Michael Pardee

"jack42038" <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:23c433a5-567e-4eee-a481-f4c5c0e7a028@m4g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
>
> Have you rebuilt any engines Michael? Or reringed any pistons?
>

Only once,on a 1970 Volvo. The engine had suffered a lot of detonation so
the rebuild was actually slightly more expensive than a short block would
have been - I think it cost me about $50 more than the short block by the
time I was done, and I didn't even change the oil pump. :-( Every
cylinder had at least one broken compression ring (from the detonation, I'm
sure) and there was a channel torched in one cylinder where the ring was
broken. I had to have the block bored and had to buy new pistons and rings.
Fitting the rings was a minor experience but nothing special. Each ring had
to be test fitted, checked for width of the gap, and the end filed until the
gap was as specified. It was more tedious than adventurous.

I share TeGGer's concern about trying to rebuild a modern engine. The B18 I
was working on was straight bored; I understand more recent engines are
bored with a dummy head fitted so the distortion produced when the head is
torqued down is taken into account in the boring and even the honing. In any
case, older engines were pretty used up at 200K miles while newer ones make
300K or more if reasonably cared for. There are probably more reasons than I
know.

Mike

Tegger

"Michael Pardee" <null@null.org> wrote in
news:tt6dncheB6COGdTUnZ2dnUVZ_uadnZ2d@sedona.net:


>
> I share TeGGer's concern about trying to rebuild a modern engine.



My concern was trying to hone the bores in-situ, which is what I gathered
the OP wanted to do.



> The
> B18 I was working on was straight bored; I understand more recent
> engines are bored with a dummy head fitted so the distortion produced
> when the head is torqued down is taken into account in the boring and
> even the honing.


Apparently that's not as necessary with Honda's open-deck blocks.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

jack42038

On Dec 17, 4:58 pm, "Michael Pardee" <n...@null.org> wrote:
> "jack42038" <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:23c433a5-567e-4eee-a481-f4c5c0e7a028@m4g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Have you rebuilt any engines Michael? Or reringed any pistons?
>
> Only once,on a 1970 Volvo. The engine had suffered a lot of detonation so
> the rebuild was actually slightly more expensive than a short block would
> have been - I think it cost me about $50 more than the short block by the
> time I was done, and I didn't even change the oil pump. :-( Every
> cylinder had at least one broken compression ring (from the detonation, I'm
> sure) and there was a channel torched in one cylinder where the ring was
> broken. I had to have the block bored and had to buy new pistons and rings.
> Fitting the rings was a minor experience but nothing special. Each ring had
> to be test fitted, checked for width of the gap, and the end filed until the
> gap was as specified. It was more tedious than adventurous.
>
> I share TeGGer's concern about trying to rebuild a modern engine. The B18I
> was working on was straight bored; I understand more recent engines are
> bored with a dummy head fitted so the distortion produced when the head is
> torqued down is taken into account in the boring and even the honing. In any
> case, older engines were pretty used up at 200K miles while newer ones make
> 300K or more if reasonably cared for. There are probably more reasons than I
> know.
>
> Mike

I actually read an article earlier about people using Easy Off on
aluminium heads to clean the carbon deposits. Maybe that wasn't so
crazy after all. Obviously it would mean an oil change and I would
probably have to rinse out the cylinder with gasoline because water
would cause it's own problems. Again, maybe that will be a last
resort.

I watched the valves come down today for a while as my son bumped the
ignition with the coil and injector disengaged. From what little I
could see through the hole it certainly didn't look like the intake
valves were even as they came down. One was above the other. Is that
the way it is supposed to be? Is there a way of adjusting that
without taking the head off? Pictures would be good here if you have
any.

Peace!
Jack

jack42038

On Dec 17, 9:15 am, "Elle" <honda.lion...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "jack42038" <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote
> Here is the link for the engines on eBay. I believe they
> answered the
> phone "Beaver". The have a computer operated voice mail and
> seem to
> be quite professional. Though the young man that I spoke to
> said he
> didn't have any idea about swaps for these "older" engines.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m&item=2000404....
> -------------
>
> Interesting. Are you close enough to this ebay seller to
> actually pick up the engine? Three things I would do
>
> 1. Ask if they have any documentation for the mileage on
> their engines.
> 2. Ask at honda-tech.com (a) if anyone knows this seller;
> and (b) other sellers people can recommend. Registration is
> free. Honda-tech.com is overwhelmingly teens and
> 20-somethings that are serious hobbyists particularly in the
> area of engine swaps.
> 3. Search the net for other Accord engine sellers. E.g. a
> search I just did turned uphttp://www.actionsalvage.com/Engine/used-engine-honda.asp#Honda_Accor...
>
> I echo Tegger's caveats about buying a used engine.

I am in far Western Kentucky and they are in South Carolina. I
wouldnt mind the drive this summer, but right now it is a little far
and a little cold. They guarantee them and do keep records of mileage
and VIN numbers. Sounded like a reputable place known for Honda
parts. Believe it or not, eBay has an honest soul or two.

Peace!
Jack

Elle

"jack42038" <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote
I am in far Western Kentucky and they are in South Carolina.
I
wouldnt mind the drive this summer, but right now it is a
little far
and a little cold. They guarantee them and do keep records
of mileage
and VIN numbers. Sounded like a reputable place known for
Honda
parts. Believe it or not, eBay has an honest soul or two.
----

I am still curious about why their engines are so
inexpensive compared to all else I have seen so far on the
net. I buy from Ebay often and have had maybe one sour
transaction out of a few dozen to date.

I too am following your engine cleaning efforts, though.
Good luck.

jack42038

On Dec 18, 7:12 am, "Elle" <honda.lion...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "jack42038" <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote
> I am in far Western Kentucky and they are in South Carolina.
> I
> wouldnt mind the drive this summer, but right now it is a
> little far
> and a little cold. They guarantee them and do keep records
> of mileage
> and VIN numbers. Sounded like a reputable place known for
> Honda
> parts. Believe it or not, eBay has an honest soul or two.
> ----
>
> I am still curious about why their engines are so
> inexpensive compared to all else I have seen so far on the
> net. I buy from Ebay often and have had maybe one sour
> transaction out of a few dozen to date.
>
> I too am following your engine cleaning efforts, though.
> Good luck.

Could be shear volume, the economy and the fact that they require you
to come and get it. I will inquire further at Honda-Tech. I joined
yesterday.

Thanks.
Jack

BTW what is OP??

jack42038

On Dec 18, 1:38 am, jack42038 <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Dec 17, 4:58 pm, "Michael Pardee" <n...@null.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "jack42038" <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:23c433a5-567e-4eee-a481-f4c5c0e7a028@m4g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > Have you rebuilt any engines Michael? Or reringed any pistons?
>
> > Only once,on a 1970 Volvo. The engine had suffered a lot of detonation so
> > the rebuild was actually slightly more expensive than a short block would
> > have been - I think it cost me about $50 more than the short block by the
> > time I was done, and I didn't even change the oil pump. :-( Every
> > cylinder had at least one broken compression ring (from the detonation,I'm
> > sure) and there was a channel torched in one cylinder where the ring was
> > broken. I had to have the block bored and had to buy new pistons and rings.
> > Fitting the rings was a minor experience but nothing special. Each ringhad
> > to be test fitted, checked for width of the gap, and the end filed until the
> > gap was as specified. It was more tedious than adventurous.
>
> > I share TeGGer's concern about trying to rebuild a modern engine. The B18 I
> > was working on was straight bored; I understand more recent engines are
> > bored with a dummy head fitted so the distortion produced when the headis
> > torqued down is taken into account in the boring and even the honing. In any
> > case, older engines were pretty used up at 200K miles while newer ones make
> > 300K or more if reasonably cared for. There are probably more reasons than I
> > know.
>
> > Mike
>
> I actually read an article earlier about people using Easy Off on
> aluminium heads to clean the carbon deposits. Maybe that wasn't so
> crazy after all. Obviously it would mean an oil change and I would
> probably have to rinse out the cylinder with gasoline because water
> would cause it's own problems. Again, maybe that will be a last
> resort.
>
> I watched the valves come down today for a while as my son bumped the
> ignition with the coil and injector disengaged. From what little I
> could see through the hole it certainly didn't look like the intake
> valves were even as they came down. One was above the other. Is that
> the way it is supposed to be? Is there a way of adjusting that
> without taking the head off? Pictures would be good here if you have
> any.
>
> Peace!
> Jack

Okay, here's another crazy one. My dad tells me that in carburetor
engines they would use a little water when the butterfly was open and
the engine was warmed up to clean carbon out of the engine. It would
not go into the oil at all, it would simply clean the carbon out of
the combustion chamber. Worked like a charm he said.

The FI system is pretty much closed during combustion except through
the air intake. Has anyone ever heard of or tried that?? BTW my dad
is only 69, and still in charge of his faculties, so I know he's not
too old to know what he is talking about. AAMOF, I don't know many
people that are too old to know what they are talking about.

Peace!
Jack

Elle

"jack42038" <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote
> BTW what is OP??

OP is "original poster," meaning the person (= poster) who
originated the thread.

Clarification: I meant that I too generally trust Ebay,
especially after checking the seller's reliability rating
and reports.

You certainly may be right about why the engines are so
cheap with this SC dealer. Maybe too these engines are not
in high demand?

I was curious to see whether the ebay seller you linked
before sold other engines. I did not see any Civic engines
for sale at all. I could be wrong, but it seems he has
exactly one Accord engine for your year. Then my concern
would be if it fails you get to haul it back for a refund,
according to the seller's statement on engine sales.

Still, it may be a good gamble. Has the seller said how many
miles are on this engine?

Good to hear you are trying honda-tech. It may shed more
light on options for used engines.

Elle

"Elle" <honda.lioness@gmail.com> wrote
> I was curious to see whether the ebay seller you linked
> before sold other engines. I did not see any Civic engines
> for sale at all.

Correction: I saw none for 88-2000 Civics. He does have a
couple of 2001-05 Civic engines right now.

jack42038

On Dec 18, 10:01 am, "Elle" <honda.lion...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Elle" <honda.lion...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> > I was curious to see whether the ebay seller you linked
> > before sold other engines. I did not see any Civic engines
> > for sale at all.
>
> Correction: I saw none for 88-2000 Civics. He does have a
> couple of 2001-05 Civic engines right now.

Thanks for defining OP. I wondered what it meant.

When I talked to the South Carolina Honda Place on the phone it
sounded like he could sell them all day and I could get whatever I
wanted. The one I called him about had 98,000 on it. There was also
one on the site you sent me to that had 100,000 for 455 dollars. It
may seem like quite a range, but they are both in what I would call
the "cheap" category for an engine. However, I saw a 1997 AJ16 for a
Jaguar XJ6 on ebay for $189 from a seller with 50,000 feedback. That
engine usually runs for 4000 from a Jag wrecker. The reason for the
low price was that nobody is in the market for a jag anything these
days. For those of us who do our own work on them, it is a boon. For
those with parts to sell, they just want to move them. Does that make
as much sense to you as it does to me???

Peace!
Jack

Elle

"jack42038" <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote
When I talked to the South Carolina Honda Place on the phone
it
sounded like he could sell them all day and I could get
whatever I
wanted. The one I called him about had 98,000 on it. There
was also
one on the site you sent me to that had 100,000 for 455
dollars. It
may seem like quite a range, but they are both in what I
would call
the "cheap" category for an engine. However, I saw a 1997
AJ16 for a
Jaguar XJ6 on ebay for $189 from a seller with 50,000
feedback. That
engine usually runs for 4000 from a Jag wrecker. The reason
for the
low price was that nobody is in the market for a jag
anything these
days. For those of us who do our own work on them, it is a
boon. For
those with parts to sell, they just want to move them. Does
that make
as much sense to you as it does to me???
-------------------

Absolutely. If you are in the "serial automotive hobbyist"
category, then we are on the same page. I am just not as
advanced as Mr. Pardee, others here, and the doggone kids at
hond-tech when it comes to breaking down and swapping
engines. Installing a Honda engine is on my bucket list,
though. :-)

BTW, do not mention that jag engine at honda-tech.com. Some
teenager will go buy it and somehow get it working in his
1989 Civic CRX and launch himself to the moon.

Michael Pardee

"jack42038" <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:90d99c17-7ece-4498-8251-f3aa2ba6bc6d@v42g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 17, 4:58 pm, "Michael Pardee" <n...@null.org> wrote:

I watched the valves come down today for a while as my son bumped the
ignition with the coil and injector disengaged. From what little I
could see through the hole it certainly didn't look like the intake
valves were even as they came down. One was above the other. Is that
the way it is supposed to be? Is there a way of adjusting that
without taking the head off? Pictures would be good here if you have
any.

Peace!
Jack

================================================== =

My thinking at this point is that you had good compression with oil, so
fretting about the valves may be borrowing trouble. Let's shelve this
unless/until an oil-added test still doesn't give good compression.

Mike

jack42038

On Dec 18, 10:20 pm, "Michael Pardee" <n...@null.org> wrote:
> "jack42038" <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:90d99c17-7ece-4498-8251-f3aa2ba6bc6d@v42g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 17, 4:58 pm, "Michael Pardee" <n...@null.org> wrote:
>
> I watched the valves come down today for a while as my son bumped the
> ignition with the coil and injector disengaged. From what little I
> could see through the hole it certainly didn't look like the intake
> valves were even as they came down. One was above the other. Is that
> the way it is supposed to be? Is there a way of adjusting that
> without taking the head off? Pictures would be good here if you have
> any.
>
> Peace!
> Jack
>
> ================================================== =
>
> My thinking at this point is that you had good compression with oil, so
> fretting about the valves may be borrowing trouble. Let's shelve this
> unless/until an oil-added test still doesn't give good compression.
>
> Mike

Good logic.

jack42038

On Dec 19, 12:23 am, jack42038 <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Dec 18, 10:20 pm, "Michael Pardee" <n...@null.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "jack42038" <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:90d99c17-7ece-4498-8251-f3aa2ba6bc6d@v42g2000yqv.googlegroups.com....
> > On Dec 17, 4:58 pm, "Michael Pardee" <n...@null.org> wrote:
>
> > I watched the valves come down today for a while as my son bumped the
> > ignition with the coil and injector disengaged. From what little I
> > could see through the hole it certainly didn't look like the intake
> > valves were even as they came down. One was above the other. Is that
> > the way it is supposed to be? Is there a way of adjusting that
> > without taking the head off? Pictures would be good here if you have
> > any.
>
> > Peace!
> > Jack
>
> > ================================================== =
>
> > My thinking at this point is that you had good compression with oil, so
> > fretting about the valves may be borrowing trouble. Let's shelve this
> > unless/until an oil-added test still doesn't give good compression.
>
> > Mike
>
> Good logic.

Ok, the oil added test got me up to 120 today, but for a brief period
afterwards, and I mean just about 10 minutes, I had coolant leaking
from the exhaust. It is not leaking from the exhaust anymore, but
what the heck was that from? My son ran it in the lot next door for
an hour and there was no steam or anything coming from the exhaust, he
is still trying to learn how to drive a stick. Can you say "bunny
hop"? Did I open up a problem with the head gasket while trying to
determine the pressure on the first cylinder?

I think there may be a gremlin in my car.

jim beam

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 21:30:23 -0800, jack42038 wrote:

> On Dec 19, 12:23 am, jack42038 <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 18, 10:20 pm, "Michael Pardee" <n...@null.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > "jack42038" <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> >news:90d99c17-7ece-4498-8251-
f3aa2ba6bc6d@v42g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
>> > On Dec 17, 4:58 pm, "Michael Pardee" <n...@null.org> wrote:
>>
>> > I watched the valves come down today for a while as my son bumped the
>> > ignition with the coil and injector disengaged. From what little I
>> > could see through the hole it certainly didn't look like the intake
>> > valves were even as they came down. One was above the other. Is
>> > that the way it is supposed to be? Is there a way of adjusting that
>> > without taking the head off? Pictures would be good here if you have
>> > any.
>>
>> > Peace!
>> > Jack
>>
>> > ================================================== =
>>
>> > My thinking at this point is that you had good compression with oil,
>> > so fretting about the valves may be borrowing trouble. Let's shelve
>> > this unless/until an oil-added test still doesn't give good
>> > compression.
>>
>> > Mike
>>
>> Good logic.
>
> Ok, the oil added test got me up to 120 today, but for a brief period
> afterwards, and I mean just about 10 minutes, I had coolant leaking from
> the exhaust.

so there's your compression problem. run your tests again, but this time,
observe the coolant system and look for bubbles.



> It is not leaking from the exhaust anymore, but what the
> heck was that from? My son ran it in the lot next door for an hour and
> there was no steam or anything coming from the exhaust, he is still
> trying to learn how to drive a stick. Can you say "bunny hop"? Did I
> open up a problem with the head gasket while trying to determine the
> pressure on the first cylinder?
>
> I think there may be a gremlin in my car.