"A.C." <nicejewishboysellscars@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:BOBkg.148531$F_3.62179@newssvr29.news.prodigy .net:

> Eric G. wrote:
>
>> When I got to the dealer, and expressed my interest in an Entourage
>> SE, all of a sudden the 30% off had exclusions, and one of them was
>> the Entourage. Only 10% off, plus the $1500 rebate from Hyundai.
>>
>
> I sell Hyundai in the Sacramento CA area... at a dealer that is honest
> and has integrity (as do I). You were right to hold your ground and
> not let them weasel out of the advertised promo.
>
> In car sales you don't have to be a 'great' salesperson. I'm not
> great. You just have to be honest and treat people fairly and not pull
> stunts like this. All the other dealers and sales guys/gals think that
> this is the only way to sell so the few dealers (of all brands) and
> salespeople who practice honesty and integrity sell lots of cars.
> People WANT to buy... but they HATE to be sold.
>
> Good for you for standing up and getting the deal you came in to get.
> You would not have had to do it with me or at my store, but there are
> a lot of not-so-terrific dealers and salespeople still in the Hyundai
> franchise... but Hyundai to its credit takes the CSI survey seriously
> so make sure you fill it in and make the complaint. Hyundai pays a
> bonus to sales people who have excellent CSI scores and you can bet
> they will take action on your issue if you spell it out.
>
> AC
> "A nice Jewish boy... selling cars... with honesty and integrity"

Thanks for your reply. This is the sixth car I personally have
purchased from this dealer since 1997 and the 11th I have been
responsible for. Up to this point, they have been nothing but honest
and fair with me. I have already emailed the owner, who I have known
from day one, about my experience. And since it is his voice on the
radio commercial, I hold him personally responsible. He did apologize
to me, but I really have a different feeling from him now. Maybe his
"bottom line" has changed and he is resorting to these tricks, but there
is no excuse for that kind of treatment. Especially for a repeat
customer like myself.

In all honesty, I'm not sure I would be treated any better at any other
Hyundai dealer, or any other dealer for that matter.

At the end I had a good laugh with the finance guy. I had been show a
computer screen that showed they sold me the car at $2100 BELOW THEIR
COST several times. When I was signing, I made a joke to the guy who
proceeded to show me the same screen. I told him that if he followed me
home, I could show him a screen that said I paid $10,000 less than they
paid. He looked at me and laughed and said that he was quite sure I
could.

The BIG problem I have with the CSI survey is that in this case my
salesman actually did an excellent job. It was his boss and his bosses
boss that were the problem here. I think a bad survey will only hurt
the salesman, or hurt him the most. But I do think that they listen to
the surveys and I will fill it out honestly. To hell with the free oil
change :-)

Eric

 

Eric:

I look forward to your future posts on your new Entourage experience.
My wife and I were ready to buy a Honda Odyssey when I read up on the
new Hyundai Entourage. We test drove the Limited and then the SE on
Sunday and just loved it. Financially, we are going to have to wait
until the end of December to purchase one so I am going to spend time
keeping up with this newsgroup to see how new owners of the Entourage
feel about their new minivan. So you are providing a great public
service to those of us who are planning to buy in the near future.
Also, anyone with car buying tips please provide your insights. The
dealer gave me a walk out the door price, tax, tags, title of $28,970.
That includes the 8.5% sales tax here in Jefferson Parish Louisiana.
That was for the SE with Package Option 2, so no DVD Entertainment
system or Infinity Sound System. That price seems to be what they are
asking from my research at the online car websites. Does this jibe
with your experience or is their a way for me to strike a better deal.
We won't have a trade-in and we will pay 10,000 down payment.

Thanks again for the great feedback. I hope your Entourage experience
is a damned good one!

