southluke

> GUEST wrote:
> Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil
filters
> for the Sonata. I had purchased a Fram PH9999. I took several
pictures of
> it - the filter, O rings, and took similar pictures of the genuine
Hyundai
> filter. Matt Whiting had the following to say: "The pictures
are very nice.
> In the pictures, it appears that both the filter media and the
inner o-rings
> (I think they are o-rings anyway) are a different color from the
Hyundai
> filter. This may be inconsequential or it may mean that these
materials are
> materially (pun intended!) different from the Hyundai filter. I'd
want to
> know if this was my engine."
>
> Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, I
did an oil
> change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All was
well until
> I noticed the oil stain on my driveway yesterday. (My wife drives
the car).
> This morning, I looked under the hood, and found oil had been
leaking from
> between the cap and the filter housing. I tried to give it a turn,
and found
> it tight. I started the engine, and the entire filter housing was
almost
> immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap off, hoping that
it wasn't
> cracked.
>
> It wasn't. The O ring for the cap was flat. It actually had
hardened. I've
> changed the oil in the car like 6 times now, and the Hyundai O ring
was
> still round and soft (flexible) when replaced. The Fram O ring
actually is
> now flat on the outside, and was really hard. I have pictures of
the Hyundai
> O ring I replaced it with up against the Fram O ring I removed. My
server is
> currently dead, so I anyone's got either a way to host them, or
suggestions
> as to how I can link to them, let me know (my email address is
valid), and
> I'll either email them to you, or follow whatever instructions so
everyone
> can see.
>
> I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the past
few
> days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on the
driveway, and
> the way the oil flowed out, it would have made a really big puddle,
and ran
> the oil level down in the car. I suspect that as soon as the oil
warms, it
> quits leaking.
>
> I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I
can
> picture how their customer service would react - denial.

The
best oil filter is the one on sale. I think I have used about every
brand made over the years and never had engine problems. The Walmart
brand seems to work fine.

However, I have noticed over the years that every now and then one
will leak a little. Not sure why but it does not seem to be any
particular brand.

Just change the oil and filter regularly and keep an eye on the oil
level and you will be OK.

Luke

Deck

I have always used the Hyundaifilter, but I do have a Fram that looks just
like it! What I have been reading it was the O ring that failed, not the
filter!! I have changed my oil every 5000 miles using the Hyundai filter,
but taking off the O rings is a pain, so I have only done that once.
otherwise I just use the old Orings. Have a bunch left over if you need
one!!!

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Tom

Well, that in itself says one helluva lot about Fram!!! If they take the
time and effort to send you a special box to return the failed filter in
then they DO care about their products. That's a lot more than I can say
about many other manufacturers that I have dealt with over the years.

"Bob" <bobsjunkmail@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:1S6_i.2810$2n.842@bignews8.bellsouth.net...
>
> "']['unez" <tunez1@***.net> wrote in message
> news:1XZZi.5607$4k.1664@newsfe11.phx...
>> Well Brian, If this response was aimed at me ( actually it doesnt matter
>> who it was aimed at ) .....
>
> Actually, it was likely aimed at me. We've all heard the urban legends
> about the Fram filters that have caused all kinds of problems from sludge
> to thrown rods. Most of us have seen the teardowns that are BASED ON
> VISUAL INSPECTION. This filter is not in a can, and looked pretty good.
> That's why I tried it. The problem here wasn't the filter. The filter
> still looks fine. It was the O-ring gasket included with the filter. It
> would appear that whatever they made it out of, it didn't do well - heat,
> oil, cold? Actually, the small O-ring that's on the end of the bypass
> valve assembly is pretty hard also. The two on the filter itself seem OK.
>
> Anyway, I got a call back from Fram today, and they are sending me out
> some kind of packaging to send the filter and O-rings back. They claim
> that they will report back. It didn't damage my engine. All it did was
> make a mess.
>
>
>

Matt Whiting

Deck wrote:
> I have always used the Hyundaifilter, but I do have a Fram that looks just
> like it! What I have been reading it was the O ring that failed, not the
> filter!! I have changed my oil every 5000 miles using the Hyundai filter,
> but taking off the O rings is a pain, so I have only done that once.
> otherwise I just use the old Orings. Have a bunch left over if you need
> one!!!

