drama07

heyy, new here and my first post is needing advice for an amber light ticket

So, haven't gotten the court date yet. Expected in couple of months. I need advice on how I should fight the ticket. Amber light ticket carried a fine of 180 & 3 points. Is it easy to fight it because this is my first time fighting a ticket. Do police have notes? Any advice would be grateful thank you

gullyfourmyle

Amber light means stop unless it's unsafe to do so, then proceed with caution.

Generally, the cop will show up for this as it's an easy conviction.

You'd better have a good story.

My very first ticket was for this exact offence.

I've beaten every ticket I've ever remembered to show up in court for but not this one.

Back then it was no points and a 22.80 fine.

pimpinphilosophy

ask the officer these questions. How many tickets after mine have you given... then ask do you have a photograpic memory... your honour clearly the office is going off from what he "remebers" and quite frankly couldnt tell you from right or left (however many months ago) then tell your story

TrepNick

lol

ticketcombat

Request disclosure. You'll see what notes the cop made. The issues are whether you could stop safely (the cop has to prove it) and whether you accelerated or slowed down as you went through the intersection. You are supposed to "proceed with caution" which means slowing down, not speeding up.

drama07

well I think I been screwed... just found out cameras were installed high up on each side of the intersection where the police presumes I ran a amber light when in fact I felt it was safe to proceed cautiously. But I doubt my assumption will work with the judge.

Damn Rookie cop took advantage and used a intersection with cameras so he'll have video proof.

Should I accept the low charges if the prosecutor decides to offer me before the trial?

The only thing I'm worried about is my insurance because this is my second minor offence. Paying 180$ isnt so a big deal if my points are removed so that the insurance company doesnt see them.

pimpinphilosophy

your insurance company doesnt care about points.. The ticket will show on renewal if they decide to run your license again.. in most cases they dont but you never know.

ticketcombat

First, Toronto has 10 red light cameras rotating in 38 intersections (they take photos, not video). There's no guarantee that there was one in the box when you were there. It also wouldn't have snapped a photo on a yellow light, only when you are before the intersection and the light is red. So no evidence there.

Second, insurance companies can count the number of convictions, demerit points or both. It depends on the company.

Finally, never accept a lower charge until you see the evidence against you. If they don't have a case, why would you plead guilty to anything? You get the evidence under disclosure.

darkdrgn2k

Lets take it from the top

#1: Red light cameras and Cop pulling you over are NOT the same thing. Red lite cameras do NOT affect your insurance cause there is no way to figure out WHO DONE IT

#2 IF you got a ticket for passing an amber or red light... well like most traffic cases there is no easy way out. Jps have heard it all, you cannot make up a good story, you cannot weasle your way out.. you really have 2 options

1-Plead it down
2-Get a paralegal and hope he can win the battle.

Depending where it the matter is going to trial, how long it will take etc you may have some more options..

Here is what you do

1) Make sure u file the ticket! that gives you a good few motnsh to decide what to do.
2) Get a paralegal, talk to him,dont have to hier him but taslk to them. Find one in your neck of the woods. PPL like xcpr dont work individual courts, so they actualy relay on the knowledge of paralegas at thouse courts to work the ticket, but guess what.. they might not know who it is until days before the trial, that doesnt help you

You can find a local paralegal at » Traffic Ticket Defence Directory « Fight Speeding Tickets and Fight Traffic Tickets | www.Im In Trouble.ca. They have there seperated by court. If for whatever reason they dont have one in the court house you want, e-mail them (use the form on the court page to submit a request).

3) Get Disclosure Ordered, whether the paralegal does it, or you do it, see what they have against you!!!

It sux, but its the age old form of taxation..... they want their money, problem is you end up paying the interest via the insurance company!

ticketcombat

Ok I'll take it from the top too.

#1. drama07 thought he was screwed because he thought the cop would use the red light camera evidence against him and I said no, he can't. I know it's not the same thing as being pulled over.

#2 red light tickets are hard to fight but not impossible. Yellow light tickets have a much larger grey area and yes, you can get off on technicalities or strong arugments. The basic arguments center around strict liability defences, point of view arguments and case law.

I don't have enough posts yet to provide links but here are some case citations from Canlii:

• R. v. Kanda, 2008 ONCA 22 (CanLII) [strict liability defaults in the Highway Traffic Act]
• R. v. Locke, 2007 CanLII 61 (NL P.C.) [witness testimony and burden of proof]

#3 before considering pleading to a lesser charge, get disclosure and remember, Toronto has a very low cop attendance rate in court (see: John Duncanson and Phinjo Gombu, Toronto Star, Oct 29, 2005, p A.04.)

But darkdrgn2k is right, that a paralegal may be beneficial if you don't feel comfortable arguing in court. Otherwise you can check me out by googling my name or adding ".com" to it to learn how to fight your ticket on your own.

drama07

Hey respect for all the help but... you guys got it all wrong about the camera thing.

It ain't those red light cameras that have a sign warning you before hand about a camera taking pictures if you go through the intersection when the lights are red.

These cameras are your usual surveillance cameras they use for security in buildings and such. Head over to mcCowan and Hwy 7 intersection and you'll see what I mean. These are security cameras on each side of the intersection, high above where an unsuspecting amber or red light runner would miss noticing. I found out there were cameras a month after the ticket due to the fact I never look up that high while driving.

I'm not sure if the officier will use that as proof but it's possible. Of course I can ask for the disclosure and if that proof is there I might as well accept the lesser charge since I myself sort of forgot how I ran the amber light. I could lie but the video might as well convict me in 2 seconds.

darkdrgn2k

Umm just wanted to point out that cops are PAID to go to court..... and mroe often then not they do show up now.. but then again it depends on the court.... and such..