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Re: GM U.S. July sales down 19.5 percent, Honda up 10.2%
On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 13:56:52 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
<mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote: >We are all entitled to our opinions I guess. What makes you believe the >'fuel(s) of the future' will be less expensive than >gasoline? Hydrogen is currently around $20 a gallon > >I've been in all three sides of the automotive business for a long time and >in the real world people buy what they want. History repeatedly tells us >what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful. Horse . Size and power are always a compromise between needs/desires of the buyer for capacity, price, fuel economy, maneuverability and other factors. Otherwise we would all be driving cars the size of the Queen Mary by now. >Look at what both Toyota and Honda have marketed over the past ten years. >They are ALL bigger and more powerful, with more new trucks and SUVs than >small cars. Todays Corolla is a bigger car than the Camry of yore. Where >the import have the advantage is that can import the midget cars the make >and sell around the world. They can't afford to build them in the US >anymore than domestics can. Well, I guess you have now obliquely defined what a "midget car" is. It must be the Yaris and Fit class of cars. No, these are not built here, at least not yet. (Where are they built?) You imply that these cars are why Honda and Toyota sales are booming while GM and Ford are in the dumper. The Yaris and Fit constitute only a tiny sliver of Toyota and Honda sales. They certainly don't explain why Pilot outsold Explorer last month. > Even though the imports have much lower labor >and benefits cost than the domestics in the US. When buyers warm to the >higher gas prices they will shun smaller cars just as they did after the >last big gas price jumps. Teh fact is we use far more gas at $3 than we did >when it was $2 I have to doubt any "fact" you post, but I do know for sure that truck-based SUV sales have been falling for the last four years. >Even if we could develop an alternative fuel to replace gasoline, the cost >of a delivery system alone would be in the billions, IF we can get it built >under the current pollution laws. If we did all that OPEC can simply lower >the price of crude and make ANY new fuel a more expensive option. We sill >never see any fuel for our cars that is less expensive, so the sooner you >become accustomed to it you can buy the big powerful car vehicle you want. The average American's wages haven't been keeping up with inflation since W got into office. Lots of Americans can't afford the gas for the Suburban they foolishly bought three years ago no matter how accustomed they become to $3/gal. The truck-based SUVs which kept GM and Ford afloat will not come back until gas drops below $2. Don't hold your breath. >;) > > >mike hunt > > >"N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message >news:1154557182.254540.173170@i3g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com... >> What you call the "midget class," oh top posting one, is the class of >> the future, at least until some kind of technological breakthrough >> allows us to move away from fossil fuels. The US mfgrs. should have >> known this but instead of planning long term, they've been milking the >> SUV craze while it lasted, and now they're paying for it. You're also >> completely disregarding reputation for quality, which is indisputably >> in favor of the imports. One thing that you got right in your post is >> that the Koreans are likely going to make a strong showing over the >> next couple years. >> >> nate >> >> Mike Hunter wrote: >>> You are entitled to your own opinion but I am simply stating facts. >>> Actually the fuel economy of the comparable cars and trucks that both GM >>> and >>> Ford have to offer are as good, or better. than import brands. Where >>> they >>> fall short is in the midget car class where the do not generally offer a >>> competitive vehicle. When one considers the drive home price difference >>> between the domestics and most imports, the domestics have the advantage >>> for >>> an astute buyer. One need prepay for their fuel by spending an extra 20% >>> or >>> 30% to get a few more MPG. The Koreans do a far better job of fuel >>> economy >>> for the price than the Japs. Both GM and Ford have more vehicles that >>> get >>> 30 or more MPG than any of the imports. >>> >>> >>> mike hunt > |
Re: GM U.S. July sales down 19.5 percent, Honda up 10.2%
On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 13:56:52 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
<mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote: >We are all entitled to our opinions I guess. What makes you believe the >'fuel(s) of the future' will be less expensive than >gasoline? Hydrogen is currently around $20 a gallon > >I've been in all three sides of the automotive business for a long time and >in the real world people buy what they want. History repeatedly tells us >what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful. Horse . Size and power are always a compromise between needs/desires of the buyer for capacity, price, fuel economy, maneuverability and other factors. Otherwise we would all be driving cars the size of the Queen Mary by now. >Look at what both Toyota and Honda have marketed over the past ten years. >They are ALL bigger and more powerful, with more new trucks and SUVs than >small cars. Todays Corolla is a bigger car than the Camry of yore. Where >the import