Ed

On 1/18/2010 2:51 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> Ed wrote:
>>
>>> When was the last time you changed the wires and plugs?
>>> The stock and cheapo aftermarket ones should be done yearly.
>
> That would be a terrible waste of money. In the past 30 years, I've not
> gotten less than 60,000 miles from plugs and six years from wires. The
> newer cars have gone 100,000 miles and my '91 Regal had the original wires
> (seconds set of plugs) after 14 years and 160,000 miles. Ran as smooth as
> the day it was new.
>
>
To each their own, I would never run any car 100k on the same set or
plugs/wires. If you want to takes the chance that they won't fail in
that time because the manufacturer says that's how long they will last,
that's your choice. I just threw that out there as a possible symptom
from personal experience. Back in '05 I had the car throw a code, can't
remember which one, but it was blinking the cel and had gone into limp
home mode. I had it towed to the dealer and lo and behold it was a bad
wire. It had developed a small bad spot and was arching. I had them
replace the wires and plugs with oem and just shy of one year later the
same thing happened. I've since gone to ngk wires and plugs and changed
them yearly. Now while I probably could get more than a year or 20k out
of them, it's cheap insurance that I won't have that happen again
anytime soon. Now when I originally bought the car I thought that it was
strange that it could go so long not having certain things replaced that
I was used to doing yearly with my all the other cars I've owned, but
this was the first car I ever owned that was newer than '67.

Voyager

Ed wrote:

> To each their own, I would never run any car 100k on the same set or
> plugs/wires. If you want to takes the chance that they won't fail in
> that time because the manufacturer says that's how long they will last,
> that's your choice. I just threw that out there as a possible symptom
> from personal experience. Back in '05 I had the car throw a code, can't
> remember which one, but it was blinking the cel and had gone into limp
> home mode. I had it towed to the dealer and lo and behold it was a bad
> wire. It had developed a small bad spot and was arching. I had them
> replace the wires and plugs with oem and just shy of one year later the
> same thing happened. I've since gone to ngk wires and plugs and changed
> them yearly. Now while I probably could get more than a year or 20k out
> of them, it's cheap insurance that I won't have that happen again
> anytime soon. Now when I originally bought the car I thought that it was
> strange that it could go so long not having certain things replaced that
> I was used to doing yearly with my all the other cars I've owned, but
> this was the first car I ever owned that was newer than '67.

Much has changed since 1967! Since the demise of leaded gas and points
ignition, spark plugs last dramatically longer as do wires. I am
surprised that you had two wires fail in such a short time. Sounds like
you either just got two bad wires from the factory or they weren't
routed properly and were chafing on something.

I can't even remember the last time either a plug or plug wire failed
(and I can remember back at least 20 years). I tend to change them when
the manufacturer recommends as I know their recommendations tend to be
conservative. If they say 100,000 then you can almost guarantee they
will last 150, but I tend to stay closer to the recommendation.
However, I would never take the time for a visit to the garage unless I
had something else that needed attention. A faulty plug or plug wire is
typically pretty apparent.

Matt

Ed Pawlowski

Ed wrote:
>
>> To each their own, I would never run any car 100k on the same set or
>> plugs/wires. If you want to takes the chance that they won't fail in
>> that time because the manufacturer says that's how long they will
>> last, that's your choice.
> Now while I probably
>> could get more than a year or 20k out of them, it's cheap insurance

Not cheap at all
It is the sensible choice of millions of car owners in the past 20 years or
so. As stated, my cars get the same fuel milage, same smooth running, same
performance as they day t hey came from the showroom. I'm hundreds of
dollars ahead of you in the same time frame. A set of wires and plugs is
about $85 today if you DIY. If you change every year, you've had a little
piece of mind, while I spent less than that to rent a villa in Italy for a
week. Or heat my house for over a year. Or buy a big screen TV, or a new
table saw. Your money, your choice.



