Can Anything Stop Toyota?
#76
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
Tegger® wrote:
>
> I wouldn't necessarily blame the automakers, though. They are under almost
> insane pressures to cut costs while satisfying a bewildering and very
> expensive array of government mandates.
Sorry, but I disagree. ALL manufacturers are selling cars in the same
market and regulatory jungle, so you can't use that as a reason why do
what they do to quality. Price is obviously a reflection of quality, but
I dare say that dollar for dollar the US Big 3 are not delivering the
same overall quality as their foreign competitors. Look at Toyota sales!
>
> I wouldn't necessarily blame the automakers, though. They are under almost
> insane pressures to cut costs while satisfying a bewildering and very
> expensive array of government mandates.
Sorry, but I disagree. ALL manufacturers are selling cars in the same
market and regulatory jungle, so you can't use that as a reason why do
what they do to quality. Price is obviously a reflection of quality, but
I dare say that dollar for dollar the US Big 3 are not delivering the
same overall quality as their foreign competitors. Look at Toyota sales!
#77
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
Tegger® wrote:
>
> I wouldn't necessarily blame the automakers, though. They are under almost
> insane pressures to cut costs while satisfying a bewildering and very
> expensive array of government mandates.
Sorry, but I disagree. ALL manufacturers are selling cars in the same
market and regulatory jungle, so you can't use that as a reason why do
what they do to quality. Price is obviously a reflection of quality, but
I dare say that dollar for dollar the US Big 3 are not delivering the
same overall quality as their foreign competitors. Look at Toyota sales!
>
> I wouldn't necessarily blame the automakers, though. They are under almost
> insane pressures to cut costs while satisfying a bewildering and very
> expensive array of government mandates.
Sorry, but I disagree. ALL manufacturers are selling cars in the same
market and regulatory jungle, so you can't use that as a reason why do
what they do to quality. Price is obviously a reflection of quality, but
I dare say that dollar for dollar the US Big 3 are not delivering the
same overall quality as their foreign competitors. Look at Toyota sales!
#78
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
Philip® wrote:
> In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
> Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
>
>>>Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built in a
>>>Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture. You know
>>>what happens when GM and UAW get together to build a vehicle.
>
>
> What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
> bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.
>
PHILIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please be more carefull when you snip posts!
I DID NOT MAKE THAT COMMENT, I REPLIED TO THAT QUOTE IN MY POST. YOU
SNIPPED THE MESSAGE AND ADDED YOU COMMENT RIGHT AFTER MY NAME AND EMAIL.
If you go back to my original post this is very clear.
> In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
> Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
>
>>>Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built in a
>>>Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture. You know
>>>what happens when GM and UAW get together to build a vehicle.
>
>
> What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
> bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.
>
PHILIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please be more carefull when you snip posts!
I DID NOT MAKE THAT COMMENT, I REPLIED TO THAT QUOTE IN MY POST. YOU
SNIPPED THE MESSAGE AND ADDED YOU COMMENT RIGHT AFTER MY NAME AND EMAIL.
If you go back to my original post this is very clear.
#79
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
Philip® wrote:
> In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
> Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
>
>>>Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built in a
>>>Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture. You know
>>>what happens when GM and UAW get together to build a vehicle.
>
>
> What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
> bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.
>
PHILIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please be more carefull when you snip posts!
I DID NOT MAKE THAT COMMENT, I REPLIED TO THAT QUOTE IN MY POST. YOU
SNIPPED THE MESSAGE AND ADDED YOU COMMENT RIGHT AFTER MY NAME AND EMAIL.
If you go back to my original post this is very clear.
> In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
> Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
>
>>>Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built in a
>>>Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture. You know
>>>what happens when GM and UAW get together to build a vehicle.
>
>
> What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
> bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.
>
PHILIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please be more carefull when you snip posts!
I DID NOT MAKE THAT COMMENT, I REPLIED TO THAT QUOTE IN MY POST. YOU
SNIPPED THE MESSAGE AND ADDED YOU COMMENT RIGHT AFTER MY NAME AND EMAIL.
If you go back to my original post this is very clear.
#80
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
Philip® wrote:
> In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
> Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
>
>>>Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built in a
>>>Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture. You know
>>>what happens when GM and UAW get together to build a vehicle.
>
>
> What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
> bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.
>
PHILIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please be more carefull when you snip posts!
I DID NOT MAKE THAT COMMENT, I REPLIED TO THAT QUOTE IN MY POST. YOU
SNIPPED THE MESSAGE AND ADDED YOU COMMENT RIGHT AFTER MY NAME AND EMAIL.
If you go back to my original post this is very clear.