Yes, but if the Fram o-ring is really inferior why do you suspect any
different about the filter itself?

Matt

Matt Whiting

Bob wrote:
> "']['unez" <tunez1@***.net> wrote in message
> news:1XZZi.5607$4k.1664@newsfe11.phx...
>> Well Brian, If this response was aimed at me ( actually it doesnt matter
>> who it was aimed at ) .....
>
> Actually, it was likely aimed at me. We've all heard the urban legends about
> the Fram filters that have caused all kinds of problems from sludge to
> thrown rods. Most of us have seen the teardowns that are BASED ON VISUAL
> INSPECTION. This filter is not in a can, and looked pretty good. That's why
> I tried it. The problem here wasn't the filter. The filter still looks fine.
> It was the O-ring gasket included with the filter. It would appear that
> whatever they made it out of, it didn't do well - heat, oil, cold?
> Actually, the small O-ring that's on the end of the bypass valve assembly is
> pretty hard also. The two on the filter itself seem OK.
>
> Anyway, I got a call back from Fram today, and they are sending me out some
> kind of packaging to send the filter and O-rings back. They claim that they
> will report back. It didn't damage my engine. All it did was make a mess.

That is a great response from Fram. Let us know what you hear back once
they get your returned parts.

Matt

Matt Whiting

southluke wrote:

> The
> best oil filter is the one on sale. I think I have used about every
> brand made over the years and never had engine problems. The Walmart
> brand seems to work fine.
>
> However, I have noticed over the years that every now and then one
> will leak a little. Not sure why but it does not seem to be any
> particular brand.
>
> Just change the oil and filter regularly and keep an eye on the oil
> level and you will be OK.

Do you go to the cheapest hospital and doctor when you are sick?

Matt

Tom

Wait til you get on Medicare and HAVE to go to the cheapest and least
experienced hospital/doctor because the good ones are no longer accepting
Medicare patients since our government is cutting the doctors' allowed
charges. Sad but true.

"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
news:xZo_i.780$2n4.24032@news1.epix.net...
> southluke wrote:
>
>> The
>> best oil filter is the one on sale. I think I have used about every
>> brand made over the years and never had engine problems. The Walmart
>> brand seems to work fine.
>>
>> However, I have noticed over the years that every now and then one
>> will leak a little. Not sure why but it does not seem to be any
>> particular brand.
>>
>> Just change the oil and filter regularly and keep an eye on the oil
>> level and you will be OK.
>
> Do you go to the cheapest hospital and doctor when you are sick?
>
> Matt

Matt Whiting

Tom wrote:
> Wait til you get on Medicare and HAVE to go to the cheapest and least
> experienced hospital/doctor because the good ones are no longer accepting
> Medicare patients since our government is cutting the doctors' allowed
> charges. Sad but true.

There is a difference between having to go cheap and choosing to go
cheap. The discussion was about choosing cheap and then claiming it
didn't matter.

Matt

Tom

The perception that price = quality is no longer valid,,, unfortunately.
Everywhere you look, you see 'Made in China'. I was at the optometrist
yesterday and looked at $300 frames made in China with designer labels.
$300 would be a year's salary for many over there. Don't equate 'cheap'
cost with cheap quality. It no longer has any bearing.
"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
news:FuB_i.796$2n4.24338@news1.epix.net...
> Tom wrote:
>> Wait til you get on Medicare and HAVE to go to the cheapest and least
>> experienced hospital/doctor because the good ones are no longer accepting
>> Medicare patients since our government is cutting the doctors' allowed
>> charges. Sad but true.
>
> There is a difference between having to go cheap and choosing to go cheap.
> The discussion was about choosing cheap and then claiming it didn't
> matter.
>
> Matt

Tom

I should also say that I have 40 years of engineering and product design
management experience in the packaging industry segment and I was constantly
under severe pressure to 'cheapen' the product to compete with off-shore
products. One one occasion I was told by the CEO of our $2.5 Billion
corporation to 'make the product JUST good enough to pass the tests."
Therefore, seeing 'Made in USA' on a Purolator filter, sadly, does not mean
it is better than one made elsewhere. I say 'sadly' because I hate buying
products made off-shore, but I do it to stretch my dollar. We all do it.


