Determining oil change intervals via analysis
#301
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
In article <4NTAg.235$Db4.20752@news1.epix.net>,
Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote:
> The closest I've
> seen to a real-world test is the one that CR did many years ago with a
> taxi fleet. They found no measurable wear in engines changed at 6,000
> miles (if memory serves) running plain old dino oil.
And when you run your car like a taxi, 24/7 with the engine on, those
tests will be relevant to you.
If you drive your car like a stay at home mom, a couple miles here and
there with the engine never getting warm, that would create different
results.
Did CR test those kinds of conditions?
You can't extrapolate the CR taxi test into the normal world where cars
aren't run like taxis.
Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote:
> The closest I've
> seen to a real-world test is the one that CR did many years ago with a
> taxi fleet. They found no measurable wear in engines changed at 6,000
> miles (if memory serves) running plain old dino oil.
And when you run your car like a taxi, 24/7 with the engine on, those
tests will be relevant to you.
If you drive your car like a stay at home mom, a couple miles here and
there with the engine never getting warm, that would create different
results.
Did CR test those kinds of conditions?
You can't extrapolate the CR taxi test into the normal world where cars
aren't run like taxis.
#302
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
In article <2HTAg.232$Db4.20766@news1.epix.net>,
Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote:
> >>Show me that oil changes at 3,000 miles vs.
> >>10,000 make a difference.
> >
> >
> > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludg...ng_sludge.html
>
> I think your cut and paste keys are stuck. This is meaningless and you
> can't even figure that out.
You asked someone to show you something that could break inside the
engine due to insufficient oil changes. From that page: "If the owner
had left it long enough, the pickup would eventually have choked on the
sludge, causing oil starvation and engine seizure."
Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote:
> >>Show me that oil changes at 3,000 miles vs.
> >>10,000 make a difference.
> >
> >
> > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludg...ng_sludge.html
>
> I think your cut and paste keys are stuck. This is meaningless and you
> can't even figure that out.
You asked someone to show you something that could break inside the
engine due to insufficient oil changes. From that page: "If the owner
had left it long enough, the pickup would eventually have choked on the
sludge, causing oil starvation and engine seizure."
#303
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
In article <2HTAg.232$Db4.20766@news1.epix.net>,
Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote:
> >>Show me that oil changes at 3,000 miles vs.
> >>10,000 make a difference.
> >
> >
> > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludg...ng_sludge.html
>
> I think your cut and paste keys are stuck. This is meaningless and you
> can't even figure that out.
You asked someone to show you something that could break inside the
engine due to insufficient oil changes. From that page: "If the owner
had left it long enough, the pickup would eventually have choked on the
sludge, causing oil starvation and engine seizure."
Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote:
> >>Show me that oil changes at 3,000 miles vs.
> >>10,000 make a difference.
> >
> >
> > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludg...ng_sludge.html
>
> I think your cut and paste keys are stuck. This is meaningless and you
> can't even figure that out.
You asked someone to show you something that could break inside the
engine due to insufficient oil changes. From that page: "If the owner
had left it long enough, the pickup would eventually have choked on the
sludge, causing oil starvation and engine seizure."
#304
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
In article <2HTAg.232$Db4.20766@news1.epix.net>,
Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote:
> >>Show me that oil changes at 3,000 miles vs.
> >>10,000 make a difference.
> >
> >
> > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludg...ng_sludge.html
>
> I think your cut and paste keys are stuck. This is meaningless and you
> can't even figure that out.
You asked someone to show you something that could break inside the
engine due to insufficient oil changes. From that page: "If the owner
had left it long enough, the pickup would eventually have choked on the
sludge, causing oil starvation and engine seizure."
Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote:
> >>Show me that oil changes at 3,000 miles vs.
> >>10,000 make a difference.
> >
> >
> > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludg...ng_sludge.html
>
> I think your cut and paste keys are stuck. This is meaningless and you
> can't even figure that out.
You asked someone to show you something that could break inside the
engine due to insufficient oil changes. From that page: "If the owner
had left it long enough, the pickup would eventually have choked on the
sludge, causing oil starvation and engine seizure."
#305
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
news:aFTAg.230$Db4.20774@news1.epix.net...
>
> And why not change oil at 1,000 miles rather than 3,000 as that would
> reduce wear even more right? How about 500 miles? Why not change it
> every morning before going to work?
>
What!? You mean your wife does not do this for you now Matt? Man, we gotta
talk...
--
-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net
#306
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
news:aFTAg.230$Db4.20774@news1.epix.net...
