Determining oil change intervals via analysis
#406
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
jcr wrote:
> > On 8/4/2006 10:39 PM ... Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>
>>> In article <WNPAg.220$Db4.20522@news1.epix.net>,
>>> Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Well, but parts can easily fail due to infrequent oil changes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Which parts and how do they fail?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludg...ng_sludge.html
>>
>>
>> Yes, some Toyota engines and one Chrysler engine (the 2.7 as I recall)
>> have design errors that cause sludge formation. Frequent oil changes
>> have little affect on this, but changing to synthetic helps a lot.
>>
>> And something is really fishy with this story. I don't believe the
>> 8700 miles for a second. Even sludge prone engines won't build this
>> much sludge in that little mileage. There is more to this than meets
>> the eye. I suspect odometer tampering or possibly even an engine swap
>> with a high mileage engine in order to use the new one for anothe
>> vehicle.
>>
>> Matt
>
>
> Constant short 3-4 mile trips could do it.
Possibly. If this 8700 miles was over a several year period, especially
in a cold slimate, then I can see this possibly happening. The site
simply has too few details to make an accurate assessment.
Matt
> > On 8/4/2006 10:39 PM ... Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>
>>> In article <WNPAg.220$Db4.20522@news1.epix.net>,
>>> Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Well, but parts can easily fail due to infrequent oil changes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Which parts and how do they fail?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludg...ng_sludge.html
>>
>>
>> Yes, some Toyota engines and one Chrysler engine (the 2.7 as I recall)
>> have design errors that cause sludge formation. Frequent oil changes
>> have little affect on this, but changing to synthetic helps a lot.
>>
>> And something is really fishy with this story. I don't believe the
>> 8700 miles for a second. Even sludge prone engines won't build this
>> much sludge in that little mileage. There is more to this than meets
>> the eye. I suspect odometer tampering or possibly even an engine swap
>> with a high mileage engine in order to use the new one for anothe
>> vehicle.
>>
>> Matt
>
>
> Constant short 3-4 mile trips could do it.
Possibly. If this 8700 miles was over a several year period, especially
in a cold slimate, then I can see this possibly happening. The site
simply has too few details to make an accurate assessment.
Matt
#407
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote
in an exchange with Elmo and others
>>>>>> Well, but parts can easily fail due to infrequent oil
>>>>>> changes.
>>>>> Which parts and how do they fail?
>>>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludg...ng_sludge.html
>> Constant short 3-4 mile trips could do it.
>
> Possibly. If this 8700 miles was over a several year
> period, especially in a cold slimate, then I can see this
> possibly happening. The site simply has too few details
> to make an accurate assessment.
The posting of the link above misleads. Indications are that
the engine shown at the site above has an "oil gelling"
problem known to certain Toyotas and in fact resulting in a
special warranty from Toyota. See
http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=&did=566 , among
other sites that discuss this.
A poorly designed PCV system is arguably the main cause.
Note the mention of the warranty at the Tegger.com site. See
also commentary at the link below from the technician who
worked on this Toyota engine. As of January, 2006, he (and
others with expertise, it seems) puts some blame on
insufficient oil changes, but just as much blame on the PCV
system, which evidently is less tolerant of low oil change
frequency compared to many other makes and models.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.a...e16042141f52bc
For more on oil gelling in certain Toyotas, see
http://www.carfax.com/car_safety/rat...OYT4DFCAMRY_LE
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...06/ai_n9093540
in an exchange with Elmo and others
>>>>>> Well, but parts can easily fail due to infrequent oil
>>>>>> changes.
>>>>> Which parts and how do they fail?
>>>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludg...ng_sludge.html
>> Constant short 3-4 mile trips could do it.
>
> Possibly. If this 8700 miles was over a several year
> period, especially in a cold slimate, then I can see this
> possibly happening. The site simply has too few details
> to make an accurate assessment.
The posting of the link above misleads. Indications are that
the engine shown at the site above has an "oil gelling"
problem known to certain Toyotas and in fact resulting in a
special warranty from Toyota. See
http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=&did=566 , among
other sites that discuss this.
A poorly designed PCV system is arguably the main cause.
