Robert Cohen

the lack of side airbags in most of the (inexpensive) cars sold in the new
dealer marketplace is an undiscussed/under-discussed phenomenon

and, according to a recent insurance industry-funded study highlighted on
DATELINE, our hyundais' side airbags aren't as effective as one would hope,
damnit

the on-going problem is upsetting and dismaying

if/when ya get clopped from the side, it may well be too late to kvetch to a
n.g.

b-t-w: my daughter, who was then college-age-, was apparently saved by an
airbag in the vehicle she was driving (hit by a drunk driver)

her shot-gun seating companion did not have an airbag to rely (secondarily)
upon

Daniel J. Stern

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004, SoCalMike wrote:

> >>unfortunately,we will never know about all the countless kids
> >>who have been saved, even when in the front seat, unbelted, etc.
> >
> > Er...no such kids exist.
>
> yes, they do.

Sorry, but data trump your guesses and opinions, unless you can show that
these allegedly airbag-saved kids exist outside of your head.

The data show that kids placed in the path of an airbag are injured or
killed. If they're out of the path of the airbag (front seat all the way
back) then the airbag doesn't enter into the equation.

There are no kids placed in the path of the airbag who are saved by it.

-DS

hyundaitech

This was once true because the government required automakers to design air
bags to protect unbelted occupants. The government has since changed
their requirements and many cars now have dual stage air bags.

hyundaitech

I won't go so far as to say that the system has no problem, but how stupid
do you need to be to sit in the seat with both you and the driver seeing
the message "Passenger Air Bag Off" to continue riding in that seat???

Alex Rodriguez

In article <8_zCc.127489$Gx4.63737@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
brian.nystrom@att.net says...

>Well, it appears that ABC overhyped the issue in it's typical style.
>First off, if the airbag isn't on, there's a clear indication on the
>dash. Secondly, it's not as big of an issue as they make it seem. My
>girlfriend weighs a whopping 115 pounds and the only time the airbag
>doesn't activate is if she has her feet up or is sitting with her legs
>crossed. It's not an issue at any other time.

If I was her, I would do what I could to make sure it was off anytime I
was in the car. Airbags and smaller persons can be a deadly combination.


>This is a classic case of a lawsuit induced problem. If idiots didn't
>put their kids in the front seats then sue when they get injured or
>killed by an airbag, weight sensors wouldn't be necessary.

More like if idiots didn't mandate airbags that kill, we wouldn't have
this problem.

-------------
Alex

Brian Nystrom

Alex Rodriguez wrote:
> In article <8_zCc.127489$Gx4.63737@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> brian.nystrom@att.net says...
>
>
>>Well, it appears that ABC overhyped the issue in it's typical style.
>>First off, if the airbag isn't on, there's a clear indication on the
>>dash. Secondly, it's not as big of an issue as they make it seem. My
>>girlfriend weighs a whopping 115 pounds and the only time the airbag
>>doesn't activate is if she has her feet up or is sitting with her legs
>>crossed. It's not an issue at any other time.
>
>
> If I was her, I would do what I could to make sure it was off anytime I
> was in the car. Airbags and smaller persons can be a deadly combination.

Why? She's more than big enough for the airbag to work properly.

>>This is a classic case of a lawsuit induced problem. If idiots didn't
>>put their kids in the front seats then sue when they get injured or
>>killed by an airbag, weight sensors wouldn't be necessary.
>
>
> More like if idiots didn't mandate airbags that kill, we wouldn't have
> this problem.

If people weren't so damn stupid and obstinate and would wear seatbelts,
we wouldn't need powerful airbags, or any airbags at all. Like it or
not, the fault ultimately lies with the attitudes of drivers.

David J and Lynne J Shepherd

Guys for what is worth as a Auto Insurance field adjuster for 10 years, I've
seen a lot of head on collisions of cars and trucks of all sizes, and I am
amazed at how people come out of these things unharmed, now I know there are
a lot of factors to account for this, modern crumple zones, the belts, the
bags, but something is working, these same collisions with a rigid ,non
belted ,non airbag car used to kill people.
"Alex Rodriguez" <adr5@columbia.edu> wrote in message
news:cbf6dk$5t1$7@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu...
> In article <8_zCc.127489$Gx4.63737@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> brian.nystrom@att.net says...
>
> >Well, it appears that ABC overhyped the issue in it's typical style.
> >First off, if the airbag isn't on, there's a clear indication on the
> >dash. Secondly, it's not as big of an issue as they make it seem. My
> >girlfriend weighs a whopping 115 pounds and the only time the airbag
> >doesn't activate is if she has her feet up or is sitting with her legs
> >crossed. It's not an issue at any other time.
>
> If I was her, I would do what I could to make sure it was off anytime I
> was in the car. Airbags and smaller persons can be a deadly combination.
>
>
> >This is a classic case of a lawsuit induced problem. If idiots didn't
> >put their kids in the front seats then sue when they get injured or
> >killed by an airbag, weight sensors wouldn't be necessary.
>
> More like if idiots didn't mandate airbags that kill, we wouldn't have
> this problem.
>
> -------------
> Alex
>




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Ben

Brian Nystrom wrote:
> If people weren't so damn stupid and obstinate and would wear seatbelts,
> we wouldn't need powerful airbags, or any airbags at all. Like it or
> not, the fault ultimately lies with the attitudes of drivers.

Even a person wearing a seatbelt can benefit from an airbag in an accident. I
doubt an airbag would be much good at all without a seatbelt being worn.

--
"What passes for wisdom may only be eloquent foolishness"

Cheap long distance calling using Onesuite (http://www.onesuite.com).
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Tony P.

In article <40db3b12_1@corp.newsgroups.com>, djsljsrn@capital.net
says...
> Guys for what is worth as a Auto Insurance field adjuster for 10 years, I've
> seen a lot of head on collisions of cars and trucks of all sizes, and I am
> amazed at how people come out of these things unharmed, now I know there are
> a lot of factors to account for this, modern crumple zones, the belts, the
> bags, but something is working, these same collisions with a rigid ,non
> belted ,non airbag car used to kill people.

Oh sure, modern crumple zones and safety cages are great things. The
difference between cars of today and cars of old is that now the car
gets totalled for the least little thing because they're designed to
self destruct in even minor accidents.

SoCalMike

David J and Lynne J Shepherd wrote:

> Guys for what is worth as a Auto Insurance field adjuster for 10 years, I've
> seen a lot of head on collisions of cars and trucks of all sizes, and I am
> amazed at how people come out of these things unharmed, now I know there are
> a lot of factors to account for this, modern crumple zones, the belts, the
> bags, but something is working, these same collisions with a rigid ,non
> belted ,non airbag car used to kill people.

did you see all those dead children? the ones in airbag equipped cars?

David J and Lynne J Shepherd

I am not supporting the across the board use of these airbags, certainly
early on in their use, there were tragic incidents, but with all the info
now and the gen11 system , most experts believe they will save lives. I am
just telling you what I experienced, I am sure if surveyed ,many people
would swear they were saved by them. Lots of anecdotal opinions and facts
are flying around on this issue, not diminish the tragic incidents, but how
many is "all the dead children", sounds kind of hysterical to me.
"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:wcICc.104581$eu.78356@attbi_s02...
>
>
> David J and Lynne J Shepherd wrote:
>
> > Guys for what is worth as a Auto Insurance field adjuster for 10 years,
I've
> > seen a lot of head on collisions of cars and trucks of all sizes, and I
am
> > amazed at how people come out of these things unharmed, now I know there
are
> > a lot of factors to account for this, modern crumple zones, the belts,
the
> > bags, but something is working, these same collisions with a rigid ,non
> > belted ,non airbag car used to kill people.
>
> did you see all those dead children? the ones in airbag equipped cars?




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BCDC

Recently had to take my XG in to get the radio replaced because it kept
turning itself on. I don't believe I'm the only one that's experienced that
problem. However, I had to take it in the first time for the dealer to check
out the circuits to make sure it wasn't just a wiring problem, or so I was
told. No, it WAS the radio. The dealer ordered one & I went back a couple of
weeks later to get the 'new' one installed. Dealer looked after me right
away BUT a 1/2 hour later I realized that the #%%$@*& CD player didn't work.
Now here's the catch, it takes me 5 hours round trip to go to the closest
dealer!!!! So far I've got 10 hours of drive time into getting what I think
should be straight forward warrant work done. The dealer is annoyed too that
they were given a defective radio but that's nothing compared to my 15 hours
driving into getting the &**% thing fixed by the time the next one is
installed.
On top of this I've got shimmy in the front end when I hit the brakes when
they are hot. I've told the dealer I want them fixed under warranty & if
they don't do it that way I can & will do it myself but then my next new car
won't be a Hyundai. That would be too bad b/c otherwise the vehicle has been
very acceptable.
BCinBC

Dave C.

"BCDC" <bcdc@netidea.com> wrote in message
news:cbfv2l023vh@enews1.newsguy.com...
> Recently had to take my XG in to get the radio replaced because it kept
> turning itself on. I don't believe I'm the only one that's experienced
that
> problem. However, I had to take it in the first time for the dealer to
check
> out the circuits to make sure it wasn't just a wiring problem, or so I was
> told. No, it WAS the radio. The dealer ordered one & I went back a couple
of
> weeks later to get the 'new' one installed. Dealer looked after me right
> away BUT a 1/2 hour later I realized that the #%%$@*& CD player didn't
work.
> Now here's the catch, it takes me 5 hours round trip to go to the closest
> dealer!!!! So far I've got 10 hours of drive time into getting what I
think
> should be straight forward warrant work done. The dealer is annoyed too
that
> they were given a defective radio but that's nothing compared to my 15
hours
> driving into getting the &**% thing fixed by the time the next one is
> installed.
> On top of this I've got shimmy in the front end when I hit the brakes when
> they are hot. I've told the dealer I want them fixed under warranty & if
> they don't do it that way I can & will do it myself but then my next new
car
> won't be a Hyundai. That would be too bad b/c otherwise the vehicle has
been
> very acceptable.
> BCinBC
>
>

With all that driving time, wouldn't it be easier to order a new CD stereo
from crutchfield with a free install kit to fit your car? In the end you'd
save money, and the stereo would be more reliable and sound better. Just a
suggestion. I know you shouldn't have to do this for a brand new car, but
what is your time worth? Good CD car stereos start around a hundred bucks,
so it's probably cheaper just to buy a new one and be done with it. If the
brand new original equipment replacement is defective, how long is the OEM
radio going to last even if you get a good one next time?

You are warping your front end brake rotors. That is something that
normally wouldn't be covered under any kind of manufacturer warranty. Brake
pads/rotors are usually considered consumable items, kind of like tires and
air filters. -Dave

R.White

SoCalMike <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<wcICc.104581$eu.78356@attbi_s02>...
> David J and Lynne J Shepherd wrote:
>
> > Guys for what is worth as a Auto Insurance field adjuster for 10 years, I've
> > seen a lot of head on collisions of cars and trucks of all sizes, and I am
> > amazed at how people come out of these things unharmed, now I know there are
> > a lot of factors to account for this, modern crumple zones, the belts, the
> > bags, but something is working, these same collisions with a rigid ,non
> > belted ,non airbag car used to kill people.
>
> did you see all those dead children? the ones in airbag equipped cars?

Did you see how they died?

Most were involved in accidents involving pre-impact braking amd were
unrestrained meaning they were thrown into the dash area before the
airbag
deployed. Sound more like bad parenting contributed to their deaths.

• Since 1990, 242 deaths reportedly have been caused by airbags
inflating in low severity crashes, most of them in older model
vehicles. These deaths include 84 drivers, 11 adult passengers, 124
children, and 23 infants.

• Of the 84 drivers killed by airbags, (63 females, 21 males), 53 are
believed to have been unbelted, 24 were belted, and 4 misused their
seatbelts. Two of the belted drivers were unconscious and slumped over
their steering wheels. Belt use is unknown for the other three
drivers.

• Of the 11 adult passengers killed by passenger airbags 9 were
females (7 were older than 65 years-old) and 2 were males ages 57 and
85. Seven adult passengers are believed to have been unbelted or
improperly belted, 4 were belted. Seven of the incidents involved
pre-impact braking.

• Of the 124 children killed by passenger airbags, 93 are believed to
have been unrestrained; 26 children were improperly restrained and 5
were restrained. Twenty of the unrestrained children were seated in
the lap of a front passenger and 3 were unrestrained and on the lap of
the driver. Most of these crashes involved pre-impact braking.

• Of the 23 infants killed by airbags, 12 are believed to be
restrained in rear-facing infant seats; 4 in rear-facing restraints on
laps; 5 were not properly secured in rear-facing restraints and 2
unknown if properly restrained. Sixteen cases involved pre-impact
braking and in 1 case pre-impact braking is unknown.

Brian Nystrom

Ben wrote:

> Brian Nystrom wrote:
>
>> If people weren't so damn stupid and obstinate and would wear
>> seatbelts, we wouldn't need powerful airbags, or any airbags at all.
>> Like it or not, the fault ultimately lies with the attitudes of drivers.
>
>
> Even a person wearing a seatbelt can benefit from an airbag in an
> accident. I doubt an airbag would be much good at all without a seatbelt
> being worn.

That's exactly the point, but people still refuse to wear belts, perhaps
even moreso when they have airbags, despite the warnings that come with
every car. The stupidity of the American public never ceases to amaze me.