>
> And why not change oil at 1,000 miles rather than 3,000 as that would
> reduce wear even more right? How about 500 miles? Why not change it
> every morning before going to work?
>
What!? You mean your wife does not do this for you now Matt? Man, we gotta
talk...
--
-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net
#307
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
news:aFTAg.230$Db4.20774@news1.epix.net...
>
> And why not change oil at 1,000 miles rather than 3,000 as that would
> reduce wear even more right? How about 500 miles? Why not change it
> every morning before going to work?
>
What!? You mean your wife does not do this for you now Matt? Man, we gotta
talk...
--
-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net
#308
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-C8D037.07192405082006@nntp2.usenetserver.com...
>
> And when you run your car like a taxi, 24/7 with the engine on, those
> tests will be relevant to you.
>
> If you drive your car like a stay at home mom, a couple miles here and
> there with the engine never getting warm, that would create different
> results.
>
> Did CR test those kinds of conditions?
>
> You can't extrapolate the CR taxi test into the normal world where cars
> aren't run like taxis.
>
Well, between the sludge link posts and this reply, you've pretty much
proven yourself to be completely in the dark. Here - just for the sake of
accuracy, I've pasted in that part of Matt's original response to me which
states exactly what you babble about above. You know the part - it's the
part you snipped to make your post.
Matt said...
"Now, there were several shortcomings in their test, in my opinion, such
as taxis don't really represent how most people drive as they rarely get
thermally cycled and there is reason to believe that cold starts are
one of the highest wear activities an engine sees. And, again if memory
serves, they ran the engines for only 60,000 miles. This is hardly a
stress test for a modern engine.
However, imperfect as it was, this is about the only test I've seen that
was even close to scientifically conducted."
It pays to read what is posted and to give yourself that extra minute to
think about it before snipping relevant parts and running off on tangents
with misrepresentations of what was said.
--
-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net
#309
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-C8D037.07192405082006@nntp2.usenetserver.com...
>
> And when you run your car like a taxi, 24/7 with the engine on, those
> tests will be relevant to you.
>
> If you drive your car like a stay at home mom, a couple miles here and
> there with the engine never getting warm, that would create different
> results.
>
> Did CR test those kinds of conditions?
>
> You can't extrapolate the CR taxi test into the normal world where cars
> aren't run like taxis.
>
Well, between the sludge link posts and this reply, you've pretty much
proven yourself to be completely in the dark. Here - just for the sake of
accuracy, I've pasted in that part of Matt's original response to me which
states exactly what you babble about above. You know the part - it's the
part you snipped to make your post.
Matt said...
"Now, there were several shortcomings in their test, in my opinion, such
as taxis don't really represent how most people drive as they rarely get
thermally cycled and there is reason to believe that cold starts are
one of the highest wear activities an engine sees. And, again if memory
serves, they ran the engines for only 60,000 miles. This is hardly a
stress test for a modern engine.
However, imperfect as it was, this is about the only test I've seen that
was even close to scientifically conducted."
It pays to read what is posted and to give yourself that extra minute to
think about it before snipping relevant parts and running off on tangents
with misrepresentations of what was said.
--
-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net
#310
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-C8D037.07192405082006@nntp2.usenetserver.com...
>
> And when you run your car like a taxi, 24/7 with the engine on, those
> tests will be relevant to you.
>
> If you drive your car like a stay at home mom, a couple miles here and
> there with the engine never getting warm, that would create different
> results.
>
> Did CR test those kinds of conditions?
>
> You can't extrapolate the CR taxi test into the normal world where cars
> aren't run like taxis.
>
Well, between the sludge link posts and this reply, you've pretty much
proven yourself to be completely in the dark. Here - just for the sake of
accuracy, I've pasted in that part of Matt's original response to me which
states exactly what you babble about above. You know the part - it's the
part you snipped to make your post.
Matt said...
"Now, there were several shortcomings in their test, in my opinion, such
as taxis don't really represent how most people drive as they rarely get
thermally cycled and there is reason to believe that cold starts are
one of the highest wear activities an engine sees. And, again if memory
serves, they ran the engines for only 60,000 miles. This is hardly a
stress test for a modern engine.
However, imperfect as it was, this is about the only test I've seen that
was even close to scientifically conducted."
It pays to read what is posted and to give yourself that extra minute to
think about it before snipping relevant parts and running off on tangents
with misrepresentations of what was said.