> In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
> Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
>
>>>Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built in a
>>>Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture. You know
>>>what happens when GM and UAW get together to build a vehicle.
>
>
> What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
> bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.
>
PHILIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please be more carefull when you snip posts!
I DID NOT MAKE THAT COMMENT, I REPLIED TO THAT QUOTE IN MY POST. YOU
SNIPPED THE MESSAGE AND ADDED YOU COMMENT RIGHT AFTER MY NAME AND EMAIL.
If you go back to my original post this is very clear.
#81
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
Philip® wrote:
> In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
> Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
>
>>>Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built in a
>>>Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture. You know
>>>what happens when GM and UAW get together to build a vehicle.
>
>
> What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
> bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.
>
PHILIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please be more carefull when you snip posts!
I DID NOT MAKE THAT COMMENT, I REPLIED TO THAT QUOTE IN MY POST. YOU
SNIPPED THE MESSAGE AND ADDED YOU COMMENT RIGHT AFTER MY NAME AND EMAIL.
If you go back to my original post this is very clear.
> In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
> Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
>
>>>Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built in a
>>>Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture. You know
>>>what happens when GM and UAW get together to build a vehicle.
>
>
> What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
> bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.
>
PHILIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please be more carefull when you snip posts!
I DID NOT MAKE THAT COMMENT, I REPLIED TO THAT QUOTE IN MY POST. YOU
SNIPPED THE MESSAGE AND ADDED YOU COMMENT RIGHT AFTER MY NAME AND EMAIL.
If you go back to my original post this is very clear.
#82
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
In news:FfidnWGcU--VsS6iRVn-gw@comcast.com,
HarrierAWD <harrierawd@giganews.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> In article
> <6DCsb.11036$6c3.4720@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink .net>, 1chip-
> state1@earthlink.net.invalid says...
> >
> > In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
> > Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> > > > Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built
> > > > in a Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture.
> > > > You know what happens when GM and UAW get together to build
> > > > a vehicle.
> >
> > What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
> > bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.
> >
> > I bought new a 1990 Geo Prizm and in the subsequent 12 years, put
> > 285,000 miles on it. The ONLY major repair was the automatic
> > transmission at 180,000 miles and one water pump at 160,000
> > miles. Sold the car for $1000. That was a NUMMI built car.
> > Following that impressive ownership, I replaced the Prizm with
> > a 2003 Corolla... also a NUMMI built car. So far, the only
> > failure has been a rear wheel bearing assembly at 15,000 miles
> > (warranty). I have put 31,800 miles on the car in 14½ months.
> >
> > Someday, DO tour the NUMMI plant like I did. NUMMI builds cars
> > and trucks per Toyota's blueprint. NUMMI is a
> > builder/assembler.... not a designer.
>
>
> Why would you want to tour an NUMMI plant??? Can't afford
> Disneyland? NUMMI being the builder is exactly the problem.
> Having rear wheel bearing failed at only 15,000 miles speaks for
> itself about the build quality.
In fact, Disneyland is within 20 minutes travel time and holds no
interest at my age. The NUMMI plant is on the way to a relative in
Bay Point (45 mi east of the Bay Area). The foolishness in your
observation is revealed in the fact that the wheel bearing is a
"sourced" part AND that 6 dealers in my area did not even stock the
part as normal inventory. That should suggest to you something other
than the conclusion you drew.
>
> Fact is that Toyota's non-union shops in the *U.S.* continue to
> churn out quality automobiles, while GM/UAW shops continue to
> crank out craps. That's the fact, period. Consumer Reports
> annual survey is far more credible than your story.
GM is the landlord and primary customer, Toyota is the product
designer and production manager, and NUMMI is the legal entity acting
as liaison between GM, Toyota, UAW, and the IRS. I toured NUMMI in
June of 2002 and purchased the Corolla in Sept of 2002. Liked what I
saw over all. I've also toured the Ford plant in Atlanta (was a
Taurus plant in 1989) and the Corvette plant in Bowling Green, KY.
The Ford tour did nothing to favorably impress me. Come to think of
it, I also had several "backdoor tours" of the GM plant in South Gate
.... years ago (1978?). Yikes! You are making accusations that are
not universal and particularly so regarding NUMMI. Perhaps you don't
know the history of that plant when GM ran it ... and finally had to
close it down. Cling to your bigotry, it's your comfortable zone.
--
~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"
HarrierAWD <harrierawd@giganews.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> In article
> <6DCsb.11036$6c3.4720@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink .net>, 1chip-
> state1@earthlink.net.invalid says...
> >
> > In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
> > Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> > > > Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built
> > > > in a Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture.
