jim beam

On 12/17/2009 10:52 AM, pws wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> On 12/16/2009 06:24 AM, pws wrote:
>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>
>>>> you know, when you first said "bosal" and "cheaper", i was completely
>>>> under the impression that you were /not/ talking about $600 of custom
>>>> stainless. clearly i was mistaken!
>>>
>>> No, you are mistaken in that I never said "bosal", or "cheaper". That
>>> was the original poster, not me.
>>
>> then /you/ need to go back and read /my/ original post - you know, the
>> one you've carefully snipped.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I know it is probably hard to keep track of which person you insult and
>>> what you are insulting them for, but please try harder.
>>> It is hard for you to look very clever when you are wrong, especially
>>> while trying so hard.
>>>
>>>> don't choke on your bullshit there dude - you'll need it for your rose
>>>> garden.
>>>
>>> You should do stand-up comedy, that is really, really funny.
>>>
>>> Seriously......That is as much as you are going to get out of me unless
>>> you post some more completely erroneous information about what I did or
>>> did not say.
>>>
>>> Again, have a nice day, Mr. Beam,
>>>
>>> Pat
>>
>> see above, big guy.
>
>
> http://blogs.technet.com/photos/gray.../original.aspx
>
>

that's strange - your wife doesn't talk to /me/ like that.

jim beam

On 12/18/2009 04:11 AM, Tegger wrote:
> pws<pwshelton@austin.rr.com> wrote in news:hg9pvc$r4f$1@aioe.org:
>
>
>>
>> That OEM Honda muffler was not anything special.
>> It went through very hard use on a lot of short mileage trips, and
>> then failed at about 10 years and only about 45k to 55K miles of use.
>
>
> Ten years is an excellent lifespan, especialy for a muffler that has had
> the treatment yours did.
>
> My personal (and fairly extensive) experience with aftermarket has never
> yielded more than two years without additional problems arising. But then I
> had been looking for /cheaper/ alternatives to OEM. Which turned out to be
> very cheap indeed.
>
>
>>
>> I have had stainless aftermarket exhausts on 3 different cars over the
>> past 24 years, including my current '91 turbo Miata, that were all
>> better and longer-lasting than what came on the Accord. Not equal to
>> Honda OEM, superior.
>
>
>
> Were they more expensive than OEM?
>

oooh, are we /allowed/ to do this "reality check" stuff around here? i
thought this game was just for people to have fun talking through their ***.

pws

Tegger wrote:

> Ten years is an excellent lifespan, especialy for a muffler that has had
> the treatment yours did.
>
> My personal (and fairly extensive) experience with aftermarket has never
> yielded more than two years without additional problems arising. But then I
> had been looking for /cheaper/ alternatives to OEM. Which turned out to be
> very cheap indeed.

The aftermarket, non-stainless muffler I have on now has been there for
5 years and it is still in good condition. It has also been used pretty
hard, lots of short trips.
If it goes out really fast, lesson learned. If it makes it even 3 more
years, then it was a lot better value than going with a factory one, in
my personal experience, which is not terribly extensive, but does cover
24 years and about 8 cars.

>> I have had stainless aftermarket exhausts on 3 different cars over the
>> past 24 years, including my current '91 turbo Miata, that were all
>> better and longer-lasting than what came on the Accord. Not equal to
>> Honda OEM, superior.
>
>
>
> Were they more expensive than OEM?

I do fully see your point, Tegger. Thanks for at least being polite. I
just filtered "Mr. Beam", as I quit playing the "let's fight on the
internet game" with lightweights like him a long time ago.

Life is too short to waste too many keystrokes on people like him. With
no life, he will attempt to win through pure endurance, and he WILL get
the last word in, just watch.
Everybody is big and badass in front of their computer, I learned that a
while back.

With you, however, I will be back for advice on this Accord, whether we
agree on OEM mufflers as the best option or not.

Pat

ACAR

On Dec 14, 11:27 am, Peabody <waybackNO746SPA...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Tegger says...
>
> > Weird. I've had at least two "warranty" replacements of
> > replacement OEM Honda mufflers. Both of those were
> > absolutely free to me, and the next one will be as well.
>
snip

Muffler warranty: When I replaced mine (years ago) I was told that the
Warranty applied to the part only. The dealer would still charge for
installation if the replacement part failed. So naturally, I bought
the Honda part and took it to my independent shop where I had it
installed for half the price. Muffler warranty still valid. Car was
wrecked before second muffler wore out. Of course, Honda does not
offer a warranty on pipes which typically give out long before
mufflers. Depending on the car it is possible to find higher quality
pipes and exhaust systems than OEM; even Honda OEM.

