Stewart

"Leftie" <No@Thanks.net> wrote in message
news:9PnVm.64638$X01.38059@newsfe07.iad...
> jim beam wrote:
>> On 12/13/2009 06:06 PM, Stewart wrote:
>>> "Tegger"<invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns9CDE58C5DB75Btegger@208.90.168.18...
>>>> JRE<nothing@nowhere.invalid> wrote in
>>>> news:hfs528$31b$1@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> All that said, does the lifetime warranty apply to all new Honda
>>>>> exhaust parts, including those for older cars?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes it does, provided you're replacing a replacment Honda part
>>>> with
>>>> another
>>>> replacment Honda part.
>>>
>>> Why don't they lifetime warranty the parts when the car is new if
>>> they
>>> do so for OEM replacements?
>>
>> er, dunno. why don' t they give the car an unconditional,
>> unlimited "forever" satisfaction "we'll refund you in full"
>> guarantee? do you think "money" might be involved?

If the idea of buying OEM is to get the same thing one gets with the
original equipment, it only stands to reason that the warranty for the
the original equipment be the same as the OEM replacement parts.

>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> You also need your original bill of sale, or the dealer needs to
>>>> be
>>>> able to
>>>> find the previous repair in their system.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> If so, I might
>>>>> reconsider using Honda parts next time (though all the pipes are
>>>>> now
>>>>> under a year old, so it will be some time before then).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I, frankly, have had different experiences from you for
>>>> aftermarket
>>>> exhaust
>>>> parts. Maybe Bosal is better, I don't know. And frankly, I don't
>>>> want to
>>>> risk it.
>>>>
>>>> My exhaust was 100% OEM until a couple of years ago.
>>>>
>>>> When my OEM cat rusted out a couple of years ago, I had to buy an
>>>> aftermarket one (a Walker) because new OEM is no longer available
>>>> for my
>>>> car. During the repair, the shop discovered the A and B-pipes
>>>> were
>>>> also
>>>> rusted through, so they replaced them, without asking me, also
>>>> with
>>>> Walker
>>>> parts.
>>>>
>>>> In the afternoon I came to pick the car up. I peeked undeneath
>>>> before going
>>>> in to pay and saw the new B-pipe, which DID NOT FIT at all. The
>>>> hanger
>>>> rubbers were all pulled well forwards and off to one side.
>>>> Plus the hangers and mounting flanges were hokey little things
>>>> that
>>>> were
>>>> nothing like the OEM fittings.
>>>>
>>>> They ended up replacing the new Walker B-pipe with a new OEM
>>>> B-pipe
>>>> (no
>>>> extra charge to me), which DOES fit properly. The hangers are now
>>>> straight.
>>>> The Walker A-pipe remains. It doesn't quite fit either, meaning
>>>> that
>>>> by the
>>>> time the assembly gets to the tailpipe, the tailpipes are
>>>> slightly
>>>> misaligned in their bumper aperture, whereas before they were
>>>> dead-center.
>>>>
>>>> The Walker A-pipe is a piece of crap. When the (very weak) hanger
>>>> flange
>>>> finally breaks off, a new OEM A-pipe is going in and I'll be down
>>>> to
>>>> the
>>>> cat as being the only aftermarket part in the system.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Tegger
>>>>
>>>> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
>>>> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but when I got a Honda
> Lifetime Warranty muffler for my old Civic Si, and then wore *it*
> out, the free replacement was much cheaper and didn't have much of a
> warranty.

In effect, the warranty is somewhat limited.

Joe

On 2009-12-14, Peabody <waybackNO746SPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Tegger says...
>
> > Weird. I've had at least two "warranty" replacements of
> > replacement OEM Honda mufflers. Both of those were
> > absolutely free to me, and the next one will be as well.
>
> Well, I've been unable to find a friend with a floor jack
> and jack stands, so it looks like I'll be getting the
> muffler replaced "professionally."

Why not just buy them? They don't take much space, and they cost less
than the labor is going to cost you for this job. Once you have them,
you have them forever.