Robert in Metairie, LA


On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:12:59 GMT, "Eric G."
<NgOrSePeAnM99@Zoptonline.Znet> wrote:

>My dealer is having a special this month. They are offering 30% off
>every Hyundai in stock. The 30% is off the dealer markup sticker and
>NOT the Hyundai sticker.
>
>When I got to the dealer, and expressed my interest in an Entourage SE,
>all of a sudden the 30% off had exclusions, and one of them was the
>Entourage. Only 10% off, plus the $1500 rebate from Hyundai.
>
>It took me threatening legal action, since the radio commercial has
>clearly NO exceptions mentioned, but I did get my 30% off.
>
>Anyway, sticker was $29,890. Dealer sticker was $32,885 after $2995 for
>pin striping and door guards (what a joke). Wound up paying just south
>of $21,000. After taxes and tags, trading in our 2002 Elantra, and
>$5,000 down, we financed around $12,000.
>
>We wound up with a blue SE with the ~$3000 DVD/entertainment package.
>Let me say that we were really looking to buy the GLS with the small
>option package (no DVD and a ton of other stuff we didn't need or really
>want), but without even one of them on the lot, they were unwilling to
>negotiate on getting one that way.
>
>I can't really offer too many impressions yet, except to say that it
>really drives like a car. Build quality seems as good as, or slightly
>better, than my 2006 Sonata. Oh, and the cup holders are plentiful and
>well-designed :-)
>
>On the negative side, I now own two vehicles (or make payments on two
>vehicles) that get worse mileage than the two they replaced. Kind of a
>step backwards. But with a somewhat rapidly expanding family, I think
>it was a more energy-efficient choice than buying some other vehicles on
>the market.
>
>Well, more impressions to follow....once we figure out all the damned
>buttons :-)
>
>Eric
>

 

Eric:

I look forward to your future posts on your new Entourage experience.
My wife and I were ready to buy a Honda Odyssey when I read up on the
new Hyundai Entourage. We test drove the Limited and then the SE on
Sunday and just loved it. Financially, we are going to have to wait
until the end of December to purchase one so I am going to spend time
keeping up with this newsgroup to see how new owners of the Entourage
feel about their new minivan. So you are providing a great public
service to those of us who are planning to buy in the near future.
Also, anyone with car buying tips please provide your insights. The
dealer gave me a walk out the door price, tax, tags, title of $28,970.
That includes the 8.5% sales tax here in Jefferson Parish Louisiana.
That was for the SE with Package Option 2, so no DVD Entertainment
system or Infinity Sound System. That price seems to be what they are
asking from my research at the online car websites. Does this jibe
with your experience or is their a way for me to strike a better deal.
We won't have a trade-in and we will pay 10,000 down payment.

Thanks again for the great feedback. I hope your Entourage experience
is a damned good one!

Robert in Metairie, LA


On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:12:59 GMT, "Eric G."
<NgOrSePeAnM99@Zoptonline.Znet> wrote:

>My dealer is having a special this month. They are offering 30% off
>every Hyundai in stock. The 30% is off the dealer markup sticker and
>NOT the Hyundai sticker.
>
>When I got to the dealer, and expressed my interest in an Entourage SE,
>all of a sudden the 30% off had exclusions, and one of them was the
>Entourage. Only 10% off, plus the $1500 rebate from Hyundai.
>
>It took me threatening legal action, since the radio commercial has
>clearly NO exceptions mentioned, but I did get my 30% off.
>
>Anyway, sticker was $29,890. Dealer sticker was $32,885 after $2995 for
>pin striping and door guards (what a joke). Wound up paying just south
>of $21,000. After taxes and tags, trading in our 2002 Elantra, and
>$5,000 down, we financed around $12,000.
>
>We wound up with a blue SE with the ~$3000 DVD/entertainment package.
>Let me say that we were really looking to buy the GLS with the small
>option package (no DVD and a ton of other stuff we didn't need or really
>want), but without even one of them on the lot, they were unwilling to
>negotiate on getting one that way.
>
>I can't really offer too many impressions yet, except to say that it
>really drives like a car. Build quality seems as good as, or slightly
>better, than my 2006 Sonata. Oh, and the cup holders are plentiful and
>well-designed :-)
>
>On the negative side, I now own two vehicles (or make payments on two
>vehicles) that get worse mileage than the two they replaced. Kind of a
>step backwards. But with a somewhat rapidly expanding family, I think
>it was a more energy-efficient choice than buying some other vehicles on
>the market.
>
>Well, more impressions to follow....once we figure out all the damned
>buttons :-)
>
>Eric
>

 

Eric:

I look forward to your future posts on your new Entourage experience.
My wife and I were ready to buy a Honda Odyssey when I read up on the
new Hyundai Entourage. We test drove the Limited and then the SE on
Sunday and just loved it. Financially, we are going to have to wait
until the end of December to purchase one so I am going to spend time
keeping up with this newsgroup to see how new owners of the Entourage
feel about their new minivan. So you are providing a great public
service to those of us who are planning to buy in the near future.
Also, anyone with car buying tips please provide your insights. The
dealer gave me a walk out the door price, tax, tags, title of $28,970.
That includes the 8.5% sales tax here in Jefferson Parish Louisiana.
That was for the SE with Package Option 2, so no DVD Entertainment
system or Infinity Sound System. That price seems to be what they are
asking from my research at the online car websites. Does this jibe
with your experience or is their a way for me to strike a better deal.
We won't have a trade-in and we will pay 10,000 down payment.

Thanks again for the great feedback. I hope your Entourage experience
is a damned good one!

Robert in Metairie, LA


On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:12:59 GMT, "Eric G."
<NgOrSePeAnM99@Zoptonline.Znet> wrote:

>My dealer is having a special this month. They are offering 30% off
>every Hyundai in stock. The 30% is off the dealer markup sticker and
>NOT the Hyundai sticker.
>
>When I got to the dealer, and expressed my interest in an Entourage SE,
>all of a sudden the 30% off had exclusions, and one of them was the
>Entourage. Only 10% off, plus the $1500 rebate from Hyundai.
>
>It took me threatening legal action, since the radio commercial has
>clearly NO exceptions mentioned, but I did get my 30% off.
>
>Anyway, sticker was $29,890. Dealer sticker was $32,885 after $2995 for
>pin striping and door guards (what a joke). Wound up paying just south
>of $21,000. After taxes and tags, trading in our 2002 Elantra, and
>$5,000 down, we financed around $12,000.
>
>We wound up with a blue SE with the ~$3000 DVD/entertainment package.
>Let me say that we were really looking to buy the GLS with the small
>option package (no DVD and a ton of other stuff we didn't need or really
>want), but without even one of them on the lot, they were unwilling to
>negotiate on getting one that way.
>
>I can't really offer too many impressions yet, except to say that it
>really drives like a car. Build quality seems as good as, or slightly
>better, than my 2006 Sonata. Oh, and the cup holders are plentiful and
>well-designed :-)
>
>On the negative side, I now own two vehicles (or make payments on two
>vehicles) that get worse mileage than the two they replaced. Kind of a
>step backwards. But with a somewhat rapidly expanding family, I think
>it was a more energy-efficient choice than buying some other vehicles on
>the market.
>
>Well, more impressions to follow....once we figure out all the damned
>buttons :-)
>
>Eric
>

 

On 2006-07-24 04:36:46 -0400, NOLA Robert <nolarobert@yahoo.com> said:

> Eric:
>
> I look forward to your future posts on your new Entourage experience.
> My wife and I were ready to buy a Honda Odyssey when I read up on the
> new Hyundai Entourage. We test drove the Limited and then the SE on
> Sunday and just loved it. Financially, we are going to have to wait
> until the end of December to purchase one so I am going to spend time
> keeping up with this newsgroup to see how new owners of the Entourage
> feel about their new minivan. So you are providing a great public
> service to those of us who are planning to buy in the near future.
> Also, anyone with car buying tips please provide your insights. The
> dealer gave me a walk out the door price, tax, tags, title of $28,970.
> That includes the 8.5% sales tax here in Jefferson Parish Louisiana.
> That was for the SE with Package Option 2, so no DVD Entertainment
> system or Infinity Sound System. That price seems to be what they are
> asking from my research at the online car websites. Does this jibe
> with your experience or is their a way for me to strike a better deal.
> We won't have a trade-in and we will pay 10,000 down payment.
>
> Thanks again for the great feedback. I hope your Entourage experience
> is a damned good one!
>
> Robert in Metairie, LA
>
>
> On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:12:59 GMT, "Eric G."
> <NgOrSePeAnM99@Zoptonline.Znet> wrote:
>
>> My dealer is having a special this month. They are offering 30% off
>> every Hyundai in stock. The 30% is off the dealer markup sticker and
>> NOT the Hyundai sticker.
>>
>> When I got to the dealer, and expressed my interest in an Entourage SE,
>> all of a sudden the 30% off had exclusions, and one of them was the
>> Entourage. Only 10% off, plus the $1500 rebate from Hyundai.
>>
>> It took me threatening legal action, since the radio commercial has
>> clearly NO exceptions mentioned, but I did get my 30% off.
>>
>> Anyway, sticker was $29,890. Dealer sticker was $32,885 after $2995
>> for pin striping and door guards (what a joke). Wound up paying just
>> south of $21,000. After taxes and tags, trading in our 2002 Elantra,
>> and $5,000 down, we financed around $12,000.
>>
>> We wound up with a blue SE with the ~$3000 DVD/entertainment package.
>> Let me say that we were really looking to buy the GLS with the small
>> option package (no DVD and a ton of other stuff we didn't need or
>> really want), but without even one of them on the lot, they were
>> unwilling to negotiate on getting one that way.
>>
>> I can't really offer too many impressions yet, except to say that it
>> really drives like a car. Build quality seems as good as, or slightly
>> better, than my 2006 Sonata. Oh, and the cup holders are plentiful and
>> well-designed :-)
>>
>> On the negative side, I now own two vehicles (or make payments on two
>> vehicles) that get worse mileage than the two they replaced. Kind of a
>> step backwards. But with a somewhat rapidly expanding family, I think
>> it was a more energy-efficient choice than buying some other vehicles
>> on the market.
>>
>> Well, more impressions to follow....once we figure out all the damned
>> buttons :-)
>>
>> Eric

Just checked www.CarsDirect.com and the price for my area in NY is
$25,635 plus tax and such, so the price you were quoted is in the
ballpark.

 

On 2006-07-24 04:36:46 -0400, NOLA Robert <nolarobert@yahoo.com> said:

> Eric:
>
> I look forward to your future posts on your new Entourage experience.
> My wife and I were ready to buy a Honda Odyssey when I read up on the
> new Hyundai Entourage. We test drove the Limited and then the SE on
> Sunday and just loved it. Financially, we are going to have to wait
> until the end of December to purchase one so I am going to spend time
> keeping up with this newsgroup to see how new owners of the Entourage
> feel about their new minivan. So you are providing a great public
> service to those of us who are planning to buy in the near future.
> Also, anyone with car buying tips please provide your insights. The
> dealer gave me a walk out the door price, tax, tags, title of $28,970.
> That includes the 8.5% sales tax here in Jefferson Parish Louisiana.
> That was for the SE with Package Option 2, so no DVD Entertainment
> system or Infinity Sound System. That price seems to be what they are
> asking from my research at the online car websites. Does this jibe
> with your experience or is their a way for me to strike a better deal.
> We won't have a trade-in and we will pay 10,000 down payment.
>
> Thanks again for the great feedback. I hope your Entourage experience
> is a damned good one!
>
> Robert in Metairie, LA
>
>
> On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:12:59 GMT, "Eric G."
> <NgOrSePeAnM99@Zoptonline.Znet> wrote:
>
>> My dealer is having a special this month. They are offering 30% off
>> every Hyundai in stock. The 30% is off the dealer markup sticker and
>> NOT the Hyundai sticker.
>>
>> When I got to the dealer, and expressed my interest in an Entourage SE,
>> all of a sudden the 30% off had exclusions, and one of them was the
>> Entourage. Only 10% off, plus the $1500 rebate from Hyundai.
>>
>> It took me threatening legal action, since the radio commercial has
>> clearly NO exceptions mentioned, but I did get my 30% off.
>>
>> Anyway, sticker was $29,890. Dealer sticker was $32,885 after $2995
>> for pin striping and door guards (what a joke). Wound up paying just
>> south of $21,000. After taxes and tags, trading in our 2002 Elantra,
>> and $5,000 down, we financed around $12,000.
>>
>> We wound up with a blue SE with the ~$3000 DVD/entertainment package.
>> Let me say that we were really looking to buy the GLS with the small
>> option package (no DVD and a ton of other stuff we didn't need or
>> really want), but without even one of them on the lot, they were
>> unwilling to negotiate on getting one that way.
>>
>> I can't really offer too many impressions yet, except to say that it
>> really drives like a car. Build quality seems as good as, or slightly
>> better, than my 2006 Sonata. Oh, and the cup holders are plentiful and
>> well-designed :-)
>>
>> On the negative side, I now own two vehicles (or make payments on two
>> vehicles) that get worse mileage than the two they replaced. Kind of a
>> step backwards. But with a somewhat rapidly expanding family, I think
>> it was a more energy-efficient choice than buying some other vehicles
>> on the market.
>>
>> Well, more impressions to follow....once we figure out all the damned
>> buttons :-)
>>
>> Eric

Just checked www.CarsDirect.com and the price for my area in NY is
$25,635 plus tax and such, so the price you were quoted is in the
ballpark.

 

On 2006-07-24 04:36:46 -0400, NOLA Robert <nolarobert@yahoo.com> said:

> Eric:
>
> I look forward to your future posts on your new Entourage experience.
> My wife and I were ready to buy a Honda Odyssey when I read up on the
> new Hyundai Entourage. We test drove the Limited and then the SE on
> Sunday and just loved it. Financially, we are going to have to wait
> until the end of December to purchase one so I am going to spend time
> keeping up with this newsgroup to see how new owners of the Entourage
> feel about their new minivan. So you are providing a great public
> service to those of us who are planning to buy in the near future.
> Also, anyone with car buying tips please provide your insights. The
> dealer gave me a walk out the door price, tax, tags, title of $28,970.
> That includes the 8.5% sales tax here in Jefferson Parish Louisiana.
> That was for the SE with Package Option 2, so no DVD Entertainment
> system or Infinity Sound System. That price seems to be what they are
> asking from my research at the online car websites. Does this jibe
> with your experience or is their a way for me to strike a better deal.
> We won't have a trade-in and we will pay 10,000 down payment.
>
> Thanks again for the great feedback. I hope your Entourage experience
> is a damned good one!
>
> Robert in Metairie, LA
>
>
> On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:12:59 GMT, "Eric G."
> <NgOrSePeAnM99@Zoptonline.Znet> wrote:
>
>> My dealer is having a special this month. They are offering 30% off
>> every Hyundai in stock. The 30% is off the dealer markup sticker and
>> NOT the Hyundai sticker.
>>
>> When I got to the dealer, and expressed my interest in an Entourage SE,
>> all of a sudden the 30% off had exclusions, and one of them was the
>> Entourage. Only 10% off, plus the $1500 rebate from Hyundai.
>>
>> It took me threatening legal action, since the radio commercial has
>> clearly NO exceptions mentioned, but I did get my 30% off.
>>
>> Anyway, sticker was $29,890. Dealer sticker was $32,885 after $2995
>> for pin striping and door guards (what a joke). Wound up paying just
>> south of $21,000. After taxes and tags, trading in our 2002 Elantra,
>> and $5,000 down, we financed around $12,000.
>>
>> We wound up with a blue SE with the ~$3000 DVD/entertainment package.
>> Let me say that we were really looking to buy the GLS with the small
>> option package (no DVD and a ton of other stuff we didn't need or
>> really want), but without even one of them on the lot, they were
>> unwilling to negotiate on getting one that way.
>>
>> I can't really offer too many impressions yet, except to say that it
>> really drives like a car. Build quality seems as good as, or slightly
>> better, than my 2006 Sonata. Oh, and the cup holders are plentiful and
>> well-designed :-)
>>
>> On the negative side, I now own two vehicles (or make payments on two
>> vehicles) that get worse mileage than the two they replaced. Kind of a
>> step backwards. But with a somewhat rapidly expanding family, I think
>> it was a more energy-efficient choice than buying some other vehicles
>> on the market.
>>
>> Well, more impressions to follow....once we figure out all the damned
>> buttons :-)
>>
>> Eric

Just checked www.CarsDirect.com and the price for my area in NY is
$25,635 plus tax and such, so the price you were quoted is in the
ballpark.

 

NOLA Robert <nolarobert@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:c619c2pu3prk97umcmn9csvdk3sk7b720j@4ax.com:


> Thanks again for the great feedback. I hope your Entourage experience
> is a damned good one!
>
> Robert in Metairie, LA
>

Since you asked....So far we have just under 1300 miles on our
Entourage. My wife is filling up on her way home, but so far we have
averaged 16.2 MPG. Not quite was I was hoping for, but our driving has
mostly been city so far. We have a couple of long trips planned soon,
and I really hope that brings the average up.

