Matt Whiting

me@privacy.net wrote:
> Vic Garcia wrote:
>
>
>>>
>> Actually, those are not the engineers talking, those are the stupid
>> politicians forcing every manufacturer to install expensive devices to
>> protect some Owls in in Oregon.
>> If they removed all that emission crap, the increase on efficiency and
>> lower gas use will make better for the environment, but of course,
>> then, big oil will not make record profits, and Detroit will not sell
>> a single car ... fat chance of that happening.
>
>
> AMEN!!!!!

Wow, two clueless folks in a row.

Catalytic convertors and related pollution controls remove something
upwards of 90% of the pollutants that would otherwise be emitted. To
make that up with better mileage alone would require that cars get 10
times better fuel mileage without the pollution controls. You can
believe all of the gimmick ads you want, but thermodynamics precludes
this happening.


Matt

Vic Garcia

Matt Whiting wrote:
> me@privacy.net wrote:
>> Vic Garcia wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>
>>> Actually, those are not the engineers talking, those are the stupid
>>> politicians forcing every manufacturer to install expensive devices
>>> to protect some Owls in in Oregon.
>>> If they removed all that emission crap, the increase on efficiency
>>> and lower gas use will make better for the environment, but of
>>> course, then, big oil will not make record profits, and Detroit will
>>> not sell a single car ... fat chance of that happening.
>>
>>
>> AMEN!!!!!
>
> Wow, two clueless folks in a row.
>
> Catalytic convertors and related pollution controls remove something
> upwards of 90% of the pollutants that would otherwise be emitted. To
> make that up with better mileage alone would require that cars get 10
> times better fuel mileage without the pollution controls. You can
> believe all of the gimmick ads you want, but thermodynamics precludes
> this happening.
>
>
> Matt
Actually, you are the one more or less, clueless, you only took into
account the local effects, not the global ones.

First, that figure of 90% is way out of real life values; it's more like
40%, most of he improvements came from better and clean gas.
Second, while in a big engine (Detroit type) the lost of power is around
20%, in a small, more efficient one it can be near 50%, a big hit on gas
use, I did owned 3 Ford Fiestas, 2 Europeans: 0.9L, 1.1L and 1 American:
1.6L with all that junk in .... result:
less power than the small euro engine, 40% more gas used .....
Third, all the emission junk add: weight (more gas to move it), more
parts to break (more money out of your pocket) and a lot of pollution in
the places they are manufactured (catalytic converters use rare metals
as the catalytic agent), while that does not affect you or me, locally
it's there in the planet, and we ALL have to share it.

In a global perspective those devices, create more pollution than what
they prevent.
Same thing apply to the hybrids, the battery manufacturing plants
generate more pollution making the first set of batteries, than what the
car will save over their life ... so what's the point ??????

Simple, it's not in my backyard, the polluting materials are made on
another countries .... well, we are Earth citizens, mother Nature will
get back to us eventually.

Mike Marlow

<me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:54b485F20a2q1U3@mid.individual.net...
> Vic Garcia wrote:
>
>
> >>
> > Actually, those are not the engineers talking, those are the stupid
> > politicians forcing every manufacturer to install expensive devices to
> > protect some Owls in in Oregon.
> > If they removed all that emission crap, the increase on efficiency and
> > lower gas use will make better for the environment, but of course, then,
> > big oil will not make record profits, and Detroit will not sell a single
> > car ... fat chance of that happening.
>
> AMEN!!!!!