>> Now when I
>> originally bought the car I thought that it was strange that it
>> could go so long not having certain things replaced that I was used
>> to doing yearly with my all the other cars I've owned, but this was
>> the first car I ever owned that was newer than '67.

Please, fast forward 40 years. How often do you change oil? I hope you are
not one of those 3000 mile guys that wastes a lot of money too. The car
makers say 7500 miles. In 100,000 miles, the difference is 20 oil changes.
They typically run about $30 (and up) so the difference is another $600.
That covers my air fare to Milan, round trip.

In my first car, I'd pull and clean the plugs every few thousand miles,
replace them by 10,000. But that was a '53 Mercury with flathead V-8.
Added oil every few hundred miles too. It has been years since I've added
any oil between changes.

While I'm sipping Chianti with good bread and cheese in Tuscany, I'll be
thinking of you under the hood trying to get those back plugs out.

Ed

On 1/18/2010 7:46 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> Ed wrote:
>>
>>> To each their own, I would never run any car 100k on the same set or
>>> plugs/wires. If you want to takes the chance that they won't fail in
>>> that time because the manufacturer says that's how long they will
>>> last, that's your choice.
>> Now while I probably
>>> could get more than a year or 20k out of them, it's cheap insurance
>
> Not cheap at all
> It is the sensible choice of millions of car owners in the past 20 years or
> so. As stated, my cars get the same fuel milage, same smooth running, same
> performance as they day t hey came from the showroom. I'm hundreds of
> dollars ahead of you in the same time frame. A set of wires and plugs is
> about $85 today if you DIY. If you change every year, you've had a little
> piece of mind, while I spent less than that to rent a villa in Italy for a
> week. Or heat my house for over a year. Or buy a big screen TV, or a new
> table saw. Your money, your choice.
>
>
>
>>> Now when I
>>> originally bought the car I thought that it was strange that it
>>> could go so long not having certain things replaced that I was used
>>> to doing yearly with my all the other cars I've owned, but this was
>>> the first car I ever owned that was newer than '67.
>
> Please, fast forward 40 years. How often do you change oil? I hope you are
> not one of those 3000 mile guys that wastes a lot of money too. The car
> makers say 7500 miles. In 100,000 miles, the difference is 20 oil changes.
> They typically run about $30 (and up) so the difference is another $600.
> That covers my air fare to Milan, round trip.
>
> In my first car, I'd pull and clean the plugs every few thousand miles,
> replace them by 10,000. But that was a '53 Mercury with flathead V-8.
> Added oil every few hundred miles too. It has been years since I've added
> any oil between changes.
>
> While I'm sipping Chianti with good bread and cheese in Tuscany, I'll be
> thinking of you under the hood trying to get those back plugs out.
>
>
>
>
$85? I've never spent more than $40 for both. And I don't have "back
plugs", I have an elantra, they are all on the top. It's funny how you
had to try and boost your ego by talking about renting a villa in Italy
and buying big ticket items. Who cares? That's really not the point
here, the OP asked what may be causing their misfire and I suggest
something that has happened to me with similar symptoms. And actually it
says 3000 miles between oil changes in my owners manual, although I go
about 6000 - 7000 miles between using Royal Purple. It's just my
preference.

B.C. MALLAM

On 1/18/10 4:44 PM, in article dv55n.1639$8x3.634@newsfe19.iad, "Voyager"
<m.whiting@computer.org> wrote:

> Ed wrote:
>
>> To each their own, I would never run any car 100k on the same set or
>> plugs/wires. If you want to takes the chance that they won't fail in
>> that time because the manufacturer says that's how long they will last,
>> that's your choice. I just threw that out there as a possible symptom
>> from personal experience. Back in '05 I had the car throw a code, can't
>> remember which one, but it was blinking the cel and had gone into limp
>> home mode. I had it towed to the dealer and lo and behold it was a bad
>> wire. It had developed a small bad spot and was arching. I had them
>> replace the wires and plugs with oem and just shy of one year later the
>> same thing happened. I've since gone to ngk wires and plugs and changed
>> them yearly. Now while I probably could get more than a year or 20k out
>> of them, it's cheap insurance that I won't have that happen again
>> anytime soon. Now when I originally bought the car I thought that it was
>> strange that it could go so long not having certain things replaced that
>> I was used to doing yearly with my all the other cars I've owned, but
>> this was the first car I ever owned that was newer than '67.
>
> Much has changed since 1967! Since the demise of leaded gas and points
> ignition, spark plugs last dramatically longer as do wires. I am
> surprised that you had two wires fail in such a short time. Sounds like
> you either just got two bad wires from the factory or they weren't
> routed properly and were chafing on something.
>
> I can't even remember the last time either a plug or plug wire failed
> (and I can remember back at least 20 years). I tend to change them when
> the manufacturer recommends as I know their recommendations tend to be
> conservative. If they say 100,000 then you can almost guarantee they
> will last 150, but I tend to stay closer to the recommendation.
> However, I would never take the time for a visit to the garage unless I
> had something else that needed attention. A faulty plug or plug wire is
> typically pretty apparent.
>
> Matt
The old trick of opening the hood at night with the engine running and
looking for arching wires still works.

Voyager

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>
> While I'm sipping Chianti with good bread and cheese in Tuscany, I'll be
> thinking of you under the hood trying to get those back plugs out.

You are a cruel man, Mr. Pawlowski, but I agree with you analysis. :-)

Matt

Voyager

B.C. MALLAM wrote:

> The old trick of opening the hood at night with the engine running and
> looking for arching wires still works.

Well, most of my plug wires arch all of the time, but they seldom arc. :-)

Matt

Voyager

hyundaitech wrote:
> On Jan 9, 8:18 pm, Voyager <m.whit...@computer.org> wrote:
>> Hyundaitech,
>>
>> My Sonata threw a code tonight. Is a code reader the only way to access
>> the code? Is there a secret handshake method such as what GM and
>> Chrysler have had for years?
>>
>> For those who don't know, on both of these brands you can read many
>> codes yourself. On the GM, you short two pins on the code reader
>> connector and the code will flash on the check engine light. Chrysler
>> is even smarter. There you, if memory serves, turn the ignition key
>> from off to on to off to on to off again in less than something like 3
>> seconds and the code will flash on the MIL.
>>
>> Does Hyundai have a secret handshake method?
>
> Unfortunately, no. Such is the case with nearly every OBD-II
> product. You'll need an OBD-II code reader. If you're planning on
> purchase, choose one that's CAN compatible so you'll get the most
> future use out of it.

Stopped by the dealer today and they read the code, which this time was
there and the light was still on. I didn't write down the number, but I
believe he said it was a P2167. It was a "lean" indication and they
suspect the O2 sensor. I take the car in on Thursday to get it fixed.

Matt

Ed

On 1/19/2010 2:40 PM, Voyager wrote:
> hyundaitech wrote:
>> On Jan 9, 8:18 pm, Voyager <m.whit...@computer.org> wrote:
>>> Hyundaitech,
>>>
>>> My Sonata threw a code tonight. Is a code reader the only way to access
>>> the code? Is there a secret handshake method such as what GM and
>>> Chrysler have had for years?
>>>
>>> For those who don't know, on both of these brands you can read many
>>> codes yourself. On the GM, you short two pins on the code reader
>>> connector and the code will flash on the check engine light. Chrysler
>>> is even smarter. There you, if memory serves, turn the ignition key
>>> from off to on to off to on to off again in less than something like 3
>>> seconds and the code will flash on the MIL.
>>>
>>> Does Hyundai have a secret handshake method?
>>
>> Unfortunately, no. Such is the case with nearly every OBD-II
>> product. You'll need an OBD-II code reader. If you're planning on
>> purchase, choose one that's CAN compatible so you'll get the most
>> future use out of it.
>
> Stopped by the dealer today and they read the code, which this time was
> there and the light was still on. I didn't write down the number, but I
> believe he said it was a P2167. It was a "lean" indication and they
> suspect the O2 sensor. I take the car in on Thursday to get it fixed.
>
> Matt
Well at least now you know. I assume this will be repaired under warranty?

Ed

"Ed" <chztoast@gmail.com> wrote in message
> $85? I've never spent more than $40 for both. And I don't have "back
> plugs", I have an elantra, they are all on the top. It's funny how you had
> to try and boost your ego by talking about renting a villa in Italy and
> buying big ticket items. Who cares?

Now I unsderstand better. If you don't like the message, attack the
messenger.

At $40 for both, maybe you do have to replace them more often. Anyhow, with
the savings, you can buy 625 cans of Campbell's Tomato Soup. Or 200
gallons of diet cola on sale. We have a bottle deposit in our state so
maybe only 185 gallons until you redeem the empties.

Your friend,
Ed P

Ed

"Voyager" <m.whiting@computer.org> wrote in message
> Stopped by the dealer today and they read the code, which this time was
> there and the light was still on. I didn't write down the number, but I
> believe he said it was a P2167. It was a "lean" indication and they
> suspect the O2 sensor. I take the car in on Thursday to get it fixed.
>
> Matt

Interesting. I wonder why it showed after a fill up. I'd have thought
something like that would happen under any circumstances. It does prove
that the shade tree mechanic is a thing of the past unless he has a code
reader.

Ed

On 1/19/2010 7:10 PM, Ed wrote:
> "Voyager"<m.whiting@computer.org> wrote in message
>> Stopped by the dealer today and they read the code, which this time was
>> there and the light was still on. I didn't write down the number, but I
>> believe he said it was a P2167. It was a "lean" indication and they
>> suspect the O2 sensor. I take the car in on Thursday to get it fixed.
>>
>> Matt
>
> Interesting. I wonder why it showed after a fill up. I'd have thought
> something like that would happen under any circumstances. It does prove
> that the shade tree mechanic is a thing of the past unless he has a code
> reader.
>
>
Yep, one of the best investments I ever made.

Ed

On 1/19/2010 7:06 PM, Ed wrote:
> "Ed"<chztoast@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> $85? I've never spent more than $40 for both. And I don't have "back
>> plugs", I have an elantra, they are all on the top. It's funny how you had
>> to try and boost your ego by talking about renting a villa in Italy and
>> buying big ticket items. Who cares?
>
> Now I unsderstand better. If you don't like the message, attack the
> messenger.
>
> At $40 for both, maybe you do have to replace them more often. Anyhow, with
> the savings, you can buy 625 cans of Campbell's Tomato Soup. Or 200
> gallons of diet cola on sale. We have a bottle deposit in our state so
> maybe only 185 gallons until you redeem the empties.
>
> Your friend,
> Ed P
>
>
>
>
I wasn't the only "attacker" here. I just don't know why you needed to
critique my replacement regiment by boasting how you spend your money.
Remember any one the internet can be a prince of Nigeria. As for the
quality of my plugs and wires, if you don't know how good NGK's are, you
probably shouldn't be handing out advice. I've only had problems with
the oems so far, the NGK's have been great. If you would like to
critique my other regular maintenance, here's my schedule:

Air filter @ every oil change (granted it's just a wash and re-oil, K&N
filter)
Coolant: yearly
PS fluid: every 2 years
Brake fluid: every brake job
Blinker fluid: haven't had to replace that yet, the muffler bearings
either.

Ed P

"Ed" <chztoast@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:kLv5n.68876$er1.31660@en-nntp->>
>>
>>
>>
> I wasn't the only "attacker" here. I just don't know why you needed to
> critique my replacement regiment by boasting how you spend your money.

I didn't see any other "attackers" but I don't know why you are jealous of
how I spend my money. Everyone has their personal tastes. People buy
extended warraties and service plans and never use them too. Their choice.
If I spent my money on un-needed services, I'd not be able to travel every
few years. But don't stop on my account.


> Remember any one the internet can be a prince of Nigeria.

