Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
07-17-2006, 01:58 PM
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
It starts fine when cold.
It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
starting hot.
Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
the car runs fine.
It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
cold starts.
And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
starts, it runs exactly as it should.
I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
(turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
on (startup):
if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
then
inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
and
run starter
end if
or
if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
then
inject standard fuel quantity
and
run starter
end if
But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
use, and floods it out.
--jm
Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
It starts fine when cold.
It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
starting hot.
Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
the car runs fine.
It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
cold starts.
And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
starts, it runs exactly as it should.
I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
(turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
on (startup):
if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
then
inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
and
run starter
end if
or
if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
then
inject standard fuel quantity
and
run starter
end if
But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
use, and floods it out.
--jm
07-17-2006, 01:58 PM
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
It starts fine when cold.
It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
starting hot.
Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
the car runs fine.
It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
cold starts.
And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
starts, it runs exactly as it should.
I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
(turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
on (startup):
if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
then
inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
and
run starter
end if
or
if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
then
inject standard fuel quantity
and
run starter
end if
But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
use, and floods it out.
--jm
Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
It starts fine when cold.
It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
starting hot.
Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
the car runs fine.
It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
cold starts.
And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
starts, it runs exactly as it should.
I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
(turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
on (startup):
if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
then
inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
and
run starter
end if
or
if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
then
inject standard fuel quantity
and
run starter
end if
But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
use, and floods it out.
--jm
07-17-2006, 01:58 PM
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
It starts fine when cold.
It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
starting hot.
Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
the car runs fine.
It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
cold starts.
And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
starts, it runs exactly as it should.
I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
(turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
on (startup):
if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
then
inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
and
run starter
end if
or
if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
then
inject standard fuel quantity
and
run starter
end if
But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
use, and floods it out.
--jm
Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
It starts fine when cold.
It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
starting hot.
Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
the car runs fine.
It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
cold starts.
And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
starts, it runs exactly as it should.
I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
(turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
on (startup):
if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
then
inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
and
run starter
end if
or
if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
then
inject standard fuel quantity
and
run starter
end if
But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
use, and floods it out.
--jm
07-17-2006, 08:40 PM
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
Jim Mowreader <xpr3@earthlink.net> wrote in news:xpr3-
FF5C10.13581317072006@news.west.earthlink.net:
> In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>
>> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
>
> The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
> It starts fine when cold.
> It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
> starting hot.
shouldn't make any difference on a fuel-injected car;there's no
"accelerator pump" to shoot more gas into the airstream.
> Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
> the car runs fine.
Or the main relay has cooled enough to work again.
>
> It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
>
> It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
> car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
> cold starts.
>
> And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
> starts, it runs exactly as it should.
>
> I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
> (turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
>
> on (startup):
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
> then
> inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
> and
> run starter
> end if
>
> or
>
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
> then
> inject standard fuel quantity
> and
> run starter
> end if
>
> But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
> already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
> use, and floods it out.
I don't believe that the change in fuel would be that significant,to flood
it out.(At temps other than winter conditions)
It's sounding more and more like the main relay.
Your other post says you have spark.
You say if you pushstart the car,it starts and runs.
The ECU would not know that,the starting mixture would be the same as if
you cranked it with the starter.
If it -were- flooded,pushstarting it would be no different.
Of course,removing and resoldering the relay is fairly easy and doesn't
cost anything,and ELIMINATES it as a problem.
You seem to be resisting this.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
FF5C10.13581317072006@news.west.earthlink.net:
> In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>
>> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
>
> The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
> It starts fine when cold.
> It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
> starting hot.
shouldn't make any difference on a fuel-injected car;there's no
"accelerator pump" to shoot more gas into the airstream.
> Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
> the car runs fine.
Or the main relay has cooled enough to work again.
>
> It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
>
> It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
> car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
> cold starts.
>
> And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
> starts, it runs exactly as it should.
>
> I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
> (turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
>
> on (startup):
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
> then
> inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
> and
> run starter
> end if
>
> or
>
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
> then
> inject standard fuel quantity
> and
> run starter
> end if
>
> But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
> already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
> use, and floods it out.
I don't believe that the change in fuel would be that significant,to flood
it out.(At temps other than winter conditions)
It's sounding more and more like the main relay.
Your other post says you have spark.
You say if you pushstart the car,it starts and runs.
The ECU would not know that,the starting mixture would be the same as if
you cranked it with the starter.
If it -were- flooded,pushstarting it would be no different.
Of course,removing and resoldering the relay is fairly easy and doesn't
cost anything,and ELIMINATES it as a problem.
You seem to be resisting this.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
07-17-2006, 08:40 PM
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
Jim Mowreader <xpr3@earthlink.net> wrote in news:xpr3-
FF5C10.13581317072006@news.west.earthlink.net:
> In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>
>> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
>
> The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
> It starts fine when cold.
> It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
> starting hot.
shouldn't make any difference on a fuel-injected car;there's no
"accelerator pump" to shoot more gas into the airstream.
> Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
> the car runs fine.
Or the main relay has cooled enough to work again.
>
> It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
>
> It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
> car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
> cold starts.
>
> And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
> starts, it runs exactly as it should.
>
> I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
> (turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
>
> on (startup):
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
> then
> inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
> and
> run starter
> end if
>
> or
>
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
> then
> inject standard fuel quantity
> and
> run starter
> end if
>
> But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
> already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
> use, and floods it out.
I don't believe that the change in fuel would be that significant,to flood
it out.(At temps other than winter conditions)
It's sounding more and more like the main relay.
Your other post says you have spark.
You say if you pushstart the car,it starts and runs.
The ECU would not know that,the starting mixture would be the same as if
you cranked it with the starter.
If it -were- flooded,pushstarting it would be no different.
Of course,removing and resoldering the relay is fairly easy and doesn't
cost anything,and ELIMINATES it as a problem.
You seem to be resisting this.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
FF5C10.13581317072006@news.west.earthlink.net:
> In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>
>> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
>
> The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
> It starts fine when cold.
> It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
> starting hot.
shouldn't make any difference on a fuel-injected car;there's no
"accelerator pump" to shoot more gas into the airstream.
> Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
> the car runs fine.
Or the main relay has cooled enough to work again.
>
> It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
>
> It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
> car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
> cold starts.
>
> And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
> starts, it runs exactly as it should.
>
> I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
> (turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
>
> on (startup):
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
> then
> inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
> and
> run starter
> end if
>
> or
>
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
> then
> inject standard fuel quantity
> and
> run starter
> end if
>
> But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
> already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
> use, and floods it out.
I don't believe that the change in fuel would be that significant,to flood
it out.(At temps other than winter conditions)
It's sounding more and more like the main relay.
Your other post says you have spark.
You say if you pushstart the car,it starts and runs.
The ECU would not know that,the starting mixture would be the same as if
you cranked it with the starter.
If it -were- flooded,pushstarting it would be no different.
Of course,removing and resoldering the relay is fairly easy and doesn't
cost anything,and ELIMINATES it as a problem.
You seem to be resisting this.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
07-17-2006, 08:40 PM
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
Jim Mowreader <xpr3@earthlink.net> wrote in news:xpr3-
FF5C10.13581317072006@news.west.earthlink.net:
> In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>
>> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
>
> The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
> It starts fine when cold.
> It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
> starting hot.
shouldn't make any difference on a fuel-injected car;there's no
"accelerator pump" to shoot more gas into the airstream.
> Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
> the car runs fine.
Or the main relay has cooled enough to work again.
>
> It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
>
> It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
> car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
> cold starts.
>
> And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
> starts, it runs exactly as it should.
>
> I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
> (turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
>
> on (startup):
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
> then
> inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
> and
> run starter
> end if
>
> or
>
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
> then
> inject standard fuel quantity
> and
> run starter
> end if
>
> But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
> already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
> use, and floods it out.
I don't believe that the change in fuel would be that significant,to flood
it out.(At temps other than winter conditions)
It's sounding more and more like the main relay.
Your other post says you have spark.
You say if you pushstart the car,it starts and runs.
The ECU would not know that,the starting mixture would be the same as if
you cranked it with the starter.
If it -were- flooded,pushstarting it would be no different.