have the advantage is that can import the midget cars the make >and sell around the world. They can't afford to build them in the US >anymore than domestics can. Well, I guess you have now obliquely defined what a "midget car" is. It must be the Yaris and Fit class of cars. No, these are not built here, at least not yet. (Where are they built?) You imply that these cars are why Honda and Toyota sales are booming while GM and Ford are in the dumper. The Yaris and Fit constitute only a tiny sliver of Toyota and Honda sales. They certainly don't explain why Pilot outsold Explorer last month. > Even though the imports have much lower labor >and benefits cost than the domestics in the US. When buyers warm to the >higher gas prices they will shun smaller cars just as they did after the >last big gas price jumps. Teh fact is we use far more gas at $3 than we did >when it was $2 I have to doubt any "fact" you post, but I do know for sure that truck-based SUV sales have been falling for the last four years. >Even if we could develop an alternative fuel to replace gasoline, the cost >of a delivery system alone would be in the billions, IF we can get it built >under the current pollution laws. If we did all that OPEC can simply lower >the price of crude and make ANY new fuel a more expensive option. We sill >never see any fuel for our cars that is less expensive, so the sooner you >become accustomed to it you can buy the big powerful car vehicle you want. The average American's wages haven't been keeping up with inflation since W got into office. Lots of Americans can't afford the gas for the Suburban they foolishly bought three years ago no matter how accustomed they become to $3/gal. The truck-based SUVs which kept GM and Ford afloat will not come back until gas drops below $2. Don't hold your breath. >;) > > >mike hunt > > >"N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message >news:1154557182.254540.173170@i3g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com... >> What you call the "midget class," oh top posting one, is the class of >> the future, at least until some kind of technological breakthrough >> allows us to move away from fossil fuels. The US mfgrs. should have >> known this but instead of planning long term, they've been milking the >> SUV craze while it lasted, and now they're paying for it. You're also >> completely disregarding reputation for quality, which is indisputably >> in favor of the imports. One thing that you got right in your post is >> that the Koreans are likely going to make a strong showing over the >> next couple years. >> >> nate >> >> Mike Hunter wrote: >>> You are entitled to your own opinion but I am simply stating facts. >>> Actually the fuel economy of the comparable cars and trucks that both GM >>> and >>> Ford have to offer are as good, or better. than import brands. Where >>> they >>> fall short is in the midget car class where the do not generally offer a >>> competitive vehicle. When one considers the drive home price difference >>> between the domestics and most imports, the domestics have the advantage >>> for >>> an astute buyer. One need prepay for their fuel by spending an extra 20% >>> or >>> 30% to get a few more MPG. The Koreans do a far better job of fuel >>> economy >>> for the price than the Japs. Both GM and Ford have more vehicles that >>> get >>> 30 or more MPG than any of the imports. >>> >>> >>> mike hunt > |
Re: GM U.S. July sales down 19.5 percent, Honda up 10.2%
On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 13:56:52 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
<mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote: >We are all entitled to our opinions I guess. What makes you believe the >'fuel(s) of the future' will be less expensive than >gasoline? Hydrogen is currently around $20 a gallon > >I've been in all three sides of the automotive business for a long time and >in the real world people buy what they want. History repeatedly tells us >what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful. Horse . Size and power are always a compromise between needs/desires of the buyer for capacity, price, fuel economy, maneuverability and other factors. Otherwise we would all be driving cars the size of the Queen Mary by now. >Look at what both Toyota and Honda have marketed over the past ten years. >They are ALL bigger and more powerful, with more new trucks and SUVs than >small cars. Todays Corolla is a bigger car than the Camry of yore. Where >the import have the advantage is that can import the midget cars the make >and sell around the world. They can't afford to build them in the US >anymore than domestics can. Well, I guess you have now obliquely defined what a "midget car" is. It must be the Yaris and Fit class of cars. No, these are not built here, at least not yet. (Where are they built?) You imply that these cars are why Honda and Toyota sales are booming while GM and Ford are in the dumper. The Yaris and Fit constitute only a tiny sliver of Toyota and Honda sales. They certainly don't explain why Pilot outsold Explorer last month. > Even though the imports have much lower labor >and benefits cost than the domestics in the US. When buyers warm to the >higher gas prices they will shun smaller cars just as they did after the >last big gas price jumps. Teh fact is we use far more gas at $3 than we did >when it was $2 I have to doubt any "fact" you post, but I do know for sure that truck-based SUV sales have been falling for the last four years. >Even if we could develop an alternative fuel to replace gasoline, the cost >of a delivery system alone would be in the billions, IF