Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure!
11-09-2007, 11:09 PM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure!
Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil filters
for the Sonata. I had purchased a Fram PH9999. I took several pictures of
it - the filter, O rings, and took similar pictures of the genuine Hyundai
filter. Matt Whiting had the following to say: "The pictures are very nice.
In the pictures, it appears that both the filter media and the inner o-rings
(I think they are o-rings anyway) are a different color from the Hyundai
filter. This may be inconsequential or it may mean that these materials are
materially (pun intended!) different from the Hyundai filter. I'd want to
know if this was my engine."
Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, I did an oil
change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All was well until
I noticed the oil stain on my driveway yesterday. (My wife drives the car).
This morning, I looked under the hood, and found oil had been leaking from
between the cap and the filter housing. I tried to give it a turn, and found
it tight. I started the engine, and the entire filter housing was almost
immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap off, hoping that it wasn't
cracked.
It wasn't. The O ring for the cap was flat. It actually had hardened. I've
changed the oil in the car like 6 times now, and the Hyundai O ring was
still round and soft (flexible) when replaced. The Fram O ring actually is
now flat on the outside, and was really hard. I have pictures of the Hyundai
O ring I replaced it with up against the Fram O ring I removed. My server is
currently dead, so I anyone's got either a way to host them, or suggestions
as to how I can link to them, let me know (my email address is valid), and
I'll either email them to you, or follow whatever instructions so everyone
can see.
I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the past few
days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on the driveway, and
the way the oil flowed out, it would have made a really big puddle, and ran
the oil level down in the car. I suspect that as soon as the oil warms, it
quits leaking.
I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I can
picture how their customer service would react - denial.
for the Sonata. I had purchased a Fram PH9999. I took several pictures of
it - the filter, O rings, and took similar pictures of the genuine Hyundai
filter. Matt Whiting had the following to say: "The pictures are very nice.
In the pictures, it appears that both the filter media and the inner o-rings
(I think they are o-rings anyway) are a different color from the Hyundai
filter. This may be inconsequential or it may mean that these materials are
materially (pun intended!) different from the Hyundai filter. I'd want to
know if this was my engine."
Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, I did an oil
change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All was well until
I noticed the oil stain on my driveway yesterday. (My wife drives the car).
This morning, I looked under the hood, and found oil had been leaking from
between the cap and the filter housing. I tried to give it a turn, and found
it tight. I started the engine, and the entire filter housing was almost
immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap off, hoping that it wasn't
cracked.
It wasn't. The O ring for the cap was flat. It actually had hardened. I've
changed the oil in the car like 6 times now, and the Hyundai O ring was
still round and soft (flexible) when replaced. The Fram O ring actually is
now flat on the outside, and was really hard. I have pictures of the Hyundai
O ring I replaced it with up against the Fram O ring I removed. My server is
currently dead, so I anyone's got either a way to host them, or suggestions
as to how I can link to them, let me know (my email address is valid), and
I'll either email them to you, or follow whatever instructions so everyone
can see.
I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the past few
days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on the driveway, and
the way the oil flowed out, it would have made a really big puddle, and ran
the oil level down in the car. I suspect that as soon as the oil warms, it
quits leaking.
I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I can
picture how their customer service would react - denial.
11-10-2007, 12:49 AM
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure!
"Bob" <bobsjunkmail@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:x9aZi.1139$oa.352@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>
> Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, I did an
> oil change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All was well
> until I noticed the oil stain on my driveway yesterday. (My wife drives
> the car). This morning, I looked under the hood, and found oil had been
> leaking from between the cap and the filter housing. I tried to give it a
> turn, and found it tight. I started the engine, and the entire filter
> housing was almost immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap off,
> hoping that it wasn't cracked.
That sucks.
>
> I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the past few
> days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on the driveway,
> and the way the oil flowed out, it would have made a really big puddle,
> and ran the oil level down in the car. I suspect that as soon as the oil
> warms, it quits leaking.
>
> I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I can
> picture how their customer service would react - denial.
>
>
Why assume that? While it may indeed be true, you have nothing at all to
base that assumption on. Why not provide Fram the evidence you are so
willing to share here, and see exactly *what* they have to say.
--
-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net
11-10-2007, 07:33 AM
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure!
I second Mike's motion. You should contact Fram and DOCUMENT the filter
gasket's failure in case you have engine problems. A follow up with a
registered letter would be my second step. Fram is a very reputable
company, despite how they get slammed on this forum, and should welcome the
information about the gasket material. It sounds as if they may have
changed gasket material. Probably, as is so frequent today, they outsourced
the gaskets (maybe the entire filter) to China and got what they paid
for-junk. It happened to me at my work when our closure supplier changed
their gasket source to China and, without their knowledge, the material was
also changed to something cheaper.
China will destroy our economy...................
Tom
"Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:a5458$47354669$6210799e$26753@ALLTEL.NET...