--
-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net
#311
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
"Bob Adkins" <bobad@charter.net> wrote in message
news:69r6d2hbvgcp6u41ildkitko4k8rdd9tb1@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 13:27:55 GMT, <HLS@nospam.nix> wrote:
>
>
> >No, I dont regard ignorance and stubbornness as virtues. There are a
> >lot of people who are impressed by apparently highly technical data
> >and specifications, and who really dont know what, if anything, it means.
>
> You would be surprised how easy it is to learn what the data means.
>
> That said, it isn't worth it. It's cheaper just to change the oil.
> --
> Bob
No, Bob. It isnt easly to learn what it means. It is easy to learn the
basics
of what it MIGHT mean. I am quite aware of what the chemical analyses
MIGHT mean.
It isnt even easy sometimes to get the same numbers from several different
oil analysis labs. $20-30 is measly when it comes to doing competent
chemical
analysis, even with modern equipment. Some of the labs give more
reproducible
data than others.
But for me, you are right...it isn't worth the time and cost.
#312
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
"Bob Adkins" <bobad@charter.net> wrote in message
news:69r6d2hbvgcp6u41ildkitko4k8rdd9tb1@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 13:27:55 GMT, <HLS@nospam.nix> wrote:
>
>
> >No, I dont regard ignorance and stubbornness as virtues. There are a
> >lot of people who are impressed by apparently highly technical data
> >and specifications, and who really dont know what, if anything, it means.
>
> You would be surprised how easy it is to learn what the data means.
>
> That said, it isn't worth it. It's cheaper just to change the oil.
> --
> Bob
No, Bob. It isnt easly to learn what it means. It is easy to learn the
basics
of what it MIGHT mean. I am quite aware of what the chemical analyses
MIGHT mean.
It isnt even easy sometimes to get the same numbers from several different
oil analysis labs. $20-30 is measly when it comes to doing competent
chemical
analysis, even with modern equipment. Some of the labs give more
reproducible
data than others.
But for me, you are right...it isn't worth the time and cost.
#313
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
"Bob Adkins" <bobad@charter.net> wrote in message
news:69r6d2hbvgcp6u41ildkitko4k8rdd9tb1@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 13:27:55 GMT, <HLS@nospam.nix> wrote:
>
>
> >No, I dont regard ignorance and stubbornness as virtues. There are a
> >lot of people who are impressed by apparently highly technical data
> >and specifications, and who really dont know what, if anything, it means.
>
> You would be surprised how easy it is to learn what the data means.
>
> That said, it isn't worth it. It's cheaper just to change the oil.
> --
> Bob
No, Bob. It isnt easly to learn what it means. It is easy to learn the
basics
of what it MIGHT mean. I am quite aware of what the chemical analyses
MIGHT mean.
It isnt even easy sometimes to get the same numbers from several different
oil analysis labs. $20-30 is measly when it comes to doing competent
chemical
analysis, even with modern equipment. Some of the labs give more
reproducible
data than others.
But for me, you are right...it isn't worth the time and cost.
#314
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
"Mike Marlow" <mmarlow@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:d8421$44d3f692$471fbb8f$9627@ALLTEL.NET...
That all by itself does not
> discredit what you do or what you support - it only says it doesn't offer
> enough for me. It may also be that if this discussion actually reached a
> level where some sort of empirical evidence was put forth, it might be
> obvious that the incremental value of more frequent changes, oil analysis,
> etc. simply do not offer a statistically significant benefit.
This is the way I feel about oil analyses.
There is a real shortage of hard data about how well synthetics and refined
petroleum
lubricants actually perform.
Flash points, and viscosity, and all the other bits of physical and chemical
data
mean little or nothing. I want statistical data, which -below the bottom
line - will
tell what it costs to deliver certain levels of protection and performance.
And you wont get this with cheapass chemical analyses, or even oil company
product
hype.
#315
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
"Mike Marlow" <mmarlow@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:d8421$44d3f692$471fbb8f$9627@ALLTEL.NET...
That all by itself does not
> discredit what you do or what you support - it only says it doesn't offer
> enough for me. It may also be that if this discussion actually reached a
> level where some sort of empirical evidence was put forth, it might be
> obvious that the incremental value of more frequent changes, oil analysis,
> etc. simply do not offer a statistically significant benefit.
This is the way I feel about oil analyses.
There is a real shortage of hard data about how well synthetics and refined
petroleum
lubricants actually perform.
Flash points, and viscosity, and all the other bits of physical and chemical
data
mean little or nothing. I want statistical data, which -below the bottom
line - will
tell what it costs to deliver certain levels of protection and performance.
And you wont get this with cheapass chemical analyses, or even oil company
product
hype.