we can get it built >under the current pollution laws. If we did all that OPEC can simply lower >the price of crude and make ANY new fuel a more expensive option. We sill >never see any fuel for our cars that is less expensive, so the sooner you >become accustomed to it you can buy the big powerful car vehicle you want. The average American's wages haven't been keeping up with inflation since W got into office. Lots of Americans can't afford the gas for the Suburban they foolishly bought three years ago no matter how accustomed they become to $3/gal. The truck-based SUVs which kept GM and Ford afloat will not come back until gas drops below $2. Don't hold your breath. >;) > > >mike hunt > > >"N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message >news:1154557182.254540.173170@i3g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com... >> What you call the "midget class," oh top posting one, is the class of >> the future, at least until some kind of technological breakthrough >> allows us to move away from fossil fuels. The US mfgrs. should have >> known this but instead of planning long term, they've been milking the >> SUV craze while it lasted, and now they're paying for it. You're also >> completely disregarding reputation for quality, which is indisputably >> in favor of the imports. One thing that you got right in your post is >> that the Koreans are likely going to make a strong showing over the >> next couple years. >> >> nate >> >> Mike Hunter wrote: >>> You are entitled to your own opinion but I am simply stating facts. >>> Actually the fuel economy of the comparable cars and trucks that both GM >>> and >>> Ford have to offer are as good, or better. than import brands. Where >>> they >>> fall short is in the midget car class where the do not generally offer a >>> competitive vehicle. When one considers the drive home price difference >>> between the domestics and most imports, the domestics have the advantage >>> for >>> an astute buyer. One need prepay for their fuel by spending an extra 20% >>> or >>> 30% to get a few more MPG. The Koreans do a far better job of fuel >>> economy >>> for the price than the Japs. Both GM and Ford have more vehicles that >>> get >>> 30 or more MPG than any of the imports. >>> >>> >>> mike hunt > |
Re: GM U.S. July sales down 19.5 percent, Honda up 10.2%
On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 14:09:49 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
<mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote: > Just a note, the manufacture >with the most vehicles recalled so far for 2006 is Toyota. ;) You know, Mike, recalls aren't the best way to measure quality. The problem is that the numbers fluctuate wildly. Yesterday Toyota seemed well out in front and then today, BAM. Out of nowhere comes Ford recalling 1.2 million trucks to take the lead. http://www.ktva.com/topstory/ci_4132474 |
Re: GM U.S. July sales down 19.5 percent, Honda up 10.2%
On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 14:09:49 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
<mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote: > Just a note, the manufacture >with the most vehicles recalled so far for 2006 is Toyota. ;) You know, Mike, recalls aren't the best way to measure quality. The problem is that the numbers fluctuate wildly. Yesterday Toyota seemed well out in front and then today, BAM. Out of nowhere comes Ford recalling 1.2 million trucks to take the lead. http://www.ktva.com/topstory/ci_4132474 |
Re: GM U.S. July sales down 19.5 percent, Honda up 10.2%
On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 14:09:49 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
<mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote: > Just a note, the manufacture >with the most vehicles recalled so far for 2006 is Toyota. ;) You know, Mike, recalls aren't the best way to measure quality. The problem is that the numbers fluctuate wildly. Yesterday Toyota seemed well out in front and then today, BAM. Out of nowhere comes Ford recalling 1.2 million trucks to take the lead. http://www.ktva.com/topstory/ci_4132474 |
Re: GM still outsells Honda
At least you prefaced your post as your opinion because that is all it is,
an opinion based on your particular experience. The facts are as I presented them, but you are free to believe whatever you chose. mike hunt "N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1154653572.621516.98080@75g2000cwc.googlegrou ps.com... > > Mike Hunter wrote: > >> You have no idea what you are talking about. Fleet buyers do a far >> better >> job of maintaining their vehicles than the average owner. How may >> owners >> do you know that do things like changes brake fluid do pressure tests >> monthly, take off door panels to lubricate window actuators, take apart >> and >> clean electrical connectors etc? >> >> To a corporate fleet a vehicle is a 'tool' needed to run their business. >> Down time costs money. They generally keep them in service for five >> years >> or 300K WOF, because of federal deprecation tax laws. Many keep them >> even >> longer. >> To government fleets, maintenance is primary as well. To a police >> officer his patrol car is as important as his weapon, it has to work >> properly or it could cost him his life One state police department that >> we >> serviced, has Jeeps Cherokees from the eighties, with over 200k on the >> clock >> and still in tip top shape, in use in mountainous parts of the state.\ >> The only high volume buyers that don't care about their cars are most of >> the >> rental car companies. Top fluids and get it back on the road. The >> difference is to a rental car company vehicles are NOT a tool, but their >> product that they get rid off in a year or less. > > IME the fleet services treat the cars exactly like rental cars. When > they are turned in at 70K miles they are just about smack wore out > (well at least the Impalas the company that services the company that I > work for uses are!) > > nate > |
Re: GM still outsells Honda
At least you prefaced your post as your opinion because that is all it is,
an opinion based on your particular experience. The facts are as I presented them, but you are free to believe whatever you chose. mike hunt "N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1154653572.621516.98080@75g2000cwc.googlegrou ps.com... > > Mike Hunter wrote: > >> You have no idea what you are talking about. Fleet buyers do a far >> better >> job of maintaining their vehicles than the average owner. How may >> owners >> do you know that do things like changes brake fluid do pressure tests >> monthly, take off door panels to lubricate window actuators, take apart >> and >> clean electrical connectors etc? >> >> To a corporate fleet a vehicle is a 'tool' needed to run their business. >> Down time costs money. They generally keep them in service for five >> years >> or 300K WOF, because of federal deprecation tax laws. Many keep them >> even >> longer. >> To government fleets, maintenance is primary as well. To a police >> officer his patrol car is as important as his weapon, it has to work >> properly or it could cost him his life One state police department that >> we >> serviced, has Jeeps Cherokees from the eighties, with over 200k on the >> clock >> and still in tip top shape, in use in mountainous parts of the state.\ >> The only high volume buyers that don't care about their cars are most of >> the >> rental car companies. Top fluids and get it back on the road. The >> difference is to a rental car company vehicles are NOT a tool, but their >> product that they get rid off in a year or less. > > IME the fleet services treat the cars exactly like rental cars. When > they are turned in at 70K miles they are just about smack wore out > (well at least the Impalas the company that services the company that I > work for uses are!) > > nate > |
Re: GM still outsells Honda
At least you prefaced your post as your opinion because that is all it is,
an opinion based on your particular experience. The facts are as I presented them, but you are free to believe whatever you chose. mike hunt "N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1154653572.621516.98080@75g2000cwc.googlegrou ps.com... > > Mike Hunter wrote: > >> You have no idea what you are talking about. Fleet buyers do a far >> better >> job of maintaining their vehicles than the average owner. How may >> owners >> do you know that do things like changes brake fluid do pressure tests >> monthly, take off door panels to lubricate window actuators, take apart >> and >> clean electrical connectors etc? >> >> To a corporate fleet a vehicle is a 'tool' needed to run their business. >> Down time costs money. They generally keep them in service for five >> years >> or 300K WOF, because of federal deprecation tax laws. Many keep them >> even >> longer. >> To government fleets, maintenance is primary as well. To a police >> officer his patrol car is as important as his weapon, it has to work >> properly or it could cost him his life One state police department that >> we >> serviced, has Jeeps Cherokees from the eighties, with over 200k on the >> clock >> and still in tip top shape, in use in mountainous parts of the state.\ >> The only high volume buyers that don't care about their cars are most of >> the >> rental car companies. Top fluids and get it back on the road. The >> difference is to a rental car company vehicles are NOT a tool, but their >> product that they get rid off in a year or less. > > IME the fleet services treat the cars exactly like rental cars. When > they are turned in at 70K miles they are just about smack wore out > (well at least the Impalas the company that services the company that I > work for uses are!) > > nate > |
Re: GM still out sells Honda
You avoided the questions.......again What makes you believe the 'fuel(s)
of the future' will be less expensive than gasoline? If buyers really want small underpowered vehicles as you suggest, what do you think is the reason that every import brands vehicles got bigger and more powerful over the past ten years. The fact is they are ALL bigger and more powerful, with more new trucks and SUVs than small cars. Todays Civic a bigger car than any other Civic. mike hunt "Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:3fb5d2dt30pqhcuqbf5ll80hnsffvqnkng@4ax.com... > On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 13:56:52 -0400, "Mike Hunter" > <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote: > >>We are all entitled to our opinions I guess. What makes you believe the >>'fuel(s) of the future' will be less expensive than >>gasoline? Hydrogen is currently around $20 a gallon >> >>I've been in all three sides of the automotive business for a long time >>and >>in the real world people buy what they want. History repeatedly tells us >>what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful. > > Horse . Size and power are always a compromise between > needs/desires of the buyer for capacity, price, fuel economy, > maneuverability and other factors. Otherwise we would all be driving > cars the size of the Queen Mary by now. |
Re: GM still out sells Honda
You avoided the questions.......again What makes you believe the 'fuel(s)
