Re: GM U.S. July sales down 19.5 percent, Honda up 10.2%
 

N8N wrote:
> Mike Hunter wrote:
> > Among my collection of old cars there is a 1971 Pinto. Currently there is
> > 305K on the clock. Looks and runs as good as new. It even wins it class at
> > old cars shows. Know what I have yet to see at an old car show? ANY
> > Japanese cars, in my class, except for a low mileage XR7 or a 'Z' car on
> > occasion in the sport class. Lots of British, German, even French and
> > Italian small cars from that era but hardly ever see a Jap car ;)
>
> That's odd, I've seen quite a few B210s done up for vintage racing.
>
> nate

Just remembered, I've seen a couple of those little Datsun 2-seat
convertibles (pre-Z car) nicely restored as well. At least one at each
of the last couple local car shows I've been to.

nate

Re: GM U.S. July sales down 19.5 percent, Honda up 10.2%
 

N8N wrote:
> Mike Hunter wrote:
> > Among my collection of old cars there is a 1971 Pinto. Currently there is
> > 305K on the clock. Looks and runs as good as new. It even wins it class at
> > old cars shows. Know what I have yet to see at an old car show? ANY
> > Japanese cars, in my class, except for a low mileage XR7 or a 'Z' car on
> > occasion in the sport class. Lots of British, German, even French and
> > Italian small cars from that era but hardly ever see a Jap car ;)
>
> That's odd, I've seen quite a few B210s done up for vintage racing.
>
> nate

Just remembered, I've seen a couple of those little Datsun 2-seat
convertibles (pre-Z car) nicely restored as well. At least one at each
of the last couple local car shows I've been to.

nate

Re: GM U.S. July sales down 19.5 percent, Honda up 10.2%
 

N8N wrote:
> Mike Hunter wrote:
> > Among my collection of old cars there is a 1971 Pinto. Currently there is
> > 305K on the clock. Looks and runs as good as new. It even wins it class at
> > old cars shows. Know what I have yet to see at an old car show? ANY
> > Japanese cars, in my class, except for a low mileage XR7 or a 'Z' car on
> > occasion in the sport class. Lots of British, German, even French and
> > Italian small cars from that era but hardly ever see a Jap car ;)
>
> That's odd, I've seen quite a few B210s done up for vintage racing.
>
> nate

Just remembered, I've seen a couple of those little Datsun 2-seat
convertibles (pre-Z car) nicely restored as well. At least one at each
of the last couple local car shows I've been to.

nate

Re: GM U.S. July sales down 19.5 percent, Honda up 10.2%
 

Rebuilt, maybe, but not non-Datsun.

How many '65 Mustangs still have original, unrebuilt engines?

nate

Mike Hunter wrote:
> Perhaps, with all new drive trains, but not originals at old car shows ;)
>
> mike
>
>
> "N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1154632856.607624.99920@s13g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> >
> > Mike Hunter wrote:
> >> Among my collection of old cars there is a 1971 Pinto. Currently there
> >> is
> >> 305K on the clock. Looks and runs as good as new. It even wins it class
> >> at
> >> old cars shows. Know what I have yet to see at an old car show? ANY
> >> Japanese cars, in my class, except for a low mileage XR7 or a 'Z' car on
> >> occasion in the sport class. Lots of British, German, even French and
> >> Italian small cars from that era but hardly ever see a Jap car ;)
> >
> > That's odd, I've seen quite a few B210s done up for vintage racing.
> >
> > nate
> >

Re: GM U.S. July sales down 19.5 percent, Honda up 10.2%
 

Rebuilt, maybe, but not non-Datsun.

How many '65 Mustangs still have original, unrebuilt engines?

nate

Mike Hunter wrote:
> Perhaps, with all new drive trains, but not originals at old car shows ;)
>
> mike
>
>
> "N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1154632856.607624.99920@s13g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> >
> > Mike Hunter wrote:
> >> Among my collection of old cars there is a 1971 Pinto. Currently there
> >> is
> >> 305K on the clock. Looks and runs as good as new. It even wins it class
> >> at
> >> old cars shows. Know what I have yet to see at an old car show? ANY
> >> Japanese cars, in my class, except for a low mileage XR7 or a 'Z' car on
> >> occasion in the sport class. Lots of British, German, even French and
> >> Italian small cars from that era but hardly ever see a Jap car ;)
> >
> > That's odd, I've seen quite a few B210s done up for vintage racing.
> >
> > nate
> >

Re: GM U.S. July sales down 19.5 percent, Honda up 10.2%
 

Rebuilt, maybe, but not non-Datsun.

How many '65 Mustangs still have original, unrebuilt engines?

nate

Mike Hunter wrote:
> Perhaps, with all new drive trains, but not originals at old car shows ;)
>
> mike
>
>
> "N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1154632856.607624.99920@s13g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> >
> > Mike Hunter wrote:
> >> Among my collection of old cars there is a 1971 Pinto. Currently there
> >> is
> >> 305K on the clock. Looks and runs as good as new. It even wins it class
> >> at
> >> old cars shows. Know what I have yet to see at an old car show? ANY
> >> Japanese cars, in my class, except for a low mileage XR7 or a 'Z' car on
> >> occasion in the sport class. Lots of British, German, even French and
> >> Italian small cars from that era but hardly ever see a Jap car ;)
> >
> > That's odd, I've seen quite a few B210s done up for vintage racing.
> >
> > nate
> >

Re: GM U.S. July sales down 19.5 percent, Honda up 10.2%
 

Mike Hunter wrote:
> We are all entitled to our opinions I guess. What makes you believe the
> 'fuel(s) of the future' will be less expensive than
> gasoline? Hydrogen is currently around $20 a gallon
>
> I've been in all three sides of the automotive business for a long time and
> in the real world people buy what they want. History repeatedly tells us
> what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful.
> Look at what both Toyota and Honda have marketed over the past ten years.
> They are ALL bigger and more powerful, with more new trucks and SUVs than
> small cars. Todays Corolla is a bigger car than the Camry of yore. Where
> the import have the advantage is that can import the midget cars the make
> and sell around the world. They can't afford to build them in the US
> anymore than domestics can. Even though the imports have much lower labor
> and benefits cost than the domestics in the US. When buyers warm to the
> higher gas prices they will shun smaller cars just as they did after the
> last big gas price jumps. Teh fact is we use far more gas at $3 than we did
> when it was $2
>
> Even if we could develop an alternative fuel to replace gasoline, the cost
> of a delivery system alone would be in the billions, IF we can get it built
> under the current pollution laws. If we did all that OPEC can simply lower
> the price of crude and make ANY new fuel a more expensive option. We sill
> never see any fuel for our cars that is less expensive, so the sooner you
> become accustomed to it you can buy the big powerful car vehicle you want.
> ;)

That's right, when a commodity is expensive because it's scarce, the
solution is to just make more money and consume, consume, consume and
don't give a second thought to what would happen if everyone acted like
you.

nate

Re: GM U.S. July sales down 19.5 percent, Honda up 10.2%
 

Mike Hunter wrote:
> We are all entitled to our opinions I guess. What makes you believe the
> 'fuel(s) of the future' will be less expensive than
> gasoline? Hydrogen is currently around $20 a gallon
>
> I've been in all three sides of the automotive business for a long time and
> in the real world people buy what they want. History repeatedly tells us
> what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful.
> Look at what both Toyota and Honda have marketed over the past ten years.
> They are ALL bigger and more powerful, with more new trucks and SUVs than
> small cars. Todays Corolla is a bigger car than the Camry of yore. Where
> the import have the advantage is that can import the midget cars the make
> and sell around the world. They can't afford to build them in the US
> anymore than domestics can. Even though the imports have much lower labor
> and benefits cost than the domestics in the US. When buyers warm to the
> higher gas prices they will shun smaller cars just as they did after the
> last big gas price jumps. Teh fact is we use far more gas at $3 than we did
> when it was $2
>
> Even if we could develop an alternative fuel to replace gasoline, the cost
> of a delivery system alone would be in the billions, IF we can get it built
> under the current pollution laws. If we did all that OPEC can simply lower
> the price of crude and make ANY new fuel a more expensive option. We sill
> never see any fuel for our cars that is less expensive, so the sooner you
> become accustomed to it you can buy the big powerful car vehicle you want.
> ;)

That's right, when a commodity is expensive because it's scarce, the
solution is to just make more money and consume, consume, consume and
don't give a second thought to what would happen if everyone acted like
you.