Of course, it has been so damned hot lately that BOTH air conditioners
have been running most of the time. With 2 compressors going almost
full-tilt I am sure that is what is impacting the mileage the most. I
try to turn the rear unit off most of the time, but my wife is using it
as the daily driver, and I found the thing was on all last week!! OK,
it was 100 degrees here and all, but with no rear passengers, that is
just a waste IMO.

Other than the mileage, we have been very pleased with the vehicle. It
is much smoother than my '06 Sonata (longer wheelbase) and is very
pleasent to drive. It has more than adequate acceleration.

One minor problem we have is that when the front AC compressor is on,
the engine sounds like it is knocking. I suspect a bad bearing in the
AC compressor, or possibly something wrong with the clutch. It is on
the list for the dealer to check out as soon as we can get it in.

The Infinity sound system is WAY overkill, but it is nice to be able to
burn MP3's or WMA's on a CD. My Sonata only plays MP3's.

The DVD system has turned out to be a nice thing for the kids, but I
still wouldn't have purchased it if I didn't have to.

Eric

 

NOLA Robert <nolarobert@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:c619c2pu3prk97umcmn9csvdk3sk7b720j@4ax.com:


> Thanks again for the great feedback. I hope your Entourage experience
> is a damned good one!
>
> Robert in Metairie, LA
>

Since you asked....So far we have just under 1300 miles on our
Entourage. My wife is filling up on her way home, but so far we have
averaged 16.2 MPG. Not quite was I was hoping for, but our driving has
mostly been city so far. We have a couple of long trips planned soon,
and I really hope that brings the average up.

Of course, it has been so damned hot lately that BOTH air conditioners
have been running most of the time. With 2 compressors going almost
full-tilt I am sure that is what is impacting the mileage the most. I
try to turn the rear unit off most of the time, but my wife is using it
as the daily driver, and I found the thing was on all last week!! OK,
it was 100 degrees here and all, but with no rear passengers, that is
just a waste IMO.

Other than the mileage, we have been very pleased with the vehicle. It
is much smoother than my '06 Sonata (longer wheelbase) and is very
pleasent to drive. It has more than adequate acceleration.

One minor problem we have is that when the front AC compressor is on,
the engine sounds like it is knocking. I suspect a bad bearing in the
AC compressor, or possibly something wrong with the clutch. It is on
the list for the dealer to check out as soon as we can get it in.

The Infinity sound system is WAY overkill, but it is nice to be able to
burn MP3's or WMA's on a CD. My Sonata only plays MP3's.

The DVD system has turned out to be a nice thing for the kids, but I
still wouldn't have purchased it if I didn't have to.

Eric

 

NOLA Robert <nolarobert@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:c619c2pu3prk97umcmn9csvdk3sk7b720j@4ax.com:


> Thanks again for the great feedback. I hope your Entourage experience
> is a damned good one!
>
> Robert in Metairie, LA
>

Since you asked....So far we have just under 1300 miles on our
Entourage. My wife is filling up on her way home, but so far we have
averaged 16.2 MPG. Not quite was I was hoping for, but our driving has
mostly been city so far. We have a couple of long trips planned soon,
and I really hope that brings the average up.

Of course, it has been so damned hot lately that BOTH air conditioners
have been running most of the time. With 2 compressors going almost
full-tilt I am sure that is what is impacting the mileage the most. I
try to turn the rear unit off most of the time, but my wife is using it
as the daily driver, and I found the thing was on all last week!! OK,
it was 100 degrees here and all, but with no rear passengers, that is
just a waste IMO.

Other than the mileage, we have been very pleased with the vehicle. It
is much smoother than my '06 Sonata (longer wheelbase) and is very
pleasent to drive. It has more than adequate acceleration.

One minor problem we have is that when the front AC compressor is on,
the engine sounds like it is knocking. I suspect a bad bearing in the
AC compressor, or possibly something wrong with the clutch. It is on
the list for the dealer to check out as soon as we can get it in.

The Infinity sound system is WAY overkill, but it is nice to be able to
burn MP3's or WMA's on a CD. My Sonata only plays MP3's.

The DVD system has turned out to be a nice thing for the kids, but I
still wouldn't have purchased it if I didn't have to.

Eric