--
Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
joe at hits - buffalo dot com
"Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
time..." - Danny, American History X

Stewart

"JRE" <nothing@nowhere.invalid> wrote in message
news:hg6tik$bs6$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Tegger wrote:
>> JRE <nothing@nowhere.invalid> wrote in
>> news:hg6p62$ac2$1@news.eternal-
>> september.org:
>>
>>
>>> I understand completely. I felt the same way last week when I
>>> actually paid for a car repair, but the tools required would
>>> probably never pay me back and the repair was far cheaper than the
>>> tools (25-30% of the cost of the tools, in fact).
>>>
>> I think it depends on how dedicated you are to the idea of doing
>> your own repairs.
>>
>> I see my tool purchases as investments for the future. The amount
>> of money I save in doing my own work means I have lots of cash
>> available to allocate towards new tools.
>
> I have always done this on a dollar basis. My payback period on
> tools used to be 10 years. Lately, I've been oscillating between 5
> and 10 years. The repair I just paid for was the first non-warranty
> mechanical repair I did not do myself in a very, very long time. My
> guess, though it's impossible to predict, is that the tools would
> not have paid me back in well over 10 years. I'm fast approaching
> the age where the window of utility is getting perceptibly shorter,
> and a 20-year payback probably makes little sense. And I didn't
> know anyone I could borrow them from, either.
>
> Do you own a tire machine and spin balancer? A full-size hydraulic
> lift? A 4-wheel alignment rack? A valve refacer? A cylinder head
> resurfacer? A crankshaft grinder? A frame machine? A paint booth
> for clearcoat? Outside the businesses that can afford them, I
> suspect not, and I further suspect we're talking about *where* we
> each choose to draw the line, not *whether* we choose to draw the
> line. Were I a billionaire, I'd have a really cool garage, just for
> fun, but...
>
>> Plus -- and I must be crazy -- I actually LIKE working on my car,
>> even when what I'm doing is something scarily new to me and which
>> at first appears to go horribly wrong until I eventually figure it
>> out, after which there's an elation that beats chemical
>> intoxication...
>
> Yup. Same here.
>
>>
>> If you don't see yourself doing lots of your own work past, say,
>> light bulb changes, just get the pro's to fix your car. Nothing
>> wrong with that at all. I don't do my own roofing or windows; I pay
>> pro's to do that.
>
> Oddly enough, I do my own roofing and most interior renovation work,
> but draw the line at windows. Not because I can't, but because I
> don't want to.
>
> --
> JRE

Tis always good to be in a position to chose one's battles. I
remodeled our kitchen with the paid help of a friend/contractor that
included a full demolition, redesign and about 700 sq feet of tile
(front entry and bar area included, boy that old parquet floor was
tough to pull up). We filled a 40 yard dumpster....and it took about
3 weeks.

After that, I ended up having the kid down the street cut the lawn for
the rest of the summer (let him use my tractor, a couple of acres) and
I taught him how to do routine maintenance on cars for me. He learned
something, made a few bucks and I got a rest!

I just didn't feel like doing it myself.

Leftie

Tegger wrote:
> Leftie <No@Thanks.net> wrote in news:9PnVm.64638$X01.38059@newsfe07.iad:
>
>
>> I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but when I got a Honda
>> Lifetime Warranty muffler for my old Civic Si, and then wore *it* out,
>> the free replacement was much cheaper and didn't have much of a warranty.
>>
>
>
>
> Weird. I've had at least two "warranty" replacements of replacement OEM
> Honda mufflers. Both of those were absolutely free to me, and the next one
> will be as well.
>
> Are you sure the replacement you got was actually OEM? Did it is have a
> Honda part number? Don't put it past the dealership to try to sell you an
> aftermarket one instead of OEM.
>

The first replacement (the one I paid for) was OEM. The second one
had no chromed tips on the exhaust outlets, looked cheaper, and didn't
last as long. There was no lifetime warranty with that one and it only
lasted a few years. Maybe the dealer ripped me off. This was circa 1990.

