jim beam

Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>
> Clive wrote:
>> In message <C632E342.905A%epmeyer50@msn.com>, E. Meyer
>> <epmeyer50@msn.com> writes
>>
>>> My 2008 Nissan Altima manual specifies tire rotations every 7500
>>> miles, but
>>> it is in the owner's manual, not the shop manual. I think somebody is
>>> looking in the wrong place.
>>
>> I don't know anything about the Altima. I have had seven Nissan cars
>> over the last 30 years and each one has been an improvement on the
>> last, so imagine how disappointed I was to have a Dodge Avenger as a
>> hire car last I visited the sates, only to find that it STILL had drum
>> brakes on the rear.
>> How backward can you get, no wonder that the rest of the world is
>> avoiding Merkin cars and going Japanese, at least you're getting state
>> of the art, or as you would say, "more bang for your buck".
>
>
> Er, drum brakes in rear applications are a whole lot simpler than disks.
> much less costly to repair and MUCH easier to repair.
>
> Sometimes, new is NOT better...
>
> JT

disk brakes are more linear in application. technically, that makes for
a better brake.

and these days, most manufacturers on the high end at least, sensibly,
are using a hybrid disk/drum brake. the service brake is disk. the
parking brake is a drum inside the hub of the disk. that keeps both
sets of working parts simple and reliable. and in the event of
emergency, you still have a cool brake to use that hasn't faded yet.

Grumpy AuContraire

jim beam wrote:
> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Clive wrote:
>>
>>> In message <C632E342.905A%epmeyer50@msn.com>, E. Meyer
>>> <epmeyer50@msn.com> writes
>>>
>>>> My 2008 Nissan Altima manual specifies tire rotations every 7500
>>>> miles, but
>>>> it is in the owner's manual, not the shop manual. I think somebody is
>>>> looking in the wrong place.
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know anything about the Altima. I have had seven Nissan
>>> cars over the last 30 years and each one has been an improvement on
>>> the last, so imagine how disappointed I was to have a Dodge Avenger
>>> as a hire car last I visited the sates, only to find that it STILL
>>> had drum brakes on the rear.
>>> How backward can you get, no wonder that the rest of the world is
>>> avoiding Merkin cars and going Japanese, at least you're getting
>>> state of the art, or as you would say, "more bang for your buck".
>>
>>
>>
>> Er, drum brakes in rear applications are a whole lot simpler than
>> disks. much less costly to repair and MUCH easier to repair.
>>
>> Sometimes, new is NOT better...
>>
>> JT
>
>
> disk brakes are more linear in application. technically, that makes for
> a better brake.

Which doesn't amount to a hill of beans regarding rear brake performance.


> and these days, most manufacturers on the high end at least, sensibly,
> are using a hybrid disk/drum brake. the service brake is disk. the
> parking brake is a drum inside the hub of the disk. that keeps both
> sets of working parts simple and reliable. and in the event of
> emergency, you still have a cool brake to use that hasn't faded yet.

Oh sure, complicate the assembly which only gives marginally improved
performance at triple the price when considering original cost and
maintenance/repairs.

You sure are a gem to muddy the waters...

JT

Clive

In message <oMmQl.248401$4m1.3170@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> writes
>Oh sure, complicate the assembly which only gives marginally improved
>performance at triple the price when considering original cost and
>maintenance/repairs.
It's taken you a long time to catch up, most European/Japanese cars have
been like this for 20+ years.
--
Clive

jim beam

Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>
> jim beam wrote:
>> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Clive wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <C632E342.905A%epmeyer50@msn.com>, E. Meyer
>>>> <epmeyer50@msn.com> writes
>>>>
>>>>> My 2008 Nissan Altima manual specifies tire rotations every 7500
>>>>> miles, but
>>>>> it is in the owner's manual, not the shop manual. I think somebody is
>>>>> looking in the wrong place.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't know anything about the Altima. I have had seven Nissan
>>>> cars over the last 30 years and each one has been an improvement on
>>>> the last, so imagine how disappointed I was to have a Dodge Avenger
>>>> as a hire car last I visited the sates, only to find that it STILL
>>>> had drum brakes on the rear.
>>>> How backward can you get, no wonder that the rest of the world is
>>>> avoiding Merkin cars and going Japanese, at least you're getting
>>>> state of the art, or as you would say, "more bang for your buck".
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Er, drum brakes in rear applications are a whole lot simpler than
>>> disks. much less costly to repair and MUCH easier to repair.
>>>
>>> Sometimes, new is NOT better...
>>>
>>> JT
>>
>>
>> disk brakes are more linear in application. technically, that makes
>> for a better brake.
>
> Which doesn't amount to a hill of beans regarding rear brake performance.

why not just say front brake performance too and really get the old
cranium well below the sand?


>
>
>> and these days, most manufacturers on the high end at least, sensibly,
>> are using a hybrid disk/drum brake. the service brake is disk. the
>> parking brake is a drum inside the hub of the disk. that keeps both
>> sets of working parts simple and reliable. and in the event of
>> emergency, you still have a cool brake to use that hasn't faded yet.
>
> Oh sure, complicate the assembly which only gives marginally improved
> performance at triple the price when considering original cost and
> maintenance/repairs.

actually, it's cheaper for the manufacturer. drum brakes are cheap.
simple calipers are cheap. complex calipers with hand brake actuation
are complicated and difficult to implement, expensive and not too
reliable. and in addition to price, the combined drum/disk solution
gives better performance and safety! seems like a decent idea to me.


>
> You sure are a gem to muddy the waters...

you're the kind of guy that would complain about a strawberry shake with
real strawberries and real cream not being plain tepid milk.

Dave P

i am retired but work for hertz . hertz does not rotate tired and now
we put as much as 60000 miles on a car before it is taken out of
service. have noticed when tires are not rotated after about 25000
miles that start getting noisy. i usually rotate tires on my 2 cars
every 5000 miles and have not noticed this .

Clive

In message <xeydnfVvGNomgI_XnZ2dnUVZ_oydnZ2d@speakeasy.net> , jim beam
<me@privacy.net> writes
>actually, it's cheaper for the manufacturer. drum brakes are cheap.
And lead to brake fade, I've been there once, never again, anyone that
thinks differently has never had the experience.
> complex calipers with hand brake actuation are complicated and
>difficult to implement,
But not to difficult for the Japanese,
> expensive and not too reliable.
Not my experience,
> and in addition to price, the combined drum/disk solution gives
>better performance and safety! seems like a decent idea to me.
But is rubbish to me.
I've got a "cheap" Nissan Almera first registered in late 02, or as our
plates show "52", discs alround, and no problems. The Japanese make
cars worth driving, the Merkins don't, and the faster they realise that
the better their sales will be.
--
Clive