nate

Re: GM U.S. July sales down 19.5 percent, Honda up 10.2%
 

Mike Hunter wrote:
> We are all entitled to our opinions I guess. What makes you believe the
> 'fuel(s) of the future' will be less expensive than
> gasoline? Hydrogen is currently around $20 a gallon
>
> I've been in all three sides of the automotive business for a long time and
> in the real world people buy what they want. History repeatedly tells us
> what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful.
> Look at what both Toyota and Honda have marketed over the past ten years.
> They are ALL bigger and more powerful, with more new trucks and SUVs than
> small cars. Todays Corolla is a bigger car than the Camry of yore. Where
> the import have the advantage is that can import the midget cars the make
> and sell around the world. They can't afford to build them in the US
> anymore than domestics can. Even though the imports have much lower labor
> and benefits cost than the domestics in the US. When buyers warm to the
> higher gas prices they will shun smaller cars just as they did after the
> last big gas price jumps. Teh fact is we use far more gas at $3 than we did
> when it was $2
>
> Even if we could develop an alternative fuel to replace gasoline, the cost
> of a delivery system alone would be in the billions, IF we can get it built
> under the current pollution laws. If we did all that OPEC can simply lower
> the price of crude and make ANY new fuel a more expensive option. We sill
> never see any fuel for our cars that is less expensive, so the sooner you
> become accustomed to it you can buy the big powerful car vehicle you want.
> ;)

That's right, when a commodity is expensive because it's scarce, the
solution is to just make more money and consume, consume, consume and
don't give a second thought to what would happen if everyone acted like
you.

nate

Re: GM U.S. July sales down 19.5 percent, Honda up 10.2%
 

Apparently you do not know much about the US if you believe that. ;)


mike hunt


"Gosi" <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154635051.661780.273930@m79g2000cwm.googlegr oups.com...
>
> That is incredibly stupid
>
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:

We are all entitled to our opinions I guess. What makes you believe the
'fuel(s) of the future' will be less expensive than
gasoline? Hydrogen is currently around $20 a gallon

I've been in all three sides of the automotive business for a long time and
in the real world people buy what they want. History repeatedly tells us
what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful.
Look at what both Toyota and Honda have marketed over the past ten years.
They are ALL bigger and more powerful, with more new trucks and SUVs than
small cars. Todays Corolla is a bigger car than the Camry of yore. Where
the import have the advantage is that can import the midget cars the make
and sell around the world. They can't afford to build them in the US
anymore than domestics can. Even though the imports have much lower labor
and benefits cost than the domestics in the US. When buyers warm to the
higher gas prices they will shun smaller cars just as they did after the
last big gas price jumps. Teh fact is we use far more gas at $3 than we did
when it was $2

Even if we could develop an alternative fuel to replace gasoline, the cost
of a delivery system alone would be in the billions, IF we can get it built
under the current pollution laws. If we did all that OPEC can simply lower
the price of crude and make ANY new fuel a more expensive option. We sill
never see any fuel for our cars that is less expensive, so the sooner you
become accustomed to it you can buy the big powerful car vehicle you want.
;)


mike hunt

>> History repeatedly tells us
>> what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful.
>
>
> People want transport from a to b and they want it to be safe,
> comfortable and at a low cost
>
> In Europe that means increasingly using trains for long trips and small
> cars at the destination
>
> There is an increasing number of powerful transport options using
> combination of high quality trains and comfortable long lasting small
> cars
>

Re: GM U.S. July sales down 19.5 percent, Honda up 10.2%
 

Apparently you do not know much about the US if you believe that. ;)


mike hunt


"Gosi" <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154635051.661780.273930@m79g2000cwm.googlegr oups.com...
>
> That is incredibly stupid
>
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:

We are all entitled to our opinions I guess. What makes you believe the
'fuel(s) of the future' will be less expensive than
gasoline? Hydrogen is currently around $20 a gallon

I've been in all three sides of the automotive business for a long time and
in the real world people buy what they want. History repeatedly tells us
what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful.
Look at what both Toyota and Honda have marketed over the past ten years.
They are ALL bigger and more powerful, with more new trucks and SUVs than
small cars. Todays Corolla is a bigger car than the Camry of yore. Where
the import have the advantage is that can import the midget cars the make
and sell around the world. They can't afford to build them in the US
anymore than domestics can. Even though the imports have much lower labor
and benefits cost than the domestics in the US. When buyers warm to the
higher gas prices they will shun smaller cars just as they did after the
last big gas price jumps. Teh fact is we use far more gas at $3 than we did
when it was $2

Even if we could develop an alternative fuel to replace gasoline, the cost
of a delivery system alone would be in the billions, IF we can get it built
under the current pollution laws. If we did all that OPEC can simply lower
the price of crude and make ANY new fuel a more expensive option. We sill
never see any fuel for our cars that is less expensive, so the sooner you
become accustomed to it you can buy the big powerful car vehicle you want.
;)


mike hunt

>> History repeatedly tells us
>> what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful.
>
>
> People want transport from a to b and they want it to be safe,
> comfortable and at a low cost
>
> In Europe that means increasingly using trains for long trips and small
> cars at the destination
>
> There is an increasing number of powerful transport options using
> combination of high quality trains and comfortable long lasting small
> cars
>

Re: GM U.S. July sales down 19.5 percent, Honda up 10.2%
 

Apparently you do not know much about the US if you believe that. ;)


mike hunt


"Gosi" <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154635051.661780.273930@m79g2000cwm.googlegr oups.com...
>
> That is incredibly stupid
>
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:

We are all entitled to our opinions I guess. What makes you believe the
'fuel(s) of the future' will be less expensive than
gasoline? Hydrogen is currently around $20 a gallon

I've been in all three sides of the automotive business for a long time and
in the real world people buy what they want. History repeatedly tells us
what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful.
Look at what both Toyota and Honda have marketed over the past ten years.
They are ALL bigger and more powerful, with more new trucks and SUVs than
small cars. Todays Corolla is a bigger car than the Camry of yore. Where
the import have the advantage is that can import the midget cars the make
and sell around the world. They can't afford to build them in the US
anymore than domestics can. Even though the imports have much lower labor
and benefits cost than the domestics in the US. When buyers warm to the
higher gas prices they will shun smaller cars just as they did after the
last big gas price jumps. Teh fact is we use far more gas at $3 than we did
when it was $2

Even if we could develop an alternative fuel to replace gasoline, the cost
of a delivery system alone would be in the billions, IF we can get it built
under the current pollution laws. If we did all that OPEC can simply lower
the price of crude and make ANY new fuel a more expensive option. We sill
never see any fuel for our cars that is less expensive, so the sooner you
become accustomed to it you can buy the big powerful car vehicle you want.
;)


mike hunt

>> History repeatedly tells us
>> what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful.
>
>
> People want transport from a to b and they want it to be safe,
> comfortable and at a low cost
>
> In Europe that means increasingly using trains for long trips and small
> cars at the destination
>
> There is an increasing number of powerful transport options using
> combination of high quality trains and comfortable long lasting small
> cars
>

Re: GM U.S. July sales down 19.5 percent, Honda up 10.2%
 

As you should well know, fleet use and private use are two different
animals. Someone with a fleet car doesn't care about it as long as it
is still functional and safe to drive. However, they would never put
up with the junky feel and increased NVH of worn components in their
own personal cars. Thus a cheaply made car will cost a private owner
much more over the long term than a well built one, unless the owner
*acts* like a fleet manager and trades it in every couple years.

nate

Mike Hunter wrote:
> As I said before you are entitle to your opinion but that does not mean it
> is the most valid. When I owned my fleet service business we serviced
> thousand of vehicles monthly, of nearly every brand you can name. With our
> meticulous service, as recorded in the records we accumulated, we saw little
> discernable differences on average among the vehicles on the market today.
> The only real difference is style and price and one need not spend at lot
> more money to buy a good dependable vehicle. Just a note, the manufacture
> with the most vehicles recalled so far for 2006 is Toyota. ;)
>
>
> mike hunt
>
>
> "N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1154557432.542481.193170@i3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> >
> > Mike Hunter wrote:
> >> Overtaking GM worldwide is more of a possibility than in the US. GM and
> >> Toyota do not necessarily compete in the same small markets around the
> >> world. The Japs have a better economies of scale in the small and
> >> midget
> >> cars, as well. As Toyota starts to sell vehicles in the US in the
> >> million
> >> rather than in the hundreds of thousands, as it has for a long time,
> >> more
> >> of their not so good ones are starting to come to the surface. Over time
> >> that will erode the buyers perception of their so call superior quality.
> >> Anybody in the business knows that Toyotas vehicles are no better on
> >> average
> >> than any other manufactures vehicles.
> >
> > Stop, you're killing me. Only a very few mfgrs. have the same
> > reputation for reliability and durability as Toyota. Really only Honda
> > has the same kind of "halo" although I am partial to VW myself (but
> > their shitty dealer network and past issues with poor quality
> > outsourced components has tarnished their reputation among the general
> > public.)
> >
> > Anyone that can say with a straight face that there is no difference in
> > quality between vehicles is quite simply ignorant. If that were true,
> > we'd all just buy the cheapest car we could. Simply test driving a
> > cross-section of the various cars in any given class will show up great
> > differences in fit and finish, material quality, etc. etc. etc. and to
> > disregard this is idiotic. Most people realize this, and try to strike
> > some compromise between quality and price.
> >
> > nate
> >

Re: GM U.S. July sales down 19.5 percent, Honda up 10.2%
 

As you should well know, fleet use and private use are two different
animals. Someone with a fleet car doesn't care about it as long as it
is still functional and safe to drive. However, they would never put
up with the junky feel and increased NVH of worn components in their
own personal cars. Thus a cheaply made car will cost a private owner
much more over the long term than a well built one, unless the owner
*acts* like a fleet manager and trades it in every couple years.

