dkortz@gisco.net

I would like to put a set of mounted snows on my '05 Elantra GT using
OEM replacement steel wheels. Will these (stock on the non-GT Elantra)
steel wheels fit the GT model without any clearance issues? Also, does
anyone have a suggestion (other than the dealer) for finding steel
wheels for the Elantra - it doesn't appear that TireRack stocks them
and I'm not familiar with any other source. I have about 32k on the
original Michelins and they would be OK for another season of summer
driving, but are not up to winter in northern NY. Thanks.

Mike Marlow

<dkortz@gisco.net> wrote in message
news:1161544660.229147.132160@m7g2000cwm.googlegro ups.com...
> I would like to put a set of mounted snows on my '05 Elantra GT using
> OEM replacement steel wheels. Will these (stock on the non-GT Elantra)
> steel wheels fit the GT model without any clearance issues? Also, does
> anyone have a suggestion (other than the dealer) for finding steel
> wheels for the Elantra - it doesn't appear that TireRack stocks them
> and I'm not familiar with any other source. I have about 32k on the
> original Michelins and they would be OK for another season of summer
> driving, but are not up to winter in northern NY. Thanks.
>

Junk yard.

I'd think twice about those tires though. Are they really that worn? I
drive All Season Radials for 60K on a regular basis, all through the
seasons, and I live north of Syracuse.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

nolife

Mike Marlow wrote:

>
> Junk yard.
>
> I'd think twice about those tires though. Are they really that worn? I
> drive All Season Radials for 60K on a regular basis, all through the
> seasons, and I live north of Syracuse.
>

What brand and model tires are you using? I've never had an all season
tire that had acceptable snow traction after 25-35k miles. It seems
that one year they are great but 15K more miles and the next winter they
completely suck.
I fully agree with the concept of dedicated snow tires and rims. IMHO,
the cost is is reasonable and you will have much better traction in the
winter. I live further south now and do not swap out but I do keep a
set of cables/chains in the trunk of my 2003 Elantra just in case. They
take about 10 minutes to install. I only use them roughly once or twice
a year but well worth the ~$25 that Wal-mart sells them for..

Mike Marlow

"nolife" <nolife@fake.inv> wrote in message
news:9pKdnXuV-LPH2aHYnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>
> >
> > Junk yard.
> >
> > I'd think twice about those tires though. Are they really that worn? I
> > drive All Season Radials for 60K on a regular basis, all through the
> > seasons, and I live north of Syracuse.
> >
>
> What brand and model tires are you using? I've never had an all season
> tire that had acceptable snow traction after 25-35k miles. It seems
> that one year they are great but 15K more miles and the next winter they
> completely suck.

Well, I've had everything from Michelin to Dunlop to PepBoys Futuras on my
vehicles. The worst I've ever owned were Generals. I'm in the snow belt
north of Syracuse and we get nearly 300" of snow a year. I've not owned a
snow tire in decades.


--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Brian Nystrom

Mike Marlow wrote:
> "nolife" <nolife@fake.inv> wrote in message
> news:9pKdnXuV-LPH2aHYnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>>> Junk yard.
>>>
>>> I'd think twice about those tires though. Are they really that worn? I
>>> drive All Season Radials for 60K on a regular basis, all through the
>>> seasons, and I live north of Syracuse.
>>>
>> What brand and model tires are you using? I've never had an all season
>> tire that had acceptable snow traction after 25-35k miles. It seems
>> that one year they are great but 15K more miles and the next winter they
>> completely suck.
>
> Well, I've had everything from Michelin to Dunlop to PepBoys Futuras on my
> vehicles. The worst I've ever owned were Generals. I'm in the snow belt
> north of Syracuse and we get nearly 300" of snow a year. I've not owned a
> snow tire in decades.

That doesn't mean that they're not a huge improvement over "all season"
crap tires, it just means that you're willing to tolerate having poor
traction and take the added risks of driving in winter on inferior
tires. The difference in snow/slush performance with dedicated winter
tires is night and day.

Brian Nystrom

dkortz@gisco.net wrote:
> I would like to put a set of mounted snows on my '05 Elantra GT using
> OEM replacement steel wheels. Will these (stock on the non-GT Elantra)
> steel wheels fit the GT model without any clearance issues?

There's no problem at all.

> Also, does
> anyone have a suggestion (other than the dealer) for finding steel
> wheels for the Elantra - it doesn't appear that TireRack stocks them
> and I'm not familiar with any other source.

I bought mine through a local tire dealer. He did have some trouble
locating them (over two years ago), but they're available. FWIW, I went
with Nokian Hakkapelitta 2 tires, size 185/65-15 and have been very
happy with them. You could also go with size 175/70-15 for a little
better bite through the deep stuff.

> I have about 32k on the
> original Michelins and they would be OK for another season of summer
> driving, but are not up to winter in northern NY.

They really suck in the winter compared to real snows, even when they're
new. I think you'll be very happy with the performance of your snow tires.

Mike Marlow

"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:Ml2%g.843$%T3.563@trndny03...

>
> That doesn't mean that they're not a huge improvement over "all season"
> crap tires, it just means that you're willing to tolerate having poor
> traction and take the added risks of driving in winter on inferior
> tires. The difference in snow/slush performance with dedicated winter
> tires is night and day.

We've had this discussion before Brian and I believe that if you want snow
tires, then by all means, put them on and enjoy. As I have stated in the
past, I drive for my business and it is not a matter of "tolerating poor
traction, and added risks". If I suffered poor traction, I would not
hesitate to employ a better solution. My point always has been, and
continues to be that with decades of experience behind me, good All Season
radials are plenty sufficient for winter driving.

I have never suffered a loss of control that a car with snow tires didn't, I
have never suffered an inability to start, stop or navigate that a car
equipped with snows didn't, and I have plowed snow with the grill of my car
with nothing more than good ASR tires. Likewise, in an area where we get a
lot of snow, the percentage of cars equipped with snow tires is
significantly less than those that successfully negotiate winter driving
conditions without them.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Brian Nystrom

Mike Marlow wrote:
> "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:Ml2%g.843$%T3.563@trndny03...
>
>> That doesn't mean that they're not a huge improvement over "all season"
>> crap tires, it just means that you're willing to tolerate having poor
>> traction and take the added risks of driving in winter on inferior
>> tires. The difference in snow/slush performance with dedicated winter
>> tires is night and day.
>
> We've had this discussion before Brian and I believe that if you want snow
> tires, then by all means, put them on and enjoy. As I have stated in the
> past, I drive for my business and it is not a matter of "tolerating poor
> traction, and added risks". If I suffered poor traction, I would not
> hesitate to employ a better solution. My point always has been, and
> continues to be that with decades of experience behind me, good All Season
> radials are plenty sufficient for winter driving.
>
> I have never suffered a loss of control that a car with snow tires didn't, I
> have never suffered an inability to start, stop or navigate that a car
> equipped with snows didn't, and I have plowed snow with the grill of my car
> with nothing more than good ASR tires. Likewise, in an area where we get a
> lot of snow, the percentage of cars equipped with snow tires is
> significantly less than those that successfully negotiate winter driving
> conditions without them.
>
Yeah, you keep saying that and I'll keep telling people that there IS a
big difference.

How would you know anyway, since you don't even use snow tires? When was
the last time you installed a set on your car? Whenever I encounter this
type of resistance, it's invariably from someone who doesn't use winter
tires.

The fact that most people get by in winter with "all season" junk on
their cars doesn't mean that they wouldn't appreciate the difference
that dedicated winter tires make. In fact, everyone I've convinced to
try real winter tires has been amazed at the difference.

The reason that they're not more popular are obvious:

- Tire manufacturers, car manufacturers and people like you push ASR
tires, so most people incorrectly assume that they're actually good for
winter conditions.

- Many people are simply too cheap to spring for them.

- Oddly enough, many of the same people will waste thousands of dollars
on unnecessary - and in some cases ill handling - AWD and 4WD vehicles
when they would be better off with FWD and a set of snow tires (lower
initial cost, lower maintenance cost, better fuel mileage, etc). Go figure.

- Many parts of the country don't get enough snow to justify separate
winter tires.

By all means, do whatever you want on your own vehicle, but don't expect
me to agree with you.

Edwin Pawlowski

"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
> The reason that they're not more popular are obvious:
>
> - Tire manufacturers, car manufacturers and people like you push ASR
> tires, so most people incorrectly assume that they're actually good for
> winter conditions.
>
> - Many people are simply too cheap to spring for them.

You forgot to add "the roads are plowed much better and faster now than they
were years ago"

While you both make good points, I've not had a situation personally where a
better tire would have made a big difference. Maybe I'm just lucky. If I
lived on a more rural road, had a 2000 foot unplowed, rut filled, dirt
driveway, then yes, I've have a better winter tire. I live on a hill and
pull out of my driveway and make a left turn up the hill. In 25 years, I've
never gotten stuck, slid, or did not make it. I did have the traction
control kick in a couple of times That 500 feet is usually the worst part
of my commute.

Years ago, it was common to drive with snow tires and even chains over them
at times. In some parts of the country, it is still needed.

>
> - Oddly enough, many of the same people will waste thousands of dollars on
> unnecessary - and in some cases ill handling - AWD and 4WD vehicles when
> they would be better off with FWD and a set of snow tires (lower initial
> cost, lower maintenance cost, better fuel mileage, etc). Go figure.

Some people should not drive if a snowflake falls no matter what tires they
have. Going to work in the snow one day, I rounded a curve and saw a car
that was being towed out from the side where the woman slid off the road.
Evidently, it was a gentle slide and no damage was done because on the way
home, there she was again, on a different stretch of road where she slid off
again. Given that thousands of cars passed that same road all day and only
one managed to slide off (twice), you just have to wonder.

Mike Marlow

"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:FV6%g.8433$iM2.3708@trndny08...

> >
> Yeah, you keep saying that and I'll keep telling people that there IS a
> big difference.
>

That's certainly your perrogative.

> How would you know anyway, since you don't even use snow tires? When was
> the last time you installed a set on your car? Whenever I encounter this
> type of resistance, it's invariably from someone who doesn't use winter
> tires.

You seem to forget our conversation from this time last year about the same
topic. I explained that my best friend uses snows on his car and I've had
plenty of first hand direct comparison.


>
> - Tire manufacturers, car manufacturers and people like you push ASR
> tires, so most people incorrectly assume that they're actually good for
> winter conditions.
>

What about the evidence from people who drive in the snow for years with no
problems using them? That's not evidence enough for you?

>
> By all means, do whatever you want on your own vehicle, but don't expect
> me to agree with you.

Hold that last line up to a mirror and read it to yourself.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Matt Whiting

Mike Marlow wrote:

> "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:Ml2%g.843$%T3.563@trndny03...
>
>
>>That doesn't mean that they're not a huge improvement over "all season"
>>crap tires, it just means that you're willing to tolerate having poor
>>traction and take the added risks of driving in winter on inferior
>>tires. The difference in snow/slush performance with dedicated winter
>>tires is night and day.
>
>
> We've had this discussion before Brian and I believe that if you want snow
> tires, then by all means, put them on and enjoy. As I have stated in the
> past, I drive for my business and it is not a matter of "tolerating poor
> traction, and added risks". If I suffered poor traction, I would not
> hesitate to employ a better solution. My point always has been, and
> continues to be that with decades of experience behind me, good All Season
> radials are plenty sufficient for winter driving.
>
> I have never suffered a loss of control that a car with snow tires didn't, I
> have never suffered an inability to start, stop or navigate that a car
> equipped with snows didn't, and I have plowed snow with the grill of my car
> with nothing more than good ASR tires. Likewise, in an area where we get a
> lot of snow, the percentage of cars equipped with snow tires is
> significantly less than those that successfully negotiate winter driving
> conditions without them.

I'm with you Mike. My Chevy truck came with Goodyear AT tires which are
essentially all season tires for a truck. I plowed snow with them and
never even had to put my chains on, although a few times I probably
should have. When they got worn they didn't work as well as is to be
expected. I replaced them with the heaviest lug M&S tires I could find
since I plow a long driveway. I expected a dramatic increase in
traction. The difference in plowing traction was nothing more than I
would have expected from simply having new tires. However the different
in noise was dramatic. I never forget that I now have REAL mud and snow
tires on as they howl like crazy!


I believe that dedicated snow tires on a car are better in some
conditions than all season tires (deep snow, slush and ice), however,
they are also worse on wet and dry pavement. Even in northern PA, we
have at least 10:1 more winter days where the roads are wet or dry than
we do with snow, slush or ice. So the question for me is: Do I want
better traction in the conditions that prevail 90% of the time or 10% of
the time? This is an easy question for me to answer. :-)


Matt

Matt Whiting

Brian Nystrom wrote:

> Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>> "nolife" <nolife@fake.inv> wrote in message
>> news:9pKdnXuV-LPH2aHYnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>
>>>> Junk yard.
>>>>
>>>> I'd think twice about those tires though. Are they really that
>>>> worn? I
>>>> drive All Season Radials for 60K on a regular basis, all through the
>>>> seasons, and I live north of Syracuse.
>>>>
>>> What brand and model tires are you using? I've never had an all season
>>> tire that had acceptable snow traction after 25-35k miles. It seems
>>> that one year they are great but 15K more miles and the next winter they
>>> completely suck.
>>
>>
>> Well, I've had everything from Michelin to Dunlop to PepBoys Futuras
>> on my
>> vehicles. The worst I've ever owned were Generals. I'm in the snow belt
>> north of Syracuse and we get nearly 300" of snow a year. I've not
>> owned a
>> snow tire in decades.
>
>
> That doesn't mean that they're not a huge improvement over "all season"
> crap tires, it just means that you're willing to tolerate having poor
> traction and take the added risks of driving in winter on inferior
> tires. The difference in snow/slush performance with dedicated winter
> tires is night and day.

Brian, I don't disagree with you here, but as I just wrote in reply to
Mike's post "I believe that dedicated snow tires on a car are better in
some conditions than all season tires (deep snow, slush and ice),
however, they are also worse on wet and dry pavement. Even in northern
PA, we have at least 10:1 more winter days where the roads are wet or
dry than we do with snow, slush or ice. So the question for me is: Do
I want better traction in the conditions that prevail 90% of the time or
10% of the time? This is an easy question for me to answer. :-)"

If I lived in an area where snow, slush and ice prevailed more than 50%
of the winter days, then I'd almost certainly buy snow tires. However,
where I live the number of days with these conditions is, at best, 10%
of my driving days. I therefore optimize for the conditions that
prevail most of the time.


Matt

']['unez

Mike, 300" of snow per year, Im assumeing you must live in the Redfield/ Tug
Hill area. I lived in the Fulton/Mexico area for more years than I care to
remember and thats the only places that get that much snow EVERY FREAKIN
YEAR !!!!!!!!!!

']['unez


"Mike Marlow" <mmarlow@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:21aef$453c9ae0$471fbb6d$32190@ALLTEL.NET...
>
> "nolife" <nolife@fake.inv> wrote in message
> news:9pKdnXuV-LPH2aHYnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Junk yard.
>> >
>> > I'd think twice about those tires though. Are they really that worn?
>> > I
>> > drive All Season Radials for 60K on a regular basis, all through the
>> > seasons, and I live north of Syracuse.
>> >
>>
>> What brand and model tires are you using? I've never had an all season
>> tire that had acceptable snow traction after 25-35k miles. It seems
>> that one year they are great but 15K more miles and the next winter they
>> completely suck.
>
> Well, I've had everything from Michelin to Dunlop to PepBoys Futuras on my
> vehicles. The worst I've ever owned were Generals. I'm in the snow belt
> north of Syracuse and we get nearly 300" of snow a year. I've not owned a
> snow tire in decades.
>
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net
>
>

nolife

Mike Marlow wrote:

> Well, I've had everything from Michelin to Dunlop to PepBoys Futuras on my
> vehicles. The worst I've ever owned were Generals. I'm in the snow belt
> north of Syracuse and we get nearly 300" of snow a year. I've not owned a
> snow tire in decades.
>
>
I got grounded on some remote roads for hours going to a skiing trip in
WV last year with my factory supplied Michelin's on my 2003 Elantra.
It was a joke, cars going by me left and right while my son and I were
attempting to push my wife up the hills and bouncing and sitting on the
hood. There was only about 2 inches of snow. Tried everything out of
desperation, riding on the edge trying to get traction from the rocks,
in the grass, clearing a path with my feet, even tried the traction
control which did not help because of the rapid changes caused too much
erratic changes causing more problems. A few times the front end would
drift too far and slide off the road but we never actually left the road
completely. We finally gave up and sat around until and a resort
employee on his way to work pulled me with a tow strap the last 3 miles
to the resort with his Samuri (4x4 with all season tires oddly enough).
Being stuck out in the middle of absolutely nowhere is not a good
feeling. I still had at least 4/32 of tread left with about 35k miles
on those tires but ruined them tires from the constant spinning (chewed
up from at least an hour of trying). The previous year I made it around
with no problems where I live but I only have small rolling hills here.
I've had one of my 5.0 Mustangs in the snow a few times for one reason
or another. It was a joke and the AS tires are just a very small part
of that problem.
Obviously your luck was much better then mine but I'll keep the chains
in my trunk from now on.

Mike Marlow

"']['unez" <tunez1@***.net> wrote in message
news:qhb%g.1962$BC6.896@fed1read01...
>
> Mike, 300" of snow per year, Im assumeing you must live in the Redfield/
Tug
> Hill area. I lived in the Fulton/Mexico area for more years than I care to
> remember and thats the only places that get that much snow EVERY FREAKIN
> YEAR !!!!!!!!!!
>

The edge of it. Hastings/Parish. I generalize about the area in posts like
this because it does represent the typical driving conditions we encounter
during the winter. I probably receive somewhat less snow than Redfield in
any given storm, but we are not that far off seasonally. I spend alot of
time on the road within the Tug Hill area though. The entire Hill averages
closer to 300" than 200" most years. The last few sure have not been that
heavy though. I know that we do get a lot more than Fulton gets in any
given snowfall. It's funny how it goes (as you probably know) - it's like
there is a wall where all of a sudden the snow starts and it's like you
entered another zone on the planet.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net