think this has to befiled under the "huge
annoyance" qualifier.

....pablo

Re: Saab Complaint
 

On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 20:42:09 GMT, milt brewster <milt73@sonic.net>
wrote:

>
>Less than 11,000 miles on a 2000 9-3 coupe.

I had a blowout on my pirelli on my 2002 9-3 hatch about a month after
I got it. I had it replaced. A few months ago (about 9 months later)
the replacement Pirelli developed a bump and a split.

All other 3 tires work fine. I think it may be aligned poorly,
putting too much pressure on that tire.

I'll have them take a look.

Stay safe.

Re: Saab Complaint
 

On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 20:42:09 GMT, milt brewster <milt73@sonic.net>
wrote:

>
>Less than 11,000 miles on a 2000 9-3 coupe.

I had a blowout on my pirelli on my 2002 9-3 hatch about a month after
I got it. I had it replaced. A few months ago (about 9 months later)
the replacement Pirelli developed a bump and a split.

All other 3 tires work fine. I think it may be aligned poorly,
putting too much pressure on that tire.

I'll have them take a look.

Stay safe.

Re: Saab Complaint
 

In article <vli4uf6if2us88@news.supernews.com>,
"pablo" <pabloNOSPAMsimplyhombreDOTnet> wrote:

> Why would Onstar go off automatically after a tire fault?

I'm not sure he was saying that. I understood him to be saying simply
that OnStar didn't work--which means he couldn't get help, nothing more.

I don't think he said anything about he thought it was supposed to
automatically phone home with a blowout.

Re: Saab Complaint
 

In article <vli4uf6if2us88@news.supernews.com>,
"pablo" <pabloNOSPAMsimplyhombreDOTnet> wrote:

> Why would Onstar go off automatically after a tire fault?

I'm not sure he was saying that. I understood him to be saying simply
that OnStar didn't work--which means he couldn't get help, nothing more.

I don't think he said anything about he thought it was supposed to
automatically phone home with a blowout.

Re: Saab Complaint
 

Looks like YOU didn't do your homework. It's just like buying a Lincoln
Navigator instead of a Ford Explorer. (or is it an Expedition?) Same truck
different badge. One just costs a WHOLE lot more.

John

Everything on this car costs double what Hondas and Toyotas cost.
> I see no added value, but lots of added risk and hassle. Tires
> are one of the simpler quality items for an Auto Maker to get
> right. If Saab puts bubblegum tires on their cars without
> noticing; I can hardly wait to see what they didn't 'notice'
> next.
>
> ***
>
> All this is not just expensive or unacceptable. It is criminal.
>
> No car, no matter how intelligently designed and built, is worth
> this. I paid extra for a Saab, precisely so I would not face
> problems like this.
>
> Today I would trade this Saab straight across for a comparable
> Honda Civic that would have gotten me to my appointment on time.
>

Re: Saab Complaint
 

Looks like YOU didn't do your homework. It's just like buying a Lincoln
Navigator instead of a Ford Explorer. (or is it an Expedition?) Same truck
different badge. One just costs a WHOLE lot more.

John

Everything on this car costs double what Hondas and Toyotas cost.
> I see no added value, but lots of added risk and hassle. Tires
> are one of the simpler quality items for an Auto Maker to get
> right. If Saab puts bubblegum tires on their cars without
> noticing; I can hardly wait to see what they didn't 'notice'
> next.
>
> ***
>
> All this is not just expensive or unacceptable. It is criminal.
>
> No car, no matter how intelligently designed and built, is worth
> this. I paid extra for a Saab, precisely so I would not face
> problems like this.
>
> Today I would trade this Saab straight across for a comparable
> Honda Civic that would have gotten me to my appointment on time.
>

Re: Saab Complaint
 

milt brewster wrote:

> Less than 11,000 miles on a 2000 9-3 coupe.
>
> SECOND catastrophic freeway blowout in six months. Both quick
> and dangerous.
>
> NEW Michelin tires have/had 11,000 miles on them. The first
> blowout occurred at only 5500 miles. The Dealer has refused to
> deal with the issue.

Find a new dealer - either it is a bad dealer or your attitude has
poisoned the relationship. At the new dealer, try to be calm, don't
exaggerate and be patient - have a two way conversation, not a screaming
match. Judging from the words you chose in this posting, this may be
difficult.


>
> OnStar failed to work.
>
> I had to literally risk my life changing my tire on the freeway.
>
> I lost an important client because of this.
>
> Everything on this car costs double what Hondas and Toyotas cost.
> I see no added value, but lots of added risk and hassle. Tires
> are one of the simpler quality items for an Auto Maker to get
> right. If Saab puts bubblegum tires on their cars without
> noticing; I can hardly wait to see what they didn't 'notice'
> next.
>
> ***
>
> All this is not just expensive or unacceptable. It is criminal.
>
> No car, no matter how intelligently designed and built, is worth
> this. I paid extra for a Saab, precisely so I would not face
> problems like this.
>
> Today I would trade this Saab straight across for a comparable
> Honda Civic that would have gotten me to my appointment on time.
>
> So would you.
>
>
> milton brewster
>
>

Re: Saab Complaint
 

milt brewster wrote:

> Less than 11,000 miles on a 2000 9-3 coupe.
>
> SECOND catastrophic freeway blowout in six months. Both quick
> and dangerous.
>
> NEW Michelin tires have/had 11,000 miles on them. The first
> blowout occurred at only 5500 miles. The Dealer has refused to
> deal with the issue.

Find a new dealer - either it is a bad dealer or your attitude has
poisoned the relationship. At the new dealer, try to be calm, don't
exaggerate and be patient - have a two way conversation, not a screaming
match. Judging from the words you chose in this posting, this may be
difficult.


>
> OnStar failed to work.
>
> I had to literally risk my life changing my tire on the freeway.
>
> I lost an important client because of this.
>
> Everything on this car costs double what Hondas and Toyotas cost.
> I see no added value, but lots of added risk and hassle. Tires
> are one of the simpler quality items for an Auto Maker to get
> right. If Saab puts bubblegum tires on their cars without
> noticing; I can hardly wait to see what they didn't 'notice'
> next.
>
> ***
>
> All this is not just expensive or unacceptable. It is criminal.
>
> No car, no matter how intelligently designed and built, is worth
> this. I paid extra for a Saab, precisely so I would not face
> problems like this.
>
> Today I would trade this Saab straight across for a comparable
> Honda Civic that would have gotten me to my appointment on time.
>
> So would you.
>
>
> milton brewster
>
>

Re: Saab Complaint
 

In article <MPG.19c2951e57a2b84989db2@news.sonic.net>, milt brewster
<milt73@sonic.net> wrote:

> Less than 11,000 miles on a 2000 9-3 coupe.
>
> SECOND catastrophic freeway blowout in six months. Both quick
> and dangerous.
>
> NEW Michelin tires have/had 11,000 miles on them. The first
> blowout occurred at only 5500 miles. The Dealer has refused to
> deal with the issue.
>
> OnStar failed to work.
>
> I had to literally risk my life changing my tire on the freeway.
>
> I lost an important client because of this.
>
> Everything on this car costs double what Hondas and Toyotas cost.
> I see no added value, but lots of added risk and hassle. Tires
> are one of the simpler quality items for an Auto Maker to get
> right. If Saab puts bubblegum tires on their cars without
> noticing; I can hardly wait to see what they didn't 'notice'
> next.
>
> ***
>
> All this is not just expensive or unacceptable. It is criminal.
>
> No car, no matter how intelligently designed and built, is worth
> this. I paid extra for a Saab, precisely so I would not face
> problems like this.
>
> Today I would trade this Saab straight across for a comparable
> Honda Civic that would have gotten me to my appointment on time.
>
> So would you.
>
>
> milton brewster
>
Stop it! Stop it! Please stop it. No more Saab stories, Please.

Tom

Re: Saab Complaint
 

In article <MPG.19c2951e57a2b84989db2@news.sonic.net>, milt brewster
<milt73@sonic.net> wrote:

> Less than 11,000 miles on a 2000 9-3 coupe.
>
> SECOND catastrophic freeway blowout in six months. Both quick
> and dangerous.
>
> NEW Michelin tires have/had 11,000 miles on them. The first
> blowout occurred at only 5500 miles. The Dealer has refused to
> deal with the issue.
>
> OnStar failed to work.
>
> I had to literally risk my life changing my tire on the freeway.
>
> I lost an important client because of this.
>
> Everything on this car costs double what Hondas and Toyotas cost.
> I see no added value, but lots of added risk and hassle. Tires
> are one of the simpler quality items for an Auto Maker to get
> right. If Saab puts bubblegum tires on their cars without
> noticing; I can hardly wait to see what they didn't 'notice'
> next.
>
> ***
>
> All this is not just expensive or unacceptable. It is criminal.
>
> No car, no matter how intelligently designed and built, is worth
> this. I paid extra for a Saab, precisely so I would not face
> problems like this.
>
> Today I would trade this Saab straight across for a comparable
> Honda Civic that would have gotten me to my appointment on time.
>
> So would you.
>
>
> milton brewster
>
Stop it! Stop it! Please stop it. No more Saab stories, Please.

Tom

Re: Saab Complaint
 

> Stop it! Stop it! Please stop it. No more Saab stories, Please.

please, please, no more cross posting, please.

-------------------------------------------
MH
'72 97 '77 96 '78 95 '79 96
http://go.to/saab96

Re: Saab Complaint
 

> Stop it! Stop it! Please stop it. No more Saab stories, Please.

please, please, no more cross posting, please.

-------------------------------------------
MH
'72 97 '77 96 '78 95 '79 96
http://go.to/saab96

Re: Saab Complaint
 

In article <bjat1j$h21m6$1@ID-134476.news.uni-berlin.de>,
davehinz@spamcop.net says...
> On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 20:42:09 GMT, milt brewster <milt73@sonic.net> wrote:
> >
> > Everything on this car costs double what Hondas and Toyotas cost.
>
> What is your intention here, to start a cross-brand flamewar?

No.

It was my intention to report a serious problem with an expensive
new car that should not have had a serious problem, in a public
forum where other people would read it and think about this
experience before they make THEIR expensive new car purchases.

I expected most of the snippy comments I've seen here. I was a
Saab enthusiast, too; but that doesn't mean Saabs are perfect, or
that the Company that builds them are above doing things that are
worth complaining about.

I still made my point: ANYONE thinking about buying a Saab
should consider whether they want to have TWO blowouts in the
space of five months in their expensive new car.

****

Saab has equipped a lot of their cars in the USA with Michelin
tires that might very well be faulty, as Ford found a few years
ago with their SUVs. If Usenet newsgroups are worth anything at
all, they are worth publicizing potential recall problems like
this.

As for the rest of your post (not snipped) I don't think it's
helpful at all -- except to note that I check my tires very
carefully after my first blowout, did not hit any potholes or
make other foolish mistakes, and that you seem to be as snippy as
you think I am.

Emotional denial is the first refuge of the childish.

mb



>
> > I see no added value, but lots of added risk and hassle. Tires
> > are one of the simpler quality items for an Auto Maker to get
> > right.
>
> Thought you said they were Michelin. Didn't know Saab made tires.
>
> > All this is not just expensive or unacceptable. It is criminal.
>
> What was the cause of the blowout? Did you have your pressures
> set properly? Does your car have an alignment problem? Are you
> trying to solve the problem, or just complain about it?
>
> > No car, no matter how intelligently designed and built, is worth
> > this. I paid extra for a Saab, precisely so I would not face
> > problems like this.
>
> What is the cause of this atypical problem with your particular
> car?
>
> > Today I would trade this Saab straight across for a comparable
> > Honda Civic that would have gotten me to my appointment on time.
>
> OK.
>
> > So would you.
>
> I would? Why would I want to get to your appointment; I'm thinking we
> wouldn't enjoy each other's company very much.
>
> Dave Hinz
>
>

Re: Saab Complaint
 

In article <bjat1j$h21m6$1@ID-134476.news.uni-berlin.de>,
davehinz@spamcop.net says...
> On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 20:42:09 GMT, milt brewster <milt73@sonic.net> wrote:
> >
> > Everything on this car costs double what Hondas and Toyotas cost.
>
> What is your intention here, to start a cross-brand flamewar?

No.

It was my intention to report a serious problem with an expensive
new car that should not have had a serious problem, in a public
forum where other people would read it and think about this
experience before they make THEIR expensive new car purchases.

I expected most of the snippy comments I've seen here. I was a
Saab enthusiast, too; but that doesn't mean Saabs are perfect, or
that the Company that builds them are above doing things that are
worth complaining about.

I still made my point: ANYONE thinking about buying a Saab
should consider whether they want to have TWO blowouts in the
space of five months in their expensive new car.

****

Saab has equipped a lot of their cars in the USA with Michelin
tires that might very well be faulty, as Ford found a few years
ago with their SUVs. If Usenet newsgroups are worth anything at
all, they are worth publicizing potential recall problems like
this.

As for the rest of your post (not snipped) I don't think it's
helpful at all -- except to note that I check my tires very
carefully after my first blowout, did not hit any potholes or
make other foolish mistakes, and that you seem to be as snippy as
you think I am.

