Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
Jim Mowreader wrote:
> In article <wL-dndyznP1HfifZnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> google this group for the #1 most common failure in older hondas,
>> especially in summer. 30 seconds research would have saved you a bunch
>> of time and money.
>
> I looked at the relay issue before I wrote the OP and it really doesn't
> seem applicable.
>
> 1) this happens all year round--not just during the summer.
main relay. but it's worse when hot.
> 2) I just went outside and started the car. I got three clicks. When the
> car is dead cold, it always starts within a couple of seconds of turning
> the key to the "start" position--normally one second. (After I put the
> new injector seals in, it doesn't even need the two-second pause for the
> fuel pump to pressurize the rail--stick the key in and turn it straight
> to "start," it fires right up.)
the seals have /nothing/ do do with ability to start. they just hold
the gas in the rail and stop the engine sucking air, depending on which
end of the injector you're looking at.
> 3) When the engine is hot, if you push-start the car (which doesn't
> activate the starter, hence doesn't tell the PGM-FI "you're going
> through a startup cycle") it always starts.
er, it wouldn't run at all if the injector system couldn't figure out
when to start injecting...
> 4) When you start the car hot and turn off the fuel pump during
> cranking, it fires right up--naturally, it won't STAY running because no
> gas is being pumped, but it does start running. And when you sit there
> and feed it gas in little increments by turning the fuel pump on and off
> and pumping the gas so the engine will continue to turn, eventually it
> gets through that time when the PGM-FI wants to overdose the engine on
> gas and it runs.
ok, that's more diagnostic. do two things - check into flooded start
conditions and remove plugs to see if you can find the wet one. that'll
give you the leaking injector.
> 5) While this cranking and pumping thing is going on, there's a very
> strong smell of gas around the car, like a car with a carb gets when
> it's flooded.
>
> If it was a main relay problem the car wouldn't run at all, and the car
> runs fine. It's just a livin' bitch to start it when it's hot.
unfortunately, the worst thing about the relay is that it's
intermittent. i strongly recommend you repair or replace it as a
precaution. the chances of this vehicle at this age /not/ being
affected is slim to zero. then you have a clear run at your other
symptoms without false positives.
>
> --jm
> In article <wL-dndyznP1HfifZnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> google this group for the #1 most common failure in older hondas,
>> especially in summer. 30 seconds research would have saved you a bunch
>> of time and money.
>
> I looked at the relay issue before I wrote the OP and it really doesn't
> seem applicable.
>
> 1) this happens all year round--not just during the summer.
main relay. but it's worse when hot.
> 2) I just went outside and started the car. I got three clicks. When the
> car is dead cold, it always starts within a couple of seconds of turning
> the key to the "start" position--normally one second. (After I put the
> new injector seals in, it doesn't even need the two-second pause for the
> fuel pump to pressurize the rail--stick the key in and turn it straight
> to "start," it fires right up.)
the seals have /nothing/ do do with ability to start. they just hold
the gas in the rail and stop the engine sucking air, depending on which
end of the injector you're looking at.
> 3) When the engine is hot, if you push-start the car (which doesn't
> activate the starter, hence doesn't tell the PGM-FI "you're going
> through a startup cycle") it always starts.
er, it wouldn't run at all if the injector system couldn't figure out
when to start injecting...
> 4) When you start the car hot and turn off the fuel pump during
> cranking, it fires right up--naturally, it won't STAY running because no
> gas is being pumped, but it does start running. And when you sit there
> and feed it gas in little increments by turning the fuel pump on and off
> and pumping the gas so the engine will continue to turn, eventually it
> gets through that time when the PGM-FI wants to overdose the engine on
> gas and it runs.
ok, that's more diagnostic. do two things - check into flooded start
conditions and remove plugs to see if you can find the wet one. that'll
give you the leaking injector.
> 5) While this cranking and pumping thing is going on, there's a very
> strong smell of gas around the car, like a car with a carb gets when
> it's flooded.
