Ed P

"Ed" <chztoast@gmail.com> wrote in message
> Wow, must be easy being oblivious. I'm not sure how you figure I'm jealous
> of how you spend your money. I just said that if you feel the need to brag
> about how you spend it in this post it's only to boost your ego.

If you were not offended or jealous, you'd never bring it up. Something
struck a nerve. Maybe it was the realization that you could still have a
maintained automobile and do some extra things in your life.


> You attacked the amount of money I "waste" on maintenance. Fine if you
> don't want to do maintenance on the same schedule, but you don't have to
> brag that you buy high ticket items and go on European vacations. All you
> had to do was say something like "I don't change them yearly, they should
> last longer than that." Or "I haven't needed to change my coolant in 5
> years and it is still fine." But no, you had to go and come off sounding
> like a douche. I'll agree that I may change some of my fluids more often
> than needed, but that's my choice.


Attacked? No, I but the money into a perspective that people can
understand. Do you have an unfulfilled desire to travel? Does seeing how
much you spend over the years hurt? I know people that could buy a new car
merely by stopping smoking.

I made no personal attack, but it you want to be a victim, you may.

jp103

I'm glad that you added the P to your user name. For a while I was
concerned that you were a dual personality.

Ed P wrote:
> "Ed" <chztoast@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> Wow, must be easy being oblivious. I'm not sure how you figure I'm jealous
>> of how you spend your money. I just said that if you feel the need to brag
>> about how you spend it in this post it's only to boost your ego.
>
> If you were not offended or jealous, you'd never bring it up. Something
> struck a nerve. Maybe it was the realization that you could still have a
> maintained automobile and do some extra things in your life.
>
>
>> You attacked the amount of money I "waste" on maintenance. Fine if you
>> don't want to do maintenance on the same schedule, but you don't have to
>> brag that you buy high ticket items and go on European vacations. All you
>> had to do was say something like "I don't change them yearly, they should
>> last longer than that." Or "I haven't needed to change my coolant in 5
>> years and it is still fine." But no, you had to go and come off sounding
>> like a douche. I'll agree that I may change some of my fluids more often
>> than needed, but that's my choice.
>
>
> Attacked? No, I but the money into a perspective that people can
> understand. Do you have an unfulfilled desire to travel? Does seeing how
> much you spend over the years hurt? I know people that could buy a new car
> merely by stopping smoking.
>
> I made no personal attack, but it you want to be a victim, you may.
>
>

Ed

On 1/21/2010 3:12 AM, Ed P wrote:
> "Ed"<chztoast@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> Wow, must be easy being oblivious. I'm not sure how you figure I'm jealous
>> of how you spend your money. I just said that if you feel the need to brag
>> about how you spend it in this post it's only to boost your ego.
>
> If you were not offended or jealous, you'd never bring it up. Something
> struck a nerve. Maybe it was the realization that you could still have a
> maintained automobile and do some extra things in your life.
>
>
>> You attacked the amount of money I "waste" on maintenance. Fine if you
>> don't want to do maintenance on the same schedule, but you don't have to
>> brag that you buy high ticket items and go on European vacations. All you
>> had to do was say something like "I don't change them yearly, they should
>> last longer than that." Or "I haven't needed to change my coolant in 5
>> years and it is still fine." But no, you had to go and come off sounding
>> like a douche. I'll agree that I may change some of my fluids more often
>> than needed, but that's my choice.
>
>
> Attacked? No, I but the money into a perspective that people can
> understand. Do you have an unfulfilled desire to travel? Does seeing how
> much you spend over the years hurt? I know people that could buy a new car
> merely by stopping smoking.
>
> I made no personal attack, but it you want to be a victim, you may.
>
>
I have wasted far too much of my time on a troll like you. I have added
you to my ignore list. Goodbye.

Ed P

"jp103" <jpoinier110522mi@nospamcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:hj9lfm$p4i$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> I'm glad that you added the P to your user name. For a while I was
> concerned that you were a dual personality.
>

Yes, but that does not mean I'm not crazy!

My computer died so I'm using my wife's until my new one is ready. Bought a
new computer with the money I saved on not changing spark plugs the last few
years.

Ed P

"Ed" <chztoast@gmail.com> wrote in message
> I have wasted far too much of my time on a troll like you. I have added
> you to my ignore list. Goodbye.

Aw, you'll still be reading and waiting for this reply. No, I'm not a troll
at all; look up the definition. You'd do better and be more accurate by
classifying me as a PITA.
Bye

Voyager

Ed wrote:
> On 1/19/2010 2:40 PM, Voyager wrote:

>> Stopped by the dealer today and they read the code, which this time was
>> there and the light was still on. I didn't write down the number, but I
>> believe he said it was a P2167. It was a "lean" indication and they
>> suspect the O2 sensor. I take the car in on Thursday to get it fixed.
>>
>> Matt
> Well at least now you know. I assume this will be repaired under warranty?

Actually, didn't know. I left the Sonata at the dealer today and they
now say the problem wasn't the O2 sensor after all and it really IS
reading a lean condition due to a leak at the intake manifold. They say
a new gasket is needed so we shall see.

I can't remember ever having an intake manifold gasket go bad, so I'm
somewhat suspicious that when they pull the manifold to replace the
gasket they will find something more serious such as a cracked or warped
manifold or head mating surface.

I assume this will be a warranty repair given that I'm the original
owner and the car is less than 10 years old and has less than 100,000 miles.

