Elle wrote:

> -- I understand installing a new engine is around a day's work, maybe less. This so?

-------------------------------------------

Yes,

IF you have air tools, a hoist, maybe a crane, and any 'special' tools
the MAKER dreamed up for holding their engine in place. Otherwise you
spend half a day driving around town trying to find some %#*!#@
left-handed needle-nose *&%#$! thingy that holds the _____________ on.

Keep that in mind. :-)

'Curly'

 

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:O%Ang.2245$ii.1559@newsread3.news.pas.earthli nk.net...
>I tried inquring about this at the one Usenet Isuzu newsgroup but am not
>getting any feedback.
>
> Friends of mine have a 2000, 3.5 Liter, 4-wheel drive, automatic
> transmission, Isuzu Trooper. While driving it up a large hill (really, the
> foothills of a serious Western mountain range), the car stopped running. I
> don't have the details on this, but subsequently, they had it towed to a
> nearby mechanic who works on Isuzus and he said it had thrown a rod. The
> car is currently sitting in the lot of another friend who has some
> background in auto/truck mechanics but has not yet had a chance to look at
> it. I am going to look under the hood sometime in the near future and try
> to verify the thrown rod and destruction of the engine. The owner said he
> was a bit remiss about oil changes but did have them done every 10k miles
> or one year at least. Some questions:
>
> -- From my googling, a thrown rod can be very obvious: A steel rod pushes
> through the crankcase or engine block. Can it also be not so obvious? E.g.
> suppose the rod has disconnected from the piston head, and it's just
> banging around inside the cylinder. The latter scenario presumes the
> vehicle was stopped quickly. What else can I look for? I am not sure I
> will be able to try to start it up yet.
>
> -- I have been making online inquiries of salvage yards about (1) used
> cylinder blocks; (2) used, entire engines. Dumb question but I'm not quite
> clear on this point: Does it matter whether the used engine was attached
> to a 2WD Isuzu Trooper? It seems both 2WD and 4WD Troopers, of the same
> 3.5 Liter engine displacement, are available.
>
> -- I am getting quotes back in the $3k-$4k range but from yards many
> states away. Shipping seems pretty reasonable and common. Has anyone
> purchased an engine or cylinder block from several states away? What kind
> of assurances can I get about the condition of the engine? One seller so
> far has said he has a CarFax report verifying the engine has only seen 32k
> miles. I plan to check locally, too.
>
> -- Evidently going up hills in too high a gear can throw a rod. The high
> gear translates to low revs but high torque, stressing, from what I
> understand, the piston rod, crankshaft, and associated bearings. Can
> anyone elaborate further on this? It might help me to identify whether a
> rod was actually thrown.
>
> -- I understand installing a new engine is around a day's work, maybe
> less. This so? I am going to try to get a quote for the labor from my
> favorite import shop in mind but will also inquire at the nearest Isuzu
> dealer. Anything in particular I should ask them other than: "How much to
> remove an old engine and install a second-hand one?"
>
> The owners of this car do an astonishing amount of volunteer work in
> animal rescue. They are down to one truck (while normally having two).
> Given the circumstances, your assistance is especially appreciated.
>
> (Honda note: Isuzu has done some business on the trucking side with
> Honda.)
>
>
>

Bad mojo! I have only seen two thrown rods personally, and both times the
rod came through the crankcase but was not sticking out. I don't think
that's always true. In both cases (a Subaru and a Toyota) the engine was
pretty worn and had known oil pressure problems that were not worth tracking
down in so old a car. In each of those the diagnosis wasn't hard because
there were pieces of crankcase on the ground under the engine, which seemed
somewhat irregular....

One caveat on the engine swap - don't forget to address the problem of
dealing with the refrigerant if the vehicle has A/C. Maybe the compressor
will swing out of the way and the hoses won't be threaded through anything
important, but when was the last time you were so lucky?

Mike

 

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:O%Ang.2245$ii.1559@newsread3.news.pas.earthli nk.net...
>I tried inquring about this at the one Usenet Isuzu newsgroup but am not
>getting any feedback.
>
> Friends of mine have a 2000, 3.5 Liter, 4-wheel drive, automatic
> transmission, Isuzu Trooper. While driving it up a large hill (really, the
> foothills of a serious Western mountain range), the car stopped running. I
> don't have the details on this, but subsequently, they had it towed to a
> nearby mechanic who works on Isuzus and he said it had thrown a rod. The
> car is currently sitting in the lot of another friend who has some
> background in auto/truck mechanics but has not yet had a chance to look at
> it. I am going to look under the hood sometime in the near future and try
> to verify the thrown rod and destruction of the engine. The owner said he
> was a bit remiss about oil changes but did have them done every 10k miles
> or one year at least. Some questions:
>
> -- From my googling, a thrown rod can be very obvious: A steel rod pushes
> through the crankcase or engine block. Can it also be not so obvious? E.g.
> suppose the rod has disconnected from the piston head, and it's just
> banging around inside the cylinder. The latter scenario presumes the
> vehicle was stopped quickly. What else can I look for? I am not sure I
> will be able to try to start it up yet.
>
> -- I have been making online inquiries of salvage yards about (1) used
> cylinder blocks; (2) used, entire engines. Dumb question but I'm not quite
> clear on this point: Does it matter whether the used engine was attached
> to a 2WD Isuzu Trooper? It seems both 2WD and 4WD Troopers, of the same
> 3.5 Liter engine displacement, are available.
>
> -- I am getting quotes back in the $3k-$4k range but from yards many
> states away. Shipping seems pretty reasonable and common. Has anyone
> purchased an engine or cylinder block from several states away? What kind
> of assurances can I get about the condition of the engine? One seller so
> far has said he has a CarFax report verifying the engine has only seen 32k
> miles. I plan to check locally, too.
>
> -- Evidently going up hills in too high a gear can throw a rod. The high
> gear translates to low revs but high torque, stressing, from what I
> understand, the piston rod, crankshaft, and associated bearings. Can
> anyone elaborate further on this? It might help me to identify whether a
> rod was actually thrown.
>
> -- I understand installing a new engine is around a day's work, maybe
> less. This so? I am going to try to get a quote for the labor from my
> favorite import shop in mind but will also inquire at the nearest Isuzu
> dealer. Anything in particular I should ask them other than: "How much to
> remove an old engine and install a second-hand one?"
>
> The owners of this car do an astonishing amount of volunteer work in
> animal rescue. They are down to one truck (while normally having two).
> Given the circumstances, your assistance is especially appreciated.
>
> (Honda note: Isuzu has done some business on the trucking side with
> Honda.)
>
>
>

Bad mojo! I have only seen two thrown rods personally, and both times the
rod came through the crankcase but was not sticking out. I don't think
that's always true. In both cases (a Subaru and a Toyota) the engine was
pretty worn and had known oil pressure problems that were not worth tracking
down in so old a car. In each of those the diagnosis wasn't hard because
there were pieces of crankcase on the ground under the engine, which seemed
somewhat irregular....

One caveat on the engine swap - don't forget to address the problem of
dealing with the refrigerant if the vehicle has A/C. Maybe the compressor
will swing out of the way and the hoses won't be threaded through anything
important, but when was the last time you were so lucky?

Mike

 

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:O%Ang.2245$ii.1559@newsread3.news.pas.earthli nk.net...
>I tried inquring about this at the one Usenet Isuzu newsgroup but am not
>getting any feedback.
>
> Friends of mine have a 2000, 3.5 Liter, 4-wheel drive, automatic
> transmission, Isuzu Trooper. While driving it up a large hill (really, the
> foothills of a serious Western mountain range), the car stopped running. I
> don't have the details on this, but subsequently, they had it towed to a
> nearby mechanic who works on Isuzus and he said it had thrown a rod. The
> car is currently sitting in the lot of another friend who has some
> background in auto/truck mechanics but has not yet had a chance to look at
> it. I am going to look under the hood sometime in the near future and try
> to verify the thrown rod and destruction of the engine. The owner said he
> was a bit remiss about oil changes but did have them done every 10k miles
> or one year at least. Some questions:
>
> -- From my googling, a thrown rod can be very obvious: A steel rod pushes
> through the crankcase or engine block. Can it also be not so obvious? E.g.
> suppose the rod has disconnected from the piston head, and it's just
> banging around inside the cylinder. The latter scenario presumes the
> vehicle was stopped quickly. What else can I look for? I am not sure I
> will be able to try to start it up yet.
>
> -- I have been making online inquiries of salvage yards about (1) used
> cylinder blocks; (2) used, entire engines. Dumb question but I'm not quite
> clear on this point: Does it matter whether the used engine was attached
> to a 2WD Isuzu Trooper? It seems both 2WD and 4WD Troopers, of the same
> 3.5 Liter engine displacement, are available.
>
> -- I am getting quotes back in the $3k-$4k range but from yards many
> states away. Shipping seems pretty reasonable and common. Has anyone
> purchased an engine or cylinder block from several states away? What kind
> of assurances can I get about the condition of the engine? One seller so
> far has said he has a CarFax report verifying the engine has only seen 32k
> miles. I plan to check locally, too.
>
> -- Evidently going up hills in too high a gear can throw a rod. The high
> gear translates to low revs but high torque, stressing, from what I
> understand, the piston rod, crankshaft, and associated bearings. Can
> anyone elaborate further on this? It might help me to identify whether a
> rod was actually thrown.
>
> -- I understand installing a new engine is around a day's work, maybe
> less. This so? I am going to try to get a quote for the labor from my
> favorite import shop in mind but will also inquire at the nearest Isuzu
> dealer. Anything in particular I should ask them other than: "How much to
> remove an old engine and install a second-hand one?"
>
> The owners of this car do an astonishing amount of volunteer work in
> animal rescue. They are down to one truck (while normally having two).
> Given the circumstances, your assistance is especially appreciated.
>
> (Honda note: Isuzu has done some business on the trucking side with
> Honda.)
>
>
>

Bad mojo! I have only seen two thrown rods personally, and both times the
rod came through the crankcase but was not sticking out. I don't think
that's always true. In both cases (a Subaru and a Toyota) the engine was
pretty worn and had known oil pressure problems that were not worth tracking
down in so old a car. In each of those the diagnosis wasn't hard because
there were pieces of crankcase on the ground under the engine, which seemed
somewhat irregular....

One caveat on the engine swap - don't forget to address the problem of
dealing with the refrigerant if the vehicle has A/C. Maybe the compressor
will swing out of the way and the hoses won't be threaded through anything
important, but when was the last time you were so lucky?

Mike

 

"'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote
> Elle wrote:
>
>> -- I understand installing a new engine is around a day's
>> work, maybe less. >> This so?
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> Yes,
>
> IF you have air tools, a hoist, maybe a crane, and any
> 'special' tools
> the MAKER dreamed up for holding their engine in place.
> Otherwise you
> spend half a day driving around town trying to find some
> %#*!#@
> left-handed needle-nose *&%#$! thingy that holds the
> _____________ on.
>
> Keep that in mind. :-)

I will double check that the shop that the owners of this
Isuzu Trooper truck use are well-prepared to do an engine
swap, if it comes to this.

I was mostly curious as to how long it might be before the
owners get the truck back.

I wish I could get my hands on the changeout part a little,
but I hesitate to do even minor work on other people's cars
(too much liability, emotional and financial). Plus, as you
suggest, I have nothing like the special tools that are
needed. Those little hoists/cranes that lift the engines out
look like fun. Such "possibility."

One interesting thing I learned from the several engine
salvage yards that responded to my query is that many list
on their web sites the cost of a refurbished 91 Civic (my
car) engine. It's typically around only $600, including
various warranties. At least, $600 seems cheap to me.

 

"'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote
> Elle wrote:
>
>> -- I understand installing a new engine is around a day's
>> work, maybe less. >> This so?
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> Yes,
>
> IF you have air tools, a hoist, maybe a crane, and any
> 'special' tools
> the MAKER dreamed up for holding their engine in place.
> Otherwise you
> spend half a day driving around town trying to find some
> %#*!#@
> left-handed needle-nose *&%#$! thingy that holds the
> _____________ on.
>
> Keep that in mind. :-)

I will double check that the shop that the owners of this
Isuzu Trooper truck use are well-prepared to do an engine
swap, if it comes to this.

I was mostly curious as to how long it might be before the
owners get the truck back.

I wish I could get my hands on the changeout part a little,
but I hesitate to do even minor work on other people's cars
(too much liability, emotional and financial). Plus, as you
suggest, I have nothing like the special tools that are
needed. Those little hoists/cranes that lift the engines out
look like fun. Such "possibility."

One interesting thing I learned from the several engine
salvage yards that responded to my query is that many list
on their web sites the cost of a refurbished 91 Civic (my
car) engine. It's typically around only $600, including
various warranties. At least, $600 seems cheap to me.

 

"'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote
> Elle wrote:
>
>> -- I understand installing a new engine is around a day's
>> work, maybe less. >> This so?
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> Yes,
>
> IF you have air tools, a hoist, maybe a crane, and any
> 'special' tools
> the MAKER dreamed up for holding their engine in place.
> Otherwise you
> spend half a day driving around town trying to find some
> %#*!#@
> left-handed needle-nose *&%#$! thingy that holds the
> _____________ on.
>
> Keep that in mind. :-)

I will double check that the shop that the owners of this
Isuzu Trooper truck use are well-prepared to do an engine
swap, if it comes to this.

I was mostly curious as to how long it might be before the
owners get the truck back.

I wish I could get my hands on the changeout part a little,
but I hesitate to do even minor work on other people's cars
(too much liability, emotional and financial). Plus, as you
suggest, I have nothing like the special tools that are
needed. Those little hoists/cranes that lift the engines out
look like fun. Such "possibility."

One interesting thing I learned from the several engine
salvage yards that responded to my query is that many list
on their web sites the cost of a refurbished 91 Civic (my
car) engine. It's typically around only $600, including
various warranties. At least, $600 seems cheap to me.

 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
> Bad mojo! I have only seen two thrown rods personally, and
> both times the > rod came through the crankcase but was
> not sticking out. I don't think that's always true. In
> both cases (a Subaru and a Toyota) the engine was pretty
> worn and had known oil pressure problems that were not
> worth tracking down in so old a car. In each of those the
> diagnosis wasn't hard because there were pieces of
> crankcase on the ground under the engine, which seemed
> somewhat irregular....

Indeed!

This 2000 Isuzu truck has "only" 133k miles on it. But maybe
this is a lot for Isuzus.

These folks may have done some serious towing with it,
wearing bearings prior to this apparent catastrophe. (Sorry
I can't get all the facts just yet.)

> One caveat on the engine swap - don't forget to address
> the problem of dealing with the refrigerant if the vehicle
> has A/C. Maybe the compressor will swing out of the way
> and the hoses won't be threaded through anything
> important, but when was the last time you were so lucky?

I'm not going to attempt this myself. I wanted to know on
what to keep an eye with any shop that does the job.

Thanks for the input, Michael.

I'll update if I or someone else ever gets access to the
truck.

 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
> Bad mojo! I have only seen two thrown rods personally, and
> both times the > rod came through the crankcase but was
> not sticking out. I don't think that's always true. In
> both cases (a Subaru and a Toyota) the engine was pretty
> worn and had known oil pressure problems that were not
> worth tracking down in so old a car. In each of those the
> diagnosis wasn't hard because there were pieces of
> crankcase on the ground under the engine, which seemed
> somewhat irregular....

Indeed!

This 2000 Isuzu truck has "only" 133k miles on it. But maybe
this is a lot for Isuzus.

These folks may have done some serious towing with it,
wearing bearings prior to this apparent catastrophe. (Sorry
I can't get all the facts just yet.)

> One caveat on the engine swap - don't forget to address
> the problem of dealing with the refrigerant if the vehicle
> has A/C. Maybe the compressor will swing out of the way
> and the hoses won't be threaded through anything
> important, but when was the last time you were so lucky?

I'm not going to attempt this myself. I wanted to know on
what to keep an eye with any shop that does the job.

Thanks for the input, Michael.

I'll update if I or someone else ever gets access to the
truck.

 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
> Bad mojo! I have only seen two thrown rods personally, and
> both times the > rod came through the crankcase but was
> not sticking out. I don't think that's always true. In
> both cases (a Subaru and a Toyota) the engine was pretty
> worn and had known oil pressure problems that were not
> worth tracking down in so old a car. In each of those the
> diagnosis wasn't hard because there were pieces of
> crankcase on the ground under the engine, which seemed
> somewhat irregular....

Indeed!

This 2000 Isuzu truck has "only" 133k miles on it. But maybe
this is a lot for Isuzus.

These folks may have done some serious towing with it,
wearing bearings prior to this apparent catastrophe. (Sorry
I can't get all the facts just yet.)

> One caveat on the engine swap - don't forget to address
> the problem of dealing with the refrigerant if the vehicle
> has A/C. Maybe the compressor will swing out of the way
> and the hoses won't be threaded through anything
> important, but when was the last time you were so lucky?

I'm not going to attempt this myself. I wanted to know on
what to keep an eye with any shop that does the job.

Thanks for the input, Michael.

I'll update if I or someone else ever gets access to the
truck.