Note the mention of the warranty at the Tegger.com site. See
also commentary at the link below from the technician who
worked on this Toyota engine. As of January, 2006, he (and
others with expertise, it seems) puts some blame on
insufficient oil changes, but just as much blame on the PCV
system, which evidently is less tolerant of low oil change
frequency compared to many other makes and models.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.a...e16042141f52bc
For more on oil gelling in certain Toyotas, see
http://www.carfax.com/car_safety/rat...OYT4DFCAMRY_LE
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...06/ai_n9093540
#408
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote
in an exchange with Elmo and others
>>>>>> Well, but parts can easily fail due to infrequent oil
>>>>>> changes.
>>>>> Which parts and how do they fail?
>>>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludg...ng_sludge.html
>> Constant short 3-4 mile trips could do it.
>
> Possibly. If this 8700 miles was over a several year
> period, especially in a cold slimate, then I can see this
> possibly happening. The site simply has too few details
> to make an accurate assessment.
The posting of the link above misleads. Indications are that
the engine shown at the site above has an "oil gelling"
problem known to certain Toyotas and in fact resulting in a
special warranty from Toyota. See
http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=&did=566 , among
other sites that discuss this.
A poorly designed PCV system is arguably the main cause.
Note the mention of the warranty at the Tegger.com site. See
also commentary at the link below from the technician who
worked on this Toyota engine. As of January, 2006, he (and
others with expertise, it seems) puts some blame on
insufficient oil changes, but just as much blame on the PCV
system, which evidently is less tolerant of low oil change
frequency compared to many other makes and models.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.a...e16042141f52bc
For more on oil gelling in certain Toyotas, see
http://www.carfax.com/car_safety/rat...OYT4DFCAMRY_LE
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...06/ai_n9093540
in an exchange with Elmo and others
>>>>>> Well, but parts can easily fail due to infrequent oil
>>>>>> changes.
>>>>> Which parts and how do they fail?
>>>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludg...ng_sludge.html
>> Constant short 3-4 mile trips could do it.
>
> Possibly. If this 8700 miles was over a several year
> period, especially in a cold slimate, then I can see this
> possibly happening. The site simply has too few details
> to make an accurate assessment.
The posting of the link above misleads. Indications are that
the engine shown at the site above has an "oil gelling"
problem known to certain Toyotas and in fact resulting in a
special warranty from Toyota. See
http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=&did=566 , among
other sites that discuss this.
A poorly designed PCV system is arguably the main cause.
Note the mention of the warranty at the Tegger.com site. See
also commentary at the link below from the technician who
worked on this Toyota engine. As of January, 2006, he (and
others with expertise, it seems) puts some blame on
insufficient oil changes, but just as much blame on the PCV
system, which evidently is less tolerant of low oil change
frequency compared to many other makes and models.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.a...e16042141f52bc
For more on oil gelling in certain Toyotas, see
http://www.carfax.com/car_safety/rat...OYT4DFCAMRY_LE
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...06/ai_n9093540
#409
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
news:49CdnTDWkJc4cknZnZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
> ah, the old inference argument! why not direct contradiction?
Infernece argument? Sounds like you are used to being confronted about your
use of such tactics as red herrings. Why not direct contradiction? You
seemed to have missed the point where I told you that contrary to what you'd
like to have available as your argument, folks here consistently keep their
cars running very strong at and above 200K.
>
> er, consider two things:
>
> 1. if a wear rate is X for a given lube regime, and service life is Y,
> we can figure out what the service interval needs to be.
>
> 2. now, if you want to alter Y, what do you need to change in the above?
Again with the irrelevant hogwash. You are indeed proving yourself to be
well uninformed.
> well, you keep on doing what you want to do. i'm just an anonymous
> troll that can't be bothered to spoon feed people stuff they don't want
> to hear. but if you care to dabble in the high mileage used car market,
> you may get to be more familiar with the direct results to the concept
> outlined above.
That you are. Too many of us here have actually maintained and driven
vehicles to that level of "high mileage used car" as you refer to it for us
to allow baseless claims to prevail. That, I suggest is the difference
between those who challenge you here and your own experiences. We've
actually done it.
--
-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net
#410
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
news:49CdnTDWkJc4cknZnZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
> ah, the old inference argument! why not direct contradiction?
