Black Box
09-15-2005 | 03:17 PM
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Black Box
"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
news:Xns96D2765AF9455jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83.. .
>
> I speed;so what? I do it where it's prudent,and police and politicians
> speed,too,A lot faster than I do. Politicians alone have harmed more
> people
> driving than I have.
>
> I believe we do not need more "Big Brother" monitoring devices.
>
> IMO,police could(and should) toss out their radar and laser guns,and
> concentrate on violations that really make a difference in driving
> safety,like RLrunning,reckless driving,improper lane changes,KRETP and
> STKR.
>
> But they "enforce" where the easy money is,and where it has little effect
> on traffic safety.
Okay, what ever you think.
09-16-2005 | 03:00 AM
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Black Box
Brian Smith wrote:
>
> "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
> news:Xns96D1CAE0E110Ajyanikkuanet@129.250.170.86.. .
> >
> > Because it's more likely to be used against you than to aid you.
> > The laws regarding access to the data are not well-established
> > yet.either. (privacy issues)
>
> It would be difficult to use it against you, if you were operating your
> vehicle within the laws of the road and with due care for the weather and
> traffic conditions.
>
I have no problems with it for commercial drivers. You are doing a job and
these are essentially business records which reduce the liability of the
business. However, for personal transportation use, I believe that this
type of monitoring (or more importantly in the long run how the data is
used) is unreasonable. Yes, I drive an older car from before OBD3 which, if
I remember correctly, was the first to have the flight data recorder
functionality and I'll also keep my car running for as long as possible.
Eric
>
> "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
> news:Xns96D1CAE0E110Ajyanikkuanet@129.250.170.86.. .
> >
> > Because it's more likely to be used against you than to aid you.
> > The laws regarding access to the data are not well-established
> > yet.either. (privacy issues)
>
> It would be difficult to use it against you, if you were operating your
> vehicle within the laws of the road and with due care for the weather and
> traffic conditions.
>
I have no problems with it for commercial drivers. You are doing a job and
these are essentially business records which reduce the liability of the
business. However, for personal transportation use, I believe that this
type of monitoring (or more importantly in the long run how the data is
used) is unreasonable. Yes, I drive an older car from before OBD3 which, if
I remember correctly, was the first to have the flight data recorder
functionality and I'll also keep my car running for as long as possible.
Eric
09-16-2005 | 12:18 PM
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Black Box
"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
news:Xns96D2765AF9455jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83.. .
> I speed;so what? I do it where it's prudent,and police and politicians
> speed,too,A lot faster than I do. Politicians alone have harmed more
> people
> driving than I have.
>
If you speed, you have no legitimate beef with monitoring devices. They
simply hold you accountable for what you do.
Personally, I stopped speeding decades ago. I did some simple calculations
and decided it was a fool's game. Since then, I have only sped on one
occasion. On a pair of 12 hour legs of a long trip we fudged the speed limit
by 3-5 mph. It made about a half hour difference when we needed it most.
Stretching that to 10 mph would have exposed us to more liability than the
time gain would have justified - we were already going to arrive before
sundown.
Mike
news:Xns96D2765AF9455jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83.. .
> I speed;so what? I do it where it's prudent,and police and politicians
> speed,too,A lot faster than I do. Politicians alone have harmed more
> people
> driving than I have.
>
If you speed, you have no legitimate beef with monitoring devices. They
simply hold you accountable for what you do.
Personally, I stopped speeding decades ago. I did some simple calculations
and decided it was a fool's game. Since then, I have only sped on one
occasion. On a pair of 12 hour legs of a long trip we fudged the speed limit
by 3-5 mph. It made about a half hour difference when we needed it most.
Stretching that to 10 mph would have exposed us to more liability than the
time gain would have justified - we were already going to arrive before
sundown.
Mike
09-16-2005 | 12:29 PM
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Black Box
"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message
news:vJadnUd1P6jsbbfeRVn-gg@sedona.net...
>
> If you speed, you have no legitimate beef with monitoring devices. They
> simply hold you accountable for what you do.