Emotional denial is the first refuge of the childish.

mb



>
> > I see no added value, but lots of added risk and hassle. Tires
> > are one of the simpler quality items for an Auto Maker to get
> > right.
>
> Thought you said they were Michelin. Didn't know Saab made tires.
>
> > All this is not just expensive or unacceptable. It is criminal.
>
> What was the cause of the blowout? Did you have your pressures
> set properly? Does your car have an alignment problem? Are you
> trying to solve the problem, or just complain about it?
>
> > No car, no matter how intelligently designed and built, is worth
> > this. I paid extra for a Saab, precisely so I would not face
> > problems like this.
>
> What is the cause of this atypical problem with your particular
> car?
>
> > Today I would trade this Saab straight across for a comparable
> > Honda Civic that would have gotten me to my appointment on time.
>
> OK.
>
> > So would you.
>
> I would? Why would I want to get to your appointment; I'm thinking we
> wouldn't enjoy each other's company very much.
>
> Dave Hinz
>
>

Re: Saab Complaint
 

In article <3F58F854.F40BE131@sizefitter.com>,
johs@sizefitter.com says...
>
>
> milt brewster wrote:
> >
> > Less than 11,000 miles on a 2000 9-3 coupe.
> >
> > SECOND catastrophic freeway blowout in six months. Both quick
> > and dangerous.
> >
> > NEW Michelin tires have/had 11,000 miles on them. The first
> > blowout occurred at only 5500 miles. The Dealer has refused to
> > deal with the issue.
> >
> > OnStar failed to work.
> >
> > I had to literally risk my life changing my tire on the freeway.
> >
> > I lost an important client because of this.
> >
> > Everything on this car costs double what Hondas and Toyotas cost.
> > I see no added value, but lots of added risk and hassle. Tires
> > are one of the simpler quality items for an Auto Maker to get
> > right. If Saab puts bubblegum tires on their cars without
> > noticing; I can hardly wait to see what they didn't 'notice'
> > next.
>
> But what has all this to do with Saab? Michelin is a top brand tire.
> A blow out is a rare but possible risk, possibly caused by prior
> damage to the tire. Onstar is a communication system that has little
> to do with the car and is only fitted in some markets.
>

Johannes, I appreciate your posts in this group over the months.

In the United States, Ford Motor Company is in a world of hurt
right now, because they 1) sold SUVs with bad tires a few years
ago, and then 2) refused to make it right. Their sales have not
recovered three years later, and Ford is losing court cases by
the bunch to very angry customers who can easily establish that
Ford knew about the problem.

While Michelin makes the tires, Saab 1) made the decision to
equip their cars with Michelins, and 2) decided to not make it
"right" with me. I suggest further, that 3) Saab knows that these
Michelins are a safety hazard and doesn't want to admit it; just
like Ford did.

From my calling around yesterday, it looks like Saab has
apparently to stiff-arm other Saab owners with tire problems as
well. This is a safety issue and it is not OK.

Michelin blowouts on new cars are apparently not rare, at least
in California. Three of five independent tire dealers volunteered
to me that their new car customers are losing between five and
ten in a hundred to blowouts over the last few years.

American Courts (not to mention the American auto marketplace)
have determined that in the United States, the Auto manufacturer
should be held partially responsible for tire problems like this,
as well as the tire manufacturer.

****

I am not looking to start a flame war here, nor am I planning to
sue Saab. However, based on my repeated experience with
blowouts now, I *definitely* would advise anyone who cares about
automobiles to look at other cars as well as Saab very carefully.
I suggest that most of them would be better off buying something
else with better mechanical and safety records.

I especially suggest Japanese auto makes, which seem to have
much, much better records these days. There is a reason why
Toyota has just passed Chrysler in US auto sales.


mb

Re: Saab Complaint
 

In article <3F58F854.F40BE131@sizefitter.com>,
johs@sizefitter.com says...
>
>
> milt brewster wrote:
> >
> > Less than 11,000 miles on a 2000 9-3 coupe.
> >
> > SECOND catastrophic freeway blowout in six months. Both quick
> > and dangerous.
> >
> > NEW Michelin tires have/had 11,000 miles on them. The first
> > blowout occurred at only 5500 miles. The Dealer has refused to
> > deal with the issue.
> >
> > OnStar failed to work.
> >
> > I had to literally risk my life changing my tire on the freeway.
> >
> > I lost an important client because of this.
> >
> > Everything on this car costs double what Hondas and Toyotas cost.
> > I see no added value, but lots of added risk and hassle. Tires
> > are one of the simpler quality items for an Auto Maker to get
> > right. If Saab puts bubblegum tires on their cars without
> > noticing; I can hardly wait to see what they didn't 'notice'
> > next.
>
> But what has all this to do with Saab? Michelin is a top brand tire.
> A blow out is a rare but possible risk, possibly caused by prior
> damage to the tire. Onstar is a communication system that has little
> to do with the car and is only fitted in some markets.
>

Johannes, I appreciate your posts in this group over the months.

In the United States, Ford Motor Company is in a world of hurt
right now, because they 1) sold SUVs with bad tires a few years
ago, and then 2) refused to make it right. Their sales have not
recovered three years later, and Ford is losing court cases by
the bunch to very angry customers who can easily establish that
Ford knew about the problem.

While Michelin makes the tires, Saab 1) made the decision to
equip their cars with Michelins, and 2) decided to not make it
"right" with me. I suggest further, that 3) Saab knows that these
Michelins are a safety hazard and doesn't want to admit it; just
like Ford did.

From my calling around yesterday, it looks like Saab has
apparently to stiff-arm other Saab owners with tire problems as
well. This is a safety issue and it is not OK.

Michelin blowouts on new cars are apparently not rare, at least
in California. Three of five independent tire dealers volunteered
to me that their new car customers are losing between five and
ten in a hundred to blowouts over the last few years.

American Courts (not to mention the American auto marketplace)
have determined that in the United States, the Auto manufacturer
should be held partially responsible for tire problems like this,
as well as the tire manufacturer.

****

I am not looking to start a flame war here, nor am I planning to
sue Saab. However, based on my repeated experience with
blowouts now, I *definitely* would advise anyone who cares about
automobiles to look at other cars as well as Saab very carefully.
I suggest that most of them would be better off buying something
else with better mechanical and safety records.

I especially suggest Japanese auto makes, which seem to have
much, much better records these days. There is a reason why
Toyota has just passed Chrysler in US auto sales.


mb

Re: Saab Complaint
 

In article <bjb183$f20$1@news.onet.pl>, escape2music@hotmail.com
says...
>
> "milt brewster" <milt73@sonic.net> wrote in message
> news:MPG.19c2951e57a2b84989db2@news.sonic.net...
> >
> > Less than 11,000 miles on a 2000 9-3 coupe.
> >
> > SECOND catastrophic freeway blowout in six months. Both quick
> > and dangerous.
> >
> > NEW Michelin tires have/had 11,000 miles on them. The first
> > blowout occurred at only 5500 miles. The Dealer has refused to
> > deal with the issue.
>
> ROTFL!!!
>
> As we all know, Michelin is good at making overpriced and mediocre (at best)
> tires, but even these should not be blowing out for no reason.

Saab apparently doesn't know that. They equip all base 2000 9-3s
with Michelins.

If this is true, then Saab is really, really at fault here, in
the same sense that Ford was at fault for the faulty Firestones
they put on their SUVs a few years ago.

> My picks would be:
>
> a. improper inflation
> b. prior damage to the tire (cut or hit sideways causing damage to steel
> belts inside)
> c. hitting a pothole with a low-profile tire/large rim.

None of the above.

> Finally, 11,000 miles is not "NEW". But, IIRC, even OEM tires have
> warranty, so talk to the almighty Michelin to give you new tires and cover
> possible damages to the car IF in fact the reason was none of the above.

No it's not. They know it, and I suspect you know it, too.

> People like you do not deserve to drive fine cars like this. Get your Civic
> already and go cry somewhere else.

Thanks for your helpful input.

>
> Cheers,
>
> Pete

I didn't make any obvious mistakes with my tires. I've been very
careful with my tires, both before my first blowout; and for the
six or seven months since, leading up to my SECOND blowout.

No, my friend; these tires are defective and Saab knows it and
won't make it right. Not just with me, but with thousands of
other drivers of new Saab 9-3s as well, if my experience is
typical.

I've learned the hard way this year that tire guarantees are not
worth much. If you have a blowout, the tire mfgr can always
claim "road damage" and simply deny all coverage. It is
impossible for the average driver to challenge that decision in
any sensible and practical way.

mb

Re: Saab Complaint
 

In article <bjb183$f20$1@news.onet.pl>, escape2music@hotmail.com
says...
>
> "milt brewster" <milt73@sonic.net> wrote in message
> news:MPG.19c2951e57a2b84989db2@news.sonic.net...
> >
> > Less than 11,000 miles on a 2000 9-3 coupe.
> >
> > SECOND catastrophic freeway blowout in six months. Both quick
> > and dangerous.
> >
> > NEW Michelin tires have/had 11,000 miles on them. The first
> > blowout occurred at only 5500 miles. The Dealer has refused to
> > deal with the issue.
>
> ROTFL!!!
>
> As we all know, Michelin is good at making overpriced and mediocre (at best)
> tires, but even these should not be blowing out for no reason.

Saab apparently doesn't know that. They equip all base 2000 9-3s
with Michelins.

If this is true, then Saab is really, really at fault here, in
the same sense that Ford was at fault for the faulty Firestones
they put on their SUVs a few years ago.

> My picks would be:
>
> a. improper inflation
> b. prior damage to the tire (cut or hit sideways causing damage to steel
> belts inside)
> c. hitting a pothole with a low-profile tire/large rim.

None of the above.

> Finally, 11,000 miles is not "NEW". But, IIRC, even OEM tires have
> warranty, so talk to the almighty Michelin to give you new tires and cover
> possible damages to the car IF in fact the reason was none of the above.

No it's not. They know it, and I suspect you know it, too.

> People like you do not deserve to drive fine cars like this. Get your Civic
> already and go cry somewhere else.

Thanks for your helpful input.

>
> Cheers,
>
> Pete

I didn't make any obvious mistakes with my tires. I've been very
careful with my tires, both before my first blowout; and for the
six or seven months since, leading up to my SECOND blowout.

No, my friend; these tires are defective and Saab knows it and
won't make it right. Not just with me, but with thousands of
other drivers of new Saab 9-3s as well, if my experience is
typical.

I've learned the hard way this year that tire guarantees are not
worth much. If you have a blowout, the tire mfgr can always
claim "road damage" and simply deny all coverage. It is
impossible for the average driver to challenge that decision in
any sensible and practical way.

mb

Re: Saab Complaint
 

In article <78b9fff247ea4abaceca0edf45d1efd7@news.teranews.co m>,
hitmanlv@goldust.com says...
> On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 20:42:09 GMT, milt brewster <milt73@sonic.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Less than 11,000 miles on a 2000 9-3 coupe.
>
> I had a blowout on my pirelli on my 2002 9-3 hatch about a month after
> I got it. I had it replaced. A few months ago (about 9 months later)
> the replacement Pirelli developed a bump and a split.
>
> All other 3 tires work fine. I think it may be aligned poorly,
> putting too much pressure on that tire.
>
> I'll have them take a look.
>
> Stay safe.

---

Exactly.

If you own a Saab, check into your tire situation.

Out West, we need our cars. We need to NOT risk our lives when we
experience blowouts in freeway traffic, or on extended road
trips between cities. We need Auto manufacturers to take these
problems seirously.

That's one reason why nobody drives quirky, fun little italian
cars here in the West any more. That's one reason why lots of
people here drive boring but reliable Japanese cars here instead.

Happy as I was with my 2000 9-3, I found that the Saab and
Michelin companies did not make things right with me. They
refused even to discuss it.

Based on my quick, brutal experiences, I will never do business
with either company ever again.


mb

Re: Saab Complaint
 

In article <78b9fff247ea4abaceca0edf45d1efd7@news.teranews.co m>,
hitmanlv@goldust.com says...
> On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 20:42:09 GMT, milt brewster <milt73@sonic.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Less than 11,000 miles on a 2000 9-3 coupe.
>
> I had a blowout on my pirelli on my 2002 9-3 hatch about a month after
> I got it. I had it replaced. A few months ago (about 9 months later)
> the replacement Pirelli developed a bump and a split.
>
> All other 3 tires work fine. I think it may be aligned poorly,
> putting too much pressure on that tire.
>
> I'll have them take a look.
>
> Stay safe.

---

Exactly.

If you own a Saab, check into your tire situation.

Out West, we need our cars. We need to NOT risk our lives when we
experience blowouts in freeway traffic, or on extended road
trips between cities. We need Auto manufacturers to take these
problems seirously.

That's one reason why nobody drives quirky, fun little italian
cars here in the West any more. That's one reason why lots of
people here drive boring but reliable Japanese cars here instead.

Happy as I was with my 2000 9-3, I found that the Saab and
Michelin companies did not make things right with me. They
refused even to discuss it.

Based on my quick, brutal experiences, I will never do business
with either company ever again.


mb

Re: Saab Complaint
 

In article <20030906035716.10780.00000512@mb-m29.aol.com>,
lkrz@aol.comnospam says...
> >I had a blowout on my pirelli on my 2002 9-3 hatch about a month after
> >I got it. I had it replaced. A few months ago (about 9 months later)
> >the replacement Pirelli developed a bump and a split.
>
> I had Pirellis on a Lincoln Mark VIII. OKI tires but didn't last long. They
> seemed to be prone to finding pieces of metal to run over.
>
> >All other 3 tires work fine. I think it may be aligned poorly,
> >putting too much pressure on that tire.
>
> Next time you have it out on the highway for a bit, when you stop, walk around
> the car and feel the sidewalls. See if the problem tire is noticeably hotter
> than the others. If it is, report that to the tire guy.

Laura, this is a good, helpful tip. I wind up doing this
casually, every couple of weeks or so and didn't detect anything.
.... it still is important to point out as a great driver-check.

Posters here newsgroup ought to report some other helpful advice
like this.