nate

Mike Hunter wrote:
> As I said before you are entitle to your opinion but that does not mean it
> is the most valid. When I owned my fleet service business we serviced
> thousand of vehicles monthly, of nearly every brand you can name. With our
> meticulous service, as recorded in the records we accumulated, we saw little
> discernable differences on average among the vehicles on the market today.
> The only real difference is style and price and one need not spend at lot
> more money to buy a good dependable vehicle. Just a note, the manufacture
> with the most vehicles recalled so far for 2006 is Toyota. ;)
>
>
> mike hunt
>
>
> "N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1154557432.542481.193170@i3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> >
> > Mike Hunter wrote:
> >> Overtaking GM worldwide is more of a possibility than in the US. GM and
> >> Toyota do not necessarily compete in the same small markets around the
> >> world. The Japs have a better economies of scale in the small and
> >> midget
> >> cars, as well. As Toyota starts to sell vehicles in the US in the
> >> million
> >> rather than in the hundreds of thousands, as it has for a long time,
> >> more
> >> of their not so good ones are starting to come to the surface. Over time
> >> that will erode the buyers perception of their so call superior quality.
> >> Anybody in the business knows that Toyotas vehicles are no better on
> >> average
> >> than any other manufactures vehicles.
> >
> > Stop, you're killing me. Only a very few mfgrs. have the same
> > reputation for reliability and durability as Toyota. Really only Honda
> > has the same kind of "halo" although I am partial to VW myself (but
> > their shitty dealer network and past issues with poor quality
> > outsourced components has tarnished their reputation among the general
> > public.)
> >
> > Anyone that can say with a straight face that there is no difference in
> > quality between vehicles is quite simply ignorant. If that were true,
> > we'd all just buy the cheapest car we could. Simply test driving a
> > cross-section of the various cars in any given class will show up great
> > differences in fit and finish, material quality, etc. etc. etc. and to
> > disregard this is idiotic. Most people realize this, and try to strike
> > some compromise between quality and price.
> >
> > nate
> >

Re: GM U.S. July sales down 19.5 percent, Honda up 10.2%
 

As you should well know, fleet use and private use are two different
animals. Someone with a fleet car doesn't care about it as long as it
is still functional and safe to drive. However, they would never put
up with the junky feel and increased NVH of worn components in their
own personal cars. Thus a cheaply made car will cost a private owner
much more over the long term than a well built one, unless the owner
*acts* like a fleet manager and trades it in every couple years.

nate

Mike Hunter wrote:
> As I said before you are entitle to your opinion but that does not mean it
> is the most valid. When I owned my fleet service business we serviced
> thousand of vehicles monthly, of nearly every brand you can name. With our
> meticulous service, as recorded in the records we accumulated, we saw little
> discernable differences on average among the vehicles on the market today.
> The only real difference is style and price and one need not spend at lot
> more money to buy a good dependable vehicle. Just a note, the manufacture
> with the most vehicles recalled so far for 2006 is Toyota. ;)
>
>
> mike hunt
>
>
> "N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1154557432.542481.193170@i3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> >
> > Mike Hunter wrote:
> >> Overtaking GM worldwide is more of a possibility than in the US. GM and
> >> Toyota do not necessarily compete in the same small markets around the
> >> world. The Japs have a better economies of scale in the small and
> >> midget
> >> cars, as well. As Toyota starts to sell vehicles in the US in the
> >> million
> >> rather than in the hundreds of thousands, as it has for a long time,
> >> more
> >> of their not so good ones are starting to come to the surface. Over time
> >> that will erode the buyers perception of their so call superior quality.
> >> Anybody in the business knows that Toyotas vehicles are no better on
> >> average
> >> than any other manufactures vehicles.
> >
> > Stop, you're killing me. Only a very few mfgrs. have the same
> > reputation for reliability and durability as Toyota. Really only Honda
> > has the same kind of "halo" although I am partial to VW myself (but
> > their shitty dealer network and past issues with poor quality
> > outsourced components has tarnished their reputation among the general
> > public.)
> >
> > Anyone that can say with a straight face that there is no difference in
> > quality between vehicles is quite simply ignorant. If that were true,
> > we'd all just buy the cheapest car we could. Simply test driving a
> > cross-section of the various cars in any given class will show up great
> > differences in fit and finish, material quality, etc. etc. etc. and to
> > disregard this is idiotic. Most people realize this, and try to strike
> > some compromise between quality and price.
> >
> > nate
> >