Has anyone else had a 2.4L engine with a failed intake manifold gasket?
hyundaitech, is this a failure mode you see often?

Matt

Voyager

Ed wrote:
> "Voyager" <m.whiting@computer.org> wrote in message
>> Stopped by the dealer today and they read the code, which this time was
>> there and the light was still on. I didn't write down the number, but I
>> believe he said it was a P2167. It was a "lean" indication and they
>> suspect the O2 sensor. I take the car in on Thursday to get it fixed.
>>
>> Matt
>
> Interesting. I wonder why it showed after a fill up. I'd have thought
> something like that would happen under any circumstances. It does prove
> that the shade tree mechanic is a thing of the past unless he has a code
> reader.
>
>

I am guessing now it was pure coincidence (see prior post about leaking
intake manifold gasket).

Matt

Ed

On 1/21/2010 8:13 PM, Voyager wrote:
> Ed wrote:
>> On 1/19/2010 2:40 PM, Voyager wrote:
>
>>> Stopped by the dealer today and they read the code, which this time was
>>> there and the light was still on. I didn't write down the number, but I
>>> believe he said it was a P2167. It was a "lean" indication and they
>>> suspect the O2 sensor. I take the car in on Thursday to get it fixed.
>>>
>>> Matt
>> Well at least now you know. I assume this will be repaired under
>> warranty?
>
> Actually, didn't know. I left the Sonata at the dealer today and they
> now say the problem wasn't the O2 sensor after all and it really IS
> reading a lean condition due to a leak at the intake manifold. They say
> a new gasket is needed so we shall see.
>
> I can't remember ever having an intake manifold gasket go bad, so I'm
> somewhat suspicious that when they pull the manifold to replace the
> gasket they will find something more serious such as a cracked or warped
> manifold or head mating surface.
>
> I assume this will be a warranty repair given that I'm the original
> owner and the car is less than 10 years old and has less than 100,000
> miles.
>
> Has anyone else had a 2.4L engine with a failed intake manifold gasket?
> hyundaitech, is this a failure mode you see often?
>
> Matt
I can't say I've ever heard of one going bad on a car so new either.

jp103

Ed P wrote:
> "jp103" <jpoinier110522mi@nospamcomcast.net> wrote in message
> news:hj9lfm$p4i$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> I'm glad that you added the P to your user name. For a while I was
>> concerned that you were a dual personality.
>>
>
> Yes, but that does not mean I'm not crazy!
>
> My computer died so I'm using my wife's until my new one is ready. Bought a
> new computer with the money I saved on not changing spark plugs the last few
> years.
>
>
LOL You can get a nice big monitor with the fluid and air filter
savings as well.

Voyager

Ed wrote:
> On 1/21/2010 8:13 PM, Voyager wrote:
>> Ed wrote:
>>> On 1/19/2010 2:40 PM, Voyager wrote:
>>
>>>> Stopped by the dealer today and they read the code, which this time was
>>>> there and the light was still on. I didn't write down the number, but I
>>>> believe he said it was a P2167. It was a "lean" indication and they
>>>> suspect the O2 sensor. I take the car in on Thursday to get it fixed.
>>>>
>>>> Matt
>>> Well at least now you know. I assume this will be repaired under
>>> warranty?
>>
>> Actually, didn't know. I left the Sonata at the dealer today and they
>> now say the problem wasn't the O2 sensor after all and it really IS
>> reading a lean condition due to a leak at the intake manifold. They say
>> a new gasket is needed so we shall see.
>>
>> I can't remember ever having an intake manifold gasket go bad, so I'm
>> somewhat suspicious that when they pull the manifold to replace the
>> gasket they will find something more serious such as a cracked or warped
>> manifold or head mating surface.
>>
>> I assume this will be a warranty repair given that I'm the original
>> owner and the car is less than 10 years old and has less than 100,000
>> miles.
>>
>> Has anyone else had a 2.4L engine with a failed intake manifold gasket?
>> hyundaitech, is this a failure mode you see often?
>>
>> Matt
> I can't say I've ever heard of one going bad on a car so new either.

It certainly seems odd to me. I hope it isn't a hint of things to come.
I had a 1984 Honda Accord that was a pretty good car until 4 years of
age and 60,000 miles. It began to systematically self-destruct at that
point and I have not owned anything since that said Honda on it (not
even lawn mowers!).

At least the Sonata has warranty left!!

Matt

hyundaitech

On Jan 12, 7:28 pm, Voyager <m.whit...@computer.org> wrote:
> hyundaitech wrote:
>
> > Unfortunately, no. Such is the case with nearly every OBD-II
> > product. You'll need an OBD-II code reader. If you're planning on
> > purchase, choose one that's CAN compatible so you'll get the most
> > future use out of it.
>
> I think my Chryslers are/were OBD II and they allow reading without the
> scan tool. I think my 84 Chevy is called a "partial" OBD II
> implementation. Maybe the foreign brands are different in this regard.
>
> Long story short. After being on for just less than two days, the light
> went out on its own accord at lunch time on Monday. Since I already had
> an appointment at the dealer for this morning I visited anyway thinking
> the code would have been stored. No code. I asked what might have
> happened and they shrugged and said this just happens now and then.
>
> I've never had an American car light the check engine light and then
> have no code found. Not exactly confidence inspiring...
>
> Matt

I agree that's a little odd. Normally, trouble codes remain for
longer than that, even after the lamp goes out, unless the battery
went dead or was disconnected.

Most faults require two successive failures to turn the lamp on, and
then three successