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Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota

In message
<8d121eff-d2f5-4e4d-85c8-20598b872323@y9g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>,
rick++ <rick303@hotmail.com> writes
>Why does it have to be a war?
>Under new mileage laws most vehicles will need hybrid technology
>next decade.
>Plus $5 - $10 gasoline WILL return in a matter of time.
>Better to work the bugs out now before get into high volumes.
Here in the UK we already pay over £4 a gallon what's that in your
money?
--
Clive

Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota

On Apr 13, 10:28 am, Clive <Cl...@yewbank.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Here in the UK we already pay over £4 a gallon what's that in your
> money?

At first glance, that would be $5.93, but a British gallon is larger
than a US gallon so the UK price would be $5.00 per US gallon.

--
Ron

Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota

"Clive" <Clive@yewbank.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:e33c6rABo14JFwPD@yewbank.demon.co.uk...
> In message
> <8d121eff-d2f5-4e4d-85c8-20598b872323@y9g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>, rick++
> <rick303@hotmail.com> writes
>>Why does it have to be a war?
>>Under new mileage laws most vehicles will need hybrid technology
>>next decade.
>>Plus $5 - $10 gasoline WILL return in a matter of time.
>>Better to work the bugs out now before get into high volumes.
> Here in the UK we already pay over £4 a gallon what's that in your money?
> --
> Clive
A little under $6.00. Doesn't that higher tax pay for your health care too?
If we added our health care costs to our gas costs we would be paying about
$10.00 gallon right now.

Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota

Elmo P. Shagnasty schreef:
> In article
> <d5645727-c223-4a20-8fcb-301320e93712@k2g2000yql.googlegroups.com>,
> residualselfimage1999@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> The joystick-parking button drive mode gave me strangest feeling
>> of all the really big differences - rather than have a different
>> position
>> for each drive mode (R,N,D,P,B) the joystick position normally is
>> in only one position and moving the joystick in a particular direction
>> (up, down, right, left) selects a drive mode. However, in order for
>> that drive mode to be selected the driver must press the brake
>> pedal (like a manual transmission clutch) to change the drive
>> mode
>
> Ummmmm.....actually, one needs press the brake pedal only to shift OUT
> of park.
>
> Not sure what you THINK you had to do, but if you were pressing the
> brake pedal to shift from D to N or B, you were doing it wrong.
>
When I backup from my driveway I switch from R to D without even
touching my brake. It works very smoothly. Only if you switch from N or
P to any drive mode you have to press the brake pedal, just like any
other automatic.
Thibaud

Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota

On Apr 13, 2:33 pm, Ron Peterson <r...@shell.core.com> wrote:

> At first glance, that would be $5.93, but a British gallon is larger
> than a US gallon so the UK price would be $5.00 per US gallon.

It reached $8 last year before the Pound tumbled.

Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota

On Apr 13, 6:29 am, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com>
wrote:
> In article
> <d5645727-c223-4a20-8fcb-301320e93...@k2g2000yql.googlegroups.com>,
>
> residualselfimage1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > The joystick-parking button drive mode gave me strangest feeling
> > of all the really big differences - rather than have a different
> > position
> > for each drive mode (R,N,D,P,B) the joystick position normally is
> > in only one position and moving the joystick in a particular direction
> > (up, down, right, left) selects a drive mode. However, in order for
> > that drive mode to be selected the driver must press the brake
> > pedal (like a manual transmission clutch) to change the drive
> > mode
>
> Ummmmm.....actually, one needs press the brake pedal only to shift OUT
> of park.
>
> Not sure what you THINK you had to do, but if you were pressing the
> brake pedal to shift from D to N or B, you were doing it wrong.
>
> What else were you doing wrong?

I only had a 30 second review of the operations of the Prius from
the rental agency - so initially what I knew was from the internet.
Luckily - there was an owner's manual in glove compartment
and I spent some time reading that on the second day I had
the car. Renting a Prius was a great way to learn more about
the it - I wish I could rent an Insight too ( but I don't think that
opportunity will arise atleast not locally where I live).

I think user manual should have spent more time explaining their
unique drive mode shifter - which I think was different enough from
standard transmission systems to warrant more space in the
user manual

However, even after reading the manual, I found that when I
I was getting the car out of park I would occasionally
shift it into drive when I meant to shift it into reverse. - and vice
versa. It was only when I focus on the blue LED display
that I could consistently do it right.

>
> > I've also read that the Prius' low rolling friction
> > tires don't perform that well in rain and snow....
>
> I read that too--and yet, I went through 40K miles and two winters
> without a hint of problem. Go figure.

I'm not sure whether to believe or discount what I've
been reading on the internet. However, it did freak me
out and when it was raining last saturday - i didn't
drive the prius.... I should have driven it in the rain
maybe in a empty parking lot to test the braking
in the rain - but I chickened out.

Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota

thanks for replying to my posting it was very informative.

On Apr 13, 2:24 am, Michelle Steiner <miche...@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article
> <d5645727-c223-4a20-8fcb-301320e93...@k2g2000yql.googlegroups.com>,
>
> residualselfimage1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > so I found myself constantly looking at the LED display to determine
> > if I was in the correct drive mode.
>
> Considering that there is only one drive mode, you're always in the
> correct drive mode. "B" is not a drive mode, and shouldn't be used
> except when driving on a long downhill. It took me less than an hour
> for that selector to become second nature.

hmm... considering that CVT and hybrids are
the wave of the future - I hope all this becomes
second nature to me soon...

>
> > However, the energy displays position in the center of the car is
> > somewhat distracting.
>
> One can change the display to something else, or even turn it off
> completely.

True
But -- I found myself constantly glancing at the energy
display to see how I could drive more efficiently.
I suppose as one racks up more experience with the Prius,
there is no need to view energy display.

>
> > I would have preferred an *energy* display next to speedometer
> > display
>
> That's coming with the 2010 model. In fact, the center display screen
> will be gone completely unless you have the GPS navigation package.
>
> > However, for sudden short stop-and-go traffic and driving uphill -
> > the Prius mpg suffered
>
> True, but it still gets better mileage under those conditions than other
> cars do, because their mileage suffers as well.
>
> > also I've read that the Prius MPG also suffers when it is really
> > cold.
>
> As do all internal-combustion engines.
>
> > If one is driving in very agressive highway environment or short
> > trips that are have a great deal of stop and go traffic - it would be
> > difficult for a driver to modify their driving to get the optimum
> > fuel efficiency from the 2009 Prius.
>
> True, but the same is also true of other cars.
>
> > I found the fuel gauge is not a linear indicator of how much fuel is
> > left in the Prius.
>
> That's true of all gas gauges, but the bladder makes it more so with the
> Prius; the bladder is in only the US versions of the car, BTW.

Even so - I really wish the Prius had an an accurate 3/4 1/2 and 1/4
mark
indicators on the gasoline gauge.

Another cool software option might be an overall
Consumption Screen that would show the consumption of gas and
the mileage achieved since the last gas fill up so you could ask
whether it was really worth it to fill up with premium gas?.

>
> > The Prius is suppose to have a 11.9 gallon fuel *bladder" ;
>
> The bladder will be gone with the 2010 model.
>
> > The sunlight had a tendency to washout the LCD screen it would have
> > been easier to read if the LCD screen had some sun visor over top of
> > it.
>
> That's because the LCD screen is polarized for left-hand drive. It's
> been a sore point for many drivers who have right-and drive models.
>
>
> > Not all of the buttons and dials on the dashboard and on the steering
> > wheel don't light up (at night) making them harder to find them in
> > the dark.
>
> Actually, all the ones on the steering wheel do, but they're not bright
> enough. The ones on the dash that don't light up are rarely used.

What didn't light up that I would have really like to have lite up at
night:
the power side mirror control buttons on the driver's door, the dial
controlling the air vents (maybe green glow-in-the-dark plastic
dials?) ,
the horn button on the steering wheel.

Where I would have liked led lights - inside the driver's center
console compartment (to identify where that plug is ),
I would have also like more preset buttons for the radio on the
touch screen radio control panel -

If I had more time with the prius I would have like to
study the climate control more.

>
> > The Prius isn't a very fast car - so merging into a superhighway is
> > its weakest trait.
>
> I've never had a problem with that; the car can go up to over 100 MPH,
> and I've found acceleration to be very brisk. It's not a muscle car,
> but it is peppy enough to not have any merge problems. I'm up to
> highway speed by the time I reach the end of the onramp, before I am in
> the merge lane.

my experience....
When merging into I-270 ( a maryland super highway) there
was a dozen vehicles going at 65 miles per hour all driving
with about three car lengths between each of them - When
accelerating the Prius up to 60 to 65 miles per hour on the merging
lane to parallel to the right lane it seems that some vehicles
these were *speeding up* just to try to make it more difficult
for the prius to merge into the right lane ..

The owner manual warned not to drive faster than 85mph
which is the maximum speed the car's tires are rated for.

>
> --
> It's now time for healing, and for fixing the damage the GOP did to America.

Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota

In article <22dddcf7-29b0-4763-a96a-00951ae0c7b0
@c36g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, (residualselfimage1999@gmail.com)
says...
> I'm not sure whether to believe or discount what I've
> been reading on the internet. However, it did freak me
> out and when it was raining last saturday - i didn't
> drive the prius.... I should have driven it in the rain
> maybe in a empty parking lot to test the braking
> in the rain - but I chickened out.
>
I've driven the Prius with the stock Goodyear Integrity tires in
torrential rain at highway speeds, as well as winding secondary roads,
and never had a problem.

Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota

In article <0bad91d1-c240-454f-9b87-c1d77851e028
@k38g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, (residualselfimage1999@gmail.com)
says...

> > Considering that there is only one drive mode, you're always in the
> > correct drive mode. "B" is not a drive mode, and shouldn't be used
> > except when driving on a long downhill. It took me less than an hour
> > for that selector to become second nature.
>
> hmm... considering that CVT and hybrids are
> the wave of the future - I hope all this becomes
> second nature to me soon...

The Prius shifter is neither a CVT nor a hybrid thing... it's a Prius
thing.

> But -- I found myself constantly glancing at the energy
> display to see how I could drive more efficiently.
> I suppose as one racks up more experience with the Prius,
> there is no need to view energy display.

I use the energy/consumption display all the time, and it's no more of a
distraction than any other gauge. All it requires is an occasional
glance, which is no different than checking your mirrors.

> Another cool software option might be an overall
> Consumption Screen that would show the consumption of gas and
> the mileage achieved since the last gas fill up...

The consumption screen shows MPG since last reset, and miles since last
fill-up. If you hit [Reset] at each fill-up, then you'll have your
overall MPG for the last tank.

> ...so you could ask
> whether it was really worth it to fill up with premium gas?.

Filling up with premium will not gain you anything, except for a lighter
wallet.

Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota

In article <MPG.2452cce5f51edc309896b7@news.giganews.com>,
Mr. G <mrg@aol.com> wrote:

> I've driven the Prius with the stock Goodyear Integrity tires in
> torrential rain at highway speeds, as well as winding secondary roads,
> and never had a problem.

That was my experience--down to the "torrential rain" thing, not to
mention a couple decent winters.

Mine's a company car; when they changed out the OEM tires a few weeks
ago and put on some God-knows-what things, my mileage dropped like a
rock. Hint: the Prius is a carefully engineered system, down to the
tires. Change out anything, including the tires, and you break the
system. Want to keep the mileage up? Keep with the Integritys (or
similar tires designed for high fuel efficiency using low rolling
resistance design).

Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota

On Mar 30, 10:31 pm, Mr. G <m...@aol.com> wrote:
> From what I've read and seen about the Insight, they seem to be going
> for a Prius exterior look, but it employs the same mild hybrid IMA set-
> up Honda used on the Civic, which left me totally unimpressed.

Back when the redesigned 2004 Prius came out in fall 2003, I remember
commenting on how the new Prius looked like the existing Honda Insight
and the existing Toyota Prius had a baby that was bigger than either
of the parents... So the current NHW20 Prius looks a lot like both
the older NHW11 Prius and the original Honda Insight. So it's no
surprise to me that the newly redesigned Honda Insight looks a lot
like the Prius (especially since the aerodynamic designs are so
similar).

The current Honda Civic Hybrid II is able to move short distances
without turning on the gasoline engine. The older HCH (pre 2006 or
so) had the same IMA setup as the previous Honda Insight.

Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota

On Apr 17, 5:03 pm, residualselfimage1...@gmail.com wrote:
> Another cool software option might be an overall
> Consumption Screen that would show the consumption of gas and
> the mileage achieved since the last gas fill up so you could ask
> whether it was really worth it to fill up with premium gas?.

I do recommend reading:
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/cons...tos/aut12.shtm
US Federal Trade Commission's Facts for Consumers - "The Low-Down on
High Octane Gasoline"

You should use whatever the owner's manual recommends. (For a US
Prius, that's 87 octane (regular), under the (R+M)/2 method (as posted
at the gas pumps), which is about 91 octane under the RON method.) If
your car is experiencing engine knock, then you should go up a grade
in octane. (But if your Prius IS knocking, something is wrong with
it!)

(To note, Prius in the UK use 95 octane (RON method, which equates to
about 91 octane ((R+M)/2 method) in the US).)

Octane is a measure of the fuel's ability to resist pre-detonation (or
engine knock).

Higher octane gasoline doesn't mean that it is necessarily cleaner or
better. "Premium" or "super" is a mis-nomer. All gasoline sold in the
US must meet certain federal EPA clean-burning guidelines. However,
some individual brands _may_ decide to put some extra cleaners or do
extra refining in their higher-octane fuel (as I've heard of some
brands advertising low-sulfur gasoline as only in their Premium line).

A higher octane gasoline actually has lower BTUs (energy content) than
a lower octane gasoline, so the only way that you'd see better fuel
economy by going up in octane is if you were previously using lower
than recommended octane in your car...

In the Toyota Prius, using higher than recommended octane fuel is
known to cause check engine lights with engine misfire codes, besides
the expected lower fuel economy.

(Ethanol also has a lower BTU content than does gasoline, so you can
expect to see slightly lower fuel economy using E10 fuel. The Prius
is not a flex-fuel vehicle, so do not use E85 in it (unless you want
check-engine lights and the potential for corroding out your fuel
system!)

If you live in a high altitude area (like the Rocky Mountains) usually
you can use the next octane level down from what is listed in the
owner's manual because of the altitude/thin air with no ill effects
(except if you come down from the altitude with a full tank!).

Reasons to use higher octane fuel:
1. Your owners manual calls for it
2. Your engine is knocking
3. It's the only way to get low-sulfur fuel in your area (sulfur will
slowly poison your catalyst, making emissions worse over time)
4. You like spending extra money on gasoline

See also:
Premium vs. Regular : http://cartalk.com/content/features/premium/

Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota

"mrv" <mrv@kluge.net> wrote in message
news:497a2f0d-fb1d-44f3-a38f-3791fdc053b5@x3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...

The 2004-2005 NWH20 Prius will reset the Consumption Screen
odometer/MPG at each fillup (more than about 3 gallons) automatically
(after one full revolution of the wheel?), or if you manually hit the
Reset button.

The 2006-2009 NHW20 Prius will only reset the Consumption Screen
odometer at each fillup automatically (same conditions as 2004-
2005). The Consumption Screen odometer/MPG will reset if you
manually hit the Reset button. (The cumulative MPG will only reset
if you press the Reset button.)

I have a 2005. If I read you correctly a later model would let me
accumulate a lifetime mileage figure by not hitting the reset button but
still let me see the number of miles on each tank. I could, therefore,
reset my trip odometer at the same time I reset my cumulative mpg and get
cumulative mileage figures for much longer periods like, for example, the
5000 miles between oil changes. Right?

Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota

"Was Istoben" <entshuldigen@oopla.com> wrote in message
news:49ea3ead@newsgate.x-privat.org...
>
> "mrv" <mrv@kluge.net> wrote in message
> news:497a2f0d-fb1d-44f3-a38f-3791fdc053b5@x3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
> The 2004-2005 NWH20 Prius will reset the Consumption Screen
> odometer/MPG at each fillup (more than about 3 gallons) automatically
> (after one full revolution of the wheel?), or if you manually hit the
> Reset button.
>
> The 2006-2009 NHW20 Prius will only reset the Consumption Screen
> odometer at each fillup automatically (same conditions as 2004-
> 2005). The Consumption Screen odometer/MPG will reset if you
> manually hit the Reset button. (The cumulative MPG will only reset
> if you press the Reset button.)
>
> I have a 2005. If I read you correctly a later model would let me
> accumulate a lifetime mileage figure by not hitting the reset button but
> still let me see the number of miles on each tank. I could, therefore,
> reset my trip odometer at the same time I reset my cumulative mpg and get
> cumulative mileage figures for much longer periods like, for example, the
> 5000 miles between oil changes. Right?
>

That is theoretically true, but I have my doubts about how reliably this
would be calculated. Does anyone have information on exactly how the
calculation is done?