Matt Whiting

DonC wrote:
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
> news:%JTOi.1309$Pv2.196@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net ...
>> "razz" <razz@mts.net> wrote in message
>> news:tCTOi.13529$495.535@newsfe22.lga...
>>> As a mechanic for many years, I have never, EVER seen an engine blown
>>> because the coolant wasn't changed, especially on a 3 year old vehicle.
>> Guys, read the fine print. This has nothing to do with the coolant level.
>> It has everything to do with adhering to the terms of the warranty. The
>> factory says you must change the coolant at 60,000 miles. No change,
>> warranty void. Simple legal terms.
>>
>> Razz, I'll give you $10,000. All you have to do is pick it up in person
>> here in northeast CT by 7:15. At 7:16 you are too late. Deal? Same with
>> the warranty. Do what they require or it is void.
>
> And when I get ready to replace my Sonata, I'll buy a Camry, or Accord ---
> anything but a Hyundai. And I'll advice my friends and family to NOT BUY a
> Hyundai because they don't live up to the spirit of their warranty. You're
> right: They're RIGHT -- DEAD RIGHT.

What is the spirit of their warranty?

Matt

kaboom

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:36:27 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net>
wrote:

>DonC wrote:
>> "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
>> news:%JTOi.1309$Pv2.196@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net ...
>>> "razz" <razz@mts.net> wrote in message
>>> news:tCTOi.13529$495.535@newsfe22.lga...
>>>> As a mechanic for many years, I have never, EVER seen an engine blown
>>>> because the coolant wasn't changed, especially on a 3 year old vehicle.
>>> Guys, read the fine print. This has nothing to do with the coolant level.
>>> It has everything to do with adhering to the terms of the warranty. The
>>> factory says you must change the coolant at 60,000 miles. No change,
>>> warranty void. Simple legal terms.
>>>
>>> Razz, I'll give you $10,000. All you have to do is pick it up in person
>>> here in northeast CT by 7:15. At 7:16 you are too late. Deal? Same with
>>> the warranty. Do what they require or it is void.
>>
>> And when I get ready to replace my Sonata, I'll buy a Camry, or Accord ---
>> anything but a Hyundai. And I'll advice my friends and family to NOT BUY a
>> Hyundai because they don't live up to the spirit of their warranty. You're
>> right: They're RIGHT -- DEAD RIGHT.
>
>What is the spirit of their warranty?

**In this case, it's the spirit of Warranty Past.

kaboomie

DonC

"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
news:LUWOi.259$2n4.17282@news1.epix.net...
> DonC wrote:
>> "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
>> news:%JTOi.1309$Pv2.196@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net ...
>>> "razz" <razz@mts.net> wrote in message
>>> news:tCTOi.13529$495.535@newsfe22.lga...
>>>> As a mechanic for many years, I have never, EVER seen an engine blown
>>>> because the coolant wasn't changed, especially on a 3 year old vehicle.
>>> Guys, read the fine print. This has nothing to do with the coolant
>>> level. It has everything to do with adhering to the terms of the
>>> warranty. The factory says you must change the coolant at 60,000 miles.
>>> No change, warranty void. Simple legal terms.
>>>
>>> Razz, I'll give you $10,000. All you have to do is pick it up in person
>>> here in northeast CT by 7:15. At 7:16 you are too late. Deal? Same
>>> with the warranty. Do what they require or it is void.
>>
>> And when I get ready to replace my Sonata, I'll buy a Camry, or
>> cord --- anything but a Hyundai. And I'll advice my friends and
>> family to NOT BUY a Hyundai because they don't live up to the spirit of
>> their warranty. You're right: They're RIGHT -- DEAD RIGHT.
>
> What is the spirit of their warranty?
>
> Matt

Pretty simple. "We've got the best warranty in the business!" And a "no
worry" assumption.

Isn't that how their ads come across to you?