>
> "Bob" <bobsjunkmail@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:x9aZi.1139$oa.352@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>
>>
>> Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, I did an
>> oil change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All was well
>> until I noticed the oil stain on my driveway yesterday. (My wife drives
>> the car). This morning, I looked under the hood, and found oil had been
>> leaking from between the cap and the filter housing. I tried to give it a
>> turn, and found it tight. I started the engine, and the entire filter
>> housing was almost immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap off,
>> hoping that it wasn't cracked.
>
> That sucks.
>
>
>>
>> I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the past few
>> days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on the driveway,
>> and the way the oil flowed out, it would have made a really big puddle,
>> and ran the oil level down in the car. I suspect that as soon as the oil
>> warms, it quits leaking.
>>
>> I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I can
>> picture how their customer service would react - denial.
>>
>>
>
> Why assume that? While it may indeed be true, you have nothing at all to
> base that assumption on. Why not provide Fram the evidence you are so
> willing to share here, and see exactly *what* they have to say.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net
>
gasket's failure in case you have engine problems. A follow up with a
registered letter would be my second step. Fram is a very reputable
company, despite how they get slammed on this forum, and should welcome the
information about the gasket material. It sounds as if they may have
changed gasket material. Probably, as is so frequent today, they outsourced
the gaskets (maybe the entire filter) to China and got what they paid
for-junk. It happened to me at my work when our closure supplier changed
their gasket source to China and, without their knowledge, the material was
also changed to something cheaper.
China will destroy our economy...................
Tom
"Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:a5458$47354669$6210799e$26753@ALLTEL.NET...
>
> "Bob" <bobsjunkmail@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:x9aZi.1139$oa.352@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>
>>
>> Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, I did an
>> oil change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All was well
>> until I noticed the oil stain on my driveway yesterday. (My wife drives
>> the car). This morning, I looked under the hood, and found oil had been
>> leaking from between the cap and the filter housing. I tried to give it a
>> turn, and found it tight. I started the engine, and the entire filter
>> housing was almost immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap off,
>> hoping that it wasn't cracked.
>
> That sucks.
>
>
>>
>> I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the past few
>> days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on the driveway,
>> and the way the oil flowed out, it would have made a really big puddle,
>> and ran the oil level down in the car. I suspect that as soon as the oil
>> warms, it quits leaking.
>>
>> I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I can
>> picture how their customer service would react - denial.
>>
>>
>
> Why assume that? While it may indeed be true, you have nothing at all to
> base that assumption on. Why not provide Fram the evidence you are so
> willing to share here, and see exactly *what* they have to say.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net
>
11-10-2007, 07:36 AM
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure!
"Bob" <bobsjunkmail@bellsouth.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:x9aZi.1139$oa.352@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil
> filters for the Sonata.
There is a TSB from Hyundai that talks about this issue, recommending to use
ONLY original oil filters for Sonata 2006 to avoid such a kind of troubles.
--
Zotto Sonica barbonica driver
http://www.flickr.com/photos/zottoida/
11-10-2007, 07:57 AM
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure!
I read the TSB about engine noise (valve lifters) a while back. Is there
another one? I'll have to check.
"Zotto" <zottononmispammare@inwind.it> wrote in message
news:mBhZi.168816$U01.1184978@twister1.libero.it.. .
>
> "Bob" <bobsjunkmail@bellsouth.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:x9aZi.1139$oa.352@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>> Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil
>> filters for the Sonata.
>
> There is a TSB from Hyundai that talks about this issue, recommending to
> use ONLY original oil filters for Sonata 2006 to avoid such a kind of
> troubles.
>
>
>
> --
> Zotto Sonica barbonica driver
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/zottoida/
>
another one? I'll have to check.
"Zotto" <zottononmispammare@inwind.it> wrote in message
news:mBhZi.168816$U01.1184978@twister1.libero.it.. .
>
> "Bob" <bobsjunkmail@bellsouth.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:x9aZi.1139$oa.352@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>> Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil
>> filters for the Sonata.
>
> There is a TSB from Hyundai that talks about this issue, recommending to
> use ONLY original oil filters for Sonata 2006 to avoid such a kind of
> troubles.
>
>
>
> --
> Zotto Sonica barbonica driver
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/zottoida/
>
11-10-2007, 08:33 AM
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure!
Bob wrote:
> Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil filters
> for the Sonata. I had purchased a Fram PH9999. I took several pictures of
> it - the filter, O rings, and took similar pictures of the genuine Hyundai
> filter. Matt Whiting had the following to say: "The pictures are very nice.
> In the pictures, it appears that both the filter media and the inner o-rings
> (I think they are o-rings anyway) are a different color from the Hyundai
> filter. This may be inconsequential or it may mean that these materials are
> materially (pun intended!) different from the Hyundai filter. I'd want to
> know if this was my engine."
>
> Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, I did an oil
> change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All was well until
> I noticed the oil stain on my driveway yesterday. (My wife drives the car).
> This morning, I looked under the hood, and found oil had been leaking from
> between the cap and the filter housing. I tried to give it a turn, and found
> it tight. I started the engine, and the entire filter housing was almost
> immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap off, hoping that it wasn't
> cracked.
>
> It wasn't. The O ring for the cap was flat. It actually had hardened. I've
> changed the oil in the car like 6 times now, and the Hyundai O ring was
> still round and soft (flexible) when replaced. The Fram O ring actually is
> now flat on the outside, and was really hard. I have pictures of the Hyundai
> O ring I replaced it with up against the Fram O ring I removed. My server is
> currently dead, so I anyone's got either a way to host them, or suggestions
> as to how I can link to them, let me know (my email address is valid), and
> I'll either email them to you, or follow whatever instructions so everyone
> can see.
>
> I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the past few
> days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on the driveway, and
> the way the oil flowed out, it would have made a really big puddle, and ran
> the oil level down in the car. I suspect that as soon as the oil warms, it
> quits leaking.
>
> I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I can
> picture how their customer service would react - denial.
It is a good idea to let them know. If they are using cheap materials
knowingly, then they won't care and won't do anything as you say.
However, if they have any integrity, they will check to see if their
supplier sent them substandard materials by mistake or maybe on purpose,
but unbeknown to them. If they don't know of these failures, they have
no opportunity to address them.
I personally no longer hold Fram in high regard, but that is just my
opinion. However, I almost always let a company know when their product
is substandard. I figure I at least owe them that much. If they choose
to ignore it, then that is out of my control.
I know we have had long debates here about various manufacturers of oil,
filters, etc. and many disagree with me, however, I still believe that
there often IS a correlation of quality to price. Cheap parts really
are often inferior in one way or another. Are they inferior enough to
matter? That is the $64K question. Maybe Fram filters are good enough
in most cases. Maybe SuperTech oil is good enough in most cases. For
me, I'll pay the extra for Mobil 1 or Castrol and likewise for Hyundai
or Purolator or similar filters.
I'm glad you found the problem before it caused engine damage.
Matt
> Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil filters
> for the Sonata. I had purchased a Fram PH9999. I took several pictures of
> it - the filter, O rings, and took similar pictures of the genuine Hyundai
> filter. Matt Whiting had the following to say: "The pictures are very nice.
> In the pictures, it appears that both the filter media and the inner o-rings
> (I think they are o-rings anyway) are a different color from the Hyundai
> filter. This may be inconsequential or it may mean that these materials are
> materially (pun intended!) different from the Hyundai filter. I'd want to
> know if this was my engine."
>
> Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, I did an oil
> change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All was well until
> I noticed the oil stain on my driveway yesterday. (My wife drives the car).
> This morning, I looked under the hood, and found oil had been leaking from
> between the cap and the filter housing. I tried to give it a turn, and found
> it tight. I started the engine, and the entire filter housing was almost
> immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap off, hoping that it wasn't
> cracked.
>
> It wasn't. The O ring for the cap was flat. It actually had hardened. I've
> changed the oil in the car like 6 times now, and the Hyundai O ring was
> still round and soft (flexible) when replaced. The Fram O ring actually is
> now flat on the outside, and was really hard. I have pictures of the Hyundai
> O ring I replaced it with up against the Fram O ring I removed. My server is
> currently dead, so I anyone's got either a way to host them, or suggestions
> as to how I can link to them, let me know (my email address is valid), and
> I'll either email them to you, or follow whatever instructions so everyone
> can see.
>
> I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the past few
> days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on the driveway, and
> the way the oil flowed out, it would have made a really big puddle, and ran
> the oil level down in the car. I suspect that as soon as the oil warms, it
> quits leaking.
>
> I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I can
> picture how their customer service would react - denial.
It is a good idea to let them know. If they are using cheap materials
knowingly, then they won't care and won't do anything as you say.
However, if they have any integrity, they will check to see if their
supplier sent them substandard materials by mistake or maybe on purpose,
but unbeknown to them. If they don't know of these failures, they have
no opportunity to address them.
I personally no longer hold Fram in high regard, but that is just my
opinion. However, I almost always let a company know when their product
is substandard. I figure I at least owe them that much. If they choose
to ignore it, then that is out of my control.
I know we have had long debates here about various manufacturers of oil,
filters, etc. and many disagree with me, however, I still believe that
there often IS a correlation of quality to price. Cheap parts really
are often inferior in one way or another. Are they inferior enough to
matter? That is the $64K question. Maybe Fram filters are good enough
in most cases. Maybe SuperTech oil is good enough in most cases. For
me, I'll pay the extra for Mobil 1 or Castrol and likewise for Hyundai
or Purolator or similar filters.
I'm glad you found the problem before it caused engine damage.
Matt
11-10-2007, 08:39 AM
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure!
"Zotto" <zottononmispammare@inwind.it> wrote in message
news:mBhZi.168816$U01.1184978@twister1.libero.it.. .
>
> "Bob" <bobsjunkmail@bellsouth.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:x9aZi.1139$oa.352@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>> Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil
>> filters for the Sonata.