>
> Personally, I stopped speeding decades ago. I did some simple calculations
> and decided it was a fool's game. Since then, I have only sped on one
> occasion. On a pair of 12 hour legs of a long trip we fudged the speed
> limit by 3-5 mph. It made about a half hour difference when we needed it
> most. Stretching that to 10 mph would have exposed us to more liability
> than the time gain would have justified - we were already going to arrive
> before sundown.
Speeding doesn't save enough time to justify doing it, compared to the
losses that it may force a person to endure for the rest of their life.
Brian
09-16-2005 | 07:40 PM
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Black Box
"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
news:vJadnUd1P6jsbbfeRVn-gg@sedona.net:
> "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
> news:Xns96D2765AF9455jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83.. .
>> I speed;so what? I do it where it's prudent,and police and
>> politicians speed,too,A lot faster than I do. Politicians alone have
>> harmed more people
>> driving than I have.
>>
> If you speed, you have no legitimate beef with monitoring devices.
> They simply hold you accountable for what you do.
They do nothing for SAFETY. In fact,they make it worse.
All they are good for is raising revenue for the states and police
departments,and even increasing employment in some PDs.(Ohio for one.)
>
> Personally, I stopped speeding decades ago. I did some simple
> calculations and decided it was a fool's game. Since then, I have only
> sped on one occasion. On a pair of 12 hour legs of a long trip we
> fudged the speed limit by 3-5 mph. It made about a half hour
> difference when we needed it most. Stretching that to 10 mph would
> have exposed us to more liability than the time gain would have
> justified - we were already going to arrive before sundown.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
If it were not for speeding,we still would have the 55MPH NMSL.
People voted with their right feet.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
news:vJadnUd1P6jsbbfeRVn-gg@sedona.net:
> "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
> news:Xns96D2765AF9455jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83.. .
>> I speed;so what? I do it where it's prudent,and police and
>> politicians speed,too,A lot faster than I do. Politicians alone have
>> harmed more people
>> driving than I have.
>>
> If you speed, you have no legitimate beef with monitoring devices.
> They simply hold you accountable for what you do.
They do nothing for SAFETY. In fact,they make it worse.
All they are good for is raising revenue for the states and police
departments,and even increasing employment in some PDs.(Ohio for one.)
>
> Personally, I stopped speeding decades ago. I did some simple
> calculations and decided it was a fool's game. Since then, I have only
> sped on one occasion. On a pair of 12 hour legs of a long trip we
> fudged the speed limit by 3-5 mph. It made about a half hour
> difference when we needed it most. Stretching that to 10 mph would
> have exposed us to more liability than the time gain would have
> justified - we were already going to arrive before sundown.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
If it were not for speeding,we still would have the 55MPH NMSL.
People voted with their right feet.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
09-16-2005 | 08:51 PM
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Black Box
"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
news:Xns96D3C7A5CD3D7jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85.. .
>
> They do nothing for SAFETY. In fact,they make it worse.
> All they are good for is raising revenue for the states and police
> departments,and even increasing employment in some PDs.(Ohio for one.)
That's a crock.
> If it were not for speeding,we still would have the 55MPH NMSL.
> People voted with their right feet.
To have the right to kill and maim law abiding citizens.
09-16-2005 | 09:38 PM
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Black Box
"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
news:Xns96D3C7A5CD3D7jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85.. .
> If it were not for speeding,we still would have the 55MPH NMSL.
> People voted with their right feet.
>
<begin rant>
Getting way more OT here - the "double nickle" succumbed to pressure from
the states, sparked by the short-lived and controversial governor of
Arizona, Evan Mecham. Ev was widely portrayed as incompetent, even racist,
by the Arizona Republic and other Arizona power brokers but he held his
ground on the federal extortion that withheld federal highway funds from
states that failed to enforce the federal mandate. Within weeks other
governors joined in and Washington saw a rebellion in the works, one that
would land a lot of incumbents on the street if they didn't back down.
Governor Mecham was an independent who prevailed against party hacks
Republican Burton Barr (shudder!) and Democrat Carolyn Warner (double
shudder!) He was honest enough - more than any Arizona governor in memory
except Rose Mofford - but he lacked the political savvy to defend himself
against the Pulliam Press. (There was bad blood between Pulliam and Mecham,
dating back to when Mecham published a competing paper.) He was reviled for
overturning the outgoing governor's declaration of MLK's birthday as a legal
holiday, although he pointed out the governor's office has no legitimate
power to make fiscal policy. He was branded a racist by the Arizona
Republic, which reported the fact that he was on a school panel that
approved a textbook that mentioned young black children were once referred
to as "pickaninnies" - and then so distorted their own story in followups
that most Arizonans believed he had actually used the term himself.
Ultimately he was impeached for violating campaign finance laws, when an
irregularity was turned up that wouldn't merit a yawn from a Republican or
Democrat. With both Republicans and Democrats voting on the impeachment, no
independent stood a chance. (Ya gotta hand it to Arizona - the corruption is
right out in the open here!) His political carcass hangs in the state
capitol to warn upstarts: this is a two party system.
<end rant>
news:Xns96D3C7A5CD3D7jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85.. .
> If it were not for speeding,we still would have the 55MPH NMSL.
> People voted with their right feet.
>
<begin rant>
Getting way more OT here - the "double nickle" succumbed to pressure from
the states, sparked by the short-lived and controversial governor of
Arizona, Evan Mecham. Ev was widely portrayed as incompetent, even racist,
by the Arizona Republic and other Arizona power brokers but he held his
ground on the federal extortion that withheld federal highway funds from
states that failed to enforce the federal mandate. Within weeks other
governors joined in and Washington saw a rebellion in the works, one that
would land a lot of incumbents on the street if they didn't back down.
Governor Mecham was an independent who prevailed against party hacks
Republican Burton Barr (shudder!) and Democrat Carolyn Warner (double
shudder!) He was honest enough - more than any Arizona governor in memory
except Rose Mofford - but he lacked the political savvy to defend himself
against the Pulliam Press. (There was bad blood between Pulliam and Mecham,
dating back to when Mecham published a competing paper.) He was reviled for
overturning the outgoing governor's declaration of MLK's birthday as a legal
holiday, although he pointed out the governor's office has no legitimate
power to make fiscal policy. He was branded a racist by the Arizona
Republic, which reported the fact that he was on a school panel that
approved a textbook that mentioned young black children were once referred
to as "pickaninnies" - and then so distorted their own story in followups
that most Arizonans believed he had actually used the term himself.
Ultimately he was impeached for violating campaign finance laws, when an
irregularity was turned up that wouldn't merit a yawn from a Republican or
Democrat. With both Republicans and Democrats voting on the impeachment, no
independent stood a chance. (Ya gotta hand it to Arizona - the corruption is
right out in the open here!) His political carcass hangs in the state
capitol to warn upstarts: this is a two party system.
<end rant>
09-17-2005 | 01:03 PM
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Black Box
"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
news:Ce-dnfG57NAM7rbeRVn-jA@sedona.net:
> "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
> news:Xns96D3C7A5CD3D7jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85.. .
>> If it were not for speeding,we still would have the 55MPH NMSL.
>> People voted with their right feet.
>>
><begin rant>
> Getting way more OT here - the "double nickle" succumbed to pressure
> from the states, sparked by the short-lived and controversial governor
> of Arizona, Evan Mecham. Ev was widely portrayed as incompetent, even
> racist, by the Arizona Republic and other Arizona power brokers but he
> held his ground on the federal extortion that withheld federal highway
> funds from states that failed to enforce the federal mandate. Within
> weeks other governors joined in and Washington saw a rebellion in the
> works, one that would land a lot of incumbents on the street if they
> didn't back down.
>
> Governor Mecham was an independent who prevailed against party hacks
> Republican Burton Barr (shudder!) and Democrat Carolyn Warner (double
> shudder!) He was honest enough - more than any Arizona governor in
> memory except Rose Mofford - but he lacked the political savvy to
> defend himself against the Pulliam Press. (There was bad blood between
> Pulliam and Mecham, dating back to when Mecham published a competing
> paper.) He was reviled for overturning the outgoing governor's
> declaration of MLK's birthday as a legal holiday, although he pointed
> out the governor's office has no legitimate power to make fiscal
> policy. He was branded a racist by the Arizona Republic, which
> reported the fact that he was on a school panel that approved a
> textbook that mentioned young black children were once referred to as
> "pickaninnies" - and then so distorted their own story in followups
> that most Arizonans believed he had actually used the term himself.