Of course,removing and resoldering the relay is fairly easy and doesn't
cost anything,and ELIMINATES it as a problem.
You seem to be resisting this.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
FF5C10.13581317072006@news.west.earthlink.net:
> In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>
>> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
>
> The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
> It starts fine when cold.
> It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
> starting hot.
shouldn't make any difference on a fuel-injected car;there's no
"accelerator pump" to shoot more gas into the airstream.
> Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
> the car runs fine.
Or the main relay has cooled enough to work again.
>
> It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
>
> It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
> car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
> cold starts.
>
> And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
> starts, it runs exactly as it should.
>
> I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
> (turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
>
> on (startup):
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
> then
> inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
> and
> run starter
> end if
>
> or
>
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
> then
> inject standard fuel quantity
> and
> run starter
> end if
>
> But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
> already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
> use, and floods it out.
I don't believe that the change in fuel would be that significant,to flood
it out.(At temps other than winter conditions)
It's sounding more and more like the main relay.
Your other post says you have spark.
You say if you pushstart the car,it starts and runs.
The ECU would not know that,the starting mixture would be the same as if
you cranked it with the starter.
If it -were- flooded,pushstarting it would be no different.
Of course,removing and resoldering the relay is fairly easy and doesn't
cost anything,and ELIMINATES it as a problem.
You seem to be resisting this.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
07-17-2006, 08:40 PM
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
Jim Mowreader <xpr3@earthlink.net> wrote in news:xpr3-
FF5C10.13581317072006@news.west.earthlink.net:
> In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>
>> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
>
> The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
> It starts fine when cold.
> It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
> starting hot.
shouldn't make any difference on a fuel-injected car;there's no
"accelerator pump" to shoot more gas into the airstream.
> Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
> the car runs fine.
Or the main relay has cooled enough to work again.
>
> It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
>
> It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
> car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
> cold starts.
>
> And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
> starts, it runs exactly as it should.
>
> I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
> (turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
>
> on (startup):
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
> then
> inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
> and
> run starter
> end if
>
> or
>
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
> then
> inject standard fuel quantity
> and
> run starter
> end if
>
> But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
> already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
> use, and floods it out.
I don't believe that the change in fuel would be that significant,to flood
it out.(At temps other than winter conditions)
It's sounding more and more like the main relay.
Your other post says you have spark.
You say if you pushstart the car,it starts and runs.
The ECU would not know that,the starting mixture would be the same as if
you cranked it with the starter.
If it -were- flooded,pushstarting it would be no different.
Of course,removing and resoldering the relay is fairly easy and doesn't
cost anything,and ELIMINATES it as a problem.
You seem to be resisting this.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
FF5C10.13581317072006@news.west.earthlink.net:
> In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>
>> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
>
> The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
> It starts fine when cold.
> It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
> starting hot.
shouldn't make any difference on a fuel-injected car;there's no
"accelerator pump" to shoot more gas into the airstream.
> Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
> the car runs fine.
Or the main relay has cooled enough to work again.
>
> It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
>
> It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
> car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
> cold starts.
>
> And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
> starts, it runs exactly as it should.
>
> I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
> (turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
>
> on (startup):
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
> then
> inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
> and
> run starter
> end if
>
> or
>
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
> then
> inject standard fuel quantity
> and
> run starter
> end if
>
> But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
> already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
> use, and floods it out.
I don't believe that the change in fuel would be that significant,to flood
it out.(At temps other than winter conditions)
It's sounding more and more like the main relay.
Your other post says you have spark.
You say if you pushstart the car,it starts and runs.
The ECU would not know that,the starting mixture would be the same as if
you cranked it with the starter.
If it -were- flooded,pushstarting it would be no different.
Of course,removing and resoldering the relay is fairly easy and doesn't
cost anything,and ELIMINATES it as a problem.
You seem to be resisting this.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
07-17-2006, 09:55 PM
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
Jim Yanik wrote:
> Jim Mowreader <xpr3@earthlink.net> wrote in news:xpr3-
> FF5C10.13581317072006@news.west.earthlink.net:
>
>> In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
>> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>>
>>> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
>> The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
>> It starts fine when cold.
>> It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
>> starting hot.
>
> shouldn't make any difference on a fuel-injected car;there's no
> "accelerator pump" to shoot more gas into the airstream.
yeah, that one had me do a double take as well!
>
>> Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
>> the car runs fine.
>
> Or the main relay has cooled enough to work again.
>
>> It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
>>
>> It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
>> car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
>> cold starts.
>>
>> And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
>> starts, it runs exactly as it should.
>>
>> I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
>> (turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
>>
>> on (startup):
>> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
>> then
>> inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
>> and
>> run starter
>> end if
>>
>> or
>>
>> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
>> then
>> inject standard fuel quantity
>> and
>> run starter
>> end if
>>
>> But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
>> already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
>> use, and floods it out.
>
> I don't believe that the change in fuel would be that significant,to flood
> it out.(At temps other than winter conditions)
>
>
> It's sounding more and more like the main relay.
> Your other post says you have spark.
>
> You say if you pushstart the car,it starts and runs.
> The ECU would not know that,the starting mixture would be the same as if
> you cranked it with the starter.
> If it -were- flooded,pushstarting it would be no different.
>
>
> Of course,removing and resoldering the relay is fairly easy and doesn't
> cost anything,and ELIMINATES it as a problem.
> You seem to be resisting this.
>
>
> Jim Mowreader <xpr3@earthlink.net> wrote in news:xpr3-
> FF5C10.13581317072006@news.west.earthlink.net:
>
>> In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
>> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>>
>>> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
>> The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
>> It starts fine when cold.
>> It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
>> starting hot.
>
> shouldn't make any difference on a fuel-injected car;there's no
> "accelerator pump" to shoot more gas into the airstream.
yeah, that one had me do a double take as well!
>
>> Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
>> the car runs fine.
>
> Or the main relay has cooled enough to work again.
>
>> It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
>>
>> It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
>> car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
>> cold starts.
>>
>> And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
>> starts, it runs exactly as it should.
>>
>> I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
>> (turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
>>
>> on (startup):
>> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
>> then
>> inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
>> and
>> run starter
>> end if
>>
>> or
>>
>> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
>> then
>> inject standard fuel quantity
>> and
>> run starter
>> end if
>>
>> But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
>> already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
>> use, and floods it out.
>
> I don't believe that the change in fuel would be that significant,to flood
> it out.(At temps other than winter conditions)
>
>
> It's sounding more and more like the main relay.
> Your other post says you have spark.
>
> You say if you pushstart the car,it starts and runs.
> The ECU would not know that,the starting mixture would be the same as if
> you cranked it with the starter.
> If it -were- flooded,pushstarting it would be no different.
>
>
> Of course,removing and resoldering the relay is fairly easy and doesn't
> cost anything,and ELIMINATES it as a problem.
> You seem to be resisting this.
>
>
07-17-2006, 09:55 PM
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
Jim Yanik wrote:
> Jim Mowreader <xpr3@earthlink.net> wrote in news:xpr3-
> FF5C10.13581317072006@news.west.earthlink.net:
>
>> In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
>> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>>
>>> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
>> The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
>> It starts fine when cold.
>> It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
>> starting hot.
>
> shouldn't make any difference on a fuel-injected car;there's no
> "accelerator pump" to shoot more gas into the airstream.
yeah, that one had me do a double take as well!
>
>> Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
>> the car runs fine.
>
> Or the main relay has cooled enough to work again.
>
>> It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
>>
>> It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
>> car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
>> cold starts.
>>
>> And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
>> starts, it runs exactly as it should.
>>
>> I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
>> (turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
>>
>> on (startup):
>> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
>> then
>> inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
>> and
>> run starter
>> end if
>>
>> or
>>
>> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
>> then
>> inject standard fuel quantity
>> and
>> run starter
>> end if
>>
>> But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
>> already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
>> use, and floods it out.
>
> I don't believe that the change in fuel would be that significant,to flood
> it out.(At temps other than winter conditions)
>
>
> It's sounding more and more like the main relay.
> Your other post says you have spark.
>
> You say if you pushstart the car,it starts and runs.
> The ECU would not know that,the starting mixture would be the same as if
> you cranked it with the starter.
> If it -were- flooded,pushstarting it would be no different.
>
>
> Of course,removing and resoldering the relay is fairly easy and doesn't
> cost anything,and ELIMINATES it as a problem.
> You seem to be resisting this.
>
>
> Jim Mowreader <xpr3@earthlink.net> wrote in news:xpr3-
> FF5C10.13581317072006@news.west.earthlink.net:
>
>> In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
>> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>>
>>> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
>> The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
>> It starts fine when cold.
>> It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
>> starting hot.
>
> shouldn't make any difference on a fuel-injected car;there's no
> "accelerator pump" to shoot more gas into the airstream.
yeah, that one had me do a double take as well!
>
>> Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
>> the car runs fine.
>
> Or the main relay has cooled enough to work again.
>
>> It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
>>
>> It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
>> car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
>> cold starts.
>>
>> And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
>> starts, it runs exactly as it should.
>>
>> I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
>> (turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
>>
>> on (startup):
>> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
>> then
>> inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
>> and
>> run starter
>> end if
>>
>> or
>>
>> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
>> then
>> inject standard fuel quantity
>> and
>> run starter
>> end if
>>
>> But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
>> already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
>> use, and floods it out.
>
> I don't believe that the change in fuel would be that significant,to flood
> it out.(At temps other than winter conditions)
>
>
> It's sounding more and more like the main relay.
> Your other post says you have spark.
>
> You say if you pushstart the car,it starts and runs.
> The ECU would not know that,the starting mixture would be the same as if
> you cranked it with the starter.
> If it -were- flooded,pushstarting it would be no different.
>
>
> Of course,removing and resoldering the relay is fairly easy and doesn't
> cost anything,and ELIMINATES it as a problem.
> You seem to be resisting this.
>
>
07-17-2006, 09:55 PM
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
Jim Yanik wrote:
> Jim Mowreader <xpr3@earthlink.net> wrote in news:xpr3-
> FF5C10.13581317072006@news.west.earthlink.net:
>
>> In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
>> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>>
>>> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
>> The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
>> It starts fine when cold.
>> It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
>> starting hot.
>
> shouldn't make any difference on a fuel-injected car;there's no
> "accelerator pump" to shoot more gas into the airstream.
yeah, that one had me do a double take as well!
>
>> Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
>> the car runs fine.
>
> Or the main relay has cooled enough to work again.
>
>> It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
>>
>> It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
>> car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
>> cold starts.
>>
>> And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
>> starts, it runs exactly as it should.
>>
>> I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
>> (turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
>>
>> on (startup):
>> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
>> then
>> inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
>> and
>> run starter
>> end if
>>
>> or
>>
>> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
>> then
>> inject standard fuel quantity
>> and
>> run starter
>> end if
>>
>> But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
>> already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
>> use, and floods it out.
>
> I don't believe that the change in fuel would be that significant,to flood
> it out.(At temps other than winter conditions)
>
>
> It's sounding more and more like the main relay.
> Your other post says you have spark.
>
> You say if you pushstart the car,it starts and runs.
> The ECU would not know that,the starting mixture would be the same as if
> you cranked it with the starter.
> If it -were- flooded,pushstarting it would be no different.
>
>
> Of course,removing and resoldering the relay is fairly easy and doesn't
> cost anything,and ELIMINATES it as a problem.
> You seem to be resisting this.
>
>
> Jim Mowreader <xpr3@earthlink.net> wrote in news:xpr3-
> FF5C10.13581317072006@news.west.earthlink.net:
>
>> In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
>> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>>
>>> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
>> The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
>> It starts fine when cold.
>> It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
>> starting hot.
>
> shouldn't make any difference on a fuel-injected car;there's no
> "accelerator pump" to shoot more gas into the airstream.
yeah, that one had me do a double take as well!
>
>> Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
>> the car runs fine.
>
> Or the main relay has cooled enough to work again.
>
>> It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
>>
>> It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
>> car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
>> cold starts.
>>
>> And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
>> starts, it runs exactly as it should.