Greg

Tegger wrote:
> Greg <nospam@null.net> wrote in news:6gwVm.43068$kY2.22438@newsfe01.iad:
>
>
>> You already have a jack; the one in your trunk. Find some bricks, 2x6
>> boards, etc. Now invest in some ramps for the front end. You'll get
>> your $ back, and then some instantly. Assuming you're paying someone to
>> change the oil, etc., the savings will continue forever.
>
>
>
> This advice is so astonishingly bad I'm left wondering if "Greg" is a
> troll.

BREATHE!!

Ah.....

Now, please put away the torches and pitchforks!

I'm not suggesting he try to build some crazy shelf-like structure to
support the car! The idea is to drive the front of the car up onto the
ramps, then sequentially jack the rear corners, letting each rear tire
down on a sandwich of FLATLY STACKED boards, or possibly large, flat,
solid bricks.

I must admit that the frangible nature of the brick makes me a little
nervous. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned that particular material.
OTOH, I might choose the bricks-of-death over some of the China-Mart
jackstands I've seen...

I also brain farted on the board size. I don't know where the hell '6'
came from. A tall stack 6 inches wide isn't such a hot idea! A pile of
4~5 2x12s would be much better.

Tegger

JRE <nothing@nowhere.invalid> wrote in
news:hg6tik$bs6$1@news.eternal-september.org:


>
> Do you own a tire machine and spin balancer? A full-size hydraulic
> lift? A 4-wheel alignment rack? A valve refacer? A cylinder head
> resurfacer? A crankshaft grinder? A frame machine? A paint booth
> for clearcoat? Outside the businesses that can afford them, I suspect
> not, and I further suspect we're talking about *where* we each choose
> to draw the line, not *whether* we choose to draw the line.



Well, yeah. That's the point I thought I was making.

Which is why I ultimately said, "If you don't see yourself doing lots of
your own work past, say, light bulb changes, just get the pro's to fix
your car. Nothing wrong with that at all. I don't do my own roofing or
windows; I pay pro's to do that."


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Peabody

Ok, the plot thickens a bit.

There's a local guy who posted on Craigslist as a Honda mechanic,
with dealership experience. I contacted him, and he offered to do
the installation for $60 if I ran into trouble, assuming I already
had the parts.

And I've been spraying the bolts with PB Blaster daily, and will see
if I can loosen the nuts sometime in the next day or two. They
don't look rusted up at all. The car is a 94, but only has 63K
miles on it, so I think there's at least a chance I won't have to
cut the bolts.

Anyway, with the backstop of the local mechanic, I think I will go
ahead and order the Bosal muffler and gasket from RockAuto, and a
new hardware set if I can't get the bolts loose. I understand it's
not a Honda muffler, but I think there's a reasonable chance it's a
pretty good muffler and will last long enough.

I've been scoping out the situation pretty carefully, and it appears
in terms of physically moving the old muffler out and the new one
in, it isn't absolutely necessary to jack the car up at all. And
the bolts and rear hangers are reasonably accessible. The front
hanger - not so much, but at least I can reach it.

Not having done this before, it looks like the plan would be to
remove the bolts first, and break the connection at the gasket.
Then that would let me move the whole assembly around a bit to get
the hangers off. Then installing the new muffler would be the
reverse, probably hooking up the front hanger first, then the
rear hangers, and the gasket and bolts last.

Well, I'm sure it will be more difficult than it looks, but I think
I can get it done. But if not, I can bail out and get the mechanic
to do it.

pws

jim beam wrote:

> otoh, he's pissing in the knowledge pool with this "just as good as oem"
> bs, so it's good to point that out. just like you say, oem spec is
> different and more stringent. there are some exceptions to this, but
> for honda, exhaust systems is not one of them.
>
> to anyone else reading, if you're driving detroit garbage, many times
> after-market /is/ superior to oem - buy aftermarket and enjoy. but this
> is not true for honda because honda oem standards are so high. honda
> oem is guaranteed to work and be reliable. with anything else, you're
> taking needless chances for trivial [if any] "savings", and if you don't
> have all the facts about an after-market part available to you, you're
> simply letting hope triumph over the logic and experience of others who
> know what you don't.

The 1995 Accord that I now own has 78,000 miles, and the muffler was
replaced about 5 years ago with an aftermarket unit that works great, so
far anyway.

That OEM Honda muffler was not anything special.
It went through very hard use on a lot of short mileage trips, and then
failed at about 10 years and only about 45k to 55K miles of use.

I have had stainless aftermarket exhausts on 3 different cars over the
past 24 years, including my current '91 turbo Miata, that were all
better and longer-lasting than what came on the Accord. Not equal to
Honda OEM, superior.

Sorry if I am pissing in the knowledge pool, but this is my personal
experience.

Pat

jim beam

On 12/15/2009 09:08 PM, pws wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>
>> otoh, he's pissing in the knowledge pool with this "just as good as
>> oem" bs, so it's good to point that out. just like you say, oem spec
>> is different and more stringent. there are some exceptions to this,
>> but for honda, exhaust systems is not one of them.
>>
>> to anyone else reading, if you're driving detroit garbage, many times
>> after-market /is/ superior to oem - buy aftermarket and enjoy. but
>> this is not true for honda because honda oem standards are so high.
>> honda oem is guaranteed to work and be reliable. with anything else,
>> you're taking needless chances for trivial [if any] "savings", and if
>> you don't have all the facts about an after-market part available to
>> you, you're simply letting hope triumph over the logic and experience
>> of others who know what you don't.
>
> The 1995 Accord that I now own has 78,000 miles, and the muffler was
> replaced about 5 years ago with an aftermarket unit that works great, so
> far anyway.
>
> That OEM Honda muffler was not anything special.
> It went through very hard use on a lot of short mileage trips, and then
> failed at about 10 years and only about 45k to 55K miles of use.
>
> I have had stainless aftermarket exhausts on 3 different cars over the
> past 24 years, including my current '91 turbo Miata, that were all
> better and longer-lasting than what came on the Accord. Not equal to
> Honda OEM, superior.
>
> Sorry if I am pissing in the knowledge pool, but this is my personal
> experience.
>
> Pat
>
>
>


er, dare i point out that when you talk of replacement with bosal,
you're NOT talking about replacement with several hundred dollars of
stainless? or am i not supposed to call "bullshit" and simply play along?

bottom line, it's your car dude - you go ahead and do whatever you want.
but you're fudging the facts, and misrepresenting them here. that
makes you look like an ***.

pws

jim beam wrote:

> er, dare i point out that when you talk of replacement with bosal,
> you're NOT talking about replacement with several hundred dollars of
> stainless? or am i not supposed to call "bullshit" and simply play along?
>
> bottom line, it's your car dude - you go ahead and do whatever you want.
> but you're fudging the facts, and misrepresenting them here. that
> makes you look like an ***.

The muffler on my Accord is not stainless.

My experience has been that a Honda muffler, at least one from 1995, is
not this super high-quality piece of equipment compared to what I
replaced it with.

I have read a number of your posts, Mr. Jim Beam, and you are truly a
master of presenting yourself as an ***, so there is a bit of the pot
calling the kettle black here.

Have a nice day, and good luck finding someone else to fight with
online. Don't hit those keys too hard now.

Pat

jim beam

On 12/16/2009 06:12 AM, pws wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>
>> er, dare i point out that when you talk of replacement with bosal,
>> you're NOT talking about replacement with several hundred dollars of
>> stainless? or am i not supposed to call "bullshit" and simply play along?
>>
>> bottom line, it's your car dude - you go ahead and do whatever you
>> want. but you're fudging the facts, and misrepresenting them here.
>> that makes you look like an ***.
>
> The muffler on my Accord is not stainless.
>
> My experience has been that a Honda muffler, at least one from 1995, is
> not this super high-quality piece of equipment compared to what I
> replaced it with.

you know, when you first said "bosal" and "cheaper", i was completely
under the impression that you were /not/ talking about $600 of custom
stainless. clearly i was mistaken!


>
> I have read a number of your posts, Mr. Jim Beam, and you are truly a
> master of presenting yourself as an ***, so there is a bit of the pot
> calling the kettle black here.
>
> Have a nice day, and good luck finding someone else to fight with
> online. Don't hit those keys too hard now.

don't choke on your bullshit there dude - you'll need it for your rose
garden.

pws

jim beam wrote:

> you know, when you first said "bosal" and "cheaper", i was completely
> under the impression that you were /not/ talking about $600 of custom
> stainless. clearly i was mistaken!

No, you are mistaken in that I never said "bosal", or "cheaper". That
was the original poster, not me.

I know it is probably hard to keep track of which person you insult and
what you are insulting them for, but please try harder.
It is hard for you to look very clever when you are wrong, especially
while trying so hard.

> don't choke on your bullshit there dude - you'll need it for your rose
> garden.

You should do stand-up comedy, that is really, really funny.

Seriously......That is as much as you are going to get out of me unless
you post some more completely erroneous information about what I did or
did not say.

Again, have a nice day, Mr. Beam,

Pat

jim beam

On 12/16/2009 06:24 AM, pws wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>
>> you know, when you first said "bosal" and "cheaper", i was completely
>> under the impression that you were /not/ talking about $600 of custom
>> stainless. clearly i was mistaken!
>
> No, you are mistaken in that I never said "bosal", or "cheaper". That
> was the original poster, not me.

then /you/ need to go back and read /my/ original post - you know, the
one you've carefully snipped.



>
> I know it is probably hard to keep track of which person you insult and
> what you are insulting them for, but please try harder.
> It is hard for you to look very clever when you are wrong, especially
> while trying so hard.
>
>> don't choke on your bullshit there dude - you'll need it for your rose
>> garden.
>
> You should do stand-up comedy, that is really, really funny.
>
> Seriously......That is as much as you are going to get out of me unless
> you post some more completely erroneous information about what I did or
> did not say.
>
> Again, have a nice day, Mr. Beam,
>
> Pat

see above, big guy.

pws

jim beam wrote:
> On 12/16/2009 06:24 AM, pws wrote:
>> jim beam wrote:
>>
>>> you know, when you first said "bosal" and "cheaper", i was completely
>>> under the impression that you were /not/ talking about $600 of custom
>>> stainless. clearly i was mistaken!
>>
>> No, you are mistaken in that I never said "bosal", or "cheaper". That
>> was the original poster, not me.
>
> then /you/ need to go back and read /my/ original post - you know, the
> one you've carefully snipped.
>
>
>
>>
>> I know it is probably hard to keep track of which person you insult and
>> what you are insulting them for, but please try harder.
>> It is hard for you to look very clever when you are wrong, especially
>> while trying so hard.
>>
>>> don't choke on your bullshit there dude - you'll need it for your rose
>>> garden.
>>
>> You should do stand-up comedy, that is really, really funny.
>>
>> Seriously......That is as much as you are going to get out of me unless
>> you post some more completely erroneous information about what I did or
>> did not say.
>>
>> Again, have a nice day, Mr. Beam,
>>
>> Pat
>
> see above, big guy.


http://blogs.technet.com/photos/gray.../original.aspx

Tegger

pws <pwshelton@austin.rr.com> wrote in news:hg9pvc$r4f$1@aioe.org:


>
> That OEM Honda muffler was not anything special.
> It went through very hard use on a lot of short mileage trips, and
> then failed at about 10 years and only about 45k to 55K miles of use.


Ten years is an excellent lifespan, especialy for a muffler that has had
the treatment yours did.

My personal (and fairly extensive) experience with aftermarket has never
yielded more than two years without additional problems arising. But then I
had been looking for /cheaper/ alternatives to OEM. Which turned out to be
very cheap indeed.


>
> I have had stainless aftermarket exhausts on 3 different cars over the
> past 24 years, including my current '91 turbo Miata, that were all
> better and longer-lasting than what came on the Accord. Not equal to
> Honda OEM, superior.



Were they more expensive than OEM?




--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/