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Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids
On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:17:32 -0700, jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> >The current edition of "Car and Driver" (magazine) has an interesting >article about the dark side of the hybrids on page 26. The date on the >cover is September 2005. > >Many of the so called "greenies" have purchased hybrids because they >really care about the environment. I learned about something from the >article that I had never thought about before. What's going to happen to >those millions of batteries in hybrid vehicles after they wear out? They >will be placed in landfills. Imagine the harm that those batteries may do >to the enviroment after they are laying in a landfill for 50 years. > >If you own or are planning to buy a hybrid vehicle, I advise you to read >the article. > >Jason Pfft, missing the point. The point is that they're ONLY getting 40-45mpg. Many non-hybrids on sale in the EU will easily beat that. For isntance, n the UK, a VW lupo returned to one of the most outspoken motoring journalists int he world, an AVERAGE of 65mpg Hybrids are a Pr stunt only. |
Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids
The Hybrids are not a lead acid type. Over 240(?) small batteries of some
sort. -- Stephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician ASE Undercar Specialist "Doug McCrary" <DougMcCrary@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:CpPGe.3405$DJ5.202@trnddc07... > > JeB <no@spam.org> wrote in message > news:veene1dfn37o3oahd24biapf0eqq8qgs8c@4ax.com... >> On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:17:32 -0700, jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > >> >The current edition of "Car and Driver" (magazine) has an interesting >> >article about the dark side of the hybrids on page 26. The date on the >> >cover is September 2005. >> > >> >Many of the so called "greenies" have purchased hybrids because they >> >really care about the environment. I learned about something from the >> >article that I had never thought about before. What's going to happen to >> >those millions of batteries in hybrid vehicles after they wear out? They >> >will be placed in landfills. Imagine the harm that those batteries may >> >do >> >to the enviroment after they are laying in a landfill for 50 years. >> > >> >> I don't know the specifics but it seems that recycling of such >> things is quite common these days. >> >> > See http://www.batterycouncil.org/news-edf_response.html > > Which reads, in part: > 5. It's hard to argue with a 97.1 percent recycling rate for battery lead, > and > no other battery chemistry can come near that number. > > Car batteries are not disposed of. Their materials - mostly lead -- are > recycled > indefinitely. The battery industry has been continuously recycling and > reusing > lead from old car batteries for more than 50 years. There is virtually no > recycling process for other chemistries, and it's hard to even imagine the > cost > of developing a recycling process and infrastructure comparable to what we > already have with lead-acid batteries. > > > |
Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids
The Hybrids are not a lead acid type. Over 240(?) small batteries of some
sort. -- Stephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician ASE Undercar Specialist "Doug McCrary" <DougMcCrary@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:CpPGe.3405$DJ5.202@trnddc07... > > JeB <no@spam.org> wrote in message > news:veene1dfn37o3oahd24biapf0eqq8qgs8c@4ax.com... >> On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:17:32 -0700, jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > >> >The current edition of "Car and Driver" (magazine) has an interesting >> >article about the dark side of the hybrids on page 26. The date on the >> >cover is September 2005. >> > >> >Many of the so called "greenies" have purchased hybrids because they >> >really care about the environment. I learned about something from the >> >article that I had never thought about before. What's going to happen to >> >those millions of batteries in hybrid vehicles after they wear out? They >> >will be placed in landfills. Imagine the harm that those batteries may >> >do >> >to the enviroment after they are laying in a landfill for 50 years. >> > >> >> I don't know the specifics but it seems that recycling of such >> things is quite common these days. >> >> > See http://www.batterycouncil.org/news-edf_response.html > > Which reads, in part: > 5. It's hard to argue with a 97.1 percent recycling rate for battery lead, > and > no other battery chemistry can come near that number. > > Car batteries are not disposed of. Their materials - mostly lead -- are > recycled > indefinitely. The battery industry has been continuously recycling and > reusing > lead from old car batteries for more than 50 years. There is virtually no > recycling process for other chemistries, and it's hard to even imagine the > cost > of developing a recycling process and infrastructure comparable to what we > already have with lead-acid batteries. > > > |
Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids
In article <xvednayvPZZBqHHfRVn-tg@comcast.com>,