> > > > You know what happens when GM and UAW get together to build
> > > > a vehicle.
> >
> > What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
> > bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.
> >
> > I bought new a 1990 Geo Prizm and in the subsequent 12 years, put
> > 285,000 miles on it. The ONLY major repair was the automatic
> > transmission at 180,000 miles and one water pump at 160,000
> > miles. Sold the car for $1000. That was a NUMMI built car.
> > Following that impressive ownership, I replaced the Prizm with
> > a 2003 Corolla... also a NUMMI built car. So far, the only
> > failure has been a rear wheel bearing assembly at 15,000 miles
> > (warranty). I have put 31,800 miles on the car in 14½ months.
> >
> > Someday, DO tour the NUMMI plant like I did. NUMMI builds cars
> > and trucks per Toyota's blueprint. NUMMI is a
> > builder/assembler.... not a designer.
>
>
> Why would you want to tour an NUMMI plant??? Can't afford
> Disneyland? NUMMI being the builder is exactly the problem.
> Having rear wheel bearing failed at only 15,000 miles speaks for
> itself about the build quality.
In fact, Disneyland is within 20 minutes travel time and holds no
interest at my age. The NUMMI plant is on the way to a relative in
Bay Point (45 mi east of the Bay Area). The foolishness in your
observation is revealed in the fact that the wheel bearing is a
"sourced" part AND that 6 dealers in my area did not even stock the
part as normal inventory. That should suggest to you something other
than the conclusion you drew.
>
> Fact is that Toyota's non-union shops in the *U.S.* continue to
> churn out quality automobiles, while GM/UAW shops continue to
> crank out craps. That's the fact, period. Consumer Reports
> annual survey is far more credible than your story.
GM is the landlord and primary customer, Toyota is the product
designer and production manager, and NUMMI is the legal entity acting
as liaison between GM, Toyota, UAW, and the IRS. I toured NUMMI in
June of 2002 and purchased the Corolla in Sept of 2002. Liked what I
saw over all. I've also toured the Ford plant in Atlanta (was a
Taurus plant in 1989) and the Corvette plant in Bowling Green, KY.
The Ford tour did nothing to favorably impress me. Come to think of
it, I also had several "backdoor tours" of the GM plant in South Gate
.... years ago (1978?). Yikes! You are making accusations that are
not universal and particularly so regarding NUMMI. Perhaps you don't
know the history of that plant when GM ran it ... and finally had to
close it down. Cling to your bigotry, it's your comfortable zone.
--
~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"
#83
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
In news:FfidnWGcU--VsS6iRVn-gw@comcast.com,
HarrierAWD <harrierawd@giganews.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> In article
> <6DCsb.11036$6c3.4720@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink .net>, 1chip-
> state1@earthlink.net.invalid says...
> >
> > In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
> > Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> > > > Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built
> > > > in a Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture.
> > > > You know what happens when GM and UAW get together to build
> > > > a vehicle.
> >
> > What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
> > bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.
> >
> > I bought new a 1990 Geo Prizm and in the subsequent 12 years, put
> > 285,000 miles on it. The ONLY major repair was the automatic
> > transmission at 180,000 miles and one water pump at 160,000
> > miles. Sold the car for $1000. That was a NUMMI built car.
> > Following that impressive ownership, I replaced the Prizm with
> > a 2003 Corolla... also a NUMMI built car. So far, the only
> > failure has been a rear wheel bearing assembly at 15,000 miles
> > (warranty). I have put 31,800 miles on the car in 14½ months.
> >
> > Someday, DO tour the NUMMI plant like I did. NUMMI builds cars
> > and trucks per Toyota's blueprint. NUMMI is a
> > builder/assembler.... not a designer.
>
>
> Why would you want to tour an NUMMI plant??? Can't afford
> Disneyland? NUMMI being the builder is exactly the problem.
> Having rear wheel bearing failed at only 15,000 miles speaks for
> itself about the build quality.
In fact, Disneyland is within 20 minutes travel time and holds no
interest at my age. The NUMMI plant is on the way to a relative in
Bay Point (45 mi east of the Bay Area). The foolishness in your
observation is revealed in the fact that the wheel bearing is a
"sourced" part AND that 6 dealers in my area did not even stock the
part as normal inventory. That should suggest to you something other
than the conclusion you drew.
>
> Fact is that Toyota's non-union shops in the *U.S.* continue to
> churn out quality automobiles, while GM/UAW shops continue to
> crank out craps. That's the fact, period. Consumer Reports
> annual survey is far more credible than your story.
GM is the landlord and primary customer, Toyota is the product
designer and production manager, and NUMMI is the legal entity acting
as liaison between GM, Toyota, UAW, and the IRS. I toured NUMMI in
June of 2002 and purchased the Corolla in Sept of 2002. Liked what I
saw over all. I've also toured the Ford plant in Atlanta (was a
Taurus plant in 1989) and the Corvette plant in Bowling Green, KY.
The Ford tour did nothing to favorably impress me. Come to think of
it, I also had several "backdoor tours" of the GM plant in South Gate
.... years ago (1978?). Yikes! You are making accusations that are
not universal and particularly so regarding NUMMI. Perhaps you don't
know the history of that plant when GM ran it ... and finally had to
close it down. Cling to your bigotry, it's your comfortable zone.
--
~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"
HarrierAWD <harrierawd@giganews.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> In article
> <6DCsb.11036$6c3.4720@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink .net>, 1chip-
> state1@earthlink.net.invalid says...
> >
> > In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
> > Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> > > > Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built
> > > > in a Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture.
> > > > You know what happens when GM and UAW get together to build
> > > > a vehicle.
> >
> > What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
> > bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.
> >
> > I bought new a 1990 Geo Prizm and in the subsequent 12 years, put
> > 285,000 miles on it. The ONLY major repair was the automatic
> > transmission at 180,000 miles and one water pump at 160,000
> > miles. Sold the car for $1000. That was a NUMMI built car.
> > Following that impressive ownership, I replaced the Prizm with
> > a 2003 Corolla... also a NUMMI built car. So far, the only
> > failure has been a rear wheel bearing assembly at 15,000 miles
> > (warranty). I have put 31,800 miles on the car in 14½ months.
> >
> > Someday, DO tour the NUMMI plant like I did. NUMMI builds cars
> > and trucks per Toyota's blueprint. NUMMI is a
> > builder/assembler.... not a designer.
>
>
> Why would you want to tour an NUMMI plant??? Can't afford
> Disneyland? NUMMI being the builder is exactly the problem.
> Having rear wheel bearing failed at only 15,000 miles speaks for
> itself about the build quality.
In fact, Disneyland is within 20 minutes travel time and holds no
interest at my age. The NUMMI plant is on the way to a relative in
Bay Point (45 mi east of the Bay Area). The foolishness in your
observation is revealed in the fact that the wheel bearing is a
"sourced" part AND that 6 dealers in my area did not even stock the
part as normal inventory. That should suggest to you something other
than the conclusion you drew.
>
> Fact is that Toyota's non-union shops in the *U.S.* continue to
> churn out quality automobiles, while GM/UAW shops continue to
> crank out craps. That's the fact, period. Consumer Reports
> annual survey is far more credible than your story.
GM is the landlord and primary customer, Toyota is the product
designer and production manager, and NUMMI is the legal entity acting
as liaison between GM, Toyota, UAW, and the IRS. I toured NUMMI in
June of 2002 and purchased the Corolla in Sept of 2002. Liked what I
saw over all. I've also toured the Ford plant in Atlanta (was a
Taurus plant in 1989) and the Corvette plant in Bowling Green, KY.
The Ford tour did nothing to favorably impress me. Come to think of
it, I also had several "backdoor tours" of the GM plant in South Gate
.... years ago (1978?). Yikes! You are making accusations that are
not universal and particularly so regarding NUMMI. Perhaps you don't
know the history of that plant when GM ran it ... and finally had to
close it down. Cling to your bigotry, it's your comfortable zone.
--
~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"
#84
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
In news:FfidnWGcU--VsS6iRVn-gw@comcast.com,
HarrierAWD <harrierawd@giganews.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> In article
> <6DCsb.11036$6c3.4720@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink .net>, 1chip-
> state1@earthlink.net.invalid says...
> >
> > In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
> > Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> > > > Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built
> > > > in a Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture.
> > > > You know what happens when GM and UAW get together to build
> > > > a vehicle.
> >
> > What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
> > bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.
> >
> > I bought new a 1990 Geo Prizm and in the subsequent 12 years, put
> > 285,000 miles on it. The ONLY major repair was the automatic
> > transmission at 180,000 miles and one water pump at 160,000
> > miles. Sold the car for $1000. That was a NUMMI built car.
> > Following that impressive ownership, I replaced the Prizm with
> > a 2003 Corolla... also a NUMMI built car. So far, the only
> > failure has been a rear wheel bearing assembly at 15,000 miles
> > (warranty). I have put 31,800 miles on the car in 14½ months.
> >
> > Someday, DO tour the NUMMI plant like I did. NUMMI builds cars
> > and trucks per Toyota's blueprint. NUMMI is a
> > builder/assembler.... not a designer.