>
> If it was a main relay problem the car wouldn't run at all, and the car
> runs fine. It's just a livin' bitch to start it when it's hot.
unfortunately, the worst thing about the relay is that it's
intermittent. i strongly recommend you repair or replace it as a
precaution. the chances of this vehicle at this age /not/ being
affected is slim to zero. then you have a clear run at your other
symptoms without false positives.
>
> --jm
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
Jim Mowreader wrote:
> In article <wL-dndyznP1HfifZnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> google this group for the #1 most common failure in older hondas,
>> especially in summer. 30 seconds research would have saved you a bunch
>> of time and money.
>
> I looked at the relay issue before I wrote the OP and it really doesn't
> seem applicable.
>
> 1) this happens all year round--not just during the summer.
main relay. but it's worse when hot.
> 2) I just went outside and started the car. I got three clicks. When the
> car is dead cold, it always starts within a couple of seconds of turning
> the key to the "start" position--normally one second. (After I put the
> new injector seals in, it doesn't even need the two-second pause for the
> fuel pump to pressurize the rail--stick the key in and turn it straight
> to "start," it fires right up.)
the seals have /nothing/ do do with ability to start. they just hold
the gas in the rail and stop the engine sucking air, depending on which
end of the injector you're looking at.
> 3) When the engine is hot, if you push-start the car (which doesn't
> activate the starter, hence doesn't tell the PGM-FI "you're going
> through a startup cycle") it always starts.
er, it wouldn't run at all if the injector system couldn't figure out
when to start injecting...
> 4) When you start the car hot and turn off the fuel pump during
> cranking, it fires right up--naturally, it won't STAY running because no
> gas is being pumped, but it does start running. And when you sit there
> and feed it gas in little increments by turning the fuel pump on and off
> and pumping the gas so the engine will continue to turn, eventually it
> gets through that time when the PGM-FI wants to overdose the engine on
> gas and it runs.
ok, that's more diagnostic. do two things - check into flooded start
conditions and remove plugs to see if you can find the wet one. that'll
give you the leaking injector.
> 5) While this cranking and pumping thing is going on, there's a very
> strong smell of gas around the car, like a car with a carb gets when
> it's flooded.
>
> If it was a main relay problem the car wouldn't run at all, and the car
> runs fine. It's just a livin' bitch to start it when it's hot.
unfortunately, the worst thing about the relay is that it's
intermittent. i strongly recommend you repair or replace it as a
precaution. the chances of this vehicle at this age /not/ being
affected is slim to zero. then you have a clear run at your other
symptoms without false positives.
>
> --jm
> In article <wL-dndyznP1HfifZnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> google this group for the #1 most common failure in older hondas,
>> especially in summer. 30 seconds research would have saved you a bunch
>> of time and money.
>
> I looked at the relay issue before I wrote the OP and it really doesn't
> seem applicable.
>
> 1) this happens all year round--not just during the summer.
main relay. but it's worse when hot.
> 2) I just went outside and started the car. I got three clicks. When the
> car is dead cold, it always starts within a couple of seconds of turning
> the key to the "start" position--normally one second. (After I put the
> new injector seals in, it doesn't even need the two-second pause for the
> fuel pump to pressurize the rail--stick the key in and turn it straight
> to "start," it fires right up.)
the seals have /nothing/ do do with ability to start. they just hold
the gas in the rail and stop the engine sucking air, depending on which
end of the injector you're looking at.
> 3) When the engine is hot, if you push-start the car (which doesn't
> activate the starter, hence doesn't tell the PGM-FI "you're going
> through a startup cycle") it always starts.
er, it wouldn't run at all if the injector system couldn't figure out
when to start injecting...
> 4) When you start the car hot and turn off the fuel pump during
> cranking, it fires right up--naturally, it won't STAY running because no
> gas is being pumped, but it does start running. And when you sit there
> and feed it gas in little increments by turning the fuel pump on and off
> and pumping the gas so the engine will continue to turn, eventually it
> gets through that time when the PGM-FI wants to overdose the engine on
> gas and it runs.
ok, that's more diagnostic. do two things - check into flooded start
conditions and remove plugs to see if you can find the wet one. that'll
give you the leaking injector.
> 5) While this cranking and pumping thing is going on, there's a very
> strong smell of gas around the car, like a car with a carb gets when
> it's flooded.
>
> If it was a main relay problem the car wouldn't run at all, and the car
> runs fine. It's just a livin' bitch to start it when it's hot.
unfortunately, the worst thing about the relay is that it's
intermittent. i strongly recommend you repair or replace it as a
precaution. the chances of this vehicle at this age /not/ being
affected is slim to zero. then you have a clear run at your other
symptoms without false positives.
>
> --jm
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
Jim Mowreader <xpr3@earthlink.net> wrote in news:xpr3-
DA9312.09343017072006@news.west.earthlink.net:
> In article <wL-dndyznP1HfifZnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> google this group for the #1 most common failure in older hondas,
>> especially in summer. 30 seconds research would have saved you a bunch
>> of time and money.
>
> I looked at the relay issue before I wrote the OP and it really doesn't
> seem applicable.
>
> 1) this happens all year round--not just during the summer.
> 2) I just went outside and started the car. I got three clicks.
Indicating the car is not CRANKING. could be a starter problem.
(solenoid contacts?? they can be replaced.)
Could be a worn ignition switch;not energizing the starter.
> When the
> car is dead cold, it always starts within a couple of seconds of turning
> the key to the "start" position--normally one second. (After I put the
> new injector seals in, it doesn't even need the two-second pause for the
> fuel pump to pressurize the rail--stick the key in and turn it straight
> to "start," it fires right up.)
> 3) When the engine is hot, if you push-start the car (which doesn't
> activate the starter, hence doesn't tell the PGM-FI "you're going
> through a startup cycle") it always starts.
PGM-FI (ECU) does not monitor the starter.
> 4) When you start the car hot and turn off the fuel pump during
> cranking, it fires right up--naturally, it won't STAY running because no
> gas is being pumped, but it does start running. And when you sit there
> and feed it gas in little increments by turning the fuel pump on and off
> and pumping the gas so the engine will continue to turn, eventually it
> gets through that time when the PGM-FI wants to overdose the engine on
> gas and it runs.
> 5) While this cranking and pumping thing is going on, there's a very
> strong smell of gas around the car, like a car with a carb gets when
> it's flooded.
>
> If it was a main relay problem the car wouldn't run at all,
Not true.
MR is the most problem when the car is hot,but once the car starts,it stays
running,and always starts when cool.
> and the car
> runs fine. It's just a livin' bitch to start it when it's hot.
>
> --jm
>
Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
DA9312.09343017072006@news.west.earthlink.net:
> In article <wL-dndyznP1HfifZnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> google this group for the #1 most common failure in older hondas,
>> especially in summer. 30 seconds research would have saved you a bunch
>> of time and money.
>
> I looked at the relay issue before I wrote the OP and it really doesn't
> seem applicable.
>
> 1) this happens all year round--not just during the summer.
> 2) I just went outside and started the car. I got three clicks.
Indicating the car is not CRANKING. could be a starter problem.
(solenoid contacts?? they can be replaced.)
Could be a worn ignition switch;not energizing the starter.
> When the
> car is dead cold, it always starts within a couple of seconds of turning
> the key to the "start" position--normally one second. (After I put the
> new injector seals in, it doesn't even need the two-second pause for the
> fuel pump to pressurize the rail--stick the key in and turn it straight
> to "start," it fires right up.)
> 3) When the engine is hot, if you push-start the car (which doesn't
> activate the starter, hence doesn't tell the PGM-FI "you're going
> through a startup cycle") it always starts.
PGM-FI (ECU) does not monitor the starter.
> 4) When you start the car hot and turn off the fuel pump during
> cranking, it fires right up--naturally, it won't STAY running because no
> gas is being pumped, but it does start running. And when you sit there
> and feed it gas in little increments by turning the fuel pump on and off
> and pumping the gas so the engine will continue to turn, eventually it
> gets through that time when the PGM-FI wants to overdose the engine on
> gas and it runs.
> 5) While this cranking and pumping thing is going on, there's a very
> strong smell of gas around the car, like a car with a carb gets when
> it's flooded.
>
> If it was a main relay problem the car wouldn't run at all,
Not true.
MR is the most problem when the car is hot,but once the car starts,it stays
running,and always starts when cool.
> and the car
> runs fine. It's just a livin' bitch to start it when it's hot.
>
> --jm
>
Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
Jim Mowreader <xpr3@earthlink.net> wrote in news:xpr3-
DA9312.09343017072006@news.west.earthlink.net:
> In article <wL-dndyznP1HfifZnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> google this group for the #1 most common failure in older hondas,
>> especially in summer. 30 seconds research would have saved you a bunch
>> of time and money.
>
> I looked at the relay issue before I wrote the OP and it really doesn't
> seem applicable.
>
> 1) this happens all year round--not just during the summer.
> 2) I just went outside and started the car. I got three clicks.
Indicating the car is not CRANKING. could be a starter problem.
(solenoid contacts?? they can be replaced.)
Could be a worn ignition switch;not energizing the starter.
> When the
> car is dead cold, it always starts within a couple of seconds of turning
> the key to the "start" position--normally one second. (After I put the
> new injector seals in, it doesn't even need the two-second pause for the
> fuel pump to pressurize the rail--stick the key in and turn it straight
> to "start," it fires right up.)
> 3) When the engine is hot, if you push-start the car (which doesn't
> activate the starter, hence doesn't tell the PGM-FI "you're going
> through a startup cycle") it always starts.
PGM-FI (ECU) does not monitor the starter.
> 4) When you start the car hot and turn off the fuel pump during
> cranking, it fires right up--naturally, it won't STAY running because no
> gas is being pumped, but it does start running. And when you sit there
> and feed it gas in little increments by turning the fuel pump on and off
> and pumping the gas so the engine will continue to turn, eventually it
> gets through that time when the PGM-FI wants to overdose the engine on
> gas and it runs.
> 5) While this cranking and pumping thing is going on, there's a very
> strong smell of gas around the car, like a car with a carb gets when
> it's flooded.
>
> If it was a main relay problem the car wouldn't run at all,
Not true.
MR is the most problem when the car is hot,but once the car starts,it stays
running,and always starts when cool.
> and the car
> runs fine. It's just a livin' bitch to start it when it's hot.
>
> --jm
>
Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
DA9312.09343017072006@news.west.earthlink.net:
> In article <wL-dndyznP1HfifZnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> google this group for the #1 most common failure in older hondas,
>> especially in summer. 30 seconds research would have saved you a bunch
>> of time and money.
>
> I looked at the relay issue before I wrote the OP and it really doesn't
> seem applicable.
>
> 1) this happens all year round--not just during the summer.
> 2) I just went outside and started the car. I got three clicks.
Indicating the car is not CRANKING. could be a starter problem.
(solenoid contacts?? they can be replaced.)
Could be a worn ignition switch;not energizing the starter.
> When the
> car is dead cold, it always starts within a couple of seconds of turning
> the key to the "start" position--normally one second. (After I put the
> new injector seals in, it doesn't even need the two-second pause for the
> fuel pump to pressurize the rail--stick the key in and turn it straight
> to "start," it fires right up.)
> 3) When the engine is hot, if you push-start the car (which doesn't
> activate the starter, hence doesn't tell the PGM-FI "you're going
> through a startup cycle") it always starts.
PGM-FI (ECU) does not monitor the starter.
> 4) When you start the car hot and turn off the fuel pump during
> cranking, it fires right up--naturally, it won't STAY running because no
> gas is being pumped, but it does start running. And when you sit there
> and feed it gas in little increments by turning the fuel pump on and off
> and pumping the gas so the engine will continue to turn, eventually it
> gets through that time when the PGM-FI wants to overdose the engine on
> gas and it runs.
> 5) While this cranking and pumping thing is going on, there's a very
> strong smell of gas around the car, like a car with a carb gets when
> it's flooded.
>
> If it was a main relay problem the car wouldn't run at all,
Not true.
MR is the most problem when the car is hot,but once the car starts,it stays
running,and always starts when cool.
> and the car
> runs fine. It's just a livin' bitch to start it when it's hot.
>
> --jm
>
Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
Jim Mowreader <xpr3@earthlink.net> wrote in news:xpr3-
DA9312.09343017072006@news.west.earthlink.net:
> In article <wL-dndyznP1HfifZnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> google this group for the #1 most common failure in older hondas,
>> especially in summer. 30 seconds research would have saved you a bunch
>> of time and money.
>
> I looked at the relay issue before I wrote the OP and it really doesn't
> seem applicable.
>
> 1) this happens all year round--not just during the summer.
> 2) I just went outside and started the car. I got three clicks.
Indicating the car is not CRANKING. could be a starter problem.
(solenoid contacts?? they can be replaced.)
Could be a worn ignition switch;not energizing the starter.
> When the
> car is dead cold, it always starts within a couple of seconds of turning
> the key to the "start" position--normally one second. (After I put the
> new injector seals in, it doesn't even need the two-second pause for the
> fuel pump to pressurize the rail--stick the key in and turn it straight
> to "start," it fires right up.)
> 3) When the engine is hot, if you push-start the car (which doesn't
> activate the starter, hence doesn't tell the PGM-FI "you're going
> through a startup cycle") it always starts.
PGM-FI (ECU) does not monitor the starter.
> 4) When you start the car hot and turn off the fuel pump during
> cranking, it fires right up--naturally, it won't STAY running because no
> gas is being pumped, but it does start running. And when you sit there
> and feed it gas in little increments by turning the fuel pump on and off
> and pumping the gas so the engine will continue to turn, eventually it
> gets through that time when the PGM-FI wants to overdose the engine on
> gas and it runs.
> 5) While this cranking and pumping thing is going on, there's a very
> strong smell of gas around the car, like a car with a carb gets when
> it's flooded.
>
> If it was a main relay problem the car wouldn't run at all,
Not true.
MR is the most problem when the car is hot,but once the car starts,it stays
running,and always starts when cool.
> and the car
> runs fine. It's just a livin' bitch to start it when it's hot.
>
> --jm
>
Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
DA9312.09343017072006@news.west.earthlink.net:
> In article <wL-dndyznP1HfifZnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> google this group for the #1 most common failure in older hondas,
>> especially in summer. 30 seconds research would have saved you a bunch
>> of time and money.
>
> I looked at the relay issue before I wrote the OP and it really doesn't
> seem applicable.
>
> 1) this happens all year round--not just during the summer.
> 2) I just went outside and started the car. I got three clicks.
Indicating the car is not CRANKING. could be a starter problem.
(solenoid contacts?? they can be replaced.)
Could be a worn ignition switch;not energizing the starter.
> When the
> car is dead cold, it always starts within a couple of seconds of turning
> the key to the "start" position--normally one second. (After I put the
> new injector seals in, it doesn't even need the two-second pause for the
> fuel pump to pressurize the rail--stick the key in and turn it straight
> to "start," it fires right up.)
> 3) When the engine is hot, if you push-start the car (which doesn't
> activate the starter, hence doesn't tell the PGM-FI "you're going
> through a startup cycle") it always starts.
PGM-FI (ECU) does not monitor the starter.
> 4) When you start the car hot and turn off the fuel pump during
> cranking, it fires right up--naturally, it won't STAY running because no
> gas is being pumped, but it does start running. And when you sit there
> and feed it gas in little increments by turning the fuel pump on and off
> and pumping the gas so the engine will continue to turn, eventually it
> gets through that time when the PGM-FI wants to overdose the engine on
> gas and it runs.
> 5) While this cranking and pumping thing is going on, there's a very
> strong smell of gas around the car, like a car with a carb gets when
> it's flooded.
>
> If it was a main relay problem the car wouldn't run at all,
Not true.
MR is the most problem when the car is hot,but once the car starts,it stays
running,and always starts when cool.
> and the car
> runs fine. It's just a livin' bitch to start it when it's hot.
>
> --jm
>
Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
Jim Mowreader <xpr3@earthlink.net> wrote in news:xpr3-
DA9312.09343017072006@news.west.earthlink.net:
> In article <wL-dndyznP1HfifZnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> google this group for the #1 most common failure in older hondas,
>> especially in summer. 30 seconds research would have saved you a bunch
>> of time and money.
>
> I looked at the relay issue before I wrote the OP and it really doesn't
> seem applicable.
>
> 1) this happens all year round--not just during the summer.
> 2) I just went outside and started the car. I got three clicks.
Indicating the car is not CRANKING. could be a starter problem.
(solenoid contacts?? they can be replaced.)
Could be a worn ignition switch;not energizing the starter.
> When the
> car is dead cold, it always starts within a couple of seconds of turning
> the key to the "start" position--normally one second. (After I put the
> new injector seals in, it doesn't even need the two-second pause for the
> fuel pump to pressurize the rail--stick the key in and turn it straight
> to "start," it fires right up.)
> 3) When the engine is hot, if you push-start the car (which doesn't
> activate the starter, hence doesn't tell the PGM-FI "you're going
> through a startup cycle") it always starts.
PGM-FI (ECU) does not monitor the starter.
> 4) When you start the car hot and turn off the fuel pump during
> cranking, it fires right up--naturally, it won't STAY running because no
> gas is being pumped, but it does start running. And when you sit there
> and feed it gas in little increments by turning the fuel pump on and off
> and pumping the gas so the engine will continue to turn, eventually it
> gets through that time when the PGM-FI wants to overdose the engine on
> gas and it runs.
> 5) While this cranking and pumping thing is going on, there's a very
> strong smell of gas around the car, like a car with a carb gets when
> it's flooded.
>
> If it was a main relay problem the car wouldn't run at all,
Not true.
MR is the most problem when the car is hot,but once the car starts,it stays
running,and always starts when cool.
> and the car
> runs fine. It's just a livin' bitch to start it when it's hot.
>
> --jm
>
Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
DA9312.09343017072006@news.west.earthlink.net:
> In article <wL-dndyznP1HfifZnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> google this group for the #1 most common failure in older hondas,
>> especially in summer. 30 seconds research would have saved you a bunch
>> of time and money.
>
> I looked at the relay issue before I wrote the OP and it really doesn't
> seem applicable.
>
> 1) this happens all year round--not just during the summer.
> 2) I just went outside and started the car. I got three clicks.
Indicating the car is not CRANKING. could be a starter problem.
(solenoid contacts?? they can be replaced.)
Could be a worn ignition switch;not energizing the starter.
> When the
> car is dead cold, it always starts within a couple of seconds of turning
> the key to the "start" position--normally one second. (After I put the
> new injector seals in, it doesn't even need the two-second pause for the
> fuel pump to pressurize the rail--stick the key in and turn it straight
> to "start," it fires right up.)
> 3) When the engine is hot, if you push-start the car (which doesn't
> activate the starter, hence doesn't tell the PGM-FI "you're going
> through a startup cycle") it always starts.
PGM-FI (ECU) does not monitor the starter.
> 4) When you start the car hot and turn off the fuel pump during
> cranking, it fires right up--naturally, it won't STAY running because no
> gas is being pumped, but it does start running. And when you sit there
> and feed it gas in little increments by turning the fuel pump on and off
> and pumping the gas so the engine will continue to turn, eventually it
> gets through that time when the PGM-FI wants to overdose the engine on
> gas and it runs.
> 5) While this cranking and pumping thing is going on, there's a very
> strong smell of gas around the car, like a car with a carb gets when
> it's flooded.
>
> If it was a main relay problem the car wouldn't run at all,
Not true.
MR is the most problem when the car is hot,but once the car starts,it stays
running,and always starts when cool.
> and the car
> runs fine. It's just a livin' bitch to start it when it's hot.
>
> --jm
>
Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:uOudnZS0KOyhCybZnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:
> Jim Mowreader wrote:
>>
>> If it was a main relay problem the car wouldn't run at all,
Not true.
>> and the
>> car runs fine. It's just a livin' bitch to start it when it's hot.
>
> unfortunately, the worst thing about the relay is that it's
> intermittent. i strongly recommend you repair or replace it as a
> precaution. the chances of this vehicle at this age /not/ being
> affected is slim to zero. then you have a clear run at your other
> symptoms without false positives.
>
>>
>> --jm
Yes,it's SO easy to just resolder the relay and ELIMINATE it as a trouble
source,and doesn't cost anything except a little time.
Then he could look at starter problems,or whatever.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
news:uOudnZS0KOyhCybZnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:
> Jim Mowreader wrote:
>>
>> If it was a main relay problem the car wouldn't run at all,
Not true.
>> and the
>> car runs fine. It's just a livin' bitch to start it when it's hot.
>
> unfortunately, the worst thing about the relay is that it's
> intermittent. i strongly recommend you repair or replace it as a
> precaution. the chances of this vehicle at this age /not/ being
> affected is slim to zero. then you have a clear run at your other
> symptoms without false positives.
>
>>
>> --jm
Yes,it's SO easy to just resolder the relay and ELIMINATE it as a trouble
source,and doesn't cost anything except a little time.
Then he could look at starter problems,or whatever.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:uOudnZS0KOyhCybZnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:
> Jim Mowreader wrote:
>>
>> If it was a main relay problem the car wouldn't run at all,
Not true.
>> and the
>> car runs fine. It's just a livin' bitch to start it when it's hot.
>
> unfortunately, the worst thing about the relay is that it's
> intermittent. i strongly recommend you repair or replace it as a
> precaution. the chances of this vehicle at this age /not/ being
> affected is slim to zero. then you have a clear run at your other
> symptoms without false positives.
>
>>
>> --jm
Yes,it's SO easy to just resolder the relay and ELIMINATE it as a trouble
source,and doesn't cost anything except a little time.
Then he could look at starter problems,or whatever.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
news:uOudnZS0KOyhCybZnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:
> Jim Mowreader wrote:
>>
>> If it was a main relay problem the car wouldn't run at all,
Not true.
>> and the
>> car runs fine. It's just a livin' bitch to start it when it's hot.
>
> unfortunately, the worst thing about the relay is that it's
> intermittent. i strongly recommend you repair or replace it as a
> precaution. the chances of this vehicle at this age /not/ being
> affected is slim to zero. then you have a clear run at your other
> symptoms without false positives.
>
>>
>> --jm
Yes,it's SO easy to just resolder the relay and ELIMINATE it as a trouble
source,and doesn't cost anything except a little time.
Then he could look at starter problems,or whatever.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:uOudnZS0KOyhCybZnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:
> Jim Mowreader wrote:
>>
>> If it was a main relay problem the car wouldn't run at all,
Not true.
>> and the
>> car runs fine. It's just a livin' bitch to start it when it's hot.
>
> unfortunately, the worst thing about the relay is that it's
> intermittent. i strongly recommend you repair or replace it as a
> precaution. the chances of this vehicle at this age /not/ being
> affected is slim to zero. then you have a clear run at your other
> symptoms without false positives.
>
>>
>> --jm
Yes,it's SO easy to just resolder the relay and ELIMINATE it as a trouble
source,and doesn't cost anything except a little time.
Then he could look at starter problems,or whatever.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
news:uOudnZS0KOyhCybZnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:
> Jim Mowreader wrote:
>>
>> If it was a main relay problem the car wouldn't run at all,
Not true.
>> and the
>> car runs fine. It's just a livin' bitch to start it when it's hot.
>
> unfortunately, the worst thing about the relay is that it's
> intermittent. i strongly recommend you repair or replace it as a
> precaution. the chances of this vehicle at this age /not/ being
> affected is slim to zero. then you have a clear run at your other
> symptoms without false positives.
>
>>
>> --jm
Yes,it's SO easy to just resolder the relay and ELIMINATE it as a trouble
source,and doesn't cost anything except a little time.
Then he could look at starter problems,or whatever.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:uOudnZS0KOyhCybZnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:
> Jim Mowreader wrote:
>>
>> If it was a main relay problem the car wouldn't run at all,
Not true.
>> and the
>> car runs fine. It's just a livin' bitch to start it when it's hot.
>
> unfortunately, the worst thing about the relay is that it's
> intermittent. i strongly recommend you repair or replace it as a
> precaution. the chances of this vehicle at this age /not/ being
> affected is slim to zero. then you have a clear run at your other
> symptoms without false positives.
>
>>
>> --jm
Yes,it's SO easy to just resolder the relay and ELIMINATE it as a trouble
source,and doesn't cost anything except a little time.
Then he could look at starter problems,or whatever.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
news:uOudnZS0KOyhCybZnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:
> Jim Mowreader wrote:
>>
>> If it was a main relay problem the car wouldn't run at all,
Not true.
>> and the
>> car runs fine. It's just a livin' bitch to start it when it's hot.
>
> unfortunately, the worst thing about the relay is that it's
> intermittent. i strongly recommend you repair or replace it as a
> precaution. the chances of this vehicle at this age /not/ being
> affected is slim to zero. then you have a clear run at your other
> symptoms without false positives.
>
>>
>> --jm
Yes,it's SO easy to just resolder the relay and ELIMINATE it as a trouble
source,and doesn't cost anything except a little time.
Then he could look at starter problems,or whatever.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
In article
<8vIug.405656$Fs1.125549@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"CCTGENE" <cctgene@att.net> wrote:
> When the car doesn't start are you getting spark? If so, then maybe the fuel
> pump relay.
It gets spark.
jm
<8vIug.405656$Fs1.125549@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"CCTGENE" <cctgene@att.net> wrote:
> When the car doesn't start are you getting spark? If so, then maybe the fuel
> pump relay.
It gets spark.
jm
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
In article
<8vIug.405656$Fs1.125549@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"CCTGENE" <cctgene@att.net> wrote:
> When the car doesn't start are you getting spark? If so, then maybe the fuel
> pump relay.
It gets spark.
jm
<8vIug.405656$Fs1.125549@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"CCTGENE" <cctgene@att.net> wrote:
> When the car doesn't start are you getting spark? If so, then maybe the fuel
> pump relay.
It gets spark.
jm
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
In article
<8vIug.405656$Fs1.125549@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"CCTGENE" <cctgene@att.net> wrote:
> When the car doesn't start are you getting spark? If so, then maybe the fuel
> pump relay.
It gets spark.
jm
<8vIug.405656$Fs1.125549@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"CCTGENE" <cctgene@att.net> wrote:
> When the car doesn't start are you getting spark? If so, then maybe the fuel
> pump relay.
It gets spark.
jm
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
In article
<8vIug.405656$Fs1.125549@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"CCTGENE" <cctgene@att.net> wrote:
> When the car doesn't start are you getting spark? If so, then maybe the fuel
> pump relay.
It gets spark.
jm
<8vIug.405656$Fs1.125549@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"CCTGENE" <cctgene@att.net> wrote:
> When the car doesn't start are you getting spark? If so, then maybe the fuel
> pump relay.
It gets spark.
jm
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
It starts fine when cold.
It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
starting hot.
Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
the car runs fine.
It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
cold starts.
And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
starts, it runs exactly as it should.
I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
(turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
on (startup):
if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
then
inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
and
run starter
end if
or
if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
then
inject standard fuel quantity
and
run starter
end if
But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
use, and floods it out.
--jm
Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
It starts fine when cold.
It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
starting hot.
Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
the car runs fine.
It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
cold starts.
And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
starts, it runs exactly as it should.
I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
(turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
on (startup):
if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
then
inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
and
run starter
end if
or
if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
then
inject standard fuel quantity
and
run starter
end if
But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
use, and floods it out.
--jm