>
> There is a TSB from Hyundai that talks about this issue, recommending to
> use ONLY original oil filters for Sonata 2006 to avoid such a kind of
> troubles.
>
>
The TSB from Hyundai was generic - Issued 2005 for All Vehicles. It talked
about possible engine noise as a side effect of using aftermarket filters.
Others here discussed it further, and said it was maybe due to
anti-drainback valve issues. The filters for the 3.3 are bare cartridge
filters, not the type in a metal can. They contain no valves.
As far as reporting it to Fram, I've made a call, and left info on their
"Product Quality Claims" voice mail. If they call back, great. I'll let
everyone know what transpires. You would think that they would have tested
the filter / O-rings to make sure that they were the proper material for the
application. There was absolutely no deviation from their instructions -
it's in a car with motor oil, and the filter hasn't been in all that long. I
can tell them exactly what oil was used, so maybe they can duplicate the
problem. I'm not really concerned about this having damaged the engine, as
all it did was cause a leak. The oil level didn't have a chance to get low.
The leak was discovered within a day of it starting.
11-10-2007, 09:16 AM
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure!
"Bob" <bobsjunkmail@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:RviZi.1655$A71.1082@bignews9.bellsouth.net...
>
> As far as reporting it to Fram, I've made a call, and left info on their
> "Product Quality Claims" voice mail. If they call back, great. I'll let
> everyone know what transpires. You would think that they would have tested
> the filter / O-rings to make sure that they were the proper material for
> the application. There was absolutely no deviation from their
> instructions - it's in a car with motor oil, and the filter hasn't been in
> all that long. I can tell them exactly what oil was used, so maybe they
> can duplicate the problem. I'm not really concerned about this having
> damaged the engine, as all it did was cause a leak. The oil level didn't
> have a chance to get low. The leak was discovered within a day of it
> starting.
>
A great many of us here will be interested in hearing how this plays out
Bob. I for one, am not in the Fram bashing camp and I'd like to think
they'll step up to the plate on this. We'll see...
--
-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net
11-10-2007, 10:14 AM
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure!
"Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:92d87$4735bd43$6210799e$15566@ALLTEL.NET...
>
> "Bob" <bobsjunkmail@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:RviZi.1655$A71.1082@bignews9.bellsouth.net...
>
>>
>> As far as reporting it to Fram, I've made a call, and left info on their
>> "Product Quality Claims" voice mail. If they call back, great. I'll let
>> everyone know what transpires. You would think that they would have
>> tested the filter / O-rings to make sure that they were the proper
>> material for the application. There was absolutely no deviation from
>> their instructions - it's in a car with motor oil, and the filter hasn't
>> been in all that long. I can tell them exactly what oil was used, so
>> maybe they can duplicate the problem. I'm not really concerned about
>> this having damaged the engine, as all it did was cause a leak. The oil
>> level didn't have a chance to get low. The leak was discovered within a
>> day of it starting.
>>
>
> A great many of us here will be interested in hearing how this plays out
> Bob. I for one, am not in the Fram bashing camp and I'd like to think
> they'll step up to the plate on this. We'll see...
>
> --
Fortunately, there's no damage other than the mess which a 2 dollar can of
degreaser took care of. A neighbor came over and reminded me of the $500
fine for washing cars because of the water restrictions.....
They'll either call me back, and be interested, or they won't. Even if they
want the filter, etc. back, I'm sure they'll never 'fess up to there being a
problem. The filter is still in the car, as I'll probably change the oil
sometime this weekend. I just swapped out the O-ring yesterday. I'll do the
rest when I change the oil. I sent the pics to someone on this group that
emailed for them. If anyone's got a solution for posting them, I'll do that.
11-11-2007, 12:40 PM
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure!
Well just to add my 2 cents for what its worth I have a 2005 XG350L and
every oil change has been done at 3000 miles ( Please dont bash me for the
3000 mile change, I live in the desert ( Las Vegas ) and it gets kinda warm
here and we have sand storms quite often ) But every oil change has been
with Mobil1 and a FRAM oil filter as of now I have yet to have a drop of oil
come from the filter or not 1 engine noise, the car car runs and sounds like
new. I guess heres where I get bashed !!!!!! I have had every oil change
done at the local Walmart !!!! and have never had a problem with them,
besides they wash my windsheild with every oil change
']['unez
" When your up to your *** in alligators, its hard to remember, your main
objective was to drain the swamp ! "
"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
news:MqiZi.685$2n4.24028@news1.epix.net...
> Bob wrote:
>> Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil
>> filters for the Sonata. I had purchased a Fram PH9999. I took several
>> pictures of it - the filter, O rings, and took similar pictures of the
>> genuine Hyundai filter. Matt Whiting had the following to say: "The
>> pictures are very nice. In the pictures, it appears that both the filter
>> media and the inner o-rings (I think they are o-rings anyway) are a
>> different color from the Hyundai filter. This may be inconsequential or
>> it may mean that these materials are materially (pun intended!) different
>> from the Hyundai filter. I'd want to know if this was my engine."
>>
>> Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, I did an
>> oil change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All was well
>> until I noticed the oil stain on my driveway yesterday. (My wife drives
>> the car). This morning, I looked under the hood, and found oil had been
>> leaking from between the cap and the filter housing. I tried to give it a
>> turn, and found it tight. I started the engine, and the entire filter
>> housing was almost immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap off,
>> hoping that it wasn't cracked.
>>
>> It wasn't. The O ring for the cap was flat. It actually had hardened.
>> I've changed the oil in the car like 6 times now, and the Hyundai O ring
>> was still round and soft (flexible) when replaced. The Fram O ring
>> actually is now flat on the outside, and was really hard. I have pictures
>> of the Hyundai O ring I replaced it with up against the Fram O ring I
>> removed. My server is currently dead, so I anyone's got either a way to
>> host them, or suggestions as to how I can link to them, let me know (my
>> email address is valid), and I'll either email them to you, or follow
>> whatever instructions so everyone can see.
>>
>> I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the past few
>> days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on the driveway,
>> and the way the oil flowed out, it would have made a really big puddle,
>> and ran the oil level down in the car. I suspect that as soon as the oil
>> warms, it quits leaking.
>>
>> I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I can
>> picture how their customer service would react - denial.
>
> It is a good idea to let them know. If they are using cheap materials
> knowingly, then they won't care and won't do anything as you say. However,
> if they have any integrity, they will check to see if their supplier sent
> them substandard materials by mistake or maybe on purpose, but unbeknown
> to them. If they don't know of these failures, they have no opportunity
> to address them.
>
> I personally no longer hold Fram in high regard, but that is just my
> opinion. However, I almost always let a company know when their product
> is substandard. I figure I at least owe them that much. If they choose
> to ignore it, then that is out of my control.
>
> I know we have had long debates here about various manufacturers of oil,
> filters, etc. and many disagree with me, however, I still believe that
> there often IS a correlation of quality to price. Cheap parts really are
> often inferior in one way or another. Are they inferior enough to matter?
> That is the $64K question. Maybe Fram filters are good enough in most
> cases. Maybe SuperTech oil is good enough in most cases. For me, I'll
> pay the extra for Mobil 1 or Castrol and likewise for Hyundai or Purolator
> or similar filters.
>
> I'm glad you found the problem before it caused engine damage.
>
>
> Matt
every oil change has been done at 3000 miles ( Please dont bash me for the
3000 mile change, I live in the desert ( Las Vegas ) and it gets kinda warm
here and we have sand storms quite often ) But every oil change has been
with Mobil1 and a FRAM oil filter as of now I have yet to have a drop of oil
come from the filter or not 1 engine noise, the car car runs and sounds like
new. I guess heres where I get bashed !!!!!! I have had every oil change
done at the local Walmart !!!! and have never had a problem with them,
besides they wash my windsheild with every oil change
']['unez
" When your up to your *** in alligators, its hard to remember, your main
objective was to drain the swamp ! "
"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
news:MqiZi.685$2n4.24028@news1.epix.net...
> Bob wrote:
>> Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil
>> filters for the Sonata. I had purchased a Fram PH9999. I took several
>> pictures of it - the filter, O rings, and took similar pictures of the
>> genuine Hyundai filter. Matt Whiting had the following to say: "The
>> pictures are very nice. In the pictures, it appears that both the filter
>> media and the inner o-rings (I think they are o-rings anyway) are a
>> different color from the Hyundai filter. This may be inconsequential or
>> it may mean that these materials are materially (pun intended!) different
>> from the Hyundai filter. I'd want to know if this was my engine."
>>
>> Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, I did an
>> oil change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All was well
>> until I noticed the oil stain on my driveway yesterday. (My wife drives
>> the car). This morning, I looked under the hood, and found oil had been
>> leaking from between the cap and the filter housing. I tried to give it a
>> turn, and found it tight. I started the engine, and the entire filter
>> housing was almost immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap off,
>> hoping that it wasn't cracked.
>>
>> It wasn't. The O ring for the cap was flat. It actually had hardened.
>> I've changed the oil in the car like 6 times now, and the Hyundai O ring
>> was still round and soft (flexible) when replaced. The Fram O ring
>> actually is now flat on the outside, and was really hard. I have pictures
>> of the Hyundai O ring I replaced it with up against the Fram O ring I
>> removed. My server is currently dead, so I anyone's got either a way to
>> host them, or suggestions as to how I can link to them, let me know (my
>> email address is valid), and I'll either email them to you, or follow
>> whatever instructions so everyone can see.
>>
>> I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the past few
>> days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on the driveway,
>> and the way the oil flowed out, it would have made a really big puddle,
>> and ran the oil level down in the car. I suspect that as soon as the oil
>> warms, it quits leaking.
>>
>> I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I can
>> picture how their customer service would react - denial.