Infernece argument? Sounds like you are used to being confronted about your
use of such tactics as red herrings. Why not direct contradiction? You
seemed to have missed the point where I told you that contrary to what you'd
like to have available as your argument, folks here consistently keep their
cars running very strong at and above 200K.
>
> er, consider two things:
>
> 1. if a wear rate is X for a given lube regime, and service life is Y,
> we can figure out what the service interval needs to be.
>
> 2. now, if you want to alter Y, what do you need to change in the above?
Again with the irrelevant hogwash. You are indeed proving yourself to be
well uninformed.
> well, you keep on doing what you want to do. i'm just an anonymous
> troll that can't be bothered to spoon feed people stuff they don't want
> to hear. but if you care to dabble in the high mileage used car market,
> you may get to be more familiar with the direct results to the concept
> outlined above.
That you are. Too many of us here have actually maintained and driven
vehicles to that level of "high mileage used car" as you refer to it for us
to allow baseless claims to prevail. That, I suggest is the difference
between those who challenge you here and your own experiences. We've
actually done it.
--
-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net
#411
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 23:17:49 GMT, Brian Nystrom <brian.nystrom@verizon.net>
wrote:
>> Why not say:
>>
>> Dino oil... Change at 3000-5000 miles.
>> Syn oil... Change at 4000-7000 miles.
>
>There's one really good reason, Hyundai recommends changes every 7500
>miles with "dino" oil.
The 7500 is for normal conditions. Hyundai recommends changing oil more
frequently for severe conditions, thus the above range. Ya, I'm a little
conservative because I never know how people treat their cars or the
conditions in which they drive.
--
Bob
wrote:
>> Why not say:
>>
>> Dino oil... Change at 3000-5000 miles.
>> Syn oil... Change at 4000-7000 miles.
>
>There's one really good reason, Hyundai recommends changes every 7500
>miles with "dino" oil.
The 7500 is for normal conditions. Hyundai recommends changing oil more
frequently for severe conditions, thus the above range. Ya, I'm a little
conservative because I never know how people treat their cars or the
conditions in which they drive.
--
Bob
#412
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 23:17:49 GMT, Brian Nystrom <brian.nystrom@verizon.net>
wrote:
>> Why not say:
>>
>> Dino oil... Change at 3000-5000 miles.
>> Syn oil... Change at 4000-7000 miles.
>
>There's one really good reason, Hyundai recommends changes every 7500
>miles with "dino" oil.
The 7500 is for normal conditions. Hyundai recommends changing oil more
frequently for severe conditions, thus the above range. Ya, I'm a little
conservative because I never know how people treat their cars or the
conditions in which they drive.
--
Bob
wrote:
>> Why not say:
>>
>> Dino oil... Change at 3000-5000 miles.
>> Syn oil... Change at 4000-7000 miles.
>
>There's one really good reason, Hyundai recommends changes every 7500
>miles with "dino" oil.
The 7500 is for normal conditions. Hyundai recommends changing oil more
frequently for severe conditions, thus the above range. Ya, I'm a little
conservative because I never know how people treat their cars or the
conditions in which they drive.
--
Bob
#413
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
1996 Accord LX, 4-cyl. 176k, uses no oil, runs like a top. Change 7500,
using Amsoil Full Synthetic.
So what are people going to do now with the new Honda maintenance indicator?
Change when the guage tells you you have 60% life left on the oil?
Stop wasting oil people. The shops ALL want you to change at 3k! hell,
they are making 3 times the money off you!
G-Man
PS, I only quote the '96 because it's the oldest car I have now, the story
has been the same for all my Hondas, and I'm on number 14 now. If I get to
250k and find out that if I had changed every 3k I could have gone to 300k,
I still feel like I won :-)
"dbltap" <DoubleTap@37.com> wrote in message
news:1ucAg.2477$xp2.1947@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> http://www.autoblog.com/2006/08/02/d...-via-analysis/
>
using Amsoil Full Synthetic.
So what are people going to do now with the new Honda maintenance indicator?
Change when the guage tells you you have 60% life left on the oil?
Stop wasting oil people. The shops ALL want you to change at 3k! hell,
they are making 3 times the money off you!