Matt Whiting

DonC wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
> news:LUWOi.259$2n4.17282@news1.epix.net...
>> DonC wrote:
>>> "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
>>> news:%JTOi.1309$Pv2.196@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net ...
>>>> "razz" <razz@mts.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:tCTOi.13529$495.535@newsfe22.lga...
>>>>> As a mechanic for many years, I have never, EVER seen an engine blown
>>>>> because the coolant wasn't changed, especially on a 3 year old vehicle.
>>>> Guys, read the fine print. This has nothing to do with the coolant
>>>> level. It has everything to do with adhering to the terms of the
>>>> warranty. The factory says you must change the coolant at 60,000 miles.
>>>> No change, warranty void. Simple legal terms.
>>>>
>>>> Razz, I'll give you $10,000. All you have to do is pick it up in person
>>>> here in northeast CT by 7:15. At 7:16 you are too late. Deal? Same
>>>> with the warranty. Do what they require or it is void.
>>> And when I get ready to replace my Sonata, I'll buy a Camry, or
>>> cord --- anything but a Hyundai. And I'll advice my friends and
>>> family to NOT BUY a Hyundai because they don't live up to the spirit of
>>> their warranty. You're right: They're RIGHT -- DEAD RIGHT.
>> What is the spirit of their warranty?
>>
>> Matt
>
> Pretty simple. "We've got the best warranty in the business!" And a "no
> worry" assumption.

Yes, on the best warranty part, but, no, on the no worry assumption. I
also assume that I need to maintain the car per the manufacturer;s
recommendation if I wish to maintain warranty coverage. That is true
for every manufacturer I know of. Some will do "good will" repairs
outside the warranty period for known problems, but even this typically
requires that the car have been properly maintained.

A warranty is a contract and most contracts place responsibilities on at
least two parties. If either party doesn't fulfill their
responsibility,then the contract is void. We can argue whether or not
the failure to change the coolant was a factor in this case, and I can't
see how that alone could have been a factor, however, that is largely
irrelevant to the fact that the warranty requirements were not met. If
one part of the maintenance wasn't performed, what else wasn't done? I
suspect that we aren't hearing the full story here...

Matt

Mike Marlow

"DonC" <coondwc@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:rDUOi.12621$054.11249@newsfe14.phx...

>
> And when I get ready to replace my Sonata, I'll buy a Camry, or
> cord --- anything but a Hyundai. And I'll advice my friends and family
> to NOT BUY a Hyundai because they don't live up to the spirit of their
> warranty. You're right: They're RIGHT -- DEAD RIGHT.
>

And you expect any other warranty to be different? Hold fast though - this
story is far from over, If the OP ever re-posts here, it will be
interesting to hear what Hyundai's official position on this is - not some
dealership's opinion.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

jim

"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
news:%%1Pi.261$2n4.17342@news1.epix.net...

> Yes, on the best warranty part, but, no, on the no worry assumption. I
> also assume that I need to maintain the car per the manufacturer;s
> recommendation if I wish to maintain warranty coverage. That is true
> for every manufacturer I know of. Some will do "good will" repairs
> outside the warranty period for known problems, but even this typically
> requires that the car have been properly maintained.
>
> A warranty is a contract and most contracts place responsibilities on at
> least two parties. If either party doesn't fulfill their
> responsibility,then the contract is void. We can argue whether or not
> the failure to change the coolant was a factor in this case, and I can't
> see how that alone could have been a factor, however, that is largely
> irrelevant to the fact that the warranty requirements were not met. If
> one part of the maintenance wasn't performed, what else wasn't done? I
> suspect that we aren't hearing the full story here...
>
> Matt

So you are saying that if my Santa Fe transmission fails at 65000 miles and
I cannot prove I had the fluid checked at 25,000 miles but did have it
checked at 35,000 miles and it was OK, then the warranty is void??? I
don't think any court in the land was stand behind that decision.

Jim

DonC

"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
news:%%1Pi.261$2n4.17342@news1.epix.net...
> DonC wrote:
>> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
>> news:LUWOi.259$2n4.17282@news1.epix.net...
>>> DonC wrote:
>>>> "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:%JTOi.1309$Pv2.196@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net ...
>>>>> "razz" <razz@mts.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:tCTOi.13529$495.535@newsfe22.lga...
>>>>>> As a mechanic for many years, I have never, EVER seen an engine blown
>>>>>> because the coolant wasn't changed, especially on a 3 year old
>>>>>> vehicle.
>>>>> Guys, read the fine print. This has nothing to do with the coolant
>>>>> level. It has everything to do with adhering to the terms of the
>>>>> warranty. The factory says you must change the coolant at 60,000
>>>>> miles. No change, warranty void. Simple legal terms.
>>>>>
>>>>> Razz, I'll give you $10,000. All you have to do is pick it up in
>>>>> person here in northeast CT by 7:15. At 7:16 you are too late. Deal?
>>>>> Same with the warranty. Do what they require or it is void.
>>>> And when I get ready to replace my Sonata, I'll buy a Camry, or
>>>> rd --- anything but a Hyundai. And I'll advice my friends and
>>>> family to NOT BUY a Hyundai because they don't live up to the spirit of
>>>> their warranty. You're right: They're RIGHT -- DEAD RIGHT.
>>> What is the spirit of their warranty?
>>>
>>> Matt
>>
>> Pretty simple. "We've got the best warranty in the business!" And a "no
>> worry" assumption.
>
> Yes, on the best warranty part, but, no, on the no worry assumption. I
> also assume that I need to maintain the car per the manufacturer;s
> recommendation if I wish to maintain warranty coverage. That is true for
> every manufacturer I know of. Some will do "good will" repairs outside
> the warranty period for known problems, but even this typically requires
> that the car have been properly maintained.
>
> A warranty is a contract and most contracts place responsibilities on at
> least two parties. If either party doesn't fulfill their
> responsibility,then the contract is void. We can argue whether or not the
> failure to change the coolant was a factor in this case, and I can't see
> how that alone could have been a factor, however, that is largely
> irrelevant to the fact that the warranty requirements were not met. If
> one part of the maintenance wasn't performed, what else wasn't done? I
> suspect that we aren't hearing the full story here...
>
> Matt