>
> It is a good idea to let them know. If they are using cheap materials
> knowingly, then they won't care and won't do anything as you say. However,
> if they have any integrity, they will check to see if their supplier sent
> them substandard materials by mistake or maybe on purpose, but unbeknown
> to them. If they don't know of these failures, they have no opportunity
> to address them.
>
> I personally no longer hold Fram in high regard, but that is just my
> opinion. However, I almost always let a company know when their product
> is substandard. I figure I at least owe them that much. If they choose
> to ignore it, then that is out of my control.
>
> I know we have had long debates here about various manufacturers of oil,
> filters, etc. and many disagree with me, however, I still believe that
> there often IS a correlation of quality to price. Cheap parts really are
> often inferior in one way or another. Are they inferior enough to matter?
> That is the $64K question. Maybe Fram filters are good enough in most
> cases. Maybe SuperTech oil is good enough in most cases. For me, I'll
> pay the extra for Mobil 1 or Castrol and likewise for Hyundai or Purolator
> or similar filters.
>
> I'm glad you found the problem before it caused engine damage.
>
>
> Matt
11-11-2007, 02:02 PM
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure!
I've used Fram from day one and never had a problem with them. I only use
fram on my 01 Sonota because no one else carries filters for Hyundai
Sonatas other than wall mart. Canadian tire used to have them, but do not
carry them any more. I am not going to pay an inflated price for a filter
from the dealership.
"']['unez" <tunez1@***.net> wrote in message
news:S8HZi.3149$L15.2956@newsfe08.phx...
> Well just to add my 2 cents for what its worth I have a 2005 XG350L and
> every oil change has been done at 3000 miles ( Please dont bash me for the
> 3000 mile change, I live in the desert ( Las Vegas ) and it gets kinda
warm
> here and we have sand storms quite often ) But every oil change has been
> with Mobil1 and a FRAM oil filter as of now I have yet to have a drop of
oil
> come from the filter or not 1 engine noise, the car car runs and sounds
like
> new. I guess heres where I get bashed !!!!!! I have had every oil change
> done at the local Walmart !!!! and have never had a problem with them,
> besides they wash my windsheild with every oil change
>
> ']['unez
>
> " When your up to your *** in alligators, its hard to remember, your main
> objective was to drain the swamp ! "
>
>
> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
> news:MqiZi.685$2n4.24028@news1.epix.net...
> > Bob wrote:
> >> Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil
> >> filters for the Sonata. I had purchased a Fram PH9999. I took several
> >> pictures of it - the filter, O rings, and took similar pictures of the
> >> genuine Hyundai filter. Matt Whiting had the following to say: "The
> >> pictures are very nice. In the pictures, it appears that both the
filter
> >> media and the inner o-rings (I think they are o-rings anyway) are a
> >> different color from the Hyundai filter. This may be inconsequential
or
> >> it may mean that these materials are materially (pun intended!)
different
> >> from the Hyundai filter. I'd want to know if this was my engine."
> >>
> >> Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, I did an
> >> oil change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All was
well
> >> until I noticed the oil stain on my driveway yesterday. (My wife drives
> >> the car). This morning, I looked under the hood, and found oil had been
> >> leaking from between the cap and the filter housing. I tried to give it
a
> >> turn, and found it tight. I started the engine, and the entire filter
> >> housing was almost immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap
off,
> >> hoping that it wasn't cracked.
> >>
> >> It wasn't. The O ring for the cap was flat. It actually had hardened.
> >> I've changed the oil in the car like 6 times now, and the Hyundai O
ring
> >> was still round and soft (flexible) when replaced. The Fram O ring
> >> actually is now flat on the outside, and was really hard. I have
pictures
> >> of the Hyundai O ring I replaced it with up against the Fram O ring I
> >> removed. My server is currently dead, so I anyone's got either a way to
> >> host them, or suggestions as to how I can link to them, let me know (my
> >> email address is valid), and I'll either email them to you, or follow
> >> whatever instructions so everyone can see.
> >>
> >> I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the past few
> >> days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on the
driveway,
> >> and the way the oil flowed out, it would have made a really big puddle,
> >> and ran the oil level down in the car. I suspect that as soon as the
oil
> >> warms, it quits leaking.
> >>
> >> I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I can
> >> picture how their customer service would react - denial.
> >
> > It is a good idea to let them know. If they are using cheap materials
> > knowingly, then they won't care and won't do anything as you say.
However,
> > if they have any integrity, they will check to see if their supplier
sent
> > them substandard materials by mistake or maybe on purpose, but unbeknown
> > to them. If they don't know of these failures, they have no opportunity
> > to address them.
> >
> > I personally no longer hold Fram in high regard, but that is just my
> > opinion. However, I almost always let a company know when their product
> > is substandard. I figure I at least owe them that much. If they choose
> > to ignore it, then that is out of my control.
> >
> > I know we have had long debates here about various manufacturers of oil,
> > filters, etc. and many disagree with me, however, I still believe that
> > there often IS a correlation of quality to price. Cheap parts really
are
> > often inferior in one way or another. Are they inferior enough to
matter?