G-Man
PS, I only quote the '96 because it's the oldest car I have now, the story
has been the same for all my Hondas, and I'm on number 14 now. If I get to
250k and find out that if I had changed every 3k I could have gone to 300k,
I still feel like I won :-)
"dbltap" <DoubleTap@37.com> wrote in message
news:1ucAg.2477$xp2.1947@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> http://www.autoblog.com/2006/08/02/d...-via-analysis/
>
#414
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
1996 Accord LX, 4-cyl. 176k, uses no oil, runs like a top. Change 7500,
using Amsoil Full Synthetic.
So what are people going to do now with the new Honda maintenance indicator?
Change when the guage tells you you have 60% life left on the oil?
Stop wasting oil people. The shops ALL want you to change at 3k! hell,
they are making 3 times the money off you!
G-Man
PS, I only quote the '96 because it's the oldest car I have now, the story
has been the same for all my Hondas, and I'm on number 14 now. If I get to
250k and find out that if I had changed every 3k I could have gone to 300k,
I still feel like I won :-)
"dbltap" <DoubleTap@37.com> wrote in message
news:1ucAg.2477$xp2.1947@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> http://www.autoblog.com/2006/08/02/d...-via-analysis/
>
using Amsoil Full Synthetic.
So what are people going to do now with the new Honda maintenance indicator?
Change when the guage tells you you have 60% life left on the oil?
Stop wasting oil people. The shops ALL want you to change at 3k! hell,
they are making 3 times the money off you!
G-Man
PS, I only quote the '96 because it's the oldest car I have now, the story
has been the same for all my Hondas, and I'm on number 14 now. If I get to
250k and find out that if I had changed every 3k I could have gone to 300k,
I still feel like I won :-)
"dbltap" <DoubleTap@37.com> wrote in message
news:1ucAg.2477$xp2.1947@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> http://www.autoblog.com/2006/08/02/d...-via-analysis/
>
#415
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 10:32:32 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>In article <b4a9d2h68mivpv5kqvsmeig1ab3k1ftuus@4ax.com>,
> gerry <gerrrry__net@gogood.com> wrote:
>
>> >http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludg...ng_sludge.html
>>
>>
>> Any engine that bad in 8700 miles has something seriously wrong other
>> than oil change intervals.
>
>You have absolutely no proof of that, therefore you cannot claim that.
>
>Until you have proof, you must shut up. That's the new rule around here.
You presented is evidence in an oil change discussion. You have no
evidence it was oil change related so shut up.
gerry
--
Personal home page - http://gogood.com
gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots
On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 10:32:32 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>In article <b4a9d2h68mivpv5kqvsmeig1ab3k1ftuus@4ax.com>,
> gerry <gerrrry__net@gogood.com> wrote:
>
>> >http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludg...ng_sludge.html
>>
>>
>> Any engine that bad in 8700 miles has something seriously wrong other
>> than oil change intervals.
>
>You have absolutely no proof of that, therefore you cannot claim that.
>
>Until you have proof, you must shut up. That's the new rule around here.
You presented is evidence in an oil change discussion. You have no
evidence it was oil change related so shut up.
gerry
--
Personal home page - http://gogood.com
gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots
#416
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 10:32:32 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>In article <b4a9d2h68mivpv5kqvsmeig1ab3k1ftuus@4ax.com>,
> gerry <gerrrry__net@gogood.com> wrote:
>
>> >http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludg...ng_sludge.html
>>
>>
>> Any engine that bad in 8700 miles has something seriously wrong other
>> than oil change intervals.
>
>You have absolutely no proof of that, therefore you cannot claim that.
>
>Until you have proof, you must shut up. That's the new rule around here.
You presented is evidence in an oil change discussion. You have no
evidence it was oil change related so shut up.
gerry
--
Personal home page - http://gogood.com
gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots
On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 10:32:32 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>In article <b4a9d2h68mivpv5kqvsmeig1ab3k1ftuus@4ax.com>,
> gerry <gerrrry__net@gogood.com> wrote:
>
>> >http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludg...ng_sludge.html
>>
>>
>> Any engine that bad in 8700 miles has something seriously wrong other
>> than oil change intervals.
