My car is uninsurable!!!
03-11-2005, 12:28 AM
#31
Beaner, The One And Only
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This poor guy doesn't get it 
03-11-2005, 12:31 AM
#32
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Originally Posted by 1cam8valves
This poor guy doesn't get it
Maybe he hit his head in the collision...
03-11-2005, 12:34 AM
#33
Beaner, The One And Only
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Originally Posted by B6T
I called my insurance company (Bel-Air Direct) today to ask them about their way of handling modified cars. I didn't want to tell the guy who I was, but he wouldn't say anything unless I gave him my policy number. So I did 
Anyways, the guy basically said that they will not insure any car which has been modified with parts that enhance performance of the vehicle. They're reasoning is that when they rate a car and calculate a premium, it is done with the car in the condition that it would had it just left the factory (100% stock). This is understandable because they want to keep all the factory engineered parts on the car because they are obviously engineered to work perfectly with the car.
My next question was this: "Say my car has 350,000kms on it and has all original suspension components on it. You guys would rather insure that car then an identical car with brand new upgraded brakes, and brand new struts and springs, even though the upgraded parts will greatly increase the cars capability to avoid an accident?" His answer was "Yes. The original parts are engineered specifically for that car... how are we supposed to know that the parts you installed are an adequate replacement for the original parts?" Then I said "All aftermarket parts are designed and engineered by their manufacturers to fit and perform just as good, if not better, then the original factory designed parts. Being an engineering student, I know if something is properly designed or not. I wouldn't want to risk my own safety by installing parts that wouldn't work properly. Not only would I risk losing a signicant amount of money in the case of an accident, but I could also lose my life." Then he said that they still have no way of knowing if the car were fit for the road or not. I told the guy that I would be more then happy to take my car to get an Ontario Safety Inspection done after I had completed the modifications, but he said "That wouldn't prove anything." What the ?! I said "You're saying that a signed safety standards certificate from a licensed mechanic does not prove that the car is in mechanically fit shape?" Then he gave me some stupid reason that did not make any sense... Then I asked him what he thinks I should do and his response was "Don't modify it." Thanks tips. So then I asked what he thinks all these guys/gals with BRAND NEW 350Z, RSXs, WRXs, etc that are modified do? Why are they able to have insurance on their modified car? There's no way someone would drive those cars without notifing their insurance company that they've modified their car. And there is no way they would drive without insurance... so their insurance company must have worked something out with them? He said "I think they drive without telling their insurance company." Yeah okay buddy. Then he started telling me about how there are more modified cars involved in accidents then normal cars. I told him that I've never actually seen a modified car in an accident, but every accident I've seen was an older person driving a basic unmodified car. I guess this training manual is full of bullshit.
Thats the basic point of the conversation. There is NO negotiating with these guys whatsoever. I was more then willing to work out some way to prove to them that my car will be properly modified, but they don't care. It sucks for them because they're going to lose a good customer because of it. I don't drive like a head on the street, so I believe I am no more of a risk in a modified car then I am in a 100% stock car.
What do you think I should do? Should I go ahead and order $1500 coilovers and install them without telling the insurance company? Or should I find another, hopefully more open-minded insurance company? Does an insurance company like that even exist?
Anyways, the guy basically said that they will not insure any car which has been modified with parts that enhance performance of the vehicle. They're reasoning is that when they rate a car and calculate a premium, it is done with the car in the condition that it would had it just left the factory (100% stock). This is understandable because they want to keep all the factory engineered parts on the car because they are obviously engineered to work perfectly with the car.
My next question was this: "Say my car has 350,000kms on it and has all original suspension components on it. You guys would rather insure that car then an identical car with brand new upgraded brakes, and brand new struts and springs, even though the upgraded parts will greatly increase the cars capability to avoid an accident?" His answer was "Yes. The original parts are engineered specifically for that car... how are we supposed to know that the parts you installed are an adequate replacement for the original parts?" Then I said "All aftermarket parts are designed and engineered by their manufacturers to fit and perform just as good, if not better, then the original factory designed parts. Being an engineering student, I know if something is properly designed or not. I wouldn't want to risk my own safety by installing parts that wouldn't work properly. Not only would I risk losing a signicant amount of money in the case of an accident, but I could also lose my life." Then he said that they still have no way of knowing if the car were fit for the road or not. I told the guy that I would be more then happy to take my car to get an Ontario Safety Inspection done after I had completed the modifications, but he said "That wouldn't prove anything." What the ?! I said "You're saying that a signed safety standards certificate from a licensed mechanic does not prove that the car is in mechanically fit shape?" Then he gave me some stupid reason that did not make any sense... Then I asked him what he thinks I should do and his response was "Don't modify it." Thanks tips. So then I asked what he thinks all these guys/gals with BRAND NEW 350Z, RSXs, WRXs, etc that are modified do? Why are they able to have insurance on their modified car? There's no way someone would drive those cars without notifing their insurance company that they've modified their car. And there is no way they would drive without insurance... so their insurance company must have worked something out with them? He said "I think they drive without telling their insurance company." Yeah okay buddy. Then he started telling me about how there are more modified cars involved in accidents then normal cars. I told him that I've never actually seen a modified car in an accident, but every accident I've seen was an older person driving a basic unmodified car. I guess this training manual is full of bullshit.
Thats the basic point of the conversation. There is NO negotiating with these guys whatsoever. I was more then willing to work out some way to prove to them that my car will be properly modified, but they don't care. It sucks for them because they're going to lose a good customer because of it. I don't drive like a head on the street, so I believe I am no more of a risk in a modified car then I am in a 100% stock car.
What do you think I should do? Should I go ahead and order $1500 coilovers and install them without telling the insurance company? Or should I find another, hopefully more open-minded insurance company? Does an insurance company like that even exist?
03-11-2005, 01:35 AM
#34
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i say do it...i am switching to this new company and they kick ***....called KINGSWAY INSURANCE there main office is in misasauga somewhere
03-11-2005, 02:14 AM
#35
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Originally Posted by Zlatko
Fred...i respect what you did man..that's really cool of you, but you know better than to try and negotiate with those tards. All that matters to them is the 99.99% percentile of pathetic s on the road that just use their cars for commuting, and would never even think to take it over 120kmph.
My co worker has family from ireland..now..listen to this..
-He went back there in may of 2002 to see his family and , he went there, and noticed that his uncle had some car, i think he said a Fiat Zagato or something..doesnt matter..all i remember was him saying that he had swapped a 4 cylinder engine into it, just so the insurance would be less, can you imagine that? He took the stock engine, and stuck in some 4 cyl piece of that makes like 60 horsepower on a -50 celsius day..
Also..and this was the kicker..
A friend of the family of his, he got into an accident with the car..they said it "looked fast", so what did they do..NO JOKE, the insurance company got a mechanic to take the head off, measure everything just to make sure the engine wasnt bored out or stroked!
WTF IS THAT ?!?
I mean, i knew Canada was bad when it came to this , but you should see how much worse some other countries have it..
My advice. Mod your car. And if they say something, the worst thing that can happen is that your insurance gets cancelled. Who cares? As long as you dont drive like Roman for example, you wont smash your car and you wont face any bullshit charges they throw at you.
My co worker has family from ireland..now..listen to this..
-He went back there in may of 2002 to see his family and , he went there, and noticed that his uncle had some car, i think he said a Fiat Zagato or something..doesnt matter..all i remember was him saying that he had swapped a 4 cylinder engine into it, just so the insurance would be less, can you imagine that? He took the stock engine, and stuck in some 4 cyl piece of that makes like 60 horsepower on a -50 celsius day..
Also..and this was the kicker..
A friend of the family of his, he got into an accident with the car..they said it "looked fast", so what did they do..NO JOKE, the insurance company got a mechanic to take the head off, measure everything just to make sure the engine wasnt bored out or stroked!
WTF IS THAT ?!?
I mean, i knew Canada was bad when it came to this , but you should see how much worse some other countries have it..
My advice. Mod your car. And if they say something, the worst thing that can happen is that your insurance gets cancelled. Who cares? As long as you dont drive like Roman for example, you wont smash your car and you wont face any bullshit charges they throw at you.
In europe the insurance works different its all on then metric size of your engine, my uncle was thinking of doing the same buy a 4wd something with a v6 and swap in a 2.L inline 4 and then turbo it.
insurance is different everywhere.
my question is:
Ok so i have an exhaust and but whats the deal with a role cage its a safety item for my car what would they say ot that if i put it in?
03-11-2005, 02:42 AM
#36
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insurance is such a rape it should be made illegal
i was reading an article in the toronto sun a few weeks ago, maybe i still have it, and it described how insurance rates in southern ontario are still skyrocketing. insurance companies say they are barely scrapping by, but they used ING as one example...
since 2001, ING's profit increased, and this is no typo, and im quoting here, "%600 since 2001"
insurance companies are making away like bandits, raping and piliging everywhere. article described how many peoples insurance renewels that recently arrived, after ANOTHER year of clean driving experiance, and a car ANOTHER YEAR older, for NO REASON went up as much as 10%...
my gf got her renewel few months ago... skyrocketed, FOR NOTHING. nothing on her record to merit this, just a shitbox that gets her to school, and could buy two more with what she pays in insurance yearly. company said its due to a change in demographic and new revisal of her area's statistics and yada yada yada...
liability should be much cheaper then it is now, and the full comprehensive plans should actually cover peoples cars, not "sorry sir, if you read our clause, we cannot restitute you for your loss due to accidents that occured on thursdays, or days when you missed breakfast, or if you had less then a quarter tank of gas at the time of the accident, or if your vehicle was on a 400 series highway during noon and 1pm..."
insurance companies, what are they good for? my fathers freind was in an accident, no fault of his own, serious neck injuries, cannot work, cant sleep, constant pain. the insurance company of the guy responsible for his accident should hand money over to cover his loss, thats why its there right. "im sorry for you loss sir, we can offer you a $30,000 settlement if you would like, despite the fact you will no longer work again in your life, and not be able to support your family to even a marginal extent like you did before"
and if you refuse, and need something to support you for the rest of your life because youre confined to your home due to physical limitations like in the case of my fathers freind, you fight it out in the courts for YEARS, sometimes over a decade... they want to sweat you out, put you out on the street, and have you break for this meager settlement
what kind of justice is this? this cannot be legal by any means
bah end rant
i was reading an article in the toronto sun a few weeks ago, maybe i still have it, and it described how insurance rates in southern ontario are still skyrocketing. insurance companies say they are barely scrapping by, but they used ING as one example...
since 2001, ING's profit increased, and this is no typo, and im quoting here, "%600 since 2001"
insurance companies are making away like bandits, raping and piliging everywhere. article described how many peoples insurance renewels that recently arrived, after ANOTHER year of clean driving experiance, and a car ANOTHER YEAR older, for NO REASON went up as much as 10%...
my gf got her renewel few months ago... skyrocketed, FOR NOTHING. nothing on her record to merit this, just a shitbox that gets her to school, and could buy two more with what she pays in insurance yearly. company said its due to a change in demographic and new revisal of her area's statistics and yada yada yada...
liability should be much cheaper then it is now, and the full comprehensive plans should actually cover peoples cars, not "sorry sir, if you read our clause, we cannot restitute you for your loss due to accidents that occured on thursdays, or days when you missed breakfast, or if you had less then a quarter tank of gas at the time of the accident, or if your vehicle was on a 400 series highway during noon and 1pm..."
insurance companies, what are they good for? my fathers freind was in an accident, no fault of his own, serious neck injuries, cannot work, cant sleep, constant pain. the insurance company of the guy responsible for his accident should hand money over to cover his loss, thats why its there right. "im sorry for you loss sir, we can offer you a $30,000 settlement if you would like, despite the fact you will no longer work again in your life, and not be able to support your family to even a marginal extent like you did before"
and if you refuse, and need something to support you for the rest of your life because youre confined to your home due to physical limitations like in the case of my fathers freind, you fight it out in the courts for YEARS, sometimes over a decade... they want to sweat you out, put you out on the street, and have you break for this meager settlement
what kind of justice is this? this cannot be legal by any means
bah end rant
03-11-2005, 05:42 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by yourmama
Yeah, sure. And while you're fighting until they lose 5 to 10 G in court costs, you too are spending your money on lawyer and court costs. Good one. You should have saved your money and bought another car with it.
Also, your insurance policy covers you for medical treatement and loss of income if need be, whether or not you have collision on your car. You can't sue for more unless you're hurt real bad. A little soreness, stiff back or neck, doesn't cut it, especially given that you put yourself in a position to be hit by spinning out in the first place.
You didn't have collision on your car. Accident was precipitated by your driving too fast for conditions. You're owed nothing for your car whether or not you have witnesses.
Also, your insurance policy covers you for medical treatement and loss of income if need be, whether or not you have collision on your car. You can't sue for more unless you're hurt real bad. A little soreness, stiff back or neck, doesn't cut it, especially given that you put yourself in a position to be hit by spinning out in the first place.
You didn't have collision on your car. Accident was precipitated by your driving too fast for conditions. You're owed nothing for your car whether or not you have witnesses.
they owe me for my car...Like I said..We'll See When The Time Comes..But I will Continue To fight it..Nd I Will Try N Win This Case. Your Saying I Intentionally Lost controll n crashed..I think your an idiot when you say that. No one puts themselves in a position to get hit..hope one day u understand that.
03-11-2005, 05:47 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by 97_Tegra
WE'll See About That. Ye They Decide Eh..Considering I wasnt speeding Or Driving to fast..thats not good enough sorry. And Considering..they decided to ask me for 950$ for a months insurance.. they owe me for my car...Like I said..We'll See When The Time Comes..But I will Continue To fight it..Nd I Will Try N Win This Case. Your Saying I Intentionally Lost controll n crashed..I think your an idiot when you say that. No one puts themselves in a position to get hit..hope one day u understand that.
they owe me for my car...Like I said..We'll See When The Time Comes..But I will Continue To fight it..Nd I Will Try N Win This Case. Your Saying I Intentionally Lost controll n crashed..I think your an idiot when you say that. No one puts themselves in a position to get hit..hope one day u understand that.If you weren't driving too fast for conditions, then why did you lose control and spin out?
Just because you didn't "intentionally" lose control doesn't mean that your driving wasn't responsible for your loss of control and subsequent collision.
Come to think of it, how many people do "intentionally" lose control of their cars so they can have a collision?
Fact is that many people put themselves in a position to have a collision by failing to adjust their driving to road, weather, and traffic conditions. They don't "intend" to have a collision, but their faulty driving decisions and failure to adjust to conditions make a collision much more likely.
Now, you notice in all this I didn't use the word "accident"? That's because most collisions are not an accident; they are a predictable outcome of a deliberate but mistaken driving decision.
Also, you want to know why your demographic pays so much for insurance, and why that group has 6 times the per-driven-mile collision rate of most other drivers? Listen to this moron's quote from the kill story section.
On highway 7...Booked It thru side streets..was doin 150in a 50 zone...cop got me on radar n pulled out...backroads are fun..this was in the boonies at night..so turning off my lights worked
http://www.torontostreetracing.com/o...2&postcount=60
http://www.torontostreetracing.com/o...2&postcount=60
Last edited by yourmama; 03-11-2005 at 06:10 PM.
03-11-2005, 05:59 PM
#39
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Yeah, insurance companies are getting so strict with insurance.. its almost like one day your gonna have to be dead to be able to get insurance, that way they know you won't get into an accident.. A few years ago, only 2 out of all the insurance companies wouold take me on as a client. its :supergay: and now with mod cars and crap, they don;t want the the risk
03-11-2005, 06:11 PM
#40
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Im not even going to bother argueing..your set on it..I hope someday you total your car..maybe then you'll realize its not always driver error.
03-11-2005, 06:31 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by 97_Tegra
Im not even going to bother argueing..your set on it..I hope someday you total your car..maybe then you'll realize its not always driver error.
You still haven't answered.
If you weren't driving too fast for conditions, then why did you spin out?
03-11-2005, 06:32 PM
#42
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I Slid On Ice!! Then When I Saved My *** From Crashing! Some Stupid Slid Into Me..N THEN I SPUN OUT!
03-11-2005, 06:40 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by 97_Tegra
I Slid On Ice!! Then When I Saved My *** From Crashing! Some Stupid Slid Into Me..N THEN I SPUN OUT!
It's not the fault of the ice or the blizzard that you slid. You should have anticipated slippery driving conditions because of the blizzard and adjusted your driving accordingly. You were driving too fast for conditions. That is driver error.
Last edited by yourmama; 03-11-2005 at 06:46 PM.
03-11-2005, 06:46 PM
#44
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going to fast would have been faster then everything else around me..my buddie says...it was fresh snow...now I see it as ice..since when i got out of the ambulance..everything was solid ice..remember dec 18th? that cold *** weather n that storm..thats when it happened:S now..considering I was slowing down..then started to slide..then got bumped..n send infront of another car...the person behind me who took off..wasnt driving for the conditions..now..neither was the other 100's of cars before me remember..I was slowing down..not speeding up..cars infront of me are all moving away from me..car behind me closing in...now..at one point the roads are completly fine...then this one section was ed up...It was just bad luck. Shoulda gone the other way...where it was plowed...but w.e. It happened. I know how i drove. And I drove how I should have..The accident as I see it wasnt my fault. And As The Police Said..The Weather was ed..If IT was a dry day..the accident wouldnt have happened. by the way..the winters that I considered ..where new...now think..new winter tires..front wheel drive..slowing down..all of a sudden sliding...gain full controll...try to continue on..someone bumps..sends car spinning out of controll..since your mr perfect driver..what would you have done?
remember..I was slowing down..not speeding up..cars infront of me are all moving away from me..car behind me closing in...now..at one point the roads are completly fine...then this one section was ed up...It was just bad luck. Shoulda gone the other way...where it was plowed...but w.e. It happened. I know how i drove. And I drove how I should have..The accident as I see it wasnt my fault. And As The Police Said..The Weather was ed..If IT was a dry day..the accident wouldnt have happened. by the way..the winters that I considered ..where new...now think..new winter tires..front wheel drive..slowing down..all of a sudden sliding...gain full controll...try to continue on..someone bumps..sends car spinning out of controll..since your mr perfect driver..what would you have done?
03-11-2005, 06:49 PM
#45
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Left House..Weather Was Sunny And Fine..Got To Mall..Did Xmas Shopping..Left..I've driven in tons of storms...tons of waay worse weather..snow wise..I know wat Im doing..Couldnt stay in the mall parking lot forever..had to get home somehow..didnt even kno it was a blizzard..till the cop said it was.