of the future' will be less expensive than gasoline? If buyers really want small underpowered vehicles as you suggest, what do you think is the reason that every import brands vehicles got bigger and more powerful over the past ten years. The fact is they are ALL bigger and more powerful, with more new trucks and SUVs than small cars. Todays Civic a bigger car than any other Civic. mike hunt "Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:3fb5d2dt30pqhcuqbf5ll80hnsffvqnkng@4ax.com... > On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 13:56:52 -0400, "Mike Hunter" > <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote: > >>We are all entitled to our opinions I guess. What makes you believe the >>'fuel(s) of the future' will be less expensive than >>gasoline? Hydrogen is currently around $20 a gallon >> >>I've been in all three sides of the automotive business for a long time >>and >>in the real world people buy what they want. History repeatedly tells us >>what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful. > > Horse . Size and power are always a compromise between > needs/desires of the buyer for capacity, price, fuel economy, > maneuverability and other factors. Otherwise we would all be driving > cars the size of the Queen Mary by now. |
Re: GM still out sells Honda
You avoided the questions.......again What makes you believe the 'fuel(s)
of the future' will be less expensive than gasoline? If buyers really want small underpowered vehicles as you suggest, what do you think is the reason that every import brands vehicles got bigger and more powerful over the past ten years. The fact is they are ALL bigger and more powerful, with more new trucks and SUVs than small cars. Todays Civic a bigger car than any other Civic. mike hunt "Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:3fb5d2dt30pqhcuqbf5ll80hnsffvqnkng@4ax.com... > On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 13:56:52 -0400, "Mike Hunter" > <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote: > >>We are all entitled to our opinions I guess. What makes you believe the >>'fuel(s) of the future' will be less expensive than >>gasoline? Hydrogen is currently around $20 a gallon >> >>I've been in all three sides of the automotive business for a long time >>and >>in the real world people buy what they want. History repeatedly tells us >>what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful. > > Horse . Size and power are always a compromise between > needs/desires of the buyer for capacity, price, fuel economy, > maneuverability and other factors. Otherwise we would all be driving > cars the size of the Queen Mary by now. |
Re: GM still outsell Honda
That is true a recall simply means they have discover a problem and are
offering to fix it for free. However Ford has sold many million more vehicles than Toyota, for the past eight years, and Ford is not under indictment for trying to hide things for those eight years, as is the case with Toyota mike hunt "Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:4oo5d21c9gufh3e0qtfitirbep42ctg4ds@4ax.com... > On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 14:09:49 -0400, "Mike Hunter" > <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote: > >> Just a note, the manufacture >>with the most vehicles recalled so far for 2006 is Toyota. ;) > > You know, Mike, recalls aren't the best way to measure quality. The > problem is that the numbers fluctuate wildly. Yesterday Toyota seemed > well out in front and then today, BAM. Out of nowhere comes Ford > recalling 1.2 million trucks to take the lead. > > http://www.ktva.com/topstory/ci_4132474 > |
Re: GM still outsell Honda
That is true a recall simply means they have discover a problem and are
offering to fix it for free. However Ford has sold many million more vehicles than Toyota, for the past eight years, and Ford is not under indictment for trying to hide things for those eight years, as is the case with Toyota mike hunt "Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:4oo5d21c9gufh3e0qtfitirbep42ctg4ds@4ax.com... > On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 14:09:49 -0400, "Mike Hunter" > <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote: > >> Just a note, the manufacture >>with the most vehicles recalled so far for 2006 is Toyota. ;) > > You know, Mike, recalls aren't the best way to measure quality. The > problem is that the numbers fluctuate wildly. Yesterday Toyota seemed > well out in front and then today, BAM. Out of nowhere comes Ford > recalling 1.2 million trucks to take the lead. > > http://www.ktva.com/topstory/ci_4132474 > |
Re: GM still outsell Honda
That is true a recall simply means they have discover a problem and are
offering to fix it for free. However Ford has sold many million more vehicles than Toyota, for the past eight years, and Ford is not under indictment for trying to hide things for those eight years, as is the case with Toyota mike hunt "Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:4oo5d21c9gufh3e0qtfitirbep42ctg4ds@4ax.com... > On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 14:09:49 -0400, "Mike Hunter" > <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote: > >> Just a note, the manufacture >>with the most vehicles recalled so far for 2006 is Toyota. ;) > > You know, Mike, recalls aren't the best way to measure quality. The > problem is that the numbers fluctuate wildly. Yesterday Toyota seemed > well out in front and then today, BAM. Out of nowhere comes Ford > recalling 1.2 million trucks to take the lead. > > http://www.ktva.com/topstory/ci_4132474 > |
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