My car is uninsurable!!!
03-10-2005, 07:19 PM
#1
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My car is uninsurable!!!
I called my insurance company (Bel-Air Direct) today to ask them about their way of handling modified cars. I didn't want to tell the guy who I was, but he wouldn't say anything unless I gave him my policy number. So I did 
Anyways, the guy basically said that they will not insure any car which has been modified with parts that enhance performance of the vehicle. They're reasoning is that when they rate a car and calculate a premium, it is done with the car in the condition that it would had it just left the factory (100% stock). This is understandable because they want to keep all the factory engineered parts on the car because they are obviously engineered to work perfectly with the car.
My next question was this: "Say my car has 350,000kms on it and has all original suspension components on it. You guys would rather insure that car then an identical car with brand new upgraded brakes, and brand new struts and springs, even though the upgraded parts will greatly increase the cars capability to avoid an accident?" His answer was "Yes. The original parts are engineered specifically for that car... how are we supposed to know that the parts you installed are an adequate replacement for the original parts?" Then I said "All aftermarket parts are designed and engineered by their manufacturers to fit and perform just as good, if not better, then the original factory designed parts. Being an engineering student, I know if something is properly designed or not. I wouldn't want to risk my own safety by installing parts that wouldn't work properly. Not only would I risk losing a signicant amount of money in the case of an accident, but I could also lose my life." Then he said that they still have no way of knowing if the car were fit for the road or not. I told the guy that I would be more then happy to take my car to get an Ontario Safety Inspection done after I had completed the modifications, but he said "That wouldn't prove anything." What the ?! I said "You're saying that a signed safety standards certificate from a licensed mechanic does not prove that the car is in mechanically fit shape?" Then he gave me some stupid reason that did not make any sense... Then I asked him what he thinks I should do and his response was "Don't modify it." Thanks tips. So then I asked what he thinks all these guys/gals with BRAND NEW 350Z, RSXs, WRXs, etc that are modified do? Why are they able to have insurance on their modified car? There's no way someone would drive those cars without notifing their insurance company that they've modified their car. And there is no way they would drive without insurance... so their insurance company must have worked something out with them? He said "I think they drive without telling their insurance company." Yeah okay buddy. Then he started telling me about how there are more modified cars involved in accidents then normal cars. I told him that I've never actually seen a modified car in an accident, but every accident I've seen was an older person driving a basic unmodified car. I guess this training manual is full of bullshit.
Thats the basic point of the conversation. There is NO negotiating with these guys whatsoever. I was more then willing to work out some way to prove to them that my car will be properly modified, but they don't care. It sucks for them because they're going to lose a good customer because of it. I don't drive like a head on the street, so I believe I am no more of a risk in a modified car then I am in a 100% stock car.
What do you think I should do? Should I go ahead and order $1500 coilovers and install them without telling the insurance company? Or should I find another, hopefully more open-minded insurance company? Does an insurance company like that even exist?
Anyways, the guy basically said that they will not insure any car which has been modified with parts that enhance performance of the vehicle. They're reasoning is that when they rate a car and calculate a premium, it is done with the car in the condition that it would had it just left the factory (100% stock). This is understandable because they want to keep all the factory engineered parts on the car because they are obviously engineered to work perfectly with the car.
My next question was this: "Say my car has 350,000kms on it and has all original suspension components on it. You guys would rather insure that car then an identical car with brand new upgraded brakes, and brand new struts and springs, even though the upgraded parts will greatly increase the cars capability to avoid an accident?" His answer was "Yes. The original parts are engineered specifically for that car... how are we supposed to know that the parts you installed are an adequate replacement for the original parts?" Then I said "All aftermarket parts are designed and engineered by their manufacturers to fit and perform just as good, if not better, then the original factory designed parts. Being an engineering student, I know if something is properly designed or not. I wouldn't want to risk my own safety by installing parts that wouldn't work properly. Not only would I risk losing a signicant amount of money in the case of an accident, but I could also lose my life." Then he said that they still have no way of knowing if the car were fit for the road or not. I told the guy that I would be more then happy to take my car to get an Ontario Safety Inspection done after I had completed the modifications, but he said "That wouldn't prove anything." What the ?! I said "You're saying that a signed safety standards certificate from a licensed mechanic does not prove that the car is in mechanically fit shape?" Then he gave me some stupid reason that did not make any sense... Then I asked him what he thinks I should do and his response was "Don't modify it." Thanks tips. So then I asked what he thinks all these guys/gals with BRAND NEW 350Z, RSXs, WRXs, etc that are modified do? Why are they able to have insurance on their modified car? There's no way someone would drive those cars without notifing their insurance company that they've modified their car. And there is no way they would drive without insurance... so their insurance company must have worked something out with them? He said "I think they drive without telling their insurance company." Yeah okay buddy. Then he started telling me about how there are more modified cars involved in accidents then normal cars. I told him that I've never actually seen a modified car in an accident, but every accident I've seen was an older person driving a basic unmodified car. I guess this training manual is full of bullshit.
Thats the basic point of the conversation. There is NO negotiating with these guys whatsoever. I was more then willing to work out some way to prove to them that my car will be properly modified, but they don't care. It sucks for them because they're going to lose a good customer because of it. I don't drive like a head on the street, so I believe I am no more of a risk in a modified car then I am in a 100% stock car.
What do you think I should do? Should I go ahead and order $1500 coilovers and install them without telling the insurance company? Or should I find another, hopefully more open-minded insurance company? Does an insurance company like that even exist?
03-10-2005, 07:57 PM
#2
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What?! An insurance company won't negotiate with a young driver on a modified car?! INCONCEIVABLE.
Here's my suggestion, take it or not.. it's basically what I'm doing now. Lie as much as you possibly can on your insurance application to get your rate as low as possible. Pleasure vehicle, less than 5000 km's a year, etc. Mod it however you want and hope you don't ever have to make a claim.
It's kind of worrisome to know you're paying hundreds of dollars a month for a company that would drop you in an instant if they knew what you've done to your car, but on the other hand I don't really want anybody telling me what I can and can't do to my car.
Oh, and to answer your final question: No.
Here's my suggestion, take it or not.. it's basically what I'm doing now. Lie as much as you possibly can on your insurance application to get your rate as low as possible. Pleasure vehicle, less than 5000 km's a year, etc. Mod it however you want and hope you don't ever have to make a claim.
It's kind of worrisome to know you're paying hundreds of dollars a month for a company that would drop you in an instant if they knew what you've done to your car, but on the other hand I don't really want anybody telling me what I can and can't do to my car.
Oh, and to answer your final question: No.
03-10-2005, 08:23 PM
#3
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and how the insurance company knows that you have installed your coilovers? send you to the mechanic? but you already asked them to send you tothe mechanic but they refused it. They just ed up. show them a middle finger.
03-10-2005, 08:44 PM
#4
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hey man insurance companies will do everything for money i mean look at me im gettin 7000/yr quotes with no accidents tickets or nething on a stock car
but there isnt nehting you can do
i fully agree with midnighter... get the basic required insurance drive safe and pray to god nothing happens
but in a way thats a good thing cause we will have more people with modifyed cars that may race occasionally but regularly drive conservatively and therefore safer roads
but nothing can save you from that stupid asian lady on a cellphone in a van that just suddenly cuts into ur lane
but there isnt nehting you can do
i fully agree with midnighter... get the basic required insurance drive safe and pray to god nothing happens
but in a way thats a good thing cause we will have more people with modifyed cars that may race occasionally but regularly drive conservatively and therefore safer roads
but nothing can save you from that stupid asian lady on a cellphone in a van that just suddenly cuts into ur lane
03-10-2005, 08:56 PM
#5
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I'm not going to lie to them... I might as well drive without insurance (I still have valid slips for when I get pulled over). With my luck, they'd deny my coverage if I got into an accident. That's just what I need... to kill someone and lose a legal battle, forcing me into debt for the rest of my life.
Reading the Legal Help section of this site has gotten me all paranoid!
Reading the Legal Help section of this site has gotten me all paranoid!
03-10-2005, 09:01 PM
#6
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Fred...i respect what you did man..that's really cool of you, but you know better than to try and negotiate with those tards. All that matters to them is the 99.99% percentile of pathetic s on the road that just use their cars for commuting, and would never even think to take it over 120kmph.
My co worker has family from ireland..now..listen to this..
-He went back there in may of 2002 to see his family and , he went there, and noticed that his uncle had some car, i think he said a Fiat Zagato or something..doesnt matter..all i remember was him saying that he had swapped a 4 cylinder engine into it, just so the insurance would be less, can you imagine that? He took the stock engine, and stuck in some 4 cyl piece of that makes like 60 horsepower on a -50 celsius day..
Also..and this was the kicker..
A friend of the family of his, he got into an accident with the car..they said it "looked fast", so what did they do..NO JOKE, the insurance company got a mechanic to take the head off, measure everything just to make sure the engine wasnt bored out or stroked!
WTF IS THAT ?!?
I mean, i knew Canada was bad when it came to this , but you should see how much worse some other countries have it..
My advice. Mod your car. And if they say something, the worst thing that can happen is that your insurance gets cancelled. Who cares? As long as you dont drive like Roman for example, you wont smash your car and you wont face any bullshit charges they throw at you.
My co worker has family from ireland..now..listen to this..
-He went back there in may of 2002 to see his family and , he went there, and noticed that his uncle had some car, i think he said a Fiat Zagato or something..doesnt matter..all i remember was him saying that he had swapped a 4 cylinder engine into it, just so the insurance would be less, can you imagine that? He took the stock engine, and stuck in some 4 cyl piece of that makes like 60 horsepower on a -50 celsius day..
Also..and this was the kicker..
A friend of the family of his, he got into an accident with the car..they said it "looked fast", so what did they do..NO JOKE, the insurance company got a mechanic to take the head off, measure everything just to make sure the engine wasnt bored out or stroked!
WTF IS THAT ?!?
I mean, i knew Canada was bad when it came to this , but you should see how much worse some other countries have it..
My advice. Mod your car. And if they say something, the worst thing that can happen is that your insurance gets cancelled. Who cares? As long as you dont drive like Roman for example, you wont smash your car and you wont face any bullshit charges they throw at you.
03-10-2005, 09:24 PM
#7
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Just know your drive route during rush hour where cops aren't present. I drive from home to my school everyday and there is no cops on the way. (I saw one in six month) I could simply drive in Formula 1 bollid or Rally car with out insurance and licence plates and big flag with ' DA POLICE" and probalby never will be pulled over. Just know where you drive.
03-10-2005, 10:48 PM
#8
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I am in the same boat Fred, except I am with STATEFARM.
My brother recently had his insurance cancelled with them (2 at fault accidents and 3 speeding tickets over the course of 5-6 years). My family's insurance is all with Statefarm and it is an umbrella policy (meaning everyone is insured on every vehicle) so Statefarm threatened to cancell everybody's insurance if my brother remains living at home.
Needless to say, they think my car is STOCK. So one claim and my insurance is cancelled. So tell me, why am I paying $5800/year when I am not even covered anyways? It is complete bullshit, the government NEEDS to do something about this.
My brother recently had his insurance cancelled with them (2 at fault accidents and 3 speeding tickets over the course of 5-6 years). My family's insurance is all with Statefarm and it is an umbrella policy (meaning everyone is insured on every vehicle) so Statefarm threatened to cancell everybody's insurance if my brother remains living at home.
Needless to say, they think my car is STOCK. So one claim and my insurance is cancelled. So tell me, why am I paying $5800/year when I am not even covered anyways? It is complete bullshit, the government NEEDS to do something about this.
03-10-2005, 11:13 PM
#9
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Originally Posted by Young gun
hey man insurance companies will do everything for money i mean look at me im gettin 7000/yr quotes with no accidents tickets or nething on a stock car
but there isnt nehting you can do
but there isnt nehting you can do
Originally Posted by B6T
"All aftermarket parts are designed and engineered by their manufacturers to fit and perform just as good, if not better, then the original factory designed parts. Being an engineering student, I know if something is properly designed or not
And trying to stick up for yourself by saying you're an engineering student isn't going to help you one bit. He'll think you're a cocky kid and won't try to do anything for you.
03-10-2005, 11:14 PM
#10
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! I Know How You Feel. ing ING Insurance Is The WORST! They Tell Me If I Get Into An Accident And ITs Not My fault my car gets paid for..then i get into an accident..an they tell me to myself cuz its not in my policy and they deem me at fault cuz i had a ing civic! Ye so what my car has cosmetics thats it! i was doind the speed limit! 60km/hour..lost controll on ice..got it back..sumone bumped me from behind..took off..send me spinning into oncoming traffic..an sum stupid ing newfie smoked my car n destroyed it! Cops deemed it no fault..insurance deemed it mine so they dont have to pay..so what i learned..Is sue their ing asses! Find out next week if i go to court or they settle..n if it goes to court.. * Hello judge..heres the police report..* n to insurance * thanks for my 10 000$ when u coulda paid 5 for my car..********!*
03-10-2005, 11:22 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by 97_Tegra
! I Know How You Feel. ing ING Insurance Is The WORST! They Tell Me If I Get Into An Accident And ITs Not My fault my car gets paid for..then i get into an accident..an they tell me to myself cuz its not in my policy and they deem me at fault cuz i had a ing civic! Ye so what my car has cosmetics thats it! i was doind the speed limit! 60km/hour..lost controll on ice..got it back..sumone bumped me from behind..took off..send me spinning into oncoming traffic..an sum stupid ing newfie smoked my car n destroyed it! Cops deemed it no fault..insurance deemed it mine so they dont have to pay..so what i learned..Is sue their ing asses! Find out next week if i go to court or they settle..n if it goes to court.. * Hello judge..heres the police report..* n to insurance * thanks for my 10 000$ when u coulda paid 5 for my car..********!*
Two, insurance companies can afford better lawyers and more legal rounds than you. I wouldn't be expecting too much out of the experience.
03-10-2005, 11:22 PM
#12
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lets all think about this, what would your car be worth to them? no offence but like $1000, if its the car we know you by? so even if they would insure it, definately they would not cover your mods even if you if you tell them so my advise would be take minimum coverage. don't tell them , if they cancell you for some reason wich i don't think they will , get another insurance company...simple
03-10-2005, 11:25 PM
#13
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So if insurance companies won't insure even cheesy little civics with coilovers and an exhaust, who the hell is insuring those decked out show car deals with the pearl paint and the $3000 volks? Hell whose insuring those middle of the road done up cars....
03-10-2005, 11:26 PM
#14
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I've Got Co-Operaters On My Side
A Good Lawyer, 2 Witnesses, And A Ton Of PaperWork Insurance Has...Nothing...They Can Say I was Speeding..But If The Cop Says I Wasnt..I Wasnt..I was following traffic..n slowing down. Cuz The one section was ice..Insurance company doesnt have a single witness..or anything to fight me with..not that worried...
A Good Lawyer, 2 Witnesses, And A Ton Of PaperWork Insurance Has...Nothing...They Can Say I was Speeding..But If The Cop Says I Wasnt..I Wasnt..I was following traffic..n slowing down. Cuz The one section was ice..Insurance company doesnt have a single witness..or anything to fight me with..not that worried...
03-10-2005, 11:29 PM
#15
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Considering you lost controll of a FRONT WHEEL DRIVE CAR, you were clearly driving to fast for the road conditions, so it is your fault. End of story. Now stay on topic.