If what we hear is 100% true, then Hyundai is not a "good will" manufacturer
and I want to deal with the "some" that are. The 200 miles is well within
"good will" range, IMHO.

But I can't disagree with your last sentence : )

irwell

On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 19:00:16 -0400, "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net>
wrote:

>
>"razz" <razz@mts.net> wrote in message
>news:tCTOi.13529$495.535@newsfe22.lga...
>> As a mechanic for many years, I have never, EVER seen an engine blown
>> because the coolant wasn't changed, especially on a 3 year old vehicle.
>
>Guys, read the fine print. This has nothing to do with the coolant level.
>It has everything to do with adhering to the terms of the warranty. The
>factory says you must change the coolant at 60,000 miles. No change,
>warranty void. Simple legal terms.

Or, as you pointed out in your first post, 60 months-this is an
important clause, as many people have cars that are over 60 months
old, but still under 50K mileage. My 2001 Elantra is just coming up to
50,000 miles, but has not had the coolant changed.

irwell

On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 01:35:22 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net>
wrote:


>
>All of that does not matter. The service manual states that coolant should
>be changed at 60,000 miles. If it is full and in perfect condition but not
>changed, they can deny coverage if the engine blows for any reason at 60,001
>miles.
>
>From the Hyundai web site
>COOLANT: FOR THE FIRST TIME, REPLACE THE COOLANT AT 60,000 MILES (96,000 KM)
OR 60 MONTHS, AFTER THAT, REPLACE IT EVEY 30,000 MILES (48,000) OR 24
>MONTHS.
>
I got caught with that time business on my 2001 Elantra, the door
locks were (still are) acting up, still under the 50K mileage, but
over the 5 year warranty clause, by about two weeks. The dealer
refused the free service. Next car will be another make from another
dealer.
BTW I had all the specified services, all changes etc., done by the
same dealer on time.

Matt Whiting

jim wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
> news:%%1Pi.261$2n4.17342@news1.epix.net...
>
>> Yes, on the best warranty part, but, no, on the no worry assumption. I
>> also assume that I need to maintain the car per the manufacturer;s
>> recommendation if I wish to maintain warranty coverage. That is true
>> for every manufacturer I know of. Some will do "good will" repairs
>> outside the warranty period for known problems, but even this typically
>> requires that the car have been properly maintained.
>>
>> A warranty is a contract and most contracts place responsibilities on at
>> least two parties. If either party doesn't fulfill their
>> responsibility,then the contract is void. We can argue whether or not
>> the failure to change the coolant was a factor in this case, and I can't
>> see how that alone could have been a factor, however, that is largely
>> irrelevant to the fact that the warranty requirements were not met. If
>> one part of the maintenance wasn't performed, what else wasn't done? I
>> suspect that we aren't hearing the full story here...
>>
>> Matt
>
> So you are saying that if my Santa Fe transmission fails at 65000 miles and
> I cannot prove I had the fluid checked at 25,000 miles but did have it
> checked at 35,000 miles and it was OK, then the warranty is void??? I
> don't think any court in the land was stand behind that decision.

I don't have a Santa Fe and I don't know what the maintenance
requirements are for one so I can't comment on the above scenario.