> > That is the $64K question. Maybe Fram filters are good enough in most
> > cases. Maybe SuperTech oil is good enough in most cases. For me, I'll
> > pay the extra for Mobil 1 or Castrol and likewise for Hyundai or
Purolator
> > or similar filters.
> >
> > I'm glad you found the problem before it caused engine damage.
> >
> >
> > Matt
>
fram on my 01 Sonota because no one else carries filters for Hyundai
Sonatas other than wall mart. Canadian tire used to have them, but do not
carry them any more. I am not going to pay an inflated price for a filter
from the dealership.
"']['unez" <tunez1@***.net> wrote in message
news:S8HZi.3149$L15.2956@newsfe08.phx...
> Well just to add my 2 cents for what its worth I have a 2005 XG350L and
> every oil change has been done at 3000 miles ( Please dont bash me for the
> 3000 mile change, I live in the desert ( Las Vegas ) and it gets kinda
warm
> here and we have sand storms quite often ) But every oil change has been
> with Mobil1 and a FRAM oil filter as of now I have yet to have a drop of
oil
> come from the filter or not 1 engine noise, the car car runs and sounds
like
> new. I guess heres where I get bashed !!!!!! I have had every oil change
> done at the local Walmart !!!! and have never had a problem with them,
> besides they wash my windsheild with every oil change
>
> ']['unez
>
> " When your up to your *** in alligators, its hard to remember, your main
> objective was to drain the swamp ! "
>
>
> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
> news:MqiZi.685$2n4.24028@news1.epix.net...
> > Bob wrote:
> >> Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil
> >> filters for the Sonata. I had purchased a Fram PH9999. I took several
> >> pictures of it - the filter, O rings, and took similar pictures of the
> >> genuine Hyundai filter. Matt Whiting had the following to say: "The
> >> pictures are very nice. In the pictures, it appears that both the
filter
> >> media and the inner o-rings (I think they are o-rings anyway) are a
> >> different color from the Hyundai filter. This may be inconsequential
or
> >> it may mean that these materials are materially (pun intended!)
different
> >> from the Hyundai filter. I'd want to know if this was my engine."
> >>
> >> Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, I did an
> >> oil change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All was
well
> >> until I noticed the oil stain on my driveway yesterday. (My wife drives
> >> the car). This morning, I looked under the hood, and found oil had been
> >> leaking from between the cap and the filter housing. I tried to give it
a
> >> turn, and found it tight. I started the engine, and the entire filter
> >> housing was almost immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap
off,
> >> hoping that it wasn't cracked.
> >>
> >> It wasn't. The O ring for the cap was flat. It actually had hardened.
> >> I've changed the oil in the car like 6 times now, and the Hyundai O
ring
> >> was still round and soft (flexible) when replaced. The Fram O ring
> >> actually is now flat on the outside, and was really hard. I have
pictures
> >> of the Hyundai O ring I replaced it with up against the Fram O ring I
> >> removed. My server is currently dead, so I anyone's got either a way to
> >> host them, or suggestions as to how I can link to them, let me know (my
> >> email address is valid), and I'll either email them to you, or follow
> >> whatever instructions so everyone can see.
> >>
> >> I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the past few
> >> days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on the
driveway,
> >> and the way the oil flowed out, it would have made a really big puddle,
> >> and ran the oil level down in the car. I suspect that as soon as the
oil
> >> warms, it quits leaking.
> >>
> >> I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I can
> >> picture how their customer service would react - denial.
> >
> > It is a good idea to let them know. If they are using cheap materials
> > knowingly, then they won't care and won't do anything as you say.
However,
> > if they have any integrity, they will check to see if their supplier
sent
> > them substandard materials by mistake or maybe on purpose, but unbeknown
> > to them. If they don't know of these failures, they have no opportunity
> > to address them.
> >
> > I personally no longer hold Fram in high regard, but that is just my
> > opinion. However, I almost always let a company know when their product
> > is substandard. I figure I at least owe them that much. If they choose
> > to ignore it, then that is out of my control.
> >
> > I know we have had long debates here about various manufacturers of oil,
> > filters, etc. and many disagree with me, however, I still believe that
> > there often IS a correlation of quality to price. Cheap parts really
are
> > often inferior in one way or another. Are they inferior enough to
matter?
> > That is the $64K question. Maybe Fram filters are good enough in most
> > cases. Maybe SuperTech oil is good enough in most cases. For me, I'll
> > pay the extra for Mobil 1 or Castrol and likewise for Hyundai or
Purolator
> > or similar filters.
> >
> > I'm glad you found the problem before it caused engine damage.
> >
> >
> > Matt
>
11-12-2007, 10:02 AM
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure!
