Re: OT Cheney - Cutting Gas Tax Stupid
 

still just me wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 20:14:14 -0400, Bill Putney <bptn@kinez.net>
> wrote:
>
>>> There are few programs for the uninsured. The only "programs" in most
>>> states are the fact that if you show up in an emergency room they are
>>> obligated to treat you.
>> You are grossly ignorant about that which you write.
>
> Apparently you don't have much of a clue Bill. Please cite some of
> those programs for the uninsured - aside from the state reimbursing
> the hospital for uninsured (and uncollectable) emergency room care.

How is THAT not insurance?

>
> Aside from a few disjointed state programs, and a totalitarian effort
> now underway in MA, there is little out there for the uninsured.
>

That MA effort is an experiment that failed before it was conceived.
Just wait until people get their tax bills. That program will hit the
shitter faster than your ideas.

Re: OT Cheney - Cutting Gas Tax Stupid
 

still just me wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 00:36:19 -0500, Peaceful Bill
> <snails.pace@highspeedturtles.net> wrote:
>
>> Children already have insurance.
>
> Please back that up with any kind of evidence.
>
>> Why test embryonic stem cells when it
>> has been fact that older stem cells were capable of the same results.
>> And the stem cell research was to be done on EMBRYONIC stem cells, not
>> on unfertilized eggs.
>
> See "In vitro fertilization".
>

See "stem cells from mature donors".

Re: OT Cheney - Cutting Gas Tax Stupid
 

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 09:09:31 -0400, Bill Putney <bptn@kinez.net>
wrote:

>Gordon McGrew wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:44:50 -0400, Bill Putney <bptn@kinez.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Gordon McGrew wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 17:47:13 -0400, David Starr
>>>> <davestarr@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 16:02:16 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill Putney wrote:
>>>>>>> SMS wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ...Or do you believe, along with the neo-cons, that bankrupting the
>>>>>>>> country through massive deficit spending is the preferred path to take.
>>>>>>> Why yes - we believe that bankrupting the country is the answer.
>>>>>> Please vote for more Republicans if you like uncontrolled spending
>>>>>> without the revenue to fund it.
>>>>> Or vote for the Democrats for uncontrolled spending AND taxation.
>>>> At least it is more fiscally responsible and you get some benefit from
>>>> it.
>>> The benefit is...?
>>
>> Hopefully universal healthcare, although it will probably take ten or
>> twenty years to full institute.
>
>That is not a benefit IMO. I know we have problems (in healthcare), but
>gubmint-run universal healthcare is not the answer.

Gee, it is the answer in every other civilized country. Virtually any
of these systems would be preferable to what we have now.

If you think "Gubmint-run" healthcare is so bad, what is your plan to
replace Medicare? Should we keep working until we die so that we can
get employer health insurance? What about companies that don't
provide it? Would you have the old folks buy private insurance? What
do you suppose the cost would be today to buy a good policy for a
70-year-old man in average health? I would guess it would be at least
$5000 a month and you could still have substantial out-of-pocket
expenses. That is, if you could get insurance at all, which you
probably couldn't.

> It will be worse
>than what we have now. There are programs in place now to cover the
>otherwise uninsured.

So why do so many people pay out the nose for insurance? Yes, there
is Medicaid. A lot of people who have worked hard all their lives and
built up a little money find that they can't get or can't afford
private insurance. Then they get sick, go bankrupt and then they get
insurance.

>What else?

Let Medicare compete with private insurance.

>Bill Putney
>(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
>address with the letter 'x')

Re: OT Cheney - Cutting Gas Tax Stupid
 

Mike hunt wrote:
>
><rantonrave@mail.com> wrote in message
>news:52a96e70-44d0-4b65-bd40-2299b3104434@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>SMS wrote:
>>>Peaceful Bill wrote:
>>>
>>>>It makes sense to eliminate as much taxation as possible, then to start
>>>>cutting the entitlement programs to match the tax cuts. Then start
>>>>cutting again and eliminating programs again. Repeat. Tax revenues
>>>will actually increase due to the economic stimulii tax cuts produce.
>>>
>>>You've fallen for the big con.
>>>
>The cut of the top rate from 70% down to 28%, by Reagan, did stimulate
>the economy, but it was too far of a cut and Reagan eventually raised
>taxes, as did Bush Sr, and Clinton. The result was an eventual balancing
>of the budget during the Clinton administration. Bush Sr. can blame his
>very minor tax increase on his loss in 1992.
>
>>The Reagan tax cut dropped the top rate to 50%, but in reality few of
>>the wealthy paid even that much when the top was 70%, or even 90%, as
>>it was in the 1950s, thanks to wasteful tax shelters. The top rate
>>was cut to 28% during the second Reagan term, as part of a tax reform
>>plan that also eliminated any tax advantages for capital gains. On a
>>percentage basis, Reagan raised taxes as much as Clinton did.
>>
>Your source is?
>
My tax returns, my tax lawyer, and a little left-wing rag known as
INVESTORS BUSINESS DAILY. Everyone older than McCain, as you and I
are, knows Reagan raised taxes when it was apparent the supply-side
magic wasn't working as advertised.

Re: OT Cheney - Cutting Gas Tax Stupid
 

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:cMf2k.3398$uE5.1937@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com...
> Mike hunt wrote:
> > Before one decides to let the government do MORE to save us from
ourselves
> > one should consider the answers to several questions regarding what the
> > government has already done?
> >
> > What was the price of a gallon of gas before the Clean Air act?
>
> You can see the gasoline price history, in today's dollars, at
> "http://zfacts.com/p/35.html". The Clean Air Act took effect in 1990.
>
> There was no effect on gasoline prices due to the Clean Air Act. The
> price came down steadily until W was elected president.
>
> There was no effect on gasoline prices due to the CAFE standard.
> > What was the price of a gallon of gas before the CAFE?
>
> You can see the gasoline price history, in today's dollars, at
> "http://zfacts.com/p/35.html". The CAFE standard started in 1975.
>
> There was no effect on gasoline prices due to the CAFE standard. The
> price came down steadily until W was elected president.
>
> > What was the amount of the FEDERAL & STATE fuel taxes before CAFE?
>
> The federal tax rate was 4 cents a gallon both before and after CAFE.
> Under Reagan, it went up to 9 cents a gallon, eight years after CAFE was
> instituted. There are 50 states, so you can go check those.
>
> > Why are federal and state roads and bridges deteriorating?
>
> Spending money in Iraq rather than on our own infrastructure.

State money for roads does not go to Iraq....

>
> > How many refineries were built since the Clean Air act?
>
> Zero, but it had nothing to do with the Clean Air Act. It was an effort
> on the part of the oil companies to run fewer refineries at higher
> capacity, and to reduce refining capacity in order to drive up prices.

No.
The Libs and greenies have kept them from being built by sueing to save this
Worm and that plant...

>
> > How many refineries have been shut down since the Clean Air act?
>
> A lot, but it had nothing to do with the Clean Air Act. It was an effort
> on the part of the oil companies to run fewer refineries at higher
> capacity, and to reduce refining capacity in order to drive up prices.

There was no "intentional malice".


>
> > Why has the cost of diesel fuel gone up $1.60 more than the increase in
the
> > price of gasoline?
>
> Because people will pay $1.60 more for diesel so the oil companies can
> charge $1.60 more. Diesel costs less to refine than gasoline, even with
> the requirement for low sulfur diesel.

But Diesel is effectivly Home heating fuel and that demand has gone up....
and with Diesel being needed more and more in world markets (china and
india) there is less
available, hence a price hike...Supply and demand...

>
> > What was the average BTU content of a gallon of gas before enthanol was
> > mandated?
>
> 124,000.
>
> A gallon of Ethanol has 77,000 BTU, so a 10% Ethanol mixture would have
> 119,300 BTU.
>
> It uses far more BTU to make Ethanol than you get back from burning it.
> Only with government subsidies to artificially lower the price is
> Ethanol viable. Thank your friend's at Archers Daniel Midland, and their
> Republican pals in Congress for this boondoggle.

Yea...Just the republicans....algore didn't endorse this at all, and
nooooone of the other dems either....

> > What has happened to the cost of corn, wheat, oats and soy beans since
> > ethanol was mandated?
>
> Went up. Thank your friend's at Archers Daniel Midland, and their
> Republican pals in Congress for this boondoggle.

Se my last reply.....
>
> > Why not require a CAFE of 100 MPG?
>
> 100 MPG is impractical with current technology.

Agreed.

>
> > What will happen to the cost of everything we buy it the Congress enacts
a
> > carbon tax
>
> Unknown. Increased costs cannot always be passed along to the consumer,
> because the consumer can switch to other products, or in some case to no
> product at all.
>
> > Why does one think the government can do anything to help the average
> > working man in regard to fuel costs?
>
> Because some governments understand the law of supply and demand, and
> enact policies to drive down demand, which in turns lowers prices.

And some governments can subsidize their own fuel costs by offsetting it
with profits made from fuel.
Venezuela and most of the middle east are like that.
If we could drill here, we could prolly do it to.....
But, the Dems and liberals have prevented offshore drilling for 30 years, so
Cuba could drill instead....

>
> > Why do we keep electing the same nuts?
>
> We don't. W was elected only once. In 2000 Gore was elected, Bush was
> selected.

Still bitter that the process worked the way it was supposed to huh?

Re: OT Cheney - Cutting Gas Tax Stupid
 

"loewent" <loewent@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2611c9eb-699e-4cae-bb0a-5c07f7fe5c04@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > We just can't afford any more Republican presidents and their huge
> > > deficits, lack of foreign policy expertise, and their ties to big oil.
> >
> > BWAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAA
> >
> > FDR (DEMO-CRAT) got us in WWII....We didn't pay that debt off until
1978....
> >
> > GO LEARN BEFORE YOU SPEAK
>
> IIRC WW2 went from Sept 1, 1939 to Sept 2, 1945... at least for the
> rest of the world. In the US it started on Dec 7, 1941 when the Japs
> bomber Pearl Harbor. (How much did that cost?)

What part of PAY OF DEBT UNTIL 1978 did you miss?
We SPENT a lot of money to rebuilt Europe, and The Pacific.

Re: OT Cheney - Cutting Gas Tax Stupid
 

"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:tv81545eonl67m8rd2cl4v132dodfb5ltc@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 09:43:26 -0400, "Topp@Work" <topprolmc@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
> >news:qfX1k.3635$ZE5.2357@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com.. .
> >
> >> Every licensed non-commercial driver with a vehicle registered in their
> >> name gets the credit for one vehicle. Maybe a $5/gallon tax, with a
> >> $5/gallon tax credit for 365 gallons a year, i.e. an $1825 tax credit.
> >> Use less than 365 gallons a year and you're ahead of the game. Use
more,
> >> well it's up to you to commute solo in an SUV, or to drive the kids
> >> around in a minivan, or to live 50 miles from work.
> >
> >I use 365 gallons a month, just for work and groceries...
> >
> >You are a friggin Communist Tyrant
>
> LOL, you're the one supporting Saudi Arabia.

My oil is all Canadian....LOL

Re: OT Cheney - Cutting Gas Tax Stupid
 

On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:21:37 -0700 (PDT), "rantonrave@mail.com"
<rantonrave@mail.com> wrote:

>My tax returns, my tax lawyer, and a little left-wing rag known as
>INVESTORS BUSINESS DAILY. Everyone older than McCain, as you and I
>are, knows Reagan raised taxes when it was apparent the supply-side
>magic wasn't working as advertised.

The real burden fell on George "read my lips, no new taxes" Bush who
had to raise taxes appreciably to combat the wild overspending and
trillion $ deficits accumulated by Reagan. Note that the piper is
coming due now on GWB's wild overspending and trillion $ deficits.

Re: OT Cheney - Cutting Gas Tax Stupid
 

On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 13:09:21 -0500, Peaceful Bill
<snails.pace@highspeedturtles.net> wrote:

>still just me wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 20:14:14 -0400, Bill Putney <bptn@kinez.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> There are few programs for the uninsured. The only "programs" in most
>>>> states are the fact that if you show up in an emergency room they are
>>>> obligated to treat you.
>>> You are grossly ignorant about that which you write.
>>
>> Apparently you don't have much of a clue Bill. Please cite some of
>> those programs for the uninsured - aside from the state reimbursing
>> the hospital for uninsured (and uncollectable) emergency room care.
>
>How is THAT not insurance?

Apparently you don't know the definition of "insurance" vs. "state
payout for the uninsured". Perhaps a look at Webster's would help you
understand "Insurance - Coverage by a contract binding a party to
indemnify another against specified loss in return for premiums paid."

>> Aside from a few disjointed state programs, and a totalitarian effort
>> now underway in MA, there is little out there for the uninsured.
>>
>
>That MA effort is an experiment that failed before it was conceived.
>Just wait until people get their tax bills. That program will hit the
>shitter faster than your ideas.

I agree it's a nightmare. But MA residents likely won't notice since
their tax bills are already at ridiculous levels and the percentage
increase will be small by comparison. Some residents have noticed as
they are now REQUIRED to buy coverage or face a penalty when they file
taxes. That hasn't stopped the moronic effort though because those
folks are not influential in any way.

Re: OT Cheney - Cutting Gas Tax Stupid
 

On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 13:07:47 -0500, Peaceful Bill
<snails.pace@highspeedturtles.net> wrote:

>You seem to be one of the uneducated. So read slowly so you can
>understand. I'm not going to repeat this even if you just don't get it....
>
>Medicaid, Medicare. Any hospital MUST take patients even if they can't pay.
>
>And EVERYONE has the right to select and purchase health insurance, or
>to convert existing coverage.

The "right" to purchase? Yes - assuming they have the $10K a year for
a policy that still will have only 80% coverage, high out of pocket
costs, and $500-1000 deductibles per person. Or perhaps they have $5K
for a $5k deductible policy. Either way, you need a big chunk of
change to purchase your own coverage and you still pay a huge chunk
out of your pocket (because health insurance is a service policy, not
an insurance policy, except in catastrophic cases).

As for "converting existing coverage", I have to assume you are
referring to someone who has lost a job that provided insurance and
has been given a right under CORBA to start paying the policy
themselves. That coverage gets very expensive as soon as the employer
paid portion runs out.

You seem to be someone who has always had employer paid coverage which
they consider "free" - and not someone who has even run a company and
had to shoulder the $8K per year per employee or an individual who has
to pay $10K per year for short coverage.

Re: OT Cheney - Cutting Gas Tax Stupid
 

On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 13:07:47 -0500, Peaceful Bill
<snails.pace@highspeedturtles.net> wrote:

>You seem to be one of the uneducated. So read slowly so you can
>understand. I'm not going to repeat this even if you just don't get it....
>
>Medicaid, Medicare.

Do you have any idea how many people are not eligible for Medicaid or
Medicare yet still don't make enough to shell out $10K per year for
insurance after paying for housing and food? Word up - we're not
talking about the "poor" here, we're talking about millions of middle
class Americans.

>Any hospital MUST take patients even if they can't pay.

Only for emergencies. Try getting physical therapy for muscle and bone
injuries without insurance. Try getting a bad hip replaced without
insurance. Look into scoliosis treatment. The list goes on.

Re: OT Cheney - Cutting Gas Tax Stupid
 

On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:22:25 -0400, Bill Putney <bptn@kinez.net>
wrote:

>Medicaid. AFDC.

They are highly restricted by income. You really have no feel for the
depth of the health insurance problem.

Re: OT Cheney - Cutting Gas Tax Stupid
 

On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:12:31 -0700 (PDT), Foobar
<bamberbert@gmail.com> wrote:

>Ok. Show me one person in the 15% tax bracket that pays 15%. Just
>one.

By definition, everyone in the 15% bracket pays a marginal rate of
15%.

>
>On Jun 12, 11:27 pm, "rantonr...@mail.com" <rantonr...@mail.com>
>wrote:
>> SMS wrote:
>> >Peaceful Bill wrote:
>>
>> >>It makes sense to eliminate as much taxation as possible, then to start
>> >>cutting the entitlement programs to match the tax cuts. Then start
>> >>cutting again and eliminating programs again. Repeat. Tax revenues
>> >>will actually increase due to the economic stimulii tax cuts produce.
>>
>> >You've fallen for the big con.
>>
>> >The cut of the top rate from 70% down to 28%, by Reagan, did stimulate
>> >the economy, but it was too far of a cut and Reagan eventually raised
>> >taxes, as did Bush Sr, and Clinton. The result was an eventual balancing
>> >of the budget during the Clinton administration. Bush Sr. can blame his
>> >very minor tax increase on his loss in 1992.
>>
>> The Reagan tax cut dropped the top rate to 50%, but in reality few of
>> the wealthy paid even that much when the top was 70%, or even 90%, as
>> it was in the 1950s, thanks to wasteful tax shelters. The top rate
>> was cut to 28% during the second Reagan term, as part of a tax reform
>> plan that also eliminated any tax advantages for capital gains. On a
>> percentage basis, Reagan raised taxes as much as Clinton did.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -

Re: OT Cheney - Cutting Gas Tax Stupid
 

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:45:09 -0400, "Topp@Work"
<topprolmc@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:tv81545eonl67m8rd2cl4v132dodfb5ltc@4ax.com.. .
>> On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 09:43:26 -0400, "Topp@Work" <topprolmc@comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
>> >news:qfX1k.3635$ZE5.2357@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com.. .
>> >
>> >> Every licensed non-commercial driver with a vehicle registered in their
>> >> name gets the credit for one vehicle. Maybe a $5/gallon tax, with a
>> >> $5/gallon tax credit for 365 gallons a year, i.e. an $1825 tax credit.
>> >> Use less than 365 gallons a year and you're ahead of the game. Use
>more,
>> >> well it's up to you to commute solo in an SUV, or to drive the kids
>> >> around in a minivan, or to live 50 miles from work.
>> >
>> >I use 365 gallons a month, just for work and groceries...
>> >
>> >You are a friggin Communist Tyrant
>>
>> LOL, you're the one supporting Saudi Arabia.
>
>My oil is all Canadian....LOL

It is a commodity. All demand drives up the profits for all
producers.

Re: OT Cheney - Cutting Gas Tax Stupid
 

On 2008-06-20, Gordon McGrew <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:12:31 -0700 (PDT), Foobar
><bamberbert@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Ok. Show me one person in the 15% tax bracket that pays 15%. Just
>>one.
>
> By definition, everyone in the 15% bracket pays a marginal rate of
> 15%.

No, they do not. They pay 15% of their adjusted income.

--
Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
joe at hits - buffalo dot com
"Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
time..." - Danny, American History X