Matt Whiting

Michael wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
> news:Vrnvj.35$555.712@news1.epix.net...
>> Michael wrote:
>>> Thanks Darby, and for all the other posts.
>>>
>>> It just pisses me off that the clutch went out at 47K - I think it should
>>> have lasted longer, especially since it's not driven hard. Further, the
>>> flywheel has to be replaced - $1050 just for the part and no after market
>>> available. My personal opinion of Hyundai has really diminished to the
>>> point where I won't ever buy another one. Their warranty doesn't count
>>> for much of anything.
>> I agree that a clutch should last much longer than that under normal
>> conditions, but Hyundai has no idea as to whether your car was driven
>> "normally" or hard. The same problem exists with brake linings. I often
>> get 60,000 miles out of disk pads, yet I know many people lucky to get
>> 12,000 and you need only one ride with them to know why.
>>
>> The problem with wear items like this is that their life is necessity VERY
>> dependent on driver technique and the car maker has no control over that.
>> I'm concerned that my Sonata clutch is not going to have a long life as it
>> is a VERY hard car to drive such as to be easy on the clutch. The clutch
>> is too light with little feedback during engagement and the throttle is
>> like a switch. This makes if very hard to start out with anything less
>> than 1500 or so RPM. With my Chevy truck, I can modulate the throttle and
>> clutch such that I can start out smartly yet smoothly and never exceed
>> 1,000 RPM before the clutch is fully engaged. Doing this with my Sonata
>> is nearly impossible and can be done only with intense concentration and
>> with a very slow start - not very conducive to driving in heavy traffic
>> with a line of cars behind you waiting for you to get going.
>>
>> Matt
>
> Matt,
>
> I understand your point regarding items that wear and Hyundai having no idea
> whether the item was abused or not. That doesn't work for me though. It is
> too subjective, therefore there must be objective criteria for the service
> person to use in order to judge whether abuse or misuse ocurred.

Unfortunately, you are looking for an ideal that simply doesn't yet
exist. I suspect some day more cars will have "black boxes" that record
every move the driver makes which then makes these warranty issues much
more objective, although I suspect most car owners will NOT want such a
device in there car. The few cars that have even a simple black box now
are causing all sorts of consternation among their owners.

Matt

Matt Whiting

hyundaitech wrote:
> Matt wrote:
> "What do you mean by this? Do you mean that the spring center is in the
> flywheel rather than the clutch disk? By this I mean the springs that are
> oriented circumferentially and allow the disk to rotate slightly in
> relation to the splines so as to absorb rotational shocks."
>
> Pretty much. I've never actually tried to take one of these flywheels
> apart to see what the dampers look like, so I'm not sure that the
> mechanism looks like it does on the clutch disc. In this system, the
> clutch disc is solid-- the fibers are attached to the disc, which is part
> now essentially part of the hub, rather than being attached via the
> dampers (the circumferential spring assemblies). The flywheel has two
> parts, joined by a damper, and it's possible to turn the transmission side
> of the flywheel about 20 degrees or so with respect to the engine side.

Interesting. I wonder why Hyundai made this choice? Since these
dampers are likely to deteriorate with use, it seems much more prudent
to attach them to the primary wear component rather than a more
permanent component.

Matt

Matt Whiting

hyundaitech wrote:
> Since I'm not that great at describing things, I did some googling on "dual
> mass flywheel," and here's one of the better links I've found. It's the
> LuK website.
>
> http://www.luk.com/content.luk.de/en...ew/zms_new.jsp
>
> I do wish, however, everyone would stop using the verb "dampen" and the
> noun "dampener" to indicate the verb "damp" and the noun "damper." Am I
> alone in this?

No, but I've long given up trying to correct the unwashed masses that
can't seem to understand the difference.

Matt

Brian Nystrom

Michael wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
> news:Vrnvj.35$555.712@news1.epix.net...
>> Michael wrote:
>>> Thanks Darby, and for all the other posts.
>>>
>>> It just pisses me off that the clutch went out at 47K - I think it should
>>> have lasted longer, especially since it's not driven hard. Further, the
>>> flywheel has to be replaced - $1050 just for the part and no after market
>>> available. My personal opinion of Hyundai has really diminished to the
>>> point where I won't ever buy another one. Their warranty doesn't count
>>> for much of anything.
>> I agree that a clutch should last much longer than that under normal
>> conditions, but Hyundai has no idea as to whether your car was driven
>> "normally" or hard. The same problem exists with brake linings. I often
>> get 60,000 miles out of disk pads, yet I know many people lucky to get
>> 12,000 and you need only one ride with them to know why.
>>
>> The problem with wear items like this is that their life is necessity VERY
>> dependent on driver technique and the car maker has no control over that.
>> I'm concerned that my Sonata clutch is not going to have a long life as it
>> is a VERY hard car to drive such as to be easy on the clutch. The clutch
>> is too light with little feedback during engagement and the throttle is
>> like a switch. This makes if very hard to start out with anything less
>> than 1500 or so RPM. With my Chevy truck, I can modulate the throttle and
>> clutch such that I can start out smartly yet smoothly and never exceed
>> 1,000 RPM before the clutch is fully engaged. Doing this with my Sonata
>> is nearly impossible and can be done only with intense concentration and
>> with a very slow start - not very conducive to driving in heavy traffic
>> with a line of cars behind you waiting for you to get going.
>>
>> Matt
>
> Matt,
>
> I understand your point regarding items that wear and Hyundai having no idea
> whether the item was abused or not. That doesn't work for me though. It is
> too subjective, therefore there must be objective criteria for the service
> person to use in order to judge whether abuse or misuse ocurred.
>
> Thanks for the reply.

It's just not that simple. Doing things like slipping the clutch to hold
the car on hills will wear it out rapidly, but will likely not leave any
indications unless one really burns the clutch badly. I have no idea how
you drive and I'm not assuming anything, but clutch life it totally
dependent on driving technique and it doesn't necessarily have to do
with whether a car is driven "hard" or not. FWIW, my '04 Elantra has
almost 70K miles on it and the clutch is fine. I've gotten over 100K
miles out of the clutches on all but one of my my other cars (a '79
Saab, which were known for rapid clutch wear, but it was an easy DIY
repair) and hopefully, I will with this one, too.

Brian Nystrom

hyundaitech wrote:
> Since I'm not that great at describing things, I did some googling on "dual
> mass flywheel," and here's one of the better links I've found. It's the
> LuK website.
>
> http://www.luk.com/content.luk.de/en...ew/zms_new.jsp
>
> I do wish, however, everyone would stop using the verb "dampen" and the
> noun "dampener" to indicate the verb "damp" and the noun "damper." Am I
> alone in this?

No, you're not.