Matt

Vic Garcia

jim wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
> news:%%1Pi.261$2n4.17342@news1.epix.net...
>
>
>> Yes, on the best warranty part, but, no, on the no worry assumption. I
>> also assume that I need to maintain the car per the manufacturer;s
>> recommendation if I wish to maintain warranty coverage. That is true
>> for every manufacturer I know of. Some will do "good will" repairs
>> outside the warranty period for known problems, but even this typically
>> requires that the car have been properly maintained.
>>
>> A warranty is a contract and most contracts place responsibilities on at
>> least two parties. If either party doesn't fulfill their
>> responsibility,then the contract is void. We can argue whether or not
>> the failure to change the coolant was a factor in this case, and I can't
>> see how that alone could have been a factor, however, that is largely
>> irrelevant to the fact that the warranty requirements were not met. If
>> one part of the maintenance wasn't performed, what else wasn't done? I
>> suspect that we aren't hearing the full story here...
>>
>> Matt
>>
>
> So you are saying that if my Santa Fe transmission fails at 65000 miles and
> I cannot prove I had the fluid checked at 25,000 miles but did have it
> checked at 35,000 miles and it was OK, then the warranty is void??? I
> don't think any court in the land was stand behind that decision.
>
> Jim
>
Afraid that any court will stand behind.
First, the manual state that it must be CHANGED at 30K, not just cheked,
then again CHANGED it at 60K, 90K
you miss any, you are out of luck, period, that's the law, and yes, it's
fair, you do your part, they do their part.

jim

"Vic Garcia" <VicGar007@at-gmail.com> wrote in message news:470d52bc$0$9622$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
Afraid that any court will stand behind.
First, the manual state that it must be CHANGED at 30K, not just cheked, then again CHANGED it at 60K, 90K
you miss any, you are out of luck, period, that's the law, and yes, it's fair, you do your part, they do their part.

Let me change the example! I have my transmission fluid changed at 25,000 miles instead of 30,000 and it goes out at 58,000. Since I didn't have it changed at 30,000, is the warranty voided? Or is it voided because 33,000 miles were traveled without changing it?

What if I had it changed at 30,100 miles, would that void it? 29,900?

What if the first 3,500 miles following an oil change is all highway mileage and then the next 3,500 are city driving and I change the oil at 7001. Does that void the warranty? Get real!!!!

Jim

Edwin Pawlowski

"irwell" <hook@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> I got caught with that time business on my 2001 Elantra, the door
> locks were (still are) acting up, still under the 50K mileage, but
> over the 5 year warranty clause, by about two weeks. The dealer
> refused the free service. Next car will be another make from another
> dealer.
> BTW I had all the specified services, all changes etc., done by the
> same dealer on time.

Now that would **** me off. Wear items are mileage related but things like
door locks (in my case a heated seat in a GM car) are a different category.
Two week over for a dealer serviced car usually falls into the gray area and
a good dealer will try to help. Evidently yours does not want repeat
business.

Matt Whiting

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "irwell" <hook@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> I got caught with that time business on my 2001 Elantra, the door
>> locks were (still are) acting up, still under the 50K mileage, but
>> over the 5 year warranty clause, by about two weeks. The dealer
>> refused the free service. Next car will be another make from another
>> dealer.
>> BTW I had all the specified services, all changes etc., done by the
>> same dealer on time.
>
> Now that would **** me off. Wear items are mileage related but things like
> door locks (in my case a heated seat in a GM car) are a different category.
> Two week over for a dealer serviced car usually falls into the gray area and
> a good dealer will try to help. Evidently yours does not want repeat
> business.
>
>

Where do you draw the line if not at the time specified? If two weeks
over is OK, how about 1 month? If 1 month is OK, how about 6 months?
If 6 months, how about 1 year?

Matt

DonC

"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
news:STdPi.269$2n4.17367@news1.epix.net...
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>> "irwell" <hook@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> I got caught with that time business on my 2001 Elantra, the door
>>> locks were (still are) acting up, still under the 50K mileage, but
>>> over the 5 year warranty clause, by about two weeks. The dealer
>>> refused the free service. Next car will be another make from another
>>> dealer.
>>> BTW I had all the specified services, all changes etc., done by the
>>> same dealer on time.
>>
>> Now that would **** me off. Wear items are mileage related but things
>> like door locks (in my case a heated seat in a GM car) are a different
>> category. Two week over for a dealer serviced car usually falls into the
>> gray area and a good dealer will try to help. Evidently yours does not
>> want repeat business.
>
> Where do you draw the line if not at the time specified? If two weeks
> over is OK, how about 1 month? If 1 month is OK, how about 6 months? If 6
> months, how about 1 year?
>
> Matt

Matt,

You make many valid legal points. However we vote with our pocket books.
If the manufacturer appears to the average consumer to be unreasonable, the
manufacturer will undoubtedly lose at the next election. To paraphrase what
I said before: Hyundai may well be legally right -- but dead right the next
time around.