*) Which tire brands work best on Saabs?
*) Which tire brands do you stay away from?
*) How much should a new tire cost for a Saab?
My dealer charged me $275 for a replacement Michelin.
*) What about wheel rims, suspension systems and the like?
*) As a Saab owner, what simple checks do you perform
on your tires and suspension system, and how often?
*) How do you deal with your dealers and tire companies
when you have a problem? Any phone numbers? What
did you say to them? How did they resolve the issue?
*) Are you comfortable with the Saab's resolution of
your complaint?

In fact; this group should maintain a FAQ with simple,
practical information like this, for Saab owners and for people
looking to buy Saabs. As fat as our owners' manuals are; Saab
still doesn't tell us enough about our cars.

mb

Re: Saab Complaint
 

In article <20030906035716.10780.00000512@mb-m29.aol.com>,
lkrz@aol.comnospam says...
> >I had a blowout on my pirelli on my 2002 9-3 hatch about a month after
> >I got it. I had it replaced. A few months ago (about 9 months later)
> >the replacement Pirelli developed a bump and a split.
>
> I had Pirellis on a Lincoln Mark VIII. OKI tires but didn't last long. They
> seemed to be prone to finding pieces of metal to run over.
>
> >All other 3 tires work fine. I think it may be aligned poorly,
> >putting too much pressure on that tire.
>
> Next time you have it out on the highway for a bit, when you stop, walk around
> the car and feel the sidewalls. See if the problem tire is noticeably hotter
> than the others. If it is, report that to the tire guy.

Laura, this is a good, helpful tip. I wind up doing this
casually, every couple of weeks or so and didn't detect anything.
.... it still is important to point out as a great driver-check.

Posters here newsgroup ought to report some other helpful advice
like this.

*) Which tire brands work best on Saabs?
*) Which tire brands do you stay away from?
*) How much should a new tire cost for a Saab?
My dealer charged me $275 for a replacement Michelin.
*) What about wheel rims, suspension systems and the like?
*) As a Saab owner, what simple checks do you perform
on your tires and suspension system, and how often?
*) How do you deal with your dealers and tire companies
when you have a problem? Any phone numbers? What
did you say to them? How did they resolve the issue?
*) Are you comfortable with the Saab's resolution of
your complaint?

In fact; this group should maintain a FAQ with simple,
practical information like this, for Saab owners and for people
looking to buy Saabs. As fat as our owners' manuals are; Saab
still doesn't tell us enough about our cars.

mb

Re: Saab Complaint
 

In article <BB7F542C.9514%pjgh@blueyonder.co.uk>,
pjgh@blueyonder.co.uk says...

> in article MPG.19c2951e57a2b84989db2@news.sonic.net, milt brewster at
> milt73@sonic.net wrote on 05/09/2003 21:42:
>
> > Less than 11,000 miles on a 2000 9-3 coupe.
> >
> > SECOND catastrophic freeway blowout in six months. Both quick
> > and dangerous.
> >
> > NEW Michelin tires have/had 11,000 miles on them. The first
> > blowout occurred at only 5500 miles. The Dealer has refused to
> > deal with the issue.
>
> Tyres are tyres. What does this have to do with Saab? If you're not happy
> with Michelin, then buy another brand. I have Michelins on the front and
> Avons (my old front set) on the rear. They seem fine.

Good for you. I hope your luck continues. Nobody should have two
blowouts on the freeway in six months, driving a new car. Not
even the people in this thread who have been frankly insulting.

Sometimes tires are not made well. Tire failures are always a
safety issue, and American Tire Manufacturers are supposed to
recall tire batches that do not meet manufacturing standards.

From calling around yesterday, I find that around five Michelins
are experiencing blowouts out of a hundred on new small cars --
this is very high, and Michelin should recall these tires. Saab
owners should know that Michelins are failing catastrophically in
high numbers like this. Because it is a product safety hazard,
the Saab Company (GM) should replace these tires.


> Were yours at the correct pressure? When did you last check the pressures?
> It's one of those things, along with fluids, that should be checked on a
> regular basis to ensure that the car is running as per the manufacturer's
> intention and to keep you safe.

I am very careful with my tires and made no obvious errors like
this. I hit no potholes. This was not "road damage," as US Tire
mfgrs like to claim.

>
> If you've had two blow-outs so far, I'd suggest you're running them more
> than a little over-pressure.

Good guess, but nope. I check my tires carefully and had no
reason to suspect this was going to happen.

>
> > Today I would trade this Saab straight across for a comparable
> > Honda Civic ...
>
> Is there a comparable Honda Civic?
>

No, and that's my point here. The Honda Civic sells for 60% of
the cost of a 9-3 Saab, yet the Civic has a better safety and
mechanical record -- and certainly has better customer care.
While I like to drive a car that's fun, I MUST drive a car that's
safe and reliable.

Saab should be purple with embarrassment that a car like the
Honda Civic can outperform it.

And I meant what I said: If somebody made it easy for me, I'd
trade my Saab for a comparable Japanese car this week. I need a
car that is safe and reliable.


mb

Re: Saab Complaint
 

In article <BB7F542C.9514%pjgh@blueyonder.co.uk>,
pjgh@blueyonder.co.uk says...

> in article MPG.19c2951e57a2b84989db2@news.sonic.net, milt brewster at
> milt73@sonic.net wrote on 05/09/2003 21:42:
>
> > Less than 11,000 miles on a 2000 9-3 coupe.
> >
> > SECOND catastrophic freeway blowout in six months. Both quick
> > and dangerous.
> >
> > NEW Michelin tires have/had 11,000 miles on them. The first
> > blowout occurred at only 5500 miles. The Dealer has refused to
> > deal with the issue.
>
> Tyres are tyres. What does this have to do with Saab? If you're not happy
> with Michelin, then buy another brand. I have Michelins on the front and
> Avons (my old front set) on the rear. They seem fine.

Good for you. I hope your luck continues. Nobody should have two
blowouts on the freeway in six months, driving a new car. Not
even the people in this thread who have been frankly insulting.

Sometimes tires are not made well. Tire failures are always a
safety issue, and American Tire Manufacturers are supposed to
recall tire batches that do not meet manufacturing standards.

From calling around yesterday, I find that around five Michelins
are experiencing blowouts out of a hundred on new small cars --
this is very high, and Michelin should recall these tires. Saab
owners should know that Michelins are failing catastrophically in
high numbers like this. Because it is a product safety hazard,
the Saab Company (GM) should replace these tires.


> Were yours at the correct pressure? When did you last check the pressures?
> It's one of those things, along with fluids, that should be checked on a
> regular basis to ensure that the car is running as per the manufacturer's
> intention and to keep you safe.

I am very careful with my tires and made no obvious errors like
this. I hit no potholes. This was not "road damage," as US Tire
mfgrs like to claim.

>
> If you've had two blow-outs so far, I'd suggest you're running them more
> than a little over-pressure.

Good guess, but nope. I check my tires carefully and had no
reason to suspect this was going to happen.

>
> > Today I would trade this Saab straight across for a comparable
> > Honda Civic ...
>
> Is there a comparable Honda Civic?
>

No, and that's my point here. The Honda Civic sells for 60% of
the cost of a 9-3 Saab, yet the Civic has a better safety and
mechanical record -- and certainly has better customer care.
While I like to drive a car that's fun, I MUST drive a car that's
safe and reliable.

Saab should be purple with embarrassment that a car like the
Honda Civic can outperform it.

And I meant what I said: If somebody made it easy for me, I'd
trade my Saab for a comparable Japanese car this week. I need a
car that is safe and reliable.


mb

Re: Saab Complaint
 

In article <3F59F930.1010404@yahoo.com>, ma_twain@yahoo.com
says...

> milt brewster wrote:
>
> > Less than 11,000 miles on a 2000 9-3 coupe.
> >
> > SECOND catastrophic freeway blowout in six months. Both quick
> > and dangerous.
> >
> > NEW Michelin tires have/had 11,000 miles on them. The first
> > blowout occurred at only 5500 miles. The Dealer has refused to
> > deal with the issue.
>
> Find a new dealer - either it is a bad dealer or your attitude has
> poisoned the relationship. At the new dealer, try to be calm, don't
> exaggerate and be patient - have a two way conversation, not a screaming
> match. Judging from the words you chose in this posting, this may be
> difficult.


Go back and read my original post, above. I am quite composed,
thank-you. I think you are the one here with the attitude.

Your attitude is worth pointing out, because this newsgroup needs
to deal constructively with complaints from time to time.

Blaming the problem on the guy who posted the issue, is not good
newsgroup etiquette, and certainly sheds no light on the problem.
I had a serious problem. I am not amused by it. My experience
might affect you as another Saab owner, whether or not you
approve of me, or the language I use (which is sensible and
objective -- go back and read it again.) So Deal.

***

When I had my FIRST blowout, I was very friendly and businesslike
at the Dealer. If anything, I was too friendly and compliant.

My dealer knew I had had an emergency. My car had to be towed to
their garage. The dealer was curt and summarily refused to
consider the tire issue, or contacting the tire manufacturer.
They didn't perform a computer recall check on my car, which I
now know is mandatory for them.

The dealer (B&B Saab in San Jose, CA) charged me $275 to install
an original equipment replacement Michelin tire, and they took a
day and a half. They also changed the oil in my car at the same
time, for another $85.


mb