Re: GM Closes 4 Suv and Truck Plants
 

Gib Bogle <bogle@ihug.too.much.spam.co.nz> wrote in
news:g25gh5$btq$2@lust.ihug.co.nz:

> Jim Yanik wrote:
>> "Don't Taze Me, Bro!" <One187@NoWhere.Com> wrote in
>> news:Bvm1k.9117$jX.8234@trnddc04:
>>
>>> "Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:pan.2008.06.04.01.11.59.798335@moria.lan...
>>>> On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 01:00:28 +0000, Don't Taze Me, Bro! wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> and shareholders suffer while GM pays GM Chief a crap load of
>>>>> money....
>>>> Ahhh. You're a socialist/Lib/Dimocrat, eh?
>>> Umm, for thinking the shareholders should not suffer losing money
>>> while the GM Chief is paid an insane amount of money?
>>>
>>> How did you get "socialist democrat" from thinking the shareholders
>>> should be treated right?
>>

As I said....
>> why haven't the SHAREHOLDERS corrrected this?


>>> Folks, above, I would like you observe what it is like to be
>>> brainwashed by one of the various political sides. Anytime a company
>>> gets questioned about ethics, there is always an extreme
>>> conservative who thinks it is socialist to suggest a company have
>>> such.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> it's socialist/communist to think that involving Government in
>> regulating such affairs is the solution. Or any sort of "excess
>> profit" taxation.
>>
>
> Who mentioned the government?
>

that is the usual demand;for Gov't to regulate something,when other means
of control are not achievable.

Since shareholders are not forcing "appropriate" CEO salaries or denying
unearned bonuses,what other way is there?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: GM Closes 4 Suv and Truck Plants
 

Larry in AZ <usenet2@DELETE.THISljvideo.com> wrote in
news:Xns9AB2D1B6558B7thefrogprince@69.28.173.184:

> Waiving the right to remain silent, Dan C
> <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> said:
>
>> On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 01:48:17 +0000, Don't Taze Me, Bro! wrote:
>>
>>>>> and shareholders suffer while GM pays GM Chief a crap load of
>>>>> money....
>>
>>>> Ahhh. You're a socialist/Lib/Dimocrat, eh?
>>
>>> Umm, for thinking the shareholders should not suffer losing money
>>> while the GM Chief is paid an insane amount of money?
>>
>> It's a fact of life, Junior. Sometimes shareholders lose money.
>> That's the way the stock market and the free enterprise system works.
>> As for the CEO making an "insane" amount of money... well, it's
>> certainly more than other GM employees make, but that's (also) how
>> things work. Those in charge get paid more. Simple fact of life.
>> Perhaps if you had more education, you could make some money,
>> yourself!
>
> Hey -for-brains... For presiding over a $39 Billion loss, he got
> a 64 percent raise.
>

and shareholders (and the BOD) allowed it.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: GM Closes 4 Suv and Truck Plants
 

Gordon McGrew <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in
news:5a5c44pdhbcgjtgkbqta93eqbm08pdh33p@4ax.com:

> On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 21:07:39 -0500, Dan C
><youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 01:48:17 +0000, Don't Taze Me, Bro! wrote:
>>
>>>>> and shareholders suffer while GM pays GM Chief a crap load of
>>>>> money....
>>
>>>> Ahhh. You're a socialist/Lib/Dimocrat, eh?
>>
>>> Umm, for thinking the shareholders should not suffer losing money
>>> while the GM Chief is paid an insane amount of money?
>>
>>It's a fact of life, Junior. Sometimes shareholders lose money.
>>That's the way the stock market and the free enterprise system works.
>>As for the CEO making an "insane" amount of money... well, it's
>>certainly more than other GM employees make, but that's (also) how
>>things work. Those in charge get paid more. Simple fact of life.
>>Perhaps if you had more education, you could make some money,
>>yourself!
>
> Here is a fact for you. Rick Wagoner, CEO of GM got total
> compensation last year of over $14 million. That is more than the
> compensation of the CEO and the 36 board members of Honda Motor
> Company combined. Honda had record sales last month. How is GM
> doing? Oh, that's right, the death spiral thing - never mind.
>
> Anyway, US executives are paid obscene amounts of money not just in
> comparison to "other employees," but compared to their foreign
> counterparts. Hard to see the value here. The truth is that American
> companies are - more and more - being run for the benefit of the
> executives rather than the stockholders or, god forbid, the mainstream
> workers.
>
>

and whose fault is that?
Do you suggest "there oughta be a law against it"?

