Elle

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote re the Phillips head screws holding the
alternator brush assembly in place:
> I cannot stress how important it is that your *stubby* Phillips
> screwdriver
> be a *perfect* fit in the screws. You need to make sure that you hold the
> driver straight in line with the screws, and push really hard while
> turning, to make sure the head doesn't ride up out of the Phillips cross.
> If it rides out, you may round off the cross enough that removal of the
> alternator may be the only way to remove the screws.
>
> If the only Phillips driver you have is one size too small, DON'T USE IT!
> Go buy the proper one.

I have found that slot-end screwdrivers often work better for freeing
Phillips head screws. Do you object to such an approach? If so, why?

notbob

On 2006-02-23, Elle <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote

>> The two screws are under that gasket, as I recall.
>
> You must be right.

Not so. Look at the brush assy in this part picture:

http://www.maximumautoparts.com/HO_A...~Assy._mo.html

You can clearly see the two assy mounting tabs (the little thingies
with holes in them) sticking out beyond the "brush holder insulator",
that keyhole shaped orange thingie. The reason you can't easily see
the screws when the brush assy is mounted on the alternator is because
they're both sunken down in between cooling fins and other surrounding
junk like the voltage regulator and diode assy. One sits a little
further out than the other, but they're both recessed. The screw
mounting holes are not holes in the plastic assy housing that run the
full length of the assy and put the screw heads out at the outside
edge of the brush assy. They are metal tabs, brush contact points,
that screw into the rear housing assy and are located at the innermost
edge of the brush assy. How wide is the assy housing? About 1 to
1-1/4 inches. Well, that's how deep those tabs sit in from the
outside edges of the brush assy.

nb

Elle

"notbob" <notbob@nothome.com> wrote
> On 2006-02-23, Elle <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
>> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
>
>>> The two screws are under that gasket, as I recall.
>>
>> You must be right.
>
> Not so. Look at the brush assy in this part picture:
>
> http://www.maximumautoparts.com/HO_A...~Assy._mo.html

Hey, nice site and citation!

I got to an enlarged view of the actual assembly via

http://69.0.158.19/live/F402040927OES.JPG

or

http://www2.maximumautoparts.com/par...=null&dp=false

TeGGeR®

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
news:0NtLf.269$6I.80@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink. net:

> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote re the Phillips head screws
> holding the alternator brush assembly in place:
>> I cannot stress how important it is that your *stubby* Phillips
>> screwdriver
>> be a *perfect* fit in the screws. You need to make sure that you hold
>> the driver straight in line with the screws, and push really hard
>> while turning, to make sure the head doesn't ride up out of the
>> Phillips cross. If it rides out, you may round off the cross enough
>> that removal of the alternator may be the only way to remove the
>> screws.
>>
>> If the only Phillips driver you have is one size too small, DON'T USE
>> IT! Go buy the proper one.
>
> I have found that slot-end screwdrivers often work better for freeing
> Phillips head screws. Do you object to such an approach? If so, why?
>
>
>


You'll see once you get the screws exposed. They are pretty tight, and will
release with a snap.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

TeGGeR®

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
news:LwuLf.3161$VI6.273@newsread1.news.pas.earthli nk.net:

> "notbob" <notbob@nothome.com> wrote
>> On 2006-02-23, Elle <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
>>
>>>> The two screws are under that gasket, as I recall.
>>>
>>> You must be right.
>>
>> Not so. Look at the brush assy in this part picture:
>>
>> http://www.maximumautoparts.com/HO_A...~Assy._mo.html
>
> Hey, nice site and citation!



Eh, so my memory of them being *under* the gasket was wrong. Four years
will do that.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

TeGGeR®

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
news:Xns97743B2BCA50tegger@207.14.113.17:

> "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
> news:LwuLf.3161$VI6.273@newsread1.news.pas.earthli nk.net:
>
>> "notbob" <notbob@nothome.com> wrote
>>> On 2006-02-23, Elle <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
>>>
>>>>> The two screws are under that gasket, as I recall.
>>>>
>>>> You must be right.
>>>
>>> Not so. Look at the brush assy in this part picture:
>>>
>>> http://www.maximumautoparts.com/HO_A...~Assy._mo.html
>>
>> Hey, nice site and citation!
>
>
>
> Eh, so my memory of them being *under* the gasket was wrong. Four years
> will do that.
>
>


NOW I remember why my orange gasket tore! Once I had the screws out, I
incautiously pulled the brush holder off its seat, not realizing the bottom
of the gasket was going to hook on the shaft and hang up. Pop!

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Elle

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
> NOW I remember why my orange gasket tore! Once I had the screws out, I
> incautiously pulled the brush holder off its seat, not realizing the
> bottom
> of the gasket was going to hook on the shaft and hang up. Pop!

I want to double check: This "orange gasket" is not the same as the "brush
holder insulator" that the servive manual shows, is it? (I used drawings
from the UK Honda site service manuals.)

I am asking because the "brush holder insulator" (with the hole such that it
goes around the shaft) is orange in the photo from the MaximumAutoParts site
that notbob linked earlier. (Then again that site says the photo shows only
the brushes, holder, and springs.) I copied the photo to my site at
http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id14.html, with a link to Maximum's
site.

TeGGeR®

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
news:EtGLf.3316$VI6.117@newsread1.news.pas.earthli nk.net:

> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
>> NOW I remember why my orange gasket tore! Once I had the screws out,
>> I incautiously pulled the brush holder off its seat, not realizing
>> the bottom
>> of the gasket was going to hook on the shaft and hang up. Pop!
>
> I want to double check: This "orange gasket" is not the same as the
> "brush holder insulator" that the servive manual shows, is it? (I used
> drawings from the UK Honda site service manuals.)



Going from 4 year-old memory here again, so watch out...

When I got the screws out, I simply pulled the holder, thinking it was
going to pop off. I didn't know at the time that the bottom ring was
unbraced by any sort of metal support. When I pulled the top half free, the
bottom half stuck in its recess. It stretched, then tore as it came free. I
thought I was in trouble, until I realized all I had to do once I got the
new brushes on was to stuff the piece back into its recess, which I did,
just fine. Once it was back in, it didn't try to fall off again, and the
torn ends lined up well.

Since you plan on replacing the entire holder, this should not be an issue
for you.



>
> I am asking because the "brush holder insulator" (with the hole such
> that it goes around the shaft)


That was the fragile rubber ring I broke.


> is orange in the photo from the
> MaximumAutoParts site that notbob linked earlier.


So was mine.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

notbob

On 2006-02-24, Elle <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> I want to double check: This "orange gasket" is not the same as the "brush
> holder insulator" that the servive manual shows, is it?

Yes. It is.

The orange insulator/gasket/seal, whatever you want to call it, is 3
dimensional and all one piece. It seals on three planes: (1) the
large keyhole shaped surface insulates the brush assy from the end
plate cover (2) the two parallel strips, which are perpendicular to
the keyhole, lie along the edges of the opening in the cast metal tube
that surrounds the slip rings (3) the other end of those two strips is
just another semi-circular seal, on a plane parallel to the keyhole
plane, that fits the opening in the tube between the brush assy and
the rear housing. Besides insulation, all three areas of the
insulator/seal keeps grit and other crap from getting into the slip
ring cavity.

While I appreciate your efforts to provide an informative website, I
think you're getting ahead of yourself. Why don't you put this
portion of your site aside until you've actually gone in and done the
job and can see exactly how all these parts fit together and get some
real pictures. All this guessing and speculation and 3rd party
descriptions are counterproductive and inherently inaccurate. If you
just can't wait, change your brushes now. You don't have to wait till
next year. If you have over 150K miles on the car, it needs new
brushes. And, I promise, the next time I do some repair on my car,
I'll take pics and send them to you.


nb

Elle

Tegger and notbob, okay got it.

Notbob, I think there was just a minor misunderstanding between what Tegger
saw, what the manuals say, and my interpretation. No big deal, AFAIC.

My alternator's brushes are about 68k miles old. I had the alternator
replaced at the dealer at about 106k miles.

I spend a lot of time preparing for important repair jobs, so as to do them
right and not have to depend on a shop for iffy work. I also like to learn.
Hence this effort. Plus, problems with the alternator do come up a lot here.

Again, thanks folks for the input.

TeGGeR®

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
news:8nMLf.4897$UN.2744@newsread2.news.pas.earthli nk.net:

> Tegger and notbob, okay got it.
>
> Notbob, I think there was just a minor misunderstanding between what
> Tegger saw,


What I REMEMBERED seeing. Four years ago. The photos from notbob cleared
that confusion up.


> what the manuals say, and my interpretation. No big deal,
> AFAIC.
>
> My alternator's brushes are about 68k miles old. I had the alternator
> replaced at the dealer at about 106k miles.



You can leave the brushes until the charge light starts flickering. Mine
went quite a lot longer than 68K.


>
> I spend a lot of time preparing for important repair jobs, so as to do
> them right and not have to depend on a shop for iffy work.


Me too. I did a similar investigation before tackling my timing belt for
the first time years ago. I'm doing the same on-again/off-again
investigation in preparation for doing the timing belt on our Tercel this
summer, and the front bushings and shocks all-around on the Integra.

BTW, I discovered I can easily hacksaw through a 10.9 bolt in ten minutes
with one hand and a partially-worn blade. If the damper fork bolts won't
come loose for me, I'll allow a couple of hours per side and two premium
hacksaw blades each side to cut through the old bolts and bushings. A
complete front bushing set is $350Cdn including all the taxes. The rears
were much more than that.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/