Amen??? Hell, cars today last years longer and go hundreds of thousands of
miles as a standard expectation. The great cars of yesteryear didn't
approach the longevity and reliability of today's cars. Nor did they
approach the fuel mileage. Now, I'm with ya if you really miss the big
block torque and HP of days gone by, but that's a lot different than what
the OP stated.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Hyundaitech

Continued fueling after the automatic pump shutoff can force fuel into
the vapor control system. That, in turn, can prevent the vapor
control system from working properly, and cause the ECM to illuminate
the check engine lamp

"Guncho" wrote
> On Feb 23, 3:24 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote:
> > "Guncho" <cgun...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > >> All cars say that now. It has to do with the emissions
> system. You need
> > >> some airspace in the tank for the recirculation system to
> work properly.
> > >> .
> >
> > > So you agree that you shouldn't top up?
> >
> > Right. The few extra ounces you get in the tank may cause
> the check engine
> > light to come on if nothing else. I've had that happen with
> my Buick.
> > While it did not cause a mechanical problem, it was an
> un-needed annoyance.
> > Sometimes the engineers know what they are talking about.
>
> HOLY CRAP! Maybe that's why my Check Engine light comes on
> all the
> time after refuelling!
>
> Chris

--
Posted at author's request, using http://www.AutoBoardz.com interface
Articles individually verified to usenet standards. Visit URL to contact author/report abuse
Thread archive: http://www.AutoBoardz.com/Topping-Fu...ict207216.html

Guncho

On Feb 24, 9:16 am, Matt Whiting <whit...@epix.net> wrote:
> Guncho wrote:
> > On Feb 23, 9:44 pm, Matt Whiting <whit...@epix.net> wrote:
>
> >>Guncho wrote:
>
> >>>On Feb 23, 2:56 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote:
>
> >>>>"Guncho" <cgun...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >>>>news:1172260115.872929.132640@8g2000cwh.google groups.com...
>
> >>>>>I just acquired a copy of the manual for my 1999 Hyundai Accent GSI
> >>>>>and it says you should not top up the tank when refueling.
>
> >>>>>What's the rationale behind that?
>
> >>>>All cars say that now. It has to do with the emissions system. You need
> >>>>some airspace in the tank for the recirculation system to work properly. .
>
> >>>So you agree that you shouldn't top up?
>
> >>Yes. When the pump shuts off automatically, you shouldn't add a lot
> >>more fuel. After the pump kicks off, I tend to run up to the nearest 10
> >>cents and then stop.
>
> >>Matt- Hide quoted text -
>
> >>- Show quoted text -
>
> > Damn I always fill it til it overflows a little to prolong my not
> > having to fill up.
>
> > Guess you learn something new everyday!
>
> Yes, you learn that it pays to ead your owner's manual when you get a
> new car! :-)
>
> Matt- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

We actually didn't get an owner's manual when we bought this used
car. I just bought one on Ebay.

Chris

Matt Whiting

Guncho wrote:
> On Feb 24, 9:16 am, Matt Whiting <whit...@epix.net> wrote:
>
>>Guncho wrote:
>>
>>>On Feb 23, 9:44 pm, Matt Whiting <whit...@epix.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>Guncho wrote:
>>
>>>>>On Feb 23, 2:56 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>"Guncho" <cgun...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>>>>>>news:1172260115.872929.132640@8g2000cwh.goog legroups.com...
>>
>>>>>>>I just acquired a copy of the manual for my 1999 Hyundai Accent GSI
>>>>>>>and it says you should not top up the tank when refueling.
>>
>>>>>>>What's the rationale behind that?
>>
>>>>>>All cars say that now. It has to do with the emissions system. You need
>>>>>>some airspace in the tank for the recirculation system to work properly. .
>>
>>>>>So you agree that you shouldn't top up?
>>
>>>>Yes. When the pump shuts off automatically, you shouldn't add a lot
>>>>more fuel. After the pump kicks off, I tend to run up to the nearest 10
>>>>cents and then stop.
>>
>>>>Matt- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>>>- Show quoted text -
>>
>>>Damn I always fill it til it overflows a little to prolong my not
>>>having to fill up.
>>
>>>Guess you learn something new everyday!
>>
>>Yes, you learn that it pays to ead your owner's manual when you get a
>>new car! :-)
>>
>>Matt- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>- Show quoted text -
>
>
> We actually didn't get an owner's manual when we bought this used
> car. I just bought one on Ebay.

The last two used minivans I bought didn't have owners manuals either,
but I asked for one as part of the deal and both times the dealer said
no problem and bought me one. It is a small thing, but I like to read
the manual when I get a new (new to me) vehicle.

Matt

me@privacy.net

Matt Whiting wrote:

> me@privacy.net wrote:
>
>> Vic Garcia wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>
>>> Actually, those are not the engineers talking, those are the stupid
>>> politicians forcing every manufacturer to install expensive devices
>>> to protect some Owls in in Oregon.
>>> If they removed all that emission crap, the increase on efficiency
>>> and lower gas use will make better for the environment, but of
>>> course, then, big oil will not make record profits, and Detroit will
>>> not sell a single car ... fat chance of that happening.
>>
>>
>>
>> AMEN!!!!!
>
>
> Wow, two clueless folks in a row.
>
> Catalytic convertors and related pollution controls remove something
> upwards of 90% of the pollutants that would otherwise be emitted. To
> make that up with better mileage alone would require that cars get 10
> times better fuel mileage without the pollution controls. You can
> believe all of the gimmick ads you want, but thermodynamics precludes
> this happening.
>
>
> Matt

Talk about CLUELESS?!?! Read this:

*http://tinyurl.com/3b6qz8*

me@privacy.net

Matt Whiting wrote:

> Guncho wrote:
>
>> On Feb 23, 9:44 pm, Matt Whiting <whit...@epix.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Guncho wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Feb 23, 2:56 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> "Guncho" <cgun...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>>
>>>>> news:1172260115.872929.132640@8g2000cwh.googlegrou ps.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> I just acquired a copy of the manual for my 1999 Hyundai Accent GSI
>>>>>> and it says you should not top up the tank when refueling.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> What's the rationale behind that?
>>>
>>>
>>>>> All cars say that now. It has to do with the emissions system.
>>>>> You need
>>>>> some airspace in the tank for the recirculation system to work
>>>>> properly. .
>>>
>>>
>>>> So you agree that you shouldn't top up?
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes. When the pump shuts off automatically, you shouldn't add a lot
>>> more fuel. After the pump kicks off, I tend to run up to the nearest 10
>>> cents and then stop.
>>>
>>> Matt- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>>
>>
>> Damn I always fill it til it overflows a little to prolong my not
>> having to fill up.
>>
>> Guess you learn something new everyday!
>
>
> Yes, you learn that it pays to ead your owner's manual when you get a
> new car! :-)
>
> Matt

READ?!?! You gotta be kidding! People don't read those things, or any
other owner's manual, for that matter. If it "ain't" on TV, they know
don't know anything about it!

I'm a tech geek by nature and, fortunately, have a natural affinity for
computers, VCR's, TV's, and other electronic gear. What I experience is
that most folks buy that fancy new computer and never bother to learn
what all those "thingies" on the screen are called, or how to use the
beast. I spend 3/4 of my time helping these folks, asking them to
describe EXACTLY what they see---NOT "you know, that thing on the left"!

Still others don't know how to eliminate the flashing "12:00 AM" from
their VCR's. And, setting up a modern TV--no way! Even though all the
instructions are right there in the owner's manual. I know--I have to
read some of them for the more complicated setups.

VCR Plus came about to help these techno-***** program to record "The
Simpsons". But, most don't even have a clue how to set up the VCR Plus
stuff.

Man, don't get me started about the cluelessness of consumers of today.
I think most of them need to repeat the first grade.

Guncho

On Feb 26, 10:20 am, m...@privacy.net wrote:
> Matt Whiting wrote:
> > m...@privacy.net wrote:
>
> >> Vic Garcia wrote:
>
> >>> Actually, those are not the engineers talking, those are the stupid
> >>> politicians forcing every manufacturer to install expensive devices
> >>> to protect some Owls in in Oregon.
> >>> If they removed all that emission crap, the increase on efficiency
> >>> and lower gas use will make better for the environment, but of
> >>> course, then, big oil will not make record profits, and Detroit will
> >>> not sell a single car ... fat chance of that happening.
>
> >> AMEN!!!!!
>
> > Wow, two clueless folks in a row.
>
> > Catalytic convertors and related pollution controls remove something
> > upwards of 90% of the pollutants that would otherwise be emitted. To
> > make that up with better mileage alone would require that cars get 10
> > times better fuel mileage without the pollution controls. You can
> > believe all of the gimmick ads you want, but thermodynamics precludes
> > this happening.
>
> > Matt
>
> Talk about CLUELESS?!?! Read this:
>
> *http://tinyurl.com/3b6qz8*- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

What the does that have to do with my car?

Chris

Guncho

On Feb 26, 10:36 am, m...@privacy.net wrote:
> Matt Whiting wrote:
> > Guncho wrote:
>
> >> On Feb 23, 9:44 pm, Matt Whiting <whit...@epix.net> wrote:
>
> >>> Guncho wrote:
>
> >>>> On Feb 23, 2:56 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote:
>
> >>>>> "Guncho" <cgun...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >>>>>news:1172260115.872929.132640@8g2000cwh.googl egroups.com...
>
> >>>>>> I just acquired a copy of the manual for my 1999 Hyundai Accent GSI
> >>>>>> and it says you should not top up the tank when refueling.
>
> >>>>>> What's the rationale behind that?
>
> >>>>> All cars say that now. It has to do with the emissions system.
> >>>>> You need
> >>>>> some airspace in the tank for the recirculation system to work
> >>>>> properly. .
>
> >>>> So you agree that you shouldn't top up?
>
> >>> Yes. When the pump shuts off automatically, you shouldn't add a lot
> >>> more fuel. After the pump kicks off, I tend to run up to the nearest 10
> >>> cents and then stop.
>
> >>> Matt- Hide quoted text -
>
> >>> - Show quoted text -
>
> >> Damn I always fill it til it overflows a little to prolong my not
> >> having to fill up.
>
> >> Guess you learn something new everyday!
>
> > Yes, you learn that it pays to ead your owner's manual when you get a
> > new car! :-)
>
> > Matt
>
> READ?!?! You gotta be kidding! People don't read those things, or any
> other owner's manual, for that matter. If it "ain't" on TV, they know
> don't know anything about it!
>
> I'm a tech geek by nature and, fortunately, have a natural affinity for
> computers, VCR's, TV's, and other electronic gear. What I experience is
> that most folks buy that fancy new computer and never bother to learn
> what all those "thingies" on the screen are called, or how to use the
> beast. I spend 3/4 of my time helping these folks, asking them to
> describe EXACTLY what they see---NOT "you know, that thing on the left"!
>
> Still others don't know how to eliminate the flashing "12:00 AM" from
> their VCR's. And, setting up a modern TV--no way! Even though all the
> instructions are right there in the owner's manual. I know--I have to
> read some of them for the more complicated setups.
>
> VCR Plus came about to help these techno-***** program to record "The
> Simpsons". But, most don't even have a clue how to set up the VCR Plus
> stuff.
>
> Man, don't get me started about the cluelessness of consumers of today.
> I think most of them need to repeat the first grade.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I'm a natural born manual reader.

Chris

Eric G.

"Guncho" <cgunter@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1172508089.257207.81660@v33g2000cwv.googlegro ups.com:

>> Man, don't get me started about the cluelessness of consumers of
>> today.
>> I think most of them need to repeat the first grade.- Hide quoted
>> text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I'm a natural born manual reader.
>
> Chris

Me too. I mean what else IS there to do on the crapper :-)

Eric

Mike Marlow

"Eric G." <NgOrSePeAnM99@Zoptonline.Znet> wrote in message
news:Xns98E388C1F715DXz124HiiUdfEEE6@140.99.99.130 ...


>
> Me too. I mean what else IS there to do on the crapper :-)
>

Guitar practice.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Eric G.

"Mike Marlow" <mmarlow@alltel.net> wrote in news:ca99$45e34af0$4528952d
$17852@ALLTEL.NET:

>
> "Eric G." <NgOrSePeAnM99@Zoptonline.Znet> wrote in message
> news:Xns98E388C1F715DXz124HiiUdfEEE6@140.99.99.130 ...
>
>
>>
>> Me too. I mean what else IS there to do on the crapper :-)
>>
>
> Guitar practice.

Strummin' your 6 on the can is something you should probably keep to
yourself :-P

Eric

Matt Whiting

me@privacy.net wrote:
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>> me@privacy.net wrote:
>>
>>> Vic Garcia wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Actually, those are not the engineers talking, those are the stupid
>>>> politicians forcing every manufacturer to install expensive devices
>>>> to protect some Owls in in Oregon.
>>>> If they removed all that emission crap, the increase on efficiency
>>>> and lower gas use will make better for the environment, but of
>>>> course, then, big oil will not make record profits, and Detroit will
>>>> not sell a single car ... fat chance of that happening.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> AMEN!!!!!
>>
>>
>>
>> Wow, two clueless folks in a row.
>>
>> Catalytic convertors and related pollution controls remove something
>> upwards of 90% of the pollutants that would otherwise be emitted. To
>> make that up with better mileage alone would require that cars get 10
>> times better fuel mileage without the pollution controls. You can
>> believe all of the gimmick ads you want, but thermodynamics precludes
>> this happening.
>>
>>
>> Matt
>
>
> Talk about CLUELESS?!?! Read this:
>
> *http://tinyurl.com/3b6qz8*

Which has no connection to the discussion at hand. I agree that the
global warming hysteria is simply that, but that is completely
unconnected to the discussion about current automotive pollution
controls contribute to pollution or prevent it. The claims that they
actually contribute to polluiont through increased gas usage are just
hilarious. So, I guess maybe there is a connection to global warming
.... both claims are equally ludicrous.

Matt

Matt Whiting

me@privacy.net wrote:

> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>> Guncho wrote:
>>
>>> On Feb 23, 9:44 pm, Matt Whiting <whit...@epix.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Guncho wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 23, 2:56 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> "Guncho" <cgun...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> news:1172260115.872929.132640@8g2000cwh.googlegrou ps.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> I just acquired a copy of the manual for my 1999 Hyundai Accent GSI
>>>>>>> and it says you should not top up the tank when refueling.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> What's the rationale behind that?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> All cars say that now. It has to do with the emissions system.
>>>>>> You need
>>>>>> some airspace in the tank for the recirculation system to work
>>>>>> properly. .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> So you agree that you shouldn't top up?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes. When the pump shuts off automatically, you shouldn't add a lot
>>>> more fuel. After the pump kicks off, I tend to run up to the
>>>> nearest 10
>>>> cents and then stop.
>>>>
>>>> Matt- Hide quoted text -
>>>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Damn I always fill it til it overflows a little to prolong my not
>>> having to fill up.
>>>
>>> Guess you learn something new everyday!
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, you learn that it pays to ead your owner's manual when you get a
>> new car! :-)
>>
>> Matt
>
>
> READ?!?! You gotta be kidding! People don't read those things, or any
> other owner's manual, for that matter. If it "ain't" on TV, they know
> don't know anything about it!
>
> I'm a tech geek by nature and, fortunately, have a natural affinity for
> computers, VCR's, TV's, and other electronic gear. What I experience is
> that most folks buy that fancy new computer and never bother to learn
> what all those "thingies" on the screen are called, or how to use the
> beast. I spend 3/4 of my time helping these folks, asking them to
> describe EXACTLY what they see---NOT "you know, that thing on the left"!
>
> Still others don't know how to eliminate the flashing "12:00 AM" from
> their VCR's. And, setting up a modern TV--no way! Even though all the
> instructions are right there in the owner's manual. I know--I have to
> read some of them for the more complicated setups.
>
> VCR Plus came about to help these techno-***** program to record "The
> Simpsons". But, most don't even have a clue how to set up the VCR Plus
> stuff.
>
> Man, don't get me started about the cluelessness of consumers of today.
> I think most of them need to repeat the first grade.

Yes, I agree that we have a sad state of affairs. I always read my
owner's manual cover to cover when I get a new car. However, I also
realize that I'm on the fringe in this regard! :-)

Matt