BTW,companies are not run for the benefit of workers.
They are run for making a profit for their owners.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: GM Closes 4 Suv and Truck Plants
 

On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 19:25:52 -0700, jim beam wrote:

> Don't Taze Me, Bro! wrote:
>> and shareholders suffer while GM pays GM Chief a crap load of money....
>>
>> The best quote:
>> "We either need to change this company or have the Japanese come in and run
>> the whole place," John Lauve
>>
>>
>> http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080603/gm_sh...ders.html?.v=5
>>
>
> troll

PKB...

Re: GM Closes 4 Suv and Truck Plants
 

On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 02:59:02 +0000, Don't Taze Me, Bro! wrote:

>
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:ucSdnRWhqPCtYNjVnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> Don't Taze Me, Bro! wrote:
>>> and shareholders suffer while GM pays GM Chief a crap load of money....
>>>
>>> The best quote:
>>> "We either need to change this company or have the Japanese come in and
>>> run the whole place," John Lauve
>>>
>>>
>>> http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080603/gm_sh...ders.html?.v=5
>>>
>>
>> troll
>
> Okay, you go to plonky town.. Buh Bye! PLONK

But I like reading drivel from morons!

Re: GM Closes 4 Suv and Truck Plants
 

On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:12:00 -0500, Dan C wrote:

> On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 01:00:28 +0000, Don't Taze Me, Bro! wrote:
>
>> and shareholders suffer while GM pays GM Chief a crap load of money....
>
> Ahhh. You're a socialist/Lib/Dimocrat, eh?
>
> <snip>


I'm not, and I agree with him. GM is laying off hundreds of workers, and
the CEO gets a bonus?

I actually think instead of Japanese management, GM should consider
getting some Chinese managers.

When they phuque up, either they hang themselves...
or the government doesit for them.


GM should have anticipated this a long time ago. They *never* learn! This
has happened at least 5 times in the past 30 years, GM gets stuck making
vehicles nobody wants and the Japanese surge ahead.

But this time, even Toyota is getting stuck with supplies of Sequoias.

Re: GM Closes 4 Suv and Truck Plants
 

On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 03:39:50 +0000, Larry in AZ wrote:

>> It's a fact of life, Junior. Sometimes shareholders lose money. That's
>> the way the stock market and the free enterprise system works. As for
>> the CEO making an "insane" amount of money... well, it's certainly more
>> than other GM employees make, but that's (also) how things work. Those
>> in charge get paid more. Simple fact of life. Perhaps if you had more
>> education, you could make some money, yourself!

> Hey -for-brains... For presiding over a $39 Billion loss, he got a 64
> percent raise.

It's a stressful job. I guess you've never been in charge of anything, so
it's no wonder you don't understand, dimwit.

The "shareholders" are the real idiots here. Next to you, of course.


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
Now filtering out all posts originating from Google Groups.
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org

Re: GM Closes 4 Suv and Truck Plants
 

On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 23:27:46 -0500, Gordon McGrew wrote:

>>It's a fact of life, Junior. Sometimes shareholders lose money. That's
>>the way the stock market and the free enterprise system works. As for the
>>CEO making an "insane" amount of money... well, it's certainly more than
>>other GM employees make, but that's (also) how things work. Those in
>>charge get paid more. Simple fact of life. Perhaps if you had more
>>education, you could make some money, yourself!

> Here is a fact for you. Rick Wagoner, CEO of GM got total
> compensation last year of over $14 million. That is more than the
> compensation of the CEO and the 36 board members of Honda Motor
> Company combined. Honda had record sales last month. How is GM
> doing? Oh, that's right, the death spiral thing - never mind.

How much he makes in comparison to other executives (especially
foreigners) is completely irrelevant. He was paid an amount that was
decided upon by the board of directors, who are supposed to be the direct
representatives of the shareholders. Blame the board, and the
shareholders, for paying him too much, if you must blame someone.

> Anyway, US executives are paid obscene amounts of money not just in
> comparison to "other employees," but compared to their foreign
> counterparts. Hard to see the value here. The truth is that American
> companies are - more and more - being run for the benefit of the
> executives rather than the stockholders or, god forbid, the mainstream
> workers.