I'm regarded as Royalty in Poland.

As for the
> quality of my plugs and wires, if you don't know how good NGK's are, you
> probably shouldn't be handing out advice. I've only had problems with the
> oems so far, the NGK's have been great. If you would like to critique my
> other regular maintenance, here's my schedule:
>
> Air filter @ every oil change (granted it's just a wash and re-oil, K&N
> filter)
> Coolant: yearly
> PS fluid: every 2 years

Never tried the K&N filters. I've heard too much negative on them. OTOH,
I've never had a problem with paper filters so I'll continue to use them.
They work so why play with oil? Change as recommended at 30,000

Coolant today is good for 3 to 5 years. I go that long and have never had a
cooling problem since my '53 Merc. I've never changed PS fluid even after
15 years and 200,000 miles.

Considering that track record, I'm not going to change my schedule to spend
more money. As for automatic trasmissions, I've only ever change fluid in
one of them in 48 years of car ownership. Only one has ever has tranny
failure. Guess which one? I'll never change it again.

..

> Brake fluid: every brake job

I'd agree on that. In my case, about 3+ years and 60k+ miles.

Ed

On 1/20/2010 8:20 PM, Ed P wrote:
> "Ed"<chztoast@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:kLv5n.68876$er1.31660@en-nntp->>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I wasn't the only "attacker" here. I just don't know why you needed to
>> critique my replacement regiment by boasting how you spend your money.
>
> I didn't see any other "attackers" but I don't know why you are jealous of
> how I spend my money. Everyone has their personal tastes. People buy
> extended warraties and service plans and never use them too. Their choice.
> If I spent my money on un-needed services, I'd not be able to travel every
> few years. But don't stop on my account.
>
>
>> Remember any one the internet can be a prince of Nigeria.
>
> I'm regarded as Royalty in Poland.
>
> As for the
>> quality of my plugs and wires, if you don't know how good NGK's are, you
>> probably shouldn't be handing out advice. I've only had problems with the
>> oems so far, the NGK's have been great. If you would like to critique my
>> other regular maintenance, here's my schedule:
>>
>> Air filter @ every oil change (granted it's just a wash and re-oil, K&N
>> filter)
>> Coolant: yearly
>> PS fluid: every 2 years
>
> Never tried the K&N filters. I've heard too much negative on them. OTOH,
> I've never had a problem with paper filters so I'll continue to use them.
> They work so why play with oil? Change as recommended at 30,000
>
> Coolant today is good for 3 to 5 years. I go that long and have never had a
> cooling problem since my '53 Merc. I've never changed PS fluid even after
> 15 years and 200,000 miles.
>
> Considering that track record, I'm not going to change my schedule to spend
> more money. As for automatic trasmissions, I've only ever change fluid in
> one of them in 48 years of car ownership. Only one has ever has tranny
> failure. Guess which one? I'll never change it again.
>
> .
>
>> Brake fluid: every brake job
>
> I'd agree on that. In my case, about 3+ years and 60k+ miles.
>
>
>
>
>
Wow, must be easy being oblivious. I'm not sure how you figure I'm
jealous of how you spend your money. I just said that if you feel the
need to brag about how you spend it in this post it's only to boost your
ego. And you were the other "attacker", you attacked my suggestion to
replace spark plugs yearly. You may not agree with that and that is
fine. You attacked the amount of money I "waste" on maintenance. Fine if
you don't want to do maintenance on the same schedule, but you don't
have to brag that you buy high ticket items and go on European
vacations. All you had to do was say something like "I don't change them
yearly, they should last longer than that." Or "I haven't needed to
change my coolant in 5 years and it is still fine." But no, you had to
go and come off sounding like a douche. I'll agree that I may change
some of my fluids more often than needed, but that's my choice.

And for you other people reading this exchange, you should do your
maintenance as you see fit, or at the recommendation of your favorite
service tech. Really what's important here is keeping our cars running
like new and however you go about achieving that is fine.