"Sid Schweiger" <spam@this.cretin> wrote: > >>All I'm saying is, Toyota is spinning their side of the story very > hard...In other words, never listen to a car salesman. And that's all that > PR piece is.<< > > Right. However, according to you we should believe any yahoo who posts > under an assumed name in a newsgroup, without any proof whatsoever. > > Thanks. I needed a good laugh today. Hmmmmmm. I'm not saying to believe or disbelieve; I'm simply pointing out that, like any good corporate PR machine, Toyota is spinning their side of the story very hard in order to sell more stuff. By that token, you shouldn't simply believe it wholesale without investigating it more. But because I'm saying that, you decide that Toyota's press release must be 100% correct and truthful? You lead an interesting life. |
Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids
In article <xvednayvPZZBqHHfRVn-tg@comcast.com>,
"Sid Schweiger" <spam@this.cretin> wrote: > >>All I'm saying is, Toyota is spinning their side of the story very > hard...In other words, never listen to a car salesman. And that's all that > PR piece is.<< > > Right. However, according to you we should believe any yahoo who posts > under an assumed name in a newsgroup, without any proof whatsoever. > > Thanks. I needed a good laugh today. Hmmmmmm. I'm not saying to believe or disbelieve; I'm simply pointing out that, like any good corporate PR machine, Toyota is spinning their side of the story very hard in order to sell more stuff. By that token, you shouldn't simply believe it wholesale without investigating it more. But because I'm saying that, you decide that Toyota's press release must be 100% correct and truthful? You lead an interesting life. |
Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids
"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message news:Xns96A3D50822383jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83.. . > "Steve Bigelow" <stevebigelowXXX@rogers.com> wrote in > news:gvqdnUTaMpe6nHHfRVn-hQ@rogers.com: > >> >> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message >> news:elmop-E6BE88.18342330072005@nntp1.usenetserver.com... >>> In article <kknne1t1eropvvu7f34ufmjs6lgtq80uct@4ax.com>, >>> Elliot Richmond <xmrichmond@xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote: >>> >>>> Here is what Toyota has to say about battery replacement >>>> and recycling: >>> >>> Spun like a member of the Clinton family. >>> >>> If you believe Toyota's PR spin 100%, you're in for a big surprise. >> >> ....and? >> That's it? >> >> Please enlighten us with your wisdom on the subject. >> >> >> > > NiMH and NiCd can only be recharged a number of times before their > capacity > drops off,and L-A batteries suffer from sulfation,electrolyte loss,and > vibration/shock damage(material falls out of the lead grids,shorts the > cell). Hot environments like the Southwest and Florida will shorten > battery > life further. > I don't know of any rechargeable battery chemistry that can be recharged > 100,000 times. Well, a hybrids' certainly wouldn't need to unless it only got 3 miles per charge. |
Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids
"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message news:Xns96A3D50822383jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83.. . > "Steve Bigelow" <stevebigelowXXX@rogers.com> wrote in > news:gvqdnUTaMpe6nHHfRVn-hQ@rogers.com: > >> >> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message >> news:elmop-E6BE88.18342330072005@nntp1.usenetserver.com... >>> In article <kknne1t1eropvvu7f34ufmjs6lgtq80uct@4ax.com>, >>> Elliot Richmond <xmrichmond@xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote: >>> >>>> Here is what Toyota has to say about battery replacement >>>> and recycling: >>> >>> Spun like a member of the Clinton family. >>> >>> If you believe Toyota's PR spin 100%, you're in for a big surprise. >> >> ....and? >> That's it? >> >> Please enlighten us with your wisdom on the subject. >> >> >> > > NiMH and NiCd can only be recharged a number of times before their > capacity > drops off,and L-A batteries suffer from sulfation,electrolyte loss,and > vibration/shock damage(material falls out of the lead grids,shorts the > cell). Hot environments like the Southwest and Florida will shorten > battery > life further. > I don't know of any rechargeable battery chemistry that can be recharged > 100,000 times. Well, a hybrids' certainly wouldn't need to unless it only got 3 miles per charge. |
Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
Jason wrote: > The current edition of "Car and Driver" (magazine) has an interesting > article about the dark side of the hybrids on page 26. The date on the > cover is September 2005. > > Many of the so called "greenies" have purchased hybrids because they > really care about the environment. I learned about something from the > article that I had never thought about before. What's going to happen to > those millions of batteries in hybrid vehicles after they wear out? They > will be placed in landfills. Imagine the harm that those batteries may do > to the enviroment after they are laying in a landfill for 50 years. > > If you own or are planning to buy a hybrid vehicle, I advise you to read > the article. > > Jason > > -- > NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO > We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. > We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. -- Tp, -------- __o ----- -\<. -------- __o --- ( )/ ( ) ---- -\<. -------------------- ( )/ ( ) ----------------------------------------- No Lawsuit Ever Fixed A Moron... |
Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
Jason wrote: > The current edition of "Car and Driver" (magazine) has an interesting > article about the dark side of the hybrids on page 26. The date on the > cover is September 2005. > > Many of the so called "greenies" have purchased hybrids because they > really care about the environment. I learned about something from the > article that I had never thought about before. What's going to happen to > those millions of batteries in hybrid vehicles after they wear out? They > will be placed in landfills. Imagine the harm that those batteries may do > to the enviroment after they are laying in a landfill for 50 years. > > If you own or are planning to buy a hybrid vehicle, I advise you to read > the article. > > Jason > > -- > NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO > We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. > We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. -- Tp, -------- __o ----- -\<. -------- __o --- ( )/ ( ) ---- -\<. -------------------- ( )/ ( ) ----------------------------------------- No Lawsuit Ever Fixed A Moron... |
Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids
"Doug McCrary" <DougMcCrary@spamcop.net> wrote in
news:yIWGe.12547$W%5.11957@trnddc05: > > Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message > news:Xns96A3D40B3EA56jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83.. . >> jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> news:jason-3007051017330001@pm4-broad- 55.snlo.dialup.fix.net: >> >> > >> > The current edition of "Car and Driver" (magazine) has an >> > interesting article about the dark side of the hybrids on page 26. >> > The date on the cover is September 2005. >> > >> > Many of the so called "greenies" have purchased hybrids because >> > they really care about the environment. I learned about something >> > from the article that I had never thought about before. What's >> > going to happen to those millions of batteries in hybrid vehicles >> > after they wear out? They will be placed in landfills. Imagine the >> > harm that those batteries may do to the enviroment after they are >> > laying in a landfill for 50 years. >> > >> > If you own or are planning to buy a hybrid vehicle, I advise you to >> > read the article. >> > >> > Jason >> > >> >> Lead-acid and other types of batteries (NiCd and NiMH,Li-ion)are >> already recycled,why should hybrid auto batteries escape that? >> > Apparently, not. http://www.ciwmb.ca.gov/WPIE/Batteries/ > ... After February 8, 2006, all batteries in California must be > recycled, or taken to a household hazardous waste disposal facility, a > universal waste handler (e.g., storage facility or broker), or an > authorized recycling facility. ... > It looks like that's partly due to federal regs, but I'm too lazy to > look. > >> IMO,there would be valuable materials that could be recovered,in the >> amounts that will be discarded. >> >> -- >> Jim Yanik >> jyanik >> at >> kua.net > > > Sure,there are many people who just toss their batteries in the trash,just because they are unaware of alternatives,or just take the easiest route. But Radio Shack and other stores that sell batteries accept them for recycling.And most auto stores require a "core" fee that is refunded when you return the old LA battery,and they send them off for recycling. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids
"Doug McCrary" <DougMcCrary@spamcop.net> wrote in
news:yIWGe.12547$W%5.11957@trnddc05: > > Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message > news:Xns96A3D40B3EA56jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83.. . >> jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> news:jason-3007051017330001@pm4-broad- 55.snlo.dialup.fix.net: >> >> > >> > The current edition of "Car and Driver" (magazine) has an >> > interesting article about the dark side of the hybrids on page 26. >> > The date on the cover is September 2005. >> > >> > Many of the so called "greenies" have purchased hybrids because >> > they really care about the environment. I learned about something >> > from the article that I had never thought about before. What's >> > going to happen to those millions of batteries in hybrid vehicles >> > after they wear out? They will be placed in landfills. Imagine the >> > harm that those batteries may do to the enviroment after they are >> > laying in a landfill for 50 years. >> > >> > If you own or are planning to buy a hybrid vehicle, I advise you to >> > read the article. >> > >> > Jason >> > >> >> Lead-acid and other types of batteries (NiCd and NiMH,Li-ion)are >> already recycled,why should hybrid auto batteries escape that? >> > Apparently, not. http://www.ciwmb.ca.gov/WPIE/Batteries/ > ... After February 8, 2006, all batteries in California must be > recycled, or taken to a household hazardous waste disposal facility, a > universal waste handler (e.g., storage facility or broker), or an > authorized recycling facility. ... > It looks like that's partly due to federal regs, but I'm too lazy to > look. > >> IMO,there would be valuable materials that could be recovered,in the >> amounts that will be discarded. >> >> -- >> Jim Yanik >> jyanik >> at >> kua.net > > > Sure,there are many people who just toss their batteries in the trash,just because they are unaware of alternatives,or just take the easiest route. But Radio Shack and other stores that sell batteries accept them for recycling.And most auto stores require a "core" fee that is refunded when you return the old LA battery,and they send them off for recycling. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids
"Steve Bigelow" <stevebigelowXXX@rogers.com> wrote in
news:odadnVehus3aRHHfRVn-gQ@rogers.com: > > "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message > news:Xns96A3D50822383jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83.. . >> "Steve Bigelow" <stevebigelowXXX@rogers.com> wrote in >> news:gvqdnUTaMpe6nHHfRVn-hQ@rogers.com: >> >>> >>> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message >>> news:elmop-E6BE88.18342330072005@nntp1.usenetserver.com... >>>> In article <kknne1t1eropvvu7f34ufmjs6lgtq80uct@4ax.com>, >>>> Elliot Richmond <xmrichmond@xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Here is what Toyota has to say about battery replacement >>>>> and recycling: >>>> >>>> Spun like a member of the Clinton family. >>>> >>>> If you believe Toyota's PR spin 100%, you're in for a big surprise. >>> >>> ....and? >>> That's it? >>> >>> Please enlighten us with your wisdom on the subject. >>> >>> >>> >> >> NiMH and NiCd can only be recharged a number of times before their >> capacity >> drops off,and L-A batteries suffer from sulfation,electrolyte >> loss,and vibration/shock damage(material falls out of the lead >> grids,shorts the cell). Hot environments like the Southwest and >> Florida will shorten battery >> life further. >> I don't know of any rechargeable battery chemistry that can be >> recharged 100,000 times. > > Well, a hybrids' certainly wouldn't need to unless it only got 3 miles > per charge. > > > They get charged before they run completely down;partial charges,"topping off".They still are charge cycles. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids
"Steve Bigelow" <stevebigelowXXX@rogers.com> wrote in
news:odadnVehus3aRHHfRVn-gQ@rogers.com: > > "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message > news:Xns96A3D50822383jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83.. . >> "Steve Bigelow" <stevebigelowXXX@rogers.com> wrote in >> news:gvqdnUTaMpe6nHHfRVn-hQ@rogers.com: >> >>> >>> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message >>> news:elmop-E6BE88.18342330072005@nntp1.usenetserver.com... >>>> In article <kknne1t1eropvvu7f34ufmjs6lgtq80uct@4ax.com>, >>>> Elliot Richmond <xmrichmond@xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Here is what Toyota has to say about battery replacement >>>>> and recycling: >>>> >>>> Spun like a member of the Clinton family. >>>> >>>> If you believe Toyota's PR spin 100%, you're in for a big surprise. >>> >>> ....and? >>> That's it? >>> >>> Please enlighten us with your wisdom on the subject. >>> >>> >>> >> >> NiMH and NiCd can only be recharged a number of times before their >> capacity >> drops off,and L-A batteries suffer from sulfation,electrolyte >> loss,and vibration/shock damage(material falls out of the lead >> grids,shorts the cell). Hot environments like the Southwest and >> Florida will shorten battery >> life further. >> I don't know of any rechargeable battery chemistry that can be >> recharged 100,000 times. > > Well, a hybrids' certainly wouldn't need to unless it only got 3 miles > per charge. > > > They get charged before they run completely down;partial charges,"topping off".They still are charge cycles. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids
>>I'm simply pointing out that, like any good corporate PR machine, Toyota
is spinning their side of the story very hard in order to sell more stuff. By that token, you shouldn't simply believe it wholesale without investigating it more.<< Congratulations. You've just won the grand prize for missing the point. They have data. You don't. You just assume that they're "spinning" because they're a big, bad company with an axe to grind. YOU made the allegation that they're "spinning." Where's your proof? Show us your data to prove their data wrong. We're waiting. >>But because I'm saying that, you decide that Toyota's press release must be 100% correct and truthful?<< Add to the above cited prize another one for putting words in someone's mouth. I decided no such thing. I see, so far, no evidence to contradict the press release, but that doesn't mean the evidence does or does not exist. You, OTOH, just assume it's a lie. Still waiting for that proof. |
Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids
>>I'm simply pointing out that, like any good corporate PR machine, Toyota
is spinning their side of the story very hard in order to sell more stuff. By that token, you shouldn't simply believe it wholesale without investigating it more.<< Congratulations. You've just won the grand prize for missing the point. They have data. You don't. You just assume that they're "spinning" because they're a big, bad company with an axe to grind. YOU made the allegation that they're "spinning." Where's your proof? Show us your data to prove their data wrong. We're waiting. >>But because I'm saying that, you decide that Toyota's press release must be 100% correct and truthful?<< Add to the above cited prize another one for putting words in someone's mouth. I decided no such thing. I see, so far, no evidence to contradict the press release, but that doesn't mean the evidence does or does not exist. You, OTOH, just assume it's a lie. Still waiting for that proof. |
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