OEM exhaust system in my 1999 Accord is still OK even after spending
time in Syracuse, NY and Chicago.

fyi: the stainless steel exhaust system (cat included) in my 1998
Sienna required zero work in the 12 years and 235K miles I owned the
car. then again, I live in the Baltimore area where road salt isn't an
everyday occurrence 5 months of the year.

Tegger

pws <pwshelton@austin.rr.com> wrote in news:hgg5hi$um9$1@aioe.org:

> Tegger wrote:
>
>> Ten years is an excellent lifespan, especialy for a muffler that has
>> had the treatment yours did.
>>
>> My personal (and fairly extensive) experience with aftermarket has
>> never yielded more than two years without additional problems
>> arising. But then I had been looking for /cheaper/ alternatives to
>> OEM. Which turned out to be very cheap indeed.
>
> The aftermarket, non-stainless muffler I have on now has been there
> for 5 years and it is still in good condition. It has also been used
> pretty hard, lots of short trips.



It might have to do with your geographical location. I'm located in the
very heart of the north-eastern Rust Belt, where the climate is horribly
abusive of anything made of steel, especially when the moisture is
regularly combined with road salt.

If you're in an area whose climate is kinder to steels, your mufflers would
last longer, period.



> If it goes out really fast, lesson learned. If it makes it even 3 more
> years, then it was a lot better value than going with a factory one,
> in my personal experience, which is not terribly extensive, but does
> cover 24 years and about 8 cars.
>
>>> I have had stainless aftermarket exhausts on 3 different cars over
>>> the past 24 years, including my current '91 turbo Miata, that were
>>> all better and longer-lasting than what came on the Accord. Not
>>> equal to Honda OEM, superior.
>>
>>
>>
>> Were they more expensive than OEM?
>
> I do fully see your point, Tegger.



One thing I can't quite understand is why Honda does not simply change to
semi-stainless steels. Toyota has been making their entire exhaust systems
from that for at least 12 years now. Our '99 Tercel (yes there was such a
beast) still has its original muffler, and it's just like new. No rust
anywhere, even in the weld seams.

But then Honda also still uses rustable steels for their brake caliper
pistons, whereas Toyota makes those out of stainless as well.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

pws

Tegger wrote:

> It might have to do with your geographical location. I'm located in the
> very heart of the north-eastern Rust Belt, where the climate is horribly
> abusive of anything made of steel, especially when the moisture is
> regularly combined with road salt.
>
> If you're in an area whose climate is kinder to steels, your mufflers would
> last longer, period.

Central Texas? That makes sense.

We get ice on the roads here about once every 3 or 4 years, and then
they drop sand instead of salt, so the two mufflers have probably never
encountered salt at all.
This Accord was my grandma's car, I don't think it even made a trip to
the coast. I have owned it for about a month now.

I had the top down on my non-Honda vehicle yesterday, I think it reached
70 degrees, but I will pay for it starting in June when the heat wave
begins again.

> One thing I can't quite understand is why Honda does not simply change to
> semi-stainless steels. Toyota has been making their entire exhaust systems
> from that for at least 12 years now. Our '99 Tercel (yes there was such a
> beast) still has its original muffler, and it's just like new. No rust
> anywhere, even in the weld seams.
>
> But then Honda also still uses rustable steels for their brake caliper
> pistons, whereas Toyota makes those out of stainless as well.

I didn't know that, buy come to think of it, I don't remember the
exhaust ever receiving repairs on my parent's '94 Toyota Camry with
173,000 miles.
I just replaced the neutral safety switch and the harmonic balancer on
that car, and brakes are next, but the exhaust looks good.

Thanks Tegger,

Pat

E. Meyer

On 12/19/09 6:31 AM, in article hgih13$8aq$1@aioe.org, "pws"
<pwshelton@austin.rr.com> wrote:

> Tegger wrote:
>
>> It might have to do with your geographical location. I'm located in the
>> very heart of the north-eastern Rust Belt, where the climate is horribly
>> abusive of anything made of steel, especially when the moisture is
>> regularly combined with road salt.
>>
>> If you're in an area whose climate is kinder to steels, your mufflers would
>> last longer, period.
>
> Central Texas? That makes sense.
>
> We get ice on the roads here about once every 3 or 4 years, and then
> they drop sand instead of salt, so the two mufflers have probably never
> encountered salt at all.
> This Accord was my grandma's car, I don't think it even made a trip to
> the coast. I have owned it for about a month now.
>
> I had the top down on my non-Honda vehicle yesterday, I think it reached
> 70 degrees, but I will pay for it starting in June when the heat wave
> begins again.
>
>> One thing I can't quite understand is why Honda does not simply change to
>> semi-stainless steels. Toyota has been making their entire exhaust systems
>> from that for at least 12 years now. Our '99 Tercel (yes there was such a
>> beast) still has its original muffler, and it's just like new. No rust
>> anywhere, even in the weld seams.
>>
>> But then Honda also still uses rustable steels for their brake caliper
>> pistons, whereas Toyota makes those out of stainless as well.
>
> I didn't know that, buy come to think of it, I don't remember the
> exhaust ever receiving repairs on my parent's '94 Toyota Camry with
> 173,000 miles.
> I just replaced the neutral safety switch and the harmonic balancer on
> that car, and brakes are next, but the exhaust looks good.
>
> Thanks Tegger,
>
> Pat

Texas pretty much explains it. In the 37 years I've been in Texas (El Paso,
Houston, and Dallas) I've had to replace one muffler & no pipes. That was
on a '91 Mazda pickup at age 11 yr & 150,000 miles. Mufflers are just not
an issue here.

Grumpy AuContraire

pws wrote:
> Tegger wrote:
>
>> It might have to do with your geographical location. I'm located in
>> the very heart of the north-eastern Rust Belt, where the climate is
>> horribly abusive of anything made of steel, especially when the
>> moisture is regularly combined with road salt.
>>
>> If you're in an area whose climate is kinder to steels, your mufflers
>> would last longer, period.
>
> Central Texas? That makes sense.
>
> We get ice on the roads here about once every 3 or 4 years, and then
> they drop sand instead of salt, so the two mufflers have probably never
> encountered salt at all.

Not true. TxDOT uses the same chemical(s), that other states use and
the only saving grace is that it only occurs a very few times a year,
(at least in the Austin area). The days of just using plain sand are
long gone.

JT

Tegger

Grumpy AuContraire <GrumpyOne@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote in
news:IOCdnY0GNIgE1rDWnZ2dnUVZ_uZi4p2d@giganews.com :

> pws wrote:
>> Tegger wrote:
>>
>>> It might have to do with your geographical location. I'm located in
>>> the very heart of the north-eastern Rust Belt, where the climate is
>>> horribly abusive of anything made of steel, especially when the
>>> moisture is regularly combined with road salt.
>>>
>>> If you're in an area whose climate is kinder to steels, your mufflers
>>> would last longer, period.
>>
>> Central Texas? That makes sense.
>>
>> We get ice on the roads here about once every 3 or 4 years, and then
>> they drop sand instead of salt, so the two mufflers have probably never
>> encountered salt at all.
>
> Not true. TxDOT uses the same chemical(s), that other states use and
> the only saving grace is that it only occurs a very few times a year,
> (at least in the Austin area). The days of just using plain sand are
> long gone.
>



Whereas our roads are bathed in salt constantly from November to May.

The salt corrodes the hell out of anything metallic, but does make the
roads /considerably/ safer than they would be otherwise.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

jim beam

On 12/18/2009 07:02 AM, pws wrote:
> Tegger wrote:
>
>> Ten years is an excellent lifespan, especialy for a muffler that has
>> had the treatment yours did.
>>
>> My personal (and fairly extensive) experience with aftermarket has
>> never yielded more than two years without additional problems arising.
>> But then I had been looking for /cheaper/ alternatives to OEM. Which
>> turned out to be very cheap indeed.
>
> The aftermarket, non-stainless muffler I have on now has been there for
> 5 years and it is still in good condition. It has also been used pretty
> hard, lots of short trips.
> If it goes out really fast, lesson learned. If it makes it even 3 more
> years, then it was a lot better value than going with a factory one, in
> my personal experience, which is not terribly extensive, but does cover
> 24 years and about 8 cars.
>
>>> I have had stainless aftermarket exhausts on 3 different cars over the
>>> past 24 years, including my current '91 turbo Miata, that were all
>>> better and longer-lasting than what came on the Accord. Not equal to
>>> Honda OEM, superior.
>>
>>
>>
>> Were they more expensive than OEM?
>
> I do fully see your point, Tegger. Thanks for at least being polite. I
> just filtered "Mr. Beam", as I quit playing the "let's fight on the
> internet game" with lightweights like him a long time ago.

so, you "quit playing" with others? who could possibly be the ONE
common factor in all your other "games" given that it's not me???


>
> Life is too short to waste too many keystrokes on people like him. With
> no life, he will attempt to win through pure endurance, and he WILL get
> the last word in, just watch.
> Everybody is big and badass in front of their computer, I learned that a
> while back.
>
> With you, however, I will be back for advice on this Accord, whether we
> agree on OEM mufflers as the best option or not.
>
> Pat