>
>You have absolutely no proof of that, therefore you cannot claim that.
>
>Until you have proof, you must shut up. That's the new rule around here.
You presented is evidence in an oil change discussion. You have no
evidence it was oil change related so shut up.
gerry
--
Personal home page - http://gogood.com
gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots
#417
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
G-Man wrote:
>
> So what are people going to do now with the new Honda maintenance indicator?
> Change when the guage tells you you have 60% life left on the oil?
>
The oil change indicator on my new Honda (2004) reminds me to change
oil every 10,000 miles. It does not indicate % life left. Honda does
not require full synthetic oil. I think that after 10,000 miles an
owner shouldn't be concerned about wasting oil by changing it. What do
you think?
#418
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
G-Man wrote:
>
> So what are people going to do now with the new Honda maintenance indicator?
> Change when the guage tells you you have 60% life left on the oil?
>
The oil change indicator on my new Honda (2004) reminds me to change
oil every 10,000 miles. It does not indicate % life left. Honda does
not require full synthetic oil. I think that after 10,000 miles an
owner shouldn't be concerned about wasting oil by changing it. What do
you think?
#419
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 10:31:44 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>In article <u9a9d2ptl4ea2k42f0irn43c378shc56tf@4ax.com>,
> gerry <gerrrry__net@gogood.com> wrote:
>
>> Heck, at this rate, redirect the oil flow so it is never re circulated
>> Add a 100 gallon fresh oil tank and 100 gal holding tank. Ship the
>> "used oil" off to be fully reclaimed to original purity.
>>
>> That seems the direction the ultra frequent changers really recommend
>
>And if it cost, oh, $20 for every 3000 miles to do that, why wouldn't
>you?
>
>Oh--I see. In your world, there's no room for cost/benefit analysis.
Analysis of carefully collected data, sure. Wild speculation, no.
gerry
--
Personal home page - http://gogood.com
gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots
On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 10:31:44 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>In article <u9a9d2ptl4ea2k42f0irn43c378shc56tf@4ax.com>,
> gerry <gerrrry__net@gogood.com> wrote:
>
>> Heck, at this rate, redirect the oil flow so it is never re circulated
>> Add a 100 gallon fresh oil tank and 100 gal holding tank. Ship the
>> "used oil" off to be fully reclaimed to original purity.
>>
>> That seems the direction the ultra frequent changers really recommend
>
>And if it cost, oh, $20 for every 3000 miles to do that, why wouldn't
>you?
>
>Oh--I see. In your world, there's no room for cost/benefit analysis.
Analysis of carefully collected data, sure. Wild speculation, no.
gerry
--
Personal home page - http://gogood.com
gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots
#420
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 10:31:44 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>In article <u9a9d2ptl4ea2k42f0irn43c378shc56tf@4ax.com>,
> gerry <gerrrry__net@gogood.com> wrote:
>
>> Heck, at this rate, redirect the oil flow so it is never re circulated
>> Add a 100 gallon fresh oil tank and 100 gal holding tank. Ship the
>> "used oil" off to be fully reclaimed to original purity.
>>
>> That seems the direction the ultra frequent changers really recommend
>
>And if it cost, oh, $20 for every 3000 miles to do that, why wouldn't
>you?
>
>Oh--I see. In your world, there's no room for cost/benefit analysis.
Analysis of carefully collected data, sure. Wild speculation, no.
gerry
--
Personal home page - http://gogood.com
gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots
On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 10:31:44 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>In article <u9a9d2ptl4ea2k42f0irn43c378shc56tf@4ax.com>,
> gerry <gerrrry__net@gogood.com> wrote:
>
>> Heck, at this rate, redirect the oil flow so it is never re circulated
>> Add a 100 gallon fresh oil tank and 100 gal holding tank. Ship the
>> "used oil" off to be fully reclaimed to original purity.
>>
>> That seems the direction the ultra frequent changers really recommend
>
>And if it cost, oh, $20 for every 3000 miles to do that, why wouldn't
>you?
>
>Oh--I see. In your world, there's no room for cost/benefit analysis.
Analysis of carefully collected data, sure. Wild speculation, no.
gerry
--
Personal home page - http://gogood.com
gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots