Re: use of higher octane gasoline
 

Falling asleep through Paul Cardoza's post...

> VTEC The VT stands for variable timing. The 2003 models will
> adjust themsleves to the octane used. Is 10hp worth $0.20+ per
> gallon? Not to me. My V6 Accord runs just fine on 87.

VTEC engages another cam at higher engine speeds. It does not increase
compression. Only Saab has that tech in the works right now. Unless
you're forcing air into the combustion chamber, you haven't increase the
compression ratio. Which would be the only way that you would need to run
93 octane gas.

--
"If you can't change a tire, you're not allowed to have a beard. It's the
most basic part of a car: If you don't know that much about a car, you
really shouldn't be driving, should you?" - Jimmy Kimmel
http://www.cafeshops.com/creexul.2534632
Owner of the following: Henry Cotter - A.G.F.F., Eric Dreher AND mark
digital© - A.A.T., wiru the tired - A.F.D., and that Gino guy who keeps
chaning his nick on A.A.Acura.
http://acfsliars.0catch.com/todd

Re: use of higher octane gasoline
 

Increasing the advance of the ignition timing could also necessitate higher
octane fuel.


> VTEC engages another cam at higher engine speeds. It does not increase
> compression. Only Saab has that tech in the works right now. Unless
> you're forcing air into the combustion chamber, you haven't increase the
> compression ratio. Which would be the only way that you would need to run
> 93 octane gas.

Re: use of higher octane gasoline
 

Increasing the advance of the ignition timing could also necessitate higher
octane fuel.


> VTEC engages another cam at higher engine speeds. It does not increase
> compression. Only Saab has that tech in the works right now. Unless
> you're forcing air into the combustion chamber, you haven't increase the
> compression ratio. Which would be the only way that you would need to run
> 93 octane gas.

Re: use of higher octane gasoline
 

Increasing the advance of the ignition timing could also necessitate higher
octane fuel.


> VTEC engages another cam at higher engine speeds. It does not increase
> compression. Only Saab has that tech in the works right now. Unless
> you're forcing air into the combustion chamber, you haven't increase the
> compression ratio. Which would be the only way that you would need to run
> 93 octane gas.

Re: use of higher octane gasoline
 

Falling asleep through Jafir Elkurd's post...

> Increasing the advance of the ignition timing could also necessitate
> higher octane fuel.

I know they can retard advance, but I haven't heard of a brand that
advances it. Unless you can name one :O

--
"If you can't change a tire, you're not allowed to have a beard. It's the
most basic part of a car: If you don't know that much about a car, you
really shouldn't be driving, should you?" - Jimmy Kimmel
http://www.cafeshops.com/creexul.2534632
Owner of the following: Henry Cotter - A.G.F.F., Eric Dreher AND mark
digital© - A.A.T., wiru the tired - A.F.D., and that Gino guy who keeps
chaning his nick on A.A.Acura.
http://acfsliars.0catch.com/todd

Re: use of higher octane gasoline
 

Falling asleep through Jafir Elkurd's post...

> Increasing the advance of the ignition timing could also necessitate
> higher octane fuel.

I know they can retard advance, but I haven't heard of a brand that
advances it. Unless you can name one :O

--
"If you can't change a tire, you're not allowed to have a beard. It's the
most basic part of a car: If you don't know that much about a car, you
really shouldn't be driving, should you?" - Jimmy Kimmel
http://www.cafeshops.com/creexul.2534632
Owner of the following: Henry Cotter - A.G.F.F., Eric Dreher AND mark
digital© - A.A.T., wiru the tired - A.F.D., and that Gino guy who keeps
chaning his nick on A.A.Acura.
http://acfsliars.0catch.com/todd

Re: use of higher octane gasoline
 

Falling asleep through Jafir Elkurd's post...

> Increasing the advance of the ignition timing could also necessitate
> higher octane fuel.

I know they can retard advance, but I haven't heard of a brand that
advances it. Unless you can name one :O

--
"If you can't change a tire, you're not allowed to have a beard. It's the
most basic part of a car: If you don't know that much about a car, you
really shouldn't be driving, should you?" - Jimmy Kimmel
http://www.cafeshops.com/creexul.2534632
Owner of the following: Henry Cotter - A.G.F.F., Eric Dreher AND mark
digital© - A.A.T., wiru the tired - A.F.D., and that Gino guy who keeps
chaning his nick on A.A.Acura.
http://acfsliars.0catch.com/todd

Re: use of higher octane gasoline
 

In article <Xns93FD3B5B2E245wyrmshutup@130.133.1.4>,
"Pahsons - Somnolent" <pahsonspam@juno.com> wrote:

> > Increasing the advance of the ignition timing could also necessitate
> > higher octane fuel.
>
> I know they can retard advance, but I haven't heard of a brand that
> advances it. Unless you can name one :O

You're right. The engine control computer is designed to operate the
engine at its performance parameters. A Corvette, for example, is
designed such that higher octane fuels allow the engine to operate to
its design limits--but using lower octane fuels won't damage the engine,
because the computer will do what it takes to elminate knocking and
pinging caused by lower octane fuels.

But putting avgas into this same Vette won't do anything extra for it.
Octane isn't a power booster. The octane level of a gas may allow the
engine to perform to its designed limits, but a higher octane gas won't
do anything to make the engine perform beyond that.

That being said, the question becomes: where did Honda engineers put
the design limits of the 03 Accord V6? They say use 86 octane fuel, and
you'll get the performance they advertise. But did they design the
engine and the computer such that the limits of the engine are beyond
that?

Some people are saying yes. I think it's bunk, so far. People who
really want to believe that octane levels are an indication of power are
trying to justify their use of higher octane fuels, when probably
they're just throwing their money away.

Until we see something documented--even a series of dyno runs--it
remains a net myth. And we know about those.

Re: use of higher octane gasoline
 

In article <Xns93FD3B5B2E245wyrmshutup@130.133.1.4>,
"Pahsons - Somnolent" <pahsonspam@juno.com> wrote:

> > Increasing the advance of the ignition timing could also necessitate
> > higher octane fuel.
>
> I know they can retard advance, but I haven't heard of a brand that
> advances it. Unless you can name one :O

You're right. The engine control computer is designed to operate the
engine at its performance parameters. A Corvette, for example, is
designed such that higher octane fuels allow the engine to operate to
its design limits--but using lower octane fuels won't damage the engine,
because the computer will do what it takes to elminate knocking and
pinging caused by lower octane fuels.

But putting avgas into this same Vette won't do anything extra for it.
Octane isn't a power booster. The octane level of a gas may allow the
engine to perform to its designed limits, but a higher octane gas won't
do anything to make the engine perform beyond that.

That being said, the question becomes: where did Honda engineers put
the design limits of the 03 Accord V6? They say use 86 octane fuel, and
you'll get the performance they advertise. But did they design the
engine and the computer such that the limits of the engine are beyond
that?

Some people are saying yes. I think it's bunk, so far. People who
really want to believe that octane levels are an indication of power are
trying to justify their use of higher octane fuels, when probably
they're just throwing their money away.

Until we see something documented--even a series of dyno runs--it
remains a net myth. And we know about those.

Re: use of higher octane gasoline
 

In article <Xns93FD3B5B2E245wyrmshutup@130.133.1.4>,
"Pahsons - Somnolent" <pahsonspam@juno.com> wrote:

> > Increasing the advance of the ignition timing could also necessitate
> > higher octane fuel.
>
> I know they can retard advance, but I haven't heard of a brand that
> advances it. Unless you can name one :O

You're right. The engine control computer is designed to operate the
engine at its performance parameters. A Corvette, for example, is
designed such that higher octane fuels allow the engine to operate to
its design limits--but using lower octane fuels won't damage the engine,
because the computer will do what it takes to elminate knocking and
pinging caused by lower octane fuels.

But putting avgas into this same Vette won't do anything extra for it.
Octane isn't a power booster. The octane level of a gas may allow the
engine to perform to its designed limits, but a higher octane gas won't
do anything to make the engine perform beyond that.

That being said, the question becomes: where did Honda engineers put
the design limits of the 03 Accord V6? They say use 86 octane fuel, and
you'll get the performance they advertise. But did they design the
engine and the computer such that the limits of the engine are beyond
that?

Some people are saying yes. I think it's bunk, so far. People who
really want to believe that octane levels are an indication of power are
trying to justify their use of higher octane fuels, when probably
they're just throwing their money away.

Until we see something documented--even a series of dyno runs--it
remains a net myth. And we know about those.

Re: use of higher octane gasoline
 

The source may be the USA Today review, 8-2-02: "(Charles) Baker (head of
Accord development) claims that - based on what we'll call field research by
him and Honda V-6 engineer Yasuaki Asaki - the four-cylinder Accord, rated
160 horsepower, accelerates head-to-head with the four-cylinder Altima,
rated 175 hp. And the 240-hp Accord V-6 outsprints the 240-hp Altima V-6, he
says....The Accord V-6 ratings assume regular-grade fuel, and Honda will
market it as a regular-fuel engine. But - pssst - it's good for another 10
hp and 10-plus lbs.-ft. on premium, acknowledges V-6 engineer Asaki."
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...1-accord_x.htm


"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:Eg1bb.89452$Yw.65623@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com. ..
> In article <bki6v1$qdr$1@news.onet.pl>,
> "Pete" <escape2music@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Apparently if you use the 93 oct gas, you get 10 extra hp from the new
V6
> > 240hp Honda engine, according to some Honda engineer.
>
> Ah, the net. Great source for random crap.
>
> Other than this anonymous Honda engineer that no one has ever actually
> seen or talked to, is there any other source for this? No, I didn't
> think so.
>
> And even if this were true, it would be true IF and ONLY IF the engine
> control computer were designed specifically for this situation.
>
> This guy's 99 Accord most definitely isn't designed for this.
>

Re: use of higher octane gasoline
 

The source may be the USA Today review, 8-2-02: "(Charles) Baker (head of
Accord development) claims that - based on what we'll call field research by
him and Honda V-6 engineer Yasuaki Asaki - the four-cylinder Accord, rated
160 horsepower, accelerates head-to-head with the four-cylinder Altima,
rated 175 hp. And the 240-hp Accord V-6 outsprints the 240-hp Altima V-6, he
says....The Accord V-6 ratings assume regular-grade fuel, and Honda will
market it as a regular-fuel engine. But - pssst - it's good for another 10
hp and 10-plus lbs.-ft. on premium, acknowledges V-6 engineer Asaki."
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...1-accord_x.htm


"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:Eg1bb.89452$Yw.65623@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com. ..
> In article <bki6v1$qdr$1@news.onet.pl>,
> "Pete" <escape2music@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Apparently if you use the 93 oct gas, you get 10 extra hp from the new
V6
> > 240hp Honda engine, according to some Honda engineer.
>
> Ah, the net. Great source for random crap.
>
> Other than this anonymous Honda engineer that no one has ever actually
> seen or talked to, is there any other source for this? No, I didn't
> think so.
>
> And even if this were true, it would be true IF and ONLY IF the engine
> control computer were designed specifically for this situation.
>
> This guy's 99 Accord most definitely isn't designed for this.
>

Re: use of higher octane gasoline
 

The source may be the USA Today review, 8-2-02: "(Charles) Baker (head of
Accord development) claims that - based on what we'll call field research by
him and Honda V-6 engineer Yasuaki Asaki - the four-cylinder Accord, rated
160 horsepower, accelerates head-to-head with the four-cylinder Altima,
rated 175 hp. And the 240-hp Accord V-6 outsprints the 240-hp Altima V-6, he
says....The Accord V-6 ratings assume regular-grade fuel, and Honda will
market it as a regular-fuel engine. But - pssst - it's good for another 10
hp and 10-plus lbs.-ft. on premium, acknowledges V-6 engineer Asaki."
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...1-accord_x.htm


"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:Eg1bb.89452$Yw.65623@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com. ..
> In article <bki6v1$qdr$1@news.onet.pl>,
> "Pete" <escape2music@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Apparently if you use the 93 oct gas, you get 10 extra hp from the new
V6
> > 240hp Honda engine, according to some Honda engineer.
>
> Ah, the net. Great source for random crap.
>
> Other than this anonymous Honda engineer that no one has ever actually
> seen or talked to, is there any other source for this? No, I didn't
> think so.
>
> And even if this were true, it would be true IF and ONLY IF the engine
> control computer were designed specifically for this situation.
>
> This guy's 99 Accord most definitely isn't designed for this.
>

Re: use of higher octane gasoline
 

On 9/20/2003 5:23 PM Elmo P. Shagnasty spake these words of knowledge:

> In article <bki9o7$2vj$1@news.onet.pl>,
> "Pete" <escape2music@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > And even if this were true, it would be true IF and ONLY IF the engine
>> > control computer were designed specifically for this situation.
>>
>> It may be smart enough to adjust timing - many ECUs can do it these days.
>
> But generally not in family haulers.

Honda says that my 2001 Odyssey (a family hauler if there ever was one)
produces more horsepower with 93 octane fuel. I can't swear what the
numbers are, but my recollection is 210 or 215 vs. 205 with 87 octane.
This may very well be a feature of the 2003 Accord V6 - my 2003 Accord
is the 4-banger, and I never saw reference to this.

RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen
--
"He loves nature in spite of what it did to him." - Forrest Tucker

Re: use of higher octane gasoline
 

On 9/20/2003 5:23 PM Elmo P. Shagnasty spake these words of knowledge:

> In article <bki9o7$2vj$1@news.onet.pl>,
> "Pete" <escape2music@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > And even if this were true, it would be true IF and ONLY IF the engine
>> > control computer were designed specifically for this situation.
>>
>> It may be smart enough to adjust timing - many ECUs can do it these days.
>
> But generally not in family haulers.

Honda says that my 2001 Odyssey (a family hauler if there ever was one)
produces more horsepower with 93 octane fuel. I can't swear what the
numbers are, but my recollection is 210 or 215 vs. 205 with 87 octane.
This may very well be a feature of the 2003 Accord V6 - my 2003 Accord
is the 4-banger, and I never saw reference to this.

RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen
--
"He loves nature in spite of what it did to him." - Forrest Tucker