Well Brian, If this response was aimed at me ( actually it doesnt matter who
it was aimed at ) that is your opinion and you know what they say about
opinions !!!!! I have been using Fram Oil Filters in my Vehicles and sold
them in all 4 of my service stations for 40 YEARS with not one complaint or
not one problem in 40 years and just so you have another of your opinions
aired I also used Penzoil Oil all those years untill Mobil 1 came out and I
switched.... As you know or should know EVERYBODY has parts fail, it doesnt
matter if its Fram, Autolite, WHOMEVER it does happen Just because you may
have had a bad experiance with a fram filter or read it someplace that
doesnt mean you need to condem them for every body else .
OH BTW I probably follow this forum more in two days than you do in two
weeks, I just read alot and dont post much.
']['unez
" When your up to your *** in alligators, it's hard to remember your main
objective was to drain the swamp ! "
"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:uGXZi.1062$OJ.863@trndny06...
> If you'd been paying attention to this or any other forum, you'd know that
> Fram filters are absolute crap and potentially damaging to your engine.
> Now you know.
it was aimed at ) that is your opinion and you know what they say about
opinions !!!!! I have been using Fram Oil Filters in my Vehicles and sold
them in all 4 of my service stations for 40 YEARS with not one complaint or
not one problem in 40 years and just so you have another of your opinions
aired I also used Penzoil Oil all those years untill Mobil 1 came out and I
switched.... As you know or should know EVERYBODY has parts fail, it doesnt
matter if its Fram, Autolite, WHOMEVER it does happen Just because you may
have had a bad experiance with a fram filter or read it someplace that
doesnt mean you need to condem them for every body else .
OH BTW I probably follow this forum more in two days than you do in two
weeks, I just read alot and dont post much.
']['unez
" When your up to your *** in alligators, it's hard to remember your main
objective was to drain the swamp ! "
"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:uGXZi.1062$OJ.863@trndny06...
> If you'd been paying attention to this or any other forum, you'd know that
> Fram filters are absolute crap and potentially damaging to your engine.
> Now you know.
11-12-2007, 02:21 PM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure!
']['unez wrote:
> Well Brian, If this response was aimed at me ( actually it doesnt matter
> who it was aimed at ) that is your opinion and you know what they say
> about opinions !!!!! I have been using Fram Oil Filters in my Vehicles
> and sold them in all 4 of my service stations for 40 YEARS with not one
> complaint or not one problem in 40 years and just so you have another of
> your opinions aired I also used Penzoil Oil all those years untill Mobil
> 1 came out and I switched.... As you know or should know EVERYBODY has
> parts fail, it doesnt matter if its Fram, Autolite, WHOMEVER it does
> happen Just because you may have had a bad experiance with a fram filter
> or read it someplace that doesnt mean you need to condem them for every
> body else .
Fram filters changed a lot over that time period. I used them in the
early days as well and they were very good then. When Fram was acquired
by a different company (forget the details now as it has been many years
ago), the filters were redesigned to cut cost. They went from being a
premium brand to being a bottom-tier brand almost overnight.
Use what you will, but the standard Fram filters today just aren't high
quality as several tear-downs have shown.
Matt
> Well Brian, If this response was aimed at me ( actually it doesnt matter
> who it was aimed at ) that is your opinion and you know what they say
> about opinions !!!!! I have been using Fram Oil Filters in my Vehicles
> and sold them in all 4 of my service stations for 40 YEARS with not one
> complaint or not one problem in 40 years and just so you have another of
> your opinions aired I also used Penzoil Oil all those years untill Mobil
> 1 came out and I switched.... As you know or should know EVERYBODY has
> parts fail, it doesnt matter if its Fram, Autolite, WHOMEVER it does
> happen Just because you may have had a bad experiance with a fram filter
> or read it someplace that doesnt mean you need to condem them for every
> body else .
Fram filters changed a lot over that time period. I used them in the
early days as well and they were very good then. When Fram was acquired
by a different company (forget the details now as it has been many years
ago), the filters were redesigned to cut cost. They went from being a
premium brand to being a bottom-tier brand almost overnight.
Use what you will, but the standard Fram filters today just aren't high
quality as several tear-downs have shown.
Matt
11-12-2007, 08:12 PM
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure!
"']['unez" <tunez1@***.net> wrote in message
news:1XZZi.5607$4k.1664@newsfe11.phx...
> Well Brian, If this response was aimed at me ( actually it doesnt matter
> who it was aimed at ) .....
Actually, it was likely aimed at me. We've all heard the urban legends about
the Fram filters that have caused all kinds of problems from sludge to
thrown rods. Most of us have seen the teardowns that are BASED ON VISUAL
INSPECTION. This filter is not in a can, and looked pretty good. That's why
I tried it. The problem here wasn't the filter. The filter still looks fine.
It was the O-ring gasket included with the filter. It would appear that
whatever they made it out of, it didn't do well - heat, oil, cold?
Actually, the small O-ring that's on the end of the bypass valve assembly is
pretty hard also. The two on the filter itself seem OK.
Anyway, I got a call back from Fram today, and they are sending me out some
kind of packaging to send the filter and O-rings back. They claim that they
will report back. It didn't damage my engine. All it did was make a mess.