> Ultimately he was impeached for violating campaign finance laws, when
> an irregularity was turned up that wouldn't merit a yawn from a
> Republican or Democrat. With both Republicans and Democrats voting on
> the impeachment, no independent stood a chance. (Ya gotta hand it to
> Arizona - the corruption is right out in the open here!) His political
> carcass hangs in the state capitol to warn upstarts: this is a two
> party system.
>
><end rant>
>
>
>
Discount it all you want,but the MASSIVE disobediance of the 55 NMSL by
ordinary drivers was the reason it went away.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
news:Ce-dnfG57NAM7rbeRVn-jA@sedona.net:
> "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
> news:Xns96D3C7A5CD3D7jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85.. .
>> If it were not for speeding,we still would have the 55MPH NMSL.
>> People voted with their right feet.
>>
><begin rant>
> Getting way more OT here - the "double nickle" succumbed to pressure
> from the states, sparked by the short-lived and controversial governor
> of Arizona, Evan Mecham. Ev was widely portrayed as incompetent, even
> racist, by the Arizona Republic and other Arizona power brokers but he
> held his ground on the federal extortion that withheld federal highway
> funds from states that failed to enforce the federal mandate. Within
> weeks other governors joined in and Washington saw a rebellion in the
> works, one that would land a lot of incumbents on the street if they
> didn't back down.
>
> Governor Mecham was an independent who prevailed against party hacks
> Republican Burton Barr (shudder!) and Democrat Carolyn Warner (double
> shudder!) He was honest enough - more than any Arizona governor in
> memory except Rose Mofford - but he lacked the political savvy to
> defend himself against the Pulliam Press. (There was bad blood between
> Pulliam and Mecham, dating back to when Mecham published a competing
> paper.) He was reviled for overturning the outgoing governor's
> declaration of MLK's birthday as a legal holiday, although he pointed
> out the governor's office has no legitimate power to make fiscal
> policy. He was branded a racist by the Arizona Republic, which
> reported the fact that he was on a school panel that approved a
> textbook that mentioned young black children were once referred to as
> "pickaninnies" - and then so distorted their own story in followups
> that most Arizonans believed he had actually used the term himself.
> Ultimately he was impeached for violating campaign finance laws, when
> an irregularity was turned up that wouldn't merit a yawn from a
> Republican or Democrat. With both Republicans and Democrats voting on
> the impeachment, no independent stood a chance. (Ya gotta hand it to
> Arizona - the corruption is right out in the open here!) His political
> carcass hangs in the state capitol to warn upstarts: this is a two
> party system.
>
><end rant>
>
>
>
Discount it all you want,but the MASSIVE disobediance of the 55 NMSL by
ordinary drivers was the reason it went away.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
09-17-2005 | 02:05 PM
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Black Box
"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
news:Xns96D4844DA2EB4jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84.. .
>
> Discount it all you want,but the MASSIVE disobediance of the 55 NMSL by
> ordinary drivers was the reason it went away.
>
> --
I don't think so, because violations of the 55 mph limit were a revenue
source. The more it was violated (as long as the citations were written, to
collect the fines and satisfy the feds enforcement was taking place) the
more the states profited and the greater the incentive to continue the
program. Political pressure to repeal the limit threatened the future of too
many politicians, apart from whether the law was actually obeyed.
Mike
news:Xns96D4844DA2EB4jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84.. .
>
> Discount it all you want,but the MASSIVE disobediance of the 55 NMSL by
> ordinary drivers was the reason it went away.
>
> --
I don't think so, because violations of the 55 mph limit were a revenue
source. The more it was violated (as long as the citations were written, to
collect the fines and satisfy the feds enforcement was taking place) the
more the states profited and the greater the incentive to continue the
program. Political pressure to repeal the limit threatened the future of too
many politicians, apart from whether the law was actually obeyed.
Mike
09-17-2005 | 10:38 PM
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Black Box
Guys - I started this dialog to see if anyone was aware of any website that
would tell you if the car had a black box. I don't want a box in my car and
I don't care to debate it here and justify. Same reason I don't want the
grocery store keeping a log of what I buy or the cable company what I watch.
Why do we need all this info unless we were being paid for it. Do your own
searches, black box have caused a lot of heart burn for people in wrecks.
So if anyone has any more info please post it ;-)
"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message news:432A6DA5.B7C84F0F@spam.now...
> Brian Smith wrote:
>>
>> "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
>> news:Xns96D1CAE0E110Ajyanikkuanet@129.250.170.86.. .
>> >
>> > Because it's more likely to be used against you than to aid you.
>> > The laws regarding access to the data are not well-established
>> > yet.either. (privacy issues)
>>
>> It would be difficult to use it against you, if you were operating your
>> vehicle within the laws of the road and with due care for the weather and
>> traffic conditions.
>>
>
> I have no problems with it for commercial drivers. You are doing a job
> and
> these are essentially business records which reduce the liability of the
> business. However, for personal transportation use, I believe that this
> type of monitoring (or more importantly in the long run how the data is
> used) is unreasonable. Yes, I drive an older car from before OBD3 which,
> if
> I remember correctly, was the first to have the flight data recorder
> functionality and I'll also keep my car running for as long as possible.
>
> Eric
would tell you if the car had a black box. I don't want a box in my car and
I don't care to debate it here and justify. Same reason I don't want the
grocery store keeping a log of what I buy or the cable company what I watch.
Why do we need all this info unless we were being paid for it. Do your own
searches, black box have caused a lot of heart burn for people in wrecks.
So if anyone has any more info please post it ;-)
"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message news:432A6DA5.B7C84F0F@spam.now...
> Brian Smith wrote:
>>
>> "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
>> news:Xns96D1CAE0E110Ajyanikkuanet@129.250.170.86.. .
>> >
>> > Because it's more likely to be used against you than to aid you.
>> > The laws regarding access to the data are not well-established
>> > yet.either. (privacy issues)
>>
>> It would be difficult to use it against you, if you were operating your
>> vehicle within the laws of the road and with due care for the weather and
>> traffic conditions.
>>
>
> I have no problems with it for commercial drivers. You are doing a job
> and
> these are essentially business records which reduce the liability of the
> business. However, for personal transportation use, I believe that this
> type of monitoring (or more importantly in the long run how the data is
> used) is unreasonable. Yes, I drive an older car from before OBD3 which,
> if
> I remember correctly, was the first to have the flight data recorder
> functionality and I'll also keep my car running for as long as possible.
>
> Eric
09-18-2005 | 01:00 AM
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Black Box
RA wrote:
> Guys - I started this dialog to see if anyone was aware of any website that
> would tell you if the car had a black box. I don't want a box in my car and
> I don't care to debate it here and justify. Same reason I don't want the
> grocery store keeping a log of what I buy or the cable company what I watch.
> Why do we need all this info unless we were being paid for it. Do your own
> searches, black box have caused a lot of heart burn for people in wrecks.
>
> So if anyone has any more info please post it ;-)
the only way is to go for an old car with obdc0 or carburetion. most
everything else keeps a record of anywhere between the last few seconds
to some minutes of data.
go to a nerd site like slashdot.org and search for some [informative]
techy threads on this.
>
>
>
> "Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message news:432A6DA5.B7C84F0F@spam.now...
>
>>Brian Smith wrote:
>>
>>>"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
>>>news:Xns96D1CAE0E110Ajyanikkuanet@129.250.170.8 6...
>>>
>>>>Because it's more likely to be used against you than to aid you.
>>>>The laws regarding access to the data are not well-established
>>>>yet.either. (privacy issues)
>>>
>>>It would be difficult to use it against you, if you were operating your
>>>vehicle within the laws of the road and with due care for the weather and
>>>traffic conditions.
