Re: my civic and its timing belt
 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
snip for conciseness
> I think you were lucky, Ricky, or not the first person to loosen
those
> bolts.

It's crossed my mind to break my 91 Civic's pulley bolt free and then
torque it to spec once a year, to help preclude headaches when I
actually have to change the timing belt every six years/90k miles
(for my Civic).

I am convinced it's the heat cycling that raises the breakaway torque
to estimates of over 500 ft-lbs in many cases. That is, during
operation, the bolt gets very hot and stretches (expands). The
rotation of the crankshaft (of course so as to tighten the bolt) can
and does tighten the bolt. When the engine cools, the bolt contracts,
tightening it beyond the spec. of typically between 100-200 ft-lbs.

In industry, some large machinery applications have large bolts with
wells (holes) in them. By design, bolt heaters are inserted into them
to free them up, take apart the equipment, and the later re-assemble.
What's measured to achieve the proper tightness is not ft-lbs, but
length that the bolt stretches.

I've never heard of anyone seeing any dust on these pulley bolts. Mine
at 13 years and 150k miles looked new.

Re: my civic and its timing belt
 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
snip for conciseness
> I think you were lucky, Ricky, or not the first person to loosen
those
> bolts.

It's crossed my mind to break my 91 Civic's pulley bolt free and then
torque it to spec once a year, to help preclude headaches when I
actually have to change the timing belt every six years/90k miles
(for my Civic).

I am convinced it's the heat cycling that raises the breakaway torque
to estimates of over 500 ft-lbs in many cases. That is, during
operation, the bolt gets very hot and stretches (expands). The
rotation of the crankshaft (of course so as to tighten the bolt) can
and does tighten the bolt. When the engine cools, the bolt contracts,
tightening it beyond the spec. of typically between 100-200 ft-lbs.

In industry, some large machinery applications have large bolts with
wells (holes) in them. By design, bolt heaters are inserted into them
to free them up, take apart the equipment, and the later re-assemble.
What's measured to achieve the proper tightness is not ft-lbs, but
length that the bolt stretches.

I've never heard of anyone seeing any dust on these pulley bolts. Mine
at 13 years and 150k miles looked new.

Re: my civic and its timing belt
 

disallow wrote:
> Well I just thought I would tell the world that I actually
> did my timing belt myself! This is a big deal for me, since
> I've never done something like this before, though I would
> like to say that I am somewhat mechanically inclined.
>
> Some interesting things I learnt (and maybe others will want
> to know?):
>
> -The crank pulley bolt was really freakin tight. No, really
> it was quite ridiculous. I took it to Honda and they broke
> it for me (free of course!), it took them almost 25 minutes
> to get that little b5@%ch off.
> -I busted a water pump bolt whilst installing my new water
> pump. I was not happy. However, it appears that I realized
> in time that the bolt just wasn't getting tight, so I
> stopped trying to tighten it, and reversed. I must be lucky,
> because the broken portion of the bolt followed the head out
> of the hole, and I didn't have a mess on my hands. I have
> no idea how the hell I would have gotten a drill with an
> easy out in there, without lifting the motor 1/2 way out of
> the car. Yeesh.
> - Its a good thing to check over everything while you are
> underneath the car. I happened to notice that my Alternator
> pivot bolt was MISSING! I have no idea how the hell that
> happened, all I can say is "I didn't do it!" i had it in to
> do the alternator about a year ago. So sometime between
> then and now, the bolt worked its way out. Talk about
> SCARY.
>
> Anyways, enough of my rant. I'm just elated that I got it
> done.
>
> t
>
I tried to do the timing belt on a Toyota about 20 years ago and got
stuck at the crank pulley bolt. Then a friend said that all you do is
jam the socket wrench into the bumper, or whatever, and then just turn
the key ever so quickly. You just want to turn it over. Apparently it
spins off on it's own.

By the time I heard the trick I had gotten rid of the car. I wonder if
anyone had tried it with a honda?

Peter H

Re: my civic and its timing belt
 

disallow wrote:
> Well I just thought I would tell the world that I actually
> did my timing belt myself! This is a big deal for me, since
> I've never done something like this before, though I would
> like to say that I am somewhat mechanically inclined.
>
> Some interesting things I learnt (and maybe others will want
> to know?):
>
> -The crank pulley bolt was really freakin tight. No, really
> it was quite ridiculous. I took it to Honda and they broke
> it for me (free of course!), it took them almost 25 minutes
> to get that little b5@%ch off.
> -I busted a water pump bolt whilst installing my new water
> pump. I was not happy. However, it appears that I realized
> in time that the bolt just wasn't getting tight, so I
> stopped trying to tighten it, and reversed. I must be lucky,
> because the broken portion of the bolt followed the head out
> of the hole, and I didn't have a mess on my hands. I have
> no idea how the hell I would have gotten a drill with an
> easy out in there, without lifting the motor 1/2 way out of
> the car. Yeesh.
> - Its a good thing to check over everything while you are
> underneath the car. I happened to notice that my Alternator
> pivot bolt was MISSING! I have no idea how the hell that
> happened, all I can say is "I didn't do it!" i had it in to
> do the alternator about a year ago. So sometime between
> then and now, the bolt worked its way out. Talk about
> SCARY.
>
> Anyways, enough of my rant. I'm just elated that I got it
> done.
>
> t
>
I tried to do the timing belt on a Toyota about 20 years ago and got
stuck at the crank pulley bolt. Then a friend said that all you do is
jam the socket wrench into the bumper, or whatever, and then just turn
the key ever so quickly. You just want to turn it over. Apparently it
spins off on it's own.

By the time I heard the trick I had gotten rid of the car. I wonder if
anyone had tried it with a honda?

Peter H

Re: my civic and its timing belt
 

I wouldn't try that on a Honda, since the engine runs
COUNTER-CLOCKWISE. That means that if you tried that
little trick on a Honda, it would TIGHTEN the bolt, and perhaps
cause all sorts of headaches and cursing.

But your trick would work for pretty much any other car,
as long as it ran clockwise. (ie backwards from the way
it is meant to be.... hehehe)

t

Re: my civic and its timing belt
 

I wouldn't try that on a Honda, since the engine runs
COUNTER-CLOCKWISE. That means that if you tried that
little trick on a Honda, it would TIGHTEN the bolt, and perhaps
cause all sorts of headaches and cursing.

But your trick would work for pretty much any other car,
as long as it ran clockwise. (ie backwards from the way
it is meant to be.... hehehe)

t

Re: my civic and its timing belt
 

I did it once with my daughter's old Toyota, and it works... but it is
really scary. The front end rose up rapidly. (As you say, no way to do it on
the Honda.) For cars where there is room for that trick, a more controlled
version is to use a floor jack under the socket handle. That way if an
engine mount lets go or the handle pops off the jackstand, at least the
engine isn't still turning.

Mike

"disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message
news:2fc43da9785484d0d9c9780d2fc149e0@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
>I wouldn't try that on a Honda, since the engine runs
> COUNTER-CLOCKWISE. That means that if you tried that
> little trick on a Honda, it would TIGHTEN the bolt, and perhaps
> cause all sorts of headaches and cursing.
>
> But your trick would work for pretty much any other car,
> as long as it ran clockwise. (ie backwards from the way
> it is meant to be.... hehehe)
>
> t
>

Re: my civic and its timing belt
 

I did it once with my daughter's old Toyota, and it works... but it is
really scary. The front end rose up rapidly. (As you say, no way to do it on
the Honda.) For cars where there is room for that trick, a more controlled
version is to use a floor jack under the socket handle. That way if an
engine mount lets go or the handle pops off the jackstand, at least the
engine isn't still turning.

Mike

"disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message
news:2fc43da9785484d0d9c9780d2fc149e0@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
>I wouldn't try that on a Honda, since the engine runs
> COUNTER-CLOCKWISE. That means that if you tried that
> little trick on a Honda, it would TIGHTEN the bolt, and perhaps
> cause all sorts of headaches and cursing.
>
> But your trick would work for pretty much any other car,
> as long as it ran clockwise. (ie backwards from the way
> it is meant to be.... hehehe)
>
> t
>

Re: my civic and its timing belt
 

It's a good method, and will work sometimes. I have a 3/4 inch gun
just-in-case. It always works


--
Stephen W. Hansen
ASE Certified Auto Technician


"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message
news:F9KdnXmvgJ9Otw3cRVn-1Q@sedona.net...
>I did it once with my daughter's old Toyota, and it works... but it is
>really scary. The front end rose up rapidly. (As you say, no way to do it
>on the Honda.) For cars where there is room for that trick, a more
>controlled version is to use a floor jack under the socket handle. That way
>if an engine mount lets go or the handle pops off the jackstand, at least
>the engine isn't still turning.
>
> Mike
>
> "disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message
> news:2fc43da9785484d0d9c9780d2fc149e0@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
>>I wouldn't try that on a Honda, since the engine runs
>> COUNTER-CLOCKWISE. That means that if you tried that
>> little trick on a Honda, it would TIGHTEN the bolt, and perhaps
>> cause all sorts of headaches and cursing.
>>
>> But your trick would work for pretty much any other car,
>> as long as it ran clockwise. (ie backwards from the way
>> it is meant to be.... hehehe)
>>
>> t
>>
>
>

Re: my civic and its timing belt
 

It's a good method, and will work sometimes. I have a 3/4 inch gun
just-in-case. It always works


--
Stephen W. Hansen
ASE Certified Auto Technician


"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message
news:F9KdnXmvgJ9Otw3cRVn-1Q@sedona.net...
>I did it once with my daughter's old Toyota, and it works... but it is
>really scary. The front end rose up rapidly. (As you say, no way to do it
>on the Honda.) For cars where there is room for that trick, a more
>controlled version is to use a floor jack under the socket handle. That way
>if an engine mount lets go or the handle pops off the jackstand, at least
>the engine isn't still turning.
>
> Mike
>
> "disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message
> news:2fc43da9785484d0d9c9780d2fc149e0@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
>>I wouldn't try that on a Honda, since the engine runs
>> COUNTER-CLOCKWISE. That means that if you tried that
>> little trick on a Honda, it would TIGHTEN the bolt, and perhaps
>> cause all sorts of headaches and cursing.
>>
>> But your trick would work for pretty much any other car,
>> as long as it ran clockwise. (ie backwards from the way
>> it is meant to be.... hehehe)
>>
>> t
>>
>
>

Re: my civic and its timing belt
 

"Steve" <hansensw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JrYjd.868240$Gx4.741590@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> It's a good method, and will work sometimes. I have a 3/4 inch gun
> just-in-case. It always works
>
>
> --
> Stephen W. Hansen
> ASE Certified Auto Technician
>
>
What's the peak torque on that?

Mike
shade tree fixit man

Re: my civic and its timing belt
 

"Steve" <hansensw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JrYjd.868240$Gx4.741590@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> It's a good method, and will work sometimes. I have a 3/4 inch gun
> just-in-case. It always works
>
>
> --
> Stephen W. Hansen
> ASE Certified Auto Technician
>
>
What's the peak torque on that?

Mike
shade tree fixit man

Re: my civic and its timing belt
 

The gun I was using was 650 ft-lbs, with a 7.5HP 20Gal
compressor, and it still wouldn't break the bolt free...

Re: my civic and its timing belt
 

The gun I was using was 650 ft-lbs, with a 7.5HP 20Gal
compressor, and it still wouldn't break the bolt free...

Re: my civic and its timing belt
 

"disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message
news:5db1e080537ee127b7763eca808df732@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> The gun I was using was 650 ft-lbs, with a 7.5HP 20Gal
> compressor, and it still wouldn't break the bolt free...
>
I just bought a 500 ft-lb driver, and the Honda is no-go with that. I bought
it anyway because I know there are some driveaxles in my future, and the
smaller driver wouldn't handle them well. Oh, well - that one was only $30
anyway!

Next attempt: using a high temp (800F) heat gun on the bolt and then trying
the 500 ft-lb. If still no-go, I'll see what I can rent. Failing that, I'll
see what the dealer wants for breaking it loose.

Mike