"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
news:FuB_i.796$2n4.24338@news1.epix.net...
> Tom wrote:
>> Wait til you get on Medicare and HAVE to go to the cheapest and least
>> experienced hospital/doctor because the good ones are no longer accepting
>> Medicare patients since our government is cutting the doctors' allowed
>> charges. Sad but true.
>
> There is a difference between having to go cheap and choosing to go cheap.
> The discussion was about choosing cheap and then claiming it didn't
> matter.
>
> Matt

Deck

My fram for 06 sonata says "Made in Korea"

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Matt Whiting

Tom wrote:
> The perception that price = quality is no longer valid,,, unfortunately.
> Everywhere you look, you see 'Made in China'. I was at the optometrist
> yesterday and looked at $300 frames made in China with designer labels.
> $300 would be a year's salary for many over there. Don't equate 'cheap'
> cost with cheap quality. It no longer has any bearing.

It certainly isn't the only metric, but it does hold for many, many
products. Every oil test I've seen shows correlation between quality
and price.

Matt

Matt Whiting

Tom wrote:
> I should also say that I have 40 years of engineering and product design
> management experience in the packaging industry segment and I was constantly
> under severe pressure to 'cheapen' the product to compete with off-shore
> products. One one occasion I was told by the CEO of our $2.5 Billion
> corporation to 'make the product JUST good enough to pass the tests."
> Therefore, seeing 'Made in USA' on a Purolator filter, sadly, does not mean
> it is better than one made elsewhere. I say 'sadly' because I hate buying
> products made off-shore, but I do it to stretch my dollar. We all do it.

I have only 25 years of engineering and engineering management
experience [but in a $6B company - :-)], and I've never had any such
mandate. However, that really is the essence of engineering. The key
is what the specifications are against which the product is being
tested. I designed products and manufacturing equipment, not packaging,
but I can see a distinct difference between packaging and products for
longer-term use. If the packaging is good enough to protect the
contents while it is in transit, that is all that is needed. Making it
two times better adds no value. Products that will see a long service
live under widely varying conditions are a little bit different.

Matt

Edgar MacArthur

I just saw a Purolator filter for the 07 Santa Fe: made in India.

Tom

Our 275 gallon containers routinely last 5 years or more carrying hazardous
chemicals. It is scary when you relate that to what I said. I find it very
strange that you never were under cost constraints. You must have been
making the overpriced machinery that we bought. ) Our company was still
'small' enough to not be insulated from upper management. We routinely
conversed and interacted with them. They actually knew what was going on at
the 'floor' level - a trait missing in too many of our companies being run
by MBA's and accountants.


"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
news:UyK_i.803$2n4.24562@news1.epix.net...
> Tom wrote:
>> I should also say that I have 40 years of engineering and product design
>> management experience in the packaging industry segment and I was
>> constantly under severe pressure to 'cheapen' the product to compete with
>> off-shore products. One one occasion I was told by the CEO of our $2.5
>> Billion corporation to 'make the product JUST good enough to pass the
>> tests." Therefore, seeing 'Made in USA' on a Purolator filter, sadly,
>> does not mean it is better than one made elsewhere. I say 'sadly'
>> because I hate buying products made off-shore, but I do it to stretch my
>> dollar. We all do it.
>
> I have only 25 years of engineering and engineering management experience
> [but in a $6B company - :-)], and I've never had any such mandate.
> However, that really is the essence of engineering. The key is what the
> specifications are against which the product is being tested. I designed
> products and manufacturing equipment, not packaging, but I can see a
> distinct difference between packaging and products for longer-term use.
> If the packaging is good enough to protect the contents while it is in
> transit, that is all that is needed. Making it two times better adds no
> value. Products that will see a long service live under widely varying
> conditions are a little bit different.
>
> Matt