>>>
>>
>>I have no problems with it for commercial drivers. You are doing a job
>>and
>>these are essentially business records which reduce the liability of the
>>business. However, for personal transportation use, I believe that this
>>type of monitoring (or more importantly in the long run how the data is
>>used) is unreasonable. Yes, I drive an older car from before OBD3 which,
>>if
>>I remember correctly, was the first to have the flight data recorder
>>functionality and I'll also keep my car running for as long as possible.
>>
>>Eric
>
>
>
> Guys - I started this dialog to see if anyone was aware of any website that
> would tell you if the car had a black box. I don't want a box in my car and
> I don't care to debate it here and justify. Same reason I don't want the
> grocery store keeping a log of what I buy or the cable company what I watch.
> Why do we need all this info unless we were being paid for it. Do your own
> searches, black box have caused a lot of heart burn for people in wrecks.
>
> So if anyone has any more info please post it ;-)
the only way is to go for an old car with obdc0 or carburetion. most
everything else keeps a record of anywhere between the last few seconds
to some minutes of data.
go to a nerd site like slashdot.org and search for some [informative]
techy threads on this.
>
>
>
> "Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message news:432A6DA5.B7C84F0F@spam.now...
>
>>Brian Smith wrote:
>>
>>>"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
>>>news:Xns96D1CAE0E110Ajyanikkuanet@129.250.170.8 6...
>>>
>>>>Because it's more likely to be used against you than to aid you.
>>>>The laws regarding access to the data are not well-established
>>>>yet.either. (privacy issues)
>>>
>>>It would be difficult to use it against you, if you were operating your
>>>vehicle within the laws of the road and with due care for the weather and
>>>traffic conditions.
>>>
>>
>>I have no problems with it for commercial drivers. You are doing a job
>>and
>>these are essentially business records which reduce the liability of the
>>business. However, for personal transportation use, I believe that this
>>type of monitoring (or more importantly in the long run how the data is
>>used) is unreasonable. Yes, I drive an older car from before OBD3 which,
>>if
>>I remember correctly, was the first to have the flight data recorder
>>functionality and I'll also keep my car running for as long as possible.
>>
>>Eric
>
>
>
09-18-2005 | 01:01 AM
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Black Box
"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
news
vWdnd-hvctqx7HeRVn-rw@sedona.net:
> "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
> news:Xns96D4844DA2EB4jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84.. .
>>
>> Discount it all you want,but the MASSIVE disobediance of the 55 NMSL
>> by ordinary drivers was the reason it went away.
>>
>> --
> I don't think so, because violations of the 55 mph limit were a
> revenue source. The more it was violated (as long as the citations
> were written, to collect the fines and satisfy the feds enforcement
> was taking place) the more the states profited and the greater the
> incentive to continue the program. Political pressure to repeal the
> limit threatened the future of too many politicians, apart from
> whether the law was actually obeyed.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
That is -where- the political pressure came from;all the people who got
ticketed.It sure didn't come from all the blindly obedient drones.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
news
vWdnd-hvctqx7HeRVn-rw@sedona.net:> "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
> news:Xns96D4844DA2EB4jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84.. .
>>
>> Discount it all you want,but the MASSIVE disobediance of the 55 NMSL
>> by ordinary drivers was the reason it went away.
>>
>> --
> I don't think so, because violations of the 55 mph limit were a
> revenue source. The more it was violated (as long as the citations
> were written, to collect the fines and satisfy the feds enforcement
> was taking place) the more the states profited and the greater the
> incentive to continue the program. Political pressure to repeal the
> limit threatened the future of too many politicians, apart from
> whether the law was actually obeyed.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
That is -where- the political pressure came from;all the people who got
ticketed.It sure didn't come from all the blindly obedient drones.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
09-18-2005 | 08:06 AM
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Black Box
"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
news:Xns96D59ECB9808jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.86...
>
> That is -where- the political pressure came from;all the people who got
> ticketed.It sure didn't come from all the blindly obedient drones.
By using the term 'blindly obedient drones'. Are you referring to the
drivers that prefer to keep their money in their pockets (instead of funding
the annual policeman's ball) and continue to drive where they want and need
to go every day of the year?
Brian
09-18-2005 | 11:26 AM
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Black Box
"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
news:Xns96D59ECB9808jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.86...
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
> newsvWdnd-hvctqx7HeRVn-rw@sedona.net:
>
>> "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
>> news:Xns96D4844DA2EB4jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84.. .
>>>
>>> Discount it all you want,but the MASSIVE disobediance of the 55 NMSL
>>> by ordinary drivers was the reason it went away.
>>>
>>> --
>> I don't think so, because violations of the 55 mph limit were a
>> revenue source. The more it was violated (as long as the citations
>> were written, to collect the fines and satisfy the feds enforcement
>> was taking place) the more the states profited and the greater the
>> incentive to continue the program. Political pressure to repeal the
>> limit threatened the future of too many politicians, apart from
>> whether the law was actually obeyed.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>
> That is -where- the political pressure came from;all the people who got
> ticketed.It sure didn't come from all the blindly obedient drones.
> --
> Jim Yanik
Disobedience and disapproval are not synonymous; I disagree with our tax
structure but I pay my taxes. I was a "blindly obedient drone" because I
didn't speed, and nobody asked me my opinion. But you can bet the speeders
who were ticketed only "fed the beast" by making it economically attractive
to retain the limit.
You suggest by the term "all" that the majority obeyed the limit, but that
undercuts your premise. Effective political pressure requires a clear
majority (otherwise re-election would not be an issue), so if obedience were
the measure rather than public opinion we would still be driving 55.
Mike
news:Xns96D59ECB9808jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.86...
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
> news
vWdnd-hvctqx7HeRVn-rw@sedona.net:>
>> "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
>> news:Xns96D4844DA2EB4jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84.. .
>>>
>>> Discount it all you want,but the MASSIVE disobediance of the 55 NMSL
>>> by ordinary drivers was the reason it went away.
>>>
>>> --
>> I don't think so, because violations of the 55 mph limit were a
>> revenue source. The more it was violated (as long as the citations
>> were written, to collect the fines and satisfy the feds enforcement
>> was taking place) the more the states profited and the greater the
>> incentive to continue the program. Political pressure to repeal the
>> limit threatened the future of too many politicians, apart from
>> whether the law was actually obeyed.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>
> That is -where- the political pressure came from;all the people who got
> ticketed.It sure didn't come from all the blindly obedient drones.
> --
> Jim Yanik
Disobedience and disapproval are not synonymous; I disagree with our tax
structure but I pay my taxes. I was a "blindly obedient drone" because I
didn't speed, and nobody asked me my opinion. But you can bet the speeders
who were ticketed only "fed the beast" by making it economically attractive
to retain the limit.
You suggest by the term "all" that the majority obeyed the limit, but that
undercuts your premise. Effective political pressure requires a clear
majority (otherwise re-election would not be an issue), so if obedience were
the measure rather than public opinion we would still be driving 55.
Mike
09-18-2005 | 03:58 PM
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Black Box
RA wrote:
>
> Guys - I started this dialog to see if anyone was aware of any website
> that would tell you if the car had a black box. I don't want a box in my
> car and I don't care to debate it here and justify. Same reason I don't
> want the grocery store keeping a log of what I buy or the cable company
> what I watch. Why do we need all this info unless we were being paid for
> it. Do your own searches, black box have caused a lot of heart burn for
> people in wrecks.
>
> So if anyone has any more info please post it ;-)
>
If I remember correctly, it's anything '96 and newer however you may need to
check individual makes and models.
Eric
>
> Guys - I started this dialog to see if anyone was aware of any website
> that would tell you if the car had a black box. I don't want a box in my
> car and I don't care to debate it here and justify. Same reason I don't
> want the grocery store keeping a log of what I buy or the cable company
> what I watch. Why do we need all this info unless we were being paid for
> it. Do your own searches, black box have caused a lot of heart burn for
> people in wrecks.
>
> So if anyone has any more info please post it ;-)
>
If I remember correctly, it's anything '96 and newer however you may need to
check individual makes and models.
Eric