>
>
> Why would you want to tour an NUMMI plant??? Can't afford
> Disneyland? NUMMI being the builder is exactly the problem.
> Having rear wheel bearing failed at only 15,000 miles speaks for
> itself about the build quality.
In fact, Disneyland is within 20 minutes travel time and holds no
interest at my age. The NUMMI plant is on the way to a relative in
Bay Point (45 mi east of the Bay Area). The foolishness in your
observation is revealed in the fact that the wheel bearing is a
"sourced" part AND that 6 dealers in my area did not even stock the
part as normal inventory. That should suggest to you something other
than the conclusion you drew.
>
> Fact is that Toyota's non-union shops in the *U.S.* continue to
> churn out quality automobiles, while GM/UAW shops continue to
> crank out craps. That's the fact, period. Consumer Reports
> annual survey is far more credible than your story.
GM is the landlord and primary customer, Toyota is the product
designer and production manager, and NUMMI is the legal entity acting
as liaison between GM, Toyota, UAW, and the IRS. I toured NUMMI in
June of 2002 and purchased the Corolla in Sept of 2002. Liked what I
saw over all. I've also toured the Ford plant in Atlanta (was a
Taurus plant in 1989) and the Corvette plant in Bowling Green, KY.
The Ford tour did nothing to favorably impress me. Come to think of
it, I also had several "backdoor tours" of the GM plant in South Gate
.... years ago (1978?). Yikes! You are making accusations that are
not universal and particularly so regarding NUMMI. Perhaps you don't
know the history of that plant when GM ran it ... and finally had to
close it down. Cling to your bigotry, it's your comfortable zone.
--
~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"
HarrierAWD <harrierawd@giganews.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> In article
> <6DCsb.11036$6c3.4720@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink .net>, 1chip-
> state1@earthlink.net.invalid says...
> >
> > In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
> > Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> > > > Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built
> > > > in a Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture.
> > > > You know what happens when GM and UAW get together to build
> > > > a vehicle.
> >
> > What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
> > bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.
> >
> > I bought new a 1990 Geo Prizm and in the subsequent 12 years, put
> > 285,000 miles on it. The ONLY major repair was the automatic
> > transmission at 180,000 miles and one water pump at 160,000
> > miles. Sold the car for $1000. That was a NUMMI built car.
> > Following that impressive ownership, I replaced the Prizm with
> > a 2003 Corolla... also a NUMMI built car. So far, the only
> > failure has been a rear wheel bearing assembly at 15,000 miles
> > (warranty). I have put 31,800 miles on the car in 14½ months.
> >
> > Someday, DO tour the NUMMI plant like I did. NUMMI builds cars
> > and trucks per Toyota's blueprint. NUMMI is a
> > builder/assembler.... not a designer.
>
>
> Why would you want to tour an NUMMI plant??? Can't afford
> Disneyland? NUMMI being the builder is exactly the problem.
> Having rear wheel bearing failed at only 15,000 miles speaks for
> itself about the build quality.
In fact, Disneyland is within 20 minutes travel time and holds no
interest at my age. The NUMMI plant is on the way to a relative in
Bay Point (45 mi east of the Bay Area). The foolishness in your
observation is revealed in the fact that the wheel bearing is a
"sourced" part AND that 6 dealers in my area did not even stock the
part as normal inventory. That should suggest to you something other
than the conclusion you drew.
>
> Fact is that Toyota's non-union shops in the *U.S.* continue to
> churn out quality automobiles, while GM/UAW shops continue to
> crank out craps. That's the fact, period. Consumer Reports
> annual survey is far more credible than your story.
GM is the landlord and primary customer, Toyota is the product
designer and production manager, and NUMMI is the legal entity acting
as liaison between GM, Toyota, UAW, and the IRS. I toured NUMMI in
June of 2002 and purchased the Corolla in Sept of 2002. Liked what I
saw over all. I've also toured the Ford plant in Atlanta (was a
Taurus plant in 1989) and the Corvette plant in Bowling Green, KY.
The Ford tour did nothing to favorably impress me. Come to think of
it, I also had several "backdoor tours" of the GM plant in South Gate
.... years ago (1978?). Yikes! You are making accusations that are
not universal and particularly so regarding NUMMI. Perhaps you don't
know the history of that plant when GM ran it ... and finally had to
close it down. Cling to your bigotry, it's your comfortable zone.
--
~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"
#85
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
In news:FfidnWGcU--VsS6iRVn-gw@comcast.com,
HarrierAWD <harrierawd@giganews.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> In article
> <6DCsb.11036$6c3.4720@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink .net>, 1chip-
> state1@earthlink.net.invalid says...
> >
> > In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
> > Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> > > > Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built
> > > > in a Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture.
> > > > You know what happens when GM and UAW get together to build
> > > > a vehicle.
> >
> > What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
> > bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.
> >
> > I bought new a 1990 Geo Prizm and in the subsequent 12 years, put
> > 285,000 miles on it. The ONLY major repair was the automatic
> > transmission at 180,000 miles and one water pump at 160,000
> > miles. Sold the car for $1000. That was a NUMMI built car.
> > Following that impressive ownership, I replaced the Prizm with
> > a 2003 Corolla... also a NUMMI built car. So far, the only
> > failure has been a rear wheel bearing assembly at 15,000 miles
> > (warranty). I have put 31,800 miles on the car in 14½ months.
> >
> > Someday, DO tour the NUMMI plant like I did. NUMMI builds cars
> > and trucks per Toyota's blueprint. NUMMI is a
> > builder/assembler.... not a designer.
>
>
> Why would you want to tour an NUMMI plant??? Can't afford
> Disneyland? NUMMI being the builder is exactly the problem.
> Having rear wheel bearing failed at only 15,000 miles speaks for
> itself about the build quality.
In fact, Disneyland is within 20 minutes travel time and holds no
interest at my age. The NUMMI plant is on the way to a relative in
Bay Point (45 mi east of the Bay Area). The foolishness in your
observation is revealed in the fact that the wheel bearing is a
"sourced" part AND that 6 dealers in my area did not even stock the
part as normal inventory. That should suggest to you something other
than the conclusion you drew.
>
> Fact is that Toyota's non-union shops in the *U.S.* continue to
> churn out quality automobiles, while GM/UAW shops continue to
> crank out craps. That's the fact, period. Consumer Reports
> annual survey is far more credible than your story.
GM is the landlord and primary customer, Toyota is the product
designer and production manager, and NUMMI is the legal entity acting
as liaison between GM, Toyota, UAW, and the IRS. I toured NUMMI in
June of 2002 and purchased the Corolla in Sept of 2002. Liked what I
saw over all. I've also toured the Ford plant in Atlanta (was a
Taurus plant in 1989) and the Corvette plant in Bowling Green, KY.
The Ford tour did nothing to favorably impress me. Come to think of
it, I also had several "backdoor tours" of the GM plant in South Gate
.... years ago (1978?). Yikes! You are making accusations that are
not universal and particularly so regarding NUMMI. Perhaps you don't
know the history of that plant when GM ran it ... and finally had to
close it down. Cling to your bigotry, it's your comfortable zone.
--
~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"
HarrierAWD <harrierawd@giganews.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> In article
> <6DCsb.11036$6c3.4720@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink .net>, 1chip-
> state1@earthlink.net.invalid says...
> >
> > In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
> > Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> > > > Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built
> > > > in a Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture.
> > > > You know what happens when GM and UAW get together to build
> > > > a vehicle.
> >
> > What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
> > bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.
> >
> > I bought new a 1990 Geo Prizm and in the subsequent 12 years, put
> > 285,000 miles on it. The ONLY major repair was the automatic
> > transmission at 180,000 miles and one water pump at 160,000
> > miles. Sold the car for $1000. That was a NUMMI built car.
> > Following that impressive ownership, I replaced the Prizm with
> > a 2003 Corolla... also a NUMMI built car. So far, the only
> > failure has been a rear wheel bearing assembly at 15,000 miles
> > (warranty). I have put 31,800 miles on the car in 14½ months.
> >
> > Someday, DO tour the NUMMI plant like I did. NUMMI builds cars
> > and trucks per Toyota's blueprint. NUMMI is a
> > builder/assembler.... not a designer.
>
>
> Why would you want to tour an NUMMI plant??? Can't afford
> Disneyland? NUMMI being the builder is exactly the problem.
> Having rear wheel bearing failed at only 15,000 miles speaks for
> itself about the build quality.
In fact, Disneyland is within 20 minutes travel time and holds no
interest at my age. The NUMMI plant is on the way to a relative in
Bay Point (45 mi east of the Bay Area). The foolishness in your
observation is revealed in the fact that the wheel bearing is a
"sourced" part AND that 6 dealers in my area did not even stock the
part as normal inventory. That should suggest to you something other
than the conclusion you drew.
>
> Fact is that Toyota's non-union shops in the *U.S.* continue to
> churn out quality automobiles, while GM/UAW shops continue to
> crank out craps. That's the fact, period. Consumer Reports
> annual survey is far more credible than your story.
GM is the landlord and primary customer, Toyota is the product
designer and production manager, and NUMMI is the legal entity acting
as liaison between GM, Toyota, UAW, and the IRS. I toured NUMMI in
June of 2002 and purchased the Corolla in Sept of 2002. Liked what I
saw over all. I've also toured the Ford plant in Atlanta (was a
Taurus plant in 1989) and the Corvette plant in Bowling Green, KY.
The Ford tour did nothing to favorably impress me. Come to think of
it, I also had several "backdoor tours" of the GM plant in South Gate
.... years ago (1978?). Yikes! You are making accusations that are
not universal and particularly so regarding NUMMI. Perhaps you don't
know the history of that plant when GM ran it ... and finally had to
close it down. Cling to your bigotry, it's your comfortable zone.
--
~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"
#86
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
> > Latest Car and Driver had a great letter. In it someone pointed out,
Japan
> > and Germany is forbidden from building armies. Their brightest engineers
> go
> > work for auto manufacturers.
> >
> > In the U.S. , brightest minds go to work for defense companies.
>
> In your dreams. I've worked at Boeing and in the high-tech industries,
> and there is no comparison - best and brightest computer people work
> for Apple, Intel, Microsoft, NEC. If it is the same for manufacturing
> and mechanical design, I'd put my money on the auto-industry people.
>
> Floyd
>
I am not dreaming the letter. It was really there.
I am really not so sure brightest minds work for Microsoft, because if this
would be true, why did it take them 15+ years to finally have a stable
operating system? Apple is hanging onto 1% market share and NEC is Japanese
(so it should not even be here).
While we can bomb the crap out of any small object, and had stealth
fighters, put a man on the moon, all before any other country? So I thought
this made sense.
Japan
> > and Germany is forbidden from building armies. Their brightest engineers
> go
> > work for auto manufacturers.
> >
> > In the U.S. , brightest minds go to work for defense companies.
>
> In your dreams. I've worked at Boeing and in the high-tech industries,
> and there is no comparison - best and brightest computer people work
> for Apple, Intel, Microsoft, NEC. If it is the same for manufacturing
> and mechanical design, I'd put my money on the auto-industry people.
>
> Floyd
>
I am not dreaming the letter. It was really there.
I am really not so sure brightest minds work for Microsoft, because if this
would be true, why did it take them 15+ years to finally have a stable
operating system? Apple is hanging onto 1% market share and NEC is Japanese
(so it should not even be here).
While we can bomb the crap out of any small object, and had stealth
fighters, put a man on the moon, all before any other country? So I thought
this made sense.
#87
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
> > Latest Car and Driver had a great letter. In it someone pointed out,
Japan
> > and Germany is forbidden from building armies. Their brightest engineers
> go
> > work for auto manufacturers.
> >
> > In the U.S. , brightest minds go to work for defense companies.
>
> In your dreams. I've worked at Boeing and in the high-tech industries,
> and there is no comparison - best and brightest computer people work
> for Apple, Intel, Microsoft, NEC. If it is the same for manufacturing
> and mechanical design, I'd put my money on the auto-industry people.
>
> Floyd
>
I am not dreaming the letter. It was really there.
I am really not so sure brightest minds work for Microsoft, because if this
would be true, why did it take them 15+ years to finally have a stable
operating system? Apple is hanging onto 1% market share and NEC is Japanese
(so it should not even be here).
While we can bomb the crap out of any small object, and had stealth
fighters, put a man on the moon, all before any other country? So I thought
this made sense.
Japan
> > and Germany is forbidden from building armies. Their brightest engineers
> go
> > work for auto manufacturers.
> >
> > In the U.S. , brightest minds go to work for defense companies.
>
> In your dreams. I've worked at Boeing and in the high-tech industries,
> and there is no comparison - best and brightest computer people work
> for Apple, Intel, Microsoft, NEC. If it is the same for manufacturing
> and mechanical design, I'd put my money on the auto-industry people.
>
> Floyd
>
I am not dreaming the letter. It was really there.
I am really not so sure brightest minds work for Microsoft, because if this
would be true, why did it take them 15+ years to finally have a stable
operating system? Apple is hanging onto 1% market share and NEC is Japanese
(so it should not even be here).
While we can bomb the crap out of any small object, and had stealth
fighters, put a man on the moon, all before any other country? So I thought
this made sense.
#88
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
> > Latest Car and Driver had a great letter. In it someone pointed out,
Japan
> > and Germany is forbidden from building armies. Their brightest engineers
> go
> > work for auto manufacturers.
> >
> > In the U.S. , brightest minds go to work for defense companies.
>
> In your dreams. I've worked at Boeing and in the high-tech industries,
> and there is no comparison - best and brightest computer people work
> for Apple, Intel, Microsoft, NEC. If it is the same for manufacturing
> and mechanical design, I'd put my money on the auto-industry people.
>
> Floyd
>
I am not dreaming the letter. It was really there.
I am really not so sure brightest minds work for Microsoft, because if this
would be true, why did it take them 15+ years to finally have a stable
operating system? Apple is hanging onto 1% market share and NEC is Japanese
(so it should not even be here).
While we can bomb the crap out of any small object, and had stealth
fighters, put a man on the moon, all before any other country? So I thought
this made sense.
Japan
> > and Germany is forbidden from building armies. Their brightest engineers
> go
> > work for auto manufacturers.
> >
> > In the U.S. , brightest minds go to work for defense companies.
>
> In your dreams. I've worked at Boeing and in the high-tech industries,
> and there is no comparison - best and brightest computer people work
> for Apple, Intel, Microsoft, NEC. If it is the same for manufacturing
> and mechanical design, I'd put my money on the auto-industry people.
>
> Floyd
>
I am not dreaming the letter. It was really there.
I am really not so sure brightest minds work for Microsoft, because if this
would be true, why did it take them 15+ years to finally have a stable
operating system? Apple is hanging onto 1% market share and NEC is Japanese
(so it should not even be here).
While we can bomb the crap out of any small object, and had stealth
fighters, put a man on the moon, all before any other country? So I thought
this made sense.
#89
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
> > Latest Car and Driver had a great letter. In it someone pointed out,
Japan
> > and Germany is forbidden from building armies. Their brightest engineers
> go
> > work for auto manufacturers.
> >
> > In the U.S. , brightest minds go to work for defense companies.
>
> In your dreams. I've worked at Boeing and in the high-tech industries,
> and there is no comparison - best and brightest computer people work
> for Apple, Intel, Microsoft, NEC. If it is the same for manufacturing
> and mechanical design, I'd put my money on the auto-industry people.
>
> Floyd
>
I am not dreaming the letter. It was really there.
I am really not so sure brightest minds work for Microsoft, because if this
would be true, why did it take them 15+ years to finally have a stable
operating system? Apple is hanging onto 1% market share and NEC is Japanese
(so it should not even be here).
While we can bomb the crap out of any small object, and had stealth
fighters, put a man on the moon, all before any other country? So I thought
this made sense.
Japan
> > and Germany is forbidden from building armies. Their brightest engineers
> go
> > work for auto manufacturers.
> >
> > In the U.S. , brightest minds go to work for defense companies.
>
> In your dreams. I've worked at Boeing and in the high-tech industries,
> and there is no comparison - best and brightest computer people work
> for Apple, Intel, Microsoft, NEC. If it is the same for manufacturing
> and mechanical design, I'd put my money on the auto-industry people.
>
> Floyd
>
I am not dreaming the letter. It was really there.
I am really not so sure brightest minds work for Microsoft, because if this
would be true, why did it take them 15+ years to finally have a stable
operating system? Apple is hanging onto 1% market share and NEC is Japanese
(so it should not even be here).
While we can bomb the crap out of any small object, and had stealth
fighters, put a man on the moon, all before any other country? So I thought
this made sense.
#90
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
Timothy J. Lee wrote:
> In article <bUKsb.9199$nz.2555@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.n et>,
> Joseph Oberlander <josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>You'll note that Ford's SUVs from the Escape to the Excursion all have the
>>exact same worthless interior. Trim lines add leather and sunroofs and
>>such, but nothing to the basic worthless bare bones plasticky interior.
>
>
> Although it would make sense for an SUV to have an easy-clean interior
> like the Wrangler or Element (or old SUV), as opposed to a "nice" interior
> that gets dirty easily and is hard to clean.
I personally love the Element except...
What were they thinking putting AWD in it and no real 4WD? Ag. So
close to getting everything right and worthless off-road.
> In article <bUKsb.9199$nz.2555@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.n et>,
> Joseph Oberlander <josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>You'll note that Ford's SUVs from the Escape to the Excursion all have the
>>exact same worthless interior. Trim lines add leather and sunroofs and
>>such, but nothing to the basic worthless bare bones plasticky interior.
>
>
> Although it would make sense for an SUV to have an easy-clean interior
> like the Wrangler or Element (or old SUV), as opposed to a "nice" interior
> that gets dirty easily and is hard to clean.
I personally love the Element except...
What were they thinking putting AWD in it and no real 4WD? Ag. So
close to getting everything right and worthless off-road.