>>
>> I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
>> (turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
>>
>> on (startup):
>> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
>> then
>> inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
>> and
>> run starter
>> end if
>>
>> or
>>
>> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
>> then
>> inject standard fuel quantity
>> and
>> run starter
>> end if
>>
>> But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
>> already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
>> use, and floods it out.
>
> I don't believe that the change in fuel would be that significant,to flood
> it out.(At temps other than winter conditions)
>
>
> It's sounding more and more like the main relay.
> Your other post says you have spark.
>
> You say if you pushstart the car,it starts and runs.
> The ECU would not know that,the starting mixture would be the same as if
> you cranked it with the starter.
> If it -were- flooded,pushstarting it would be no different.
>
>
> Of course,removing and resoldering the relay is fairly easy and doesn't
> cost anything,and ELIMINATES it as a problem.
> You seem to be resisting this.
>
>
07-17-2006, 09:55 PM
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
Jim Yanik wrote:
> Jim Mowreader <xpr3@earthlink.net> wrote in news:xpr3-
> FF5C10.13581317072006@news.west.earthlink.net:
>
>> In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
>> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>>
>>> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
>> The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
>> It starts fine when cold.
>> It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
>> starting hot.
>
> shouldn't make any difference on a fuel-injected car;there's no
> "accelerator pump" to shoot more gas into the airstream.
yeah, that one had me do a double take as well!
>
>> Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
>> the car runs fine.
>
> Or the main relay has cooled enough to work again.
>
>> It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
>>
>> It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
>> car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
>> cold starts.
>>
>> And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
>> starts, it runs exactly as it should.
>>
>> I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
>> (turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
>>
>> on (startup):
>> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
>> then
>> inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
>> and
>> run starter
>> end if
>>
>> or
>>
>> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
>> then
>> inject standard fuel quantity
>> and
>> run starter
>> end if
>>
>> But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
>> already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
>> use, and floods it out.
>
> I don't believe that the change in fuel would be that significant,to flood
> it out.(At temps other than winter conditions)
>
>
> It's sounding more and more like the main relay.
> Your other post says you have spark.
>
> You say if you pushstart the car,it starts and runs.
> The ECU would not know that,the starting mixture would be the same as if
> you cranked it with the starter.
> If it -were- flooded,pushstarting it would be no different.
>
>
> Of course,removing and resoldering the relay is fairly easy and doesn't
> cost anything,and ELIMINATES it as a problem.
> You seem to be resisting this.
>
>
> Jim Mowreader <xpr3@earthlink.net> wrote in news:xpr3-
> FF5C10.13581317072006@news.west.earthlink.net:
>
>> In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
>> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>>
>>> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
>> The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
>> It starts fine when cold.
>> It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
>> starting hot.
>
> shouldn't make any difference on a fuel-injected car;there's no
> "accelerator pump" to shoot more gas into the airstream.
yeah, that one had me do a double take as well!
>
>> Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
>> the car runs fine.
>
> Or the main relay has cooled enough to work again.
>
>> It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
>>
>> It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
>> car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
>> cold starts.
>>
>> And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
>> starts, it runs exactly as it should.
>>
>> I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
>> (turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
>>
>> on (startup):
>> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
>> then
>> inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
>> and
>> run starter
>> end if
>>
>> or
>>
>> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
>> then
>> inject standard fuel quantity
>> and
>> run starter
>> end if
>>
>> But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
>> already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
>> use, and floods it out.
>
> I don't believe that the change in fuel would be that significant,to flood
> it out.(At temps other than winter conditions)
>
>
> It's sounding more and more like the main relay.
> Your other post says you have spark.
>
> You say if you pushstart the car,it starts and runs.
> The ECU would not know that,the starting mixture would be the same as if
> you cranked it with the starter.
> If it -were- flooded,pushstarting it would be no different.
>
>
> Of course,removing and resoldering the relay is fairly easy and doesn't
> cost anything,and ELIMINATES it as a problem.
> You seem to be resisting this.
>
>
07-17-2006, 10:01 PM
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
Jim Mowreader wrote:
> In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>
>> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
>
> The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
> It starts fine when cold.
> It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
> starting hot.
> Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
> the car runs fine.
dude, you don't "pump and pump" to hot start a potentially flooded
engine. you press the pedal to the floor and keep it there while you
crank. that tells the ecu to /not/ inject to clear a recognized
no-start condition.
>
> It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
that is an intermittent problem! exactly like a main relay.
>
> It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
> car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
> cold starts.
main relay.
>
> And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
> starts, it runs exactly as it should.
main relay.
>
> I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
> (turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
>
> on (startup):
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
> then
> inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
> and
> run starter
> end if
>
> or
>
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
> then
> inject standard fuel quantity
> and
> run starter
> end if
it's a little more complicated than that, but if you really want to
know, look up the open source injector code for "megasquirt". "google
ees yor frien'."
>
> But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
> already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
> use, and floods it out.
dude, fix the main relay, then come back and tell us if if your problems
persist.
> In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>
>> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
>
> The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
> It starts fine when cold.
> It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
> starting hot.
> Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
> the car runs fine.
dude, you don't "pump and pump" to hot start a potentially flooded
engine. you press the pedal to the floor and keep it there while you
crank. that tells the ecu to /not/ inject to clear a recognized
no-start condition.
>
> It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
that is an intermittent problem! exactly like a main relay.
>
> It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
> car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
> cold starts.
main relay.
>
> And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
> starts, it runs exactly as it should.
main relay.
>
> I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
> (turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
>
> on (startup):
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
> then
> inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
> and
> run starter
> end if
>
> or
>
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
> then
> inject standard fuel quantity
> and
> run starter
> end if
it's a little more complicated than that, but if you really want to
know, look up the open source injector code for "megasquirt". "google
ees yor frien'."
>
> But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
> already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
> use, and floods it out.
dude, fix the main relay, then come back and tell us if if your problems
persist.
07-17-2006, 10:01 PM
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
Jim Mowreader wrote:
> In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>
>> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
>
> The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
> It starts fine when cold.
> It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
> starting hot.
> Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
> the car runs fine.
dude, you don't "pump and pump" to hot start a potentially flooded
engine. you press the pedal to the floor and keep it there while you
crank. that tells the ecu to /not/ inject to clear a recognized
no-start condition.
>
> It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
that is an intermittent problem! exactly like a main relay.
>
> It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
> car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
> cold starts.
main relay.
>
> And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
> starts, it runs exactly as it should.
main relay.
>
> I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
> (turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
>
> on (startup):
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
> then
> inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
> and
> run starter
> end if
>
> or
>
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
> then
> inject standard fuel quantity
> and
> run starter
> end if
it's a little more complicated than that, but if you really want to
know, look up the open source injector code for "megasquirt". "google
ees yor frien'."
>
> But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
> already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
> use, and floods it out.
dude, fix the main relay, then come back and tell us if if your problems
persist.
> In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>
>> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
>
> The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
> It starts fine when cold.
> It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
> starting hot.
> Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
> the car runs fine.
dude, you don't "pump and pump" to hot start a potentially flooded
engine. you press the pedal to the floor and keep it there while you
crank. that tells the ecu to /not/ inject to clear a recognized
no-start condition.
>
> It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
that is an intermittent problem! exactly like a main relay.
>
> It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
> car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
> cold starts.
main relay.
>
> And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
> starts, it runs exactly as it should.
main relay.
>
> I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
> (turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
>
> on (startup):
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
> then
> inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
> and
> run starter
> end if
>
> or
>
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
> then
> inject standard fuel quantity
> and
> run starter
> end if
it's a little more complicated than that, but if you really want to
know, look up the open source injector code for "megasquirt". "google
ees yor frien'."
>
> But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
> already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
> use, and floods it out.
dude, fix the main relay, then come back and tell us if if your problems
persist.
07-17-2006, 10:01 PM
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
Jim Mowreader wrote:
> In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>
>> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
>
> The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
> It starts fine when cold.
> It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
> starting hot.
> Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
> the car runs fine.
dude, you don't "pump and pump" to hot start a potentially flooded
engine. you press the pedal to the floor and keep it there while you
crank. that tells the ecu to /not/ inject to clear a recognized
no-start condition.
>
> It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
that is an intermittent problem! exactly like a main relay.
>
> It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
> car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
> cold starts.
main relay.
>
> And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
> starts, it runs exactly as it should.
main relay.
>
> I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
> (turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
>
> on (startup):
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
> then
> inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
> and
> run starter
> end if
>
> or
>
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
> then
> inject standard fuel quantity
> and
> run starter
> end if
it's a little more complicated than that, but if you really want to
know, look up the open source injector code for "megasquirt". "google
ees yor frien'."
>
> But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
> already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
> use, and floods it out.
dude, fix the main relay, then come back and tell us if if your problems
persist.
> In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>
>> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
>
> The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
> It starts fine when cold.
> It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
> starting hot.
> Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
> the car runs fine.
dude, you don't "pump and pump" to hot start a potentially flooded
engine. you press the pedal to the floor and keep it there while you
crank. that tells the ecu to /not/ inject to clear a recognized
no-start condition.
>
> It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
that is an intermittent problem! exactly like a main relay.
>
> It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
> car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
> cold starts.
main relay.
>
> And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
> starts, it runs exactly as it should.
main relay.
>
> I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
> (turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
>
> on (startup):
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
> then
> inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
> and
> run starter
> end if
>
> or
>
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
> then
> inject standard fuel quantity
> and
> run starter
> end if
it's a little more complicated than that, but if you really want to
know, look up the open source injector code for "megasquirt". "google
ees yor frien'."
>
> But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
> already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
> use, and floods it out.
dude, fix the main relay, then come back and tell us if if your problems
persist.
07-17-2006, 10:01 PM
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange start problem...is my logic okay?
Jim Mowreader wrote:
> In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>
>> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
>
> The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
> It starts fine when cold.
> It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
> starting hot.
> Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
> the car runs fine.
dude, you don't "pump and pump" to hot start a potentially flooded
engine. you press the pedal to the floor and keep it there while you
crank. that tells the ecu to /not/ inject to clear a recognized
no-start condition.
>
> It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
that is an intermittent problem! exactly like a main relay.
>
> It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
> car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
> cold starts.
main relay.
>
> And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
> starts, it runs exactly as it should.
main relay.
>
> I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
> (turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
>
> on (startup):
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
> then
> inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
> and
> run starter
> end if
>
> or
>
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
> then
> inject standard fuel quantity
> and
> run starter
> end if
it's a little more complicated than that, but if you really want to
know, look up the open source injector code for "megasquirt". "google
ees yor frien'."
>
> But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
> already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
> use, and floods it out.
dude, fix the main relay, then come back and tell us if if your problems
persist.
> In article <Xns9803774C61447jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>,
> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>
>> Does the car not crank,or cranks but doesn't start? (when hot)
>
> The car cranks fine. It runs fine once engine starts.
> It starts fine when cold.
> It needs to have the gas pedal pumped and pumped and pumped when
> starting hot.
> Once the gas pedal is pumped enough during a hot start to get it to run,
> the car runs fine.
dude, you don't "pump and pump" to hot start a potentially flooded
engine. you press the pedal to the floor and keep it there while you
crank. that tells the ecu to /not/ inject to clear a recognized
no-start condition.
>
> It's not an intermittent problem; it happens on every hot start.
that is an intermittent problem! exactly like a main relay.
>
> It gives the indication of flooding only during hot starts; once the
> car's running, it runs like nothing's wrong with it. It doesn't flood on
> cold starts.
main relay.
>
> And this is the really weird part of the whole problem: once the car
> starts, it runs exactly as it should.
main relay.
>
> I'm thinking this is the logic the car uses when a start command
> (turning the key to the "start" position) is issued:
>
> on (startup):
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) < 120 deg F
> then
> inject additional fuel quantity for 10 seconds
> and
> run starter
> end if
>
> or
>
> if (start_switch) = "on" AND (coolant_temp) >= 120 deg F
> then
> inject standard fuel quantity
> and
> run starter
> end if
it's a little more complicated than that, but if you really want to
know, look up the open source injector code for "megasquirt". "google
ees yor frien'."
>
> But for some reason, this particular specimen can't figure out that it's
> already warm, so it dumps more fuel into the engine than the engine can
> use, and floods it out.
dude, fix the main relay, then come back and tell us if if your problems
persist.