Jesus, did none of you ever study economics and the free enterprise
system? This isn't a commune trying to the wealth amongst everyone
equally. This is a ing American business, whose goals are (and should
be) to make the maximum profit possible for the company. How that company
decides to compensate it's directors/executives and other workers is
decided by the company. Rick Wagoner didn't set his own salary, the
goddam board of directors (and shareholders) did. Don't blame the dude
for accepting what they offer to pay him.

We've got enough socialism in the country already. Just look at the
circus which is the Democrat party if you want to see that.


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
Now filtering out all posts originating from Google Groups.
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org

Re: GM Closes 4 Suv and Truck Plants
 

Dan C wrote:

> On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 01:00:28 +0000, Don't Taze Me, Bro! wrote:
>
> > and shareholders suffer while GM pays GM Chief a crap load of money....
>
> Ahhh. You're a socialist/Lib/Dimocrat, eh?

He sounds more like a capitalist shareholder.

Why did GM do so well under the reign of "Engine" Charlie Wilson, who
was a socialist/lib/Democrat?

Re: GM Closes 4 Suv and Truck Plants
 

On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 06:46:07 -0700, larry moe 'n curly wrote:

>> > and shareholders suffer while GM pays GM Chief a crap load of money....

>> Ahhh. You're a socialist/Lib/Dimocrat, eh?

> He sounds more like a capitalist shareholder.
>
> Why did GM do so well under the reign of "Engine" Charlie Wilson, who
> was a socialist/lib/Democrat?

Don't know, don't care. I wasn't referring to the political leanings of
the current GM CEO, or how he ran the company.

I was talking about the troll's attempt at making it seem "unfair" that
the CEO makes more money than Joe-assembly-line-worker.


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
Now filtering out all posts originating from Google Groups.
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org

Re: GM Closes 4 Suv and Truck Plants
 

An excellent point.

> Here is a fact for you. Rick Wagoner, CEO of GM got total
> compensation last year of over $14 million. That is more than the
> compensation of the CEO and the 36 board members of Honda Motor
> Company combined. Honda had record sales last month. How is GM
> doing? Oh, that's right, the death spiral thing - never mind.
>
> Anyway, US executives are paid obscene amounts of money not just in
> comparison to "other employees," but compared to their foreign
> counterparts. Hard to see the value here. The truth is that American
> companies are - more and more - being run for the benefit of the
> executives rather than the stockholders or, god forbid, the mainstream
> workers.
>

Re: GM Closes 4 Suv and Truck Plants
 

I agree, but the executives are workers, and GMs paying higher than the
industry rate for executives.


>
> BTW,companies are not run for the benefit of workers.
> They are run for making a profit for their owners.
>
> --
> Jim Yanik
> jyanik
> at
> kua.net

Re: GM Closes 4 Suv and Truck Plants
 

I'm a capitalist, but overcompensating executives that don't perform and
expecting the company to survive is stupidity that will kill the company.
Do you need proof? Also, do you have to defame the Lord to make your point?
>
> Jesus, did none of you ever study economics and the free enterprise
> system? This isn't a commune trying to the wealth amongst everyone
> equally. This is a ing American business, whose goals are (and should
> be) to make the maximum profit possible for the company. How that company
> decides to compensate it's directors/executives and other workers is
> decided by the company. Rick Wagoner didn't set his own salary, the
> goddam board of directors (and shareholders) did. Don't blame the dude
> for accepting what they offer to pay him.
>
> We've got enough socialism in the country already. Just look at the
> circus which is the Democrat party if you want to see that.
>
>
> --
> "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
> Now filtering out all posts originating from Google Groups.
> The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
>

Re: GM Closes 4 Suv and Truck Plants
 

On 4 Jun 2008 12:16:36 GMT, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:

>Gordon McGrew <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in
>news:5a5c44pdhbcgjtgkbqta93eqbm08pdh33p@4ax.com :
>
>> On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 21:07:39 -0500, Dan C
>><youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 01:48:17 +0000, Don't Taze Me, Bro! wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> and shareholders suffer while GM pays GM Chief a crap load of
>>>>>> money....
>>>
>>>>> Ahhh. You're a socialist/Lib/Dimocrat, eh?
>>>
>>>> Umm, for thinking the shareholders should not suffer losing money
>>>> while the GM Chief is paid an insane amount of money?
>>>
>>>It's a fact of life, Junior. Sometimes shareholders lose money.
>>>That's the way the stock market and the free enterprise system works.
>>>As for the CEO making an "insane" amount of money... well, it's
>>>certainly more than other GM employees make, but that's (also) how
>>>things work. Those in charge get paid more. Simple fact of life.
>>>Perhaps if you had more education, you could make some money,
>>>yourself!
>>
>> Here is a fact for you. Rick Wagoner, CEO of GM got total
>> compensation last year of over $14 million. That is more than the
>> compensation of the CEO and the 36 board members of Honda Motor
>> Company combined. Honda had record sales last month. How is GM
>> doing? Oh, that's right, the death spiral thing - never mind.
>>
>> Anyway, US executives are paid obscene amounts of money not just in
>> comparison to "other employees," but compared to their foreign
>> counterparts. Hard to see the value here. The truth is that American
>> companies are - more and more - being run for the benefit of the
>> executives rather than the stockholders or, god forbid, the mainstream
>> workers.
>>
>>
>
>and whose fault is that?
>Do you suggest "there oughta be a law against it"?

A law against it? Hell no. I think the tax tables need to be
adjusted. And when he tries to pass on this tremendous wealth to
whatever progeny might share his genetic makeup, that transfer should
be heavily taxed. If the company then wants to make a major
contribution (albeit indirect) to the US Treasury, they can knock
themselves out.

>BTW,companies are not run for the benefit of workers.

And unions are not run for the benefit of the company.

>They are run for making a profit for their owners.

Tell that to the GM shareholders. I bet not 0.1% of them make as much
as Wagoner.

Re: GM Closes 4 Suv and Truck Plants
 

On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 07:48:29 -0500, Dan C
<youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote:

>On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 23:27:46 -0500, Gordon McGrew wrote:
>
>>>It's a fact of life, Junior. Sometimes shareholders lose money. That's
>>>the way the stock market and the free enterprise system works. As for the
>>>CEO making an "insane" amount of money... well, it's certainly more than
>>>other GM employees make, but that's (also) how things work. Those in
>>>charge get paid more. Simple fact of life. Perhaps if you had more
>>>education, you could make some money, yourself!
>
>> Here is a fact for you. Rick Wagoner, CEO of GM got total
>> compensation last year of over $14 million. That is more than the
>> compensation of the CEO and the 36 board members of Honda Motor
>> Company combined. Honda had record sales last month. How is GM
>> doing? Oh, that's right, the death spiral thing - never mind.
>
>How much he makes in comparison to other executives (especially
>foreigners) is completely irrelevant. He was paid an amount that was
>decided upon by the board of directors, who are supposed to be the direct

"supposed to" being the operative statement here.

>representatives of the shareholders. Blame the board, and the
>shareholders, for paying him too much, if you must blame someone.

Blame the Board (aka his golf buddies), sure. The stockholders' only
real vote is to sell. Considering that GM stock is worth no more now
than it was in 1960, I think a lot of them have already voted.

>> Anyway, US executives are paid obscene amounts of money not just in
>> comparison to "other employees," but compared to their foreign
>> counterparts. Hard to see the value here. The truth is that American
>> companies are - more and more - being run for the benefit of the
>> executives rather than the stockholders or, god forbid, the mainstream
>> workers.
>
>Jesus, did none of you ever study economics and the free enterprise
>system? This isn't a commune trying to the wealth amongst everyone
>equally. This is a ing American business, whose goals are (and should
>be) to make the maximum profit possible for the company.

I agree, that should be the goal. I am telling you that you are
naive. The purpose of the company is to make the top executives as
rich as possible.

> How that company
>decides to compensate it's directors/executives and other workers is
>decided by the company. Rick Wagoner didn't set his own salary, the
>goddam board of directors (and shareholders) did. Don't blame the dude
>for accepting what they offer to pay him.

And when he sits on the board of their company, don't blame them for
accepting what Rick Wagoner gives them.

>We've got enough socialism in the country already. Just look at the
>circus which is the Democrat party if you want to see that.

Democracy is so untidy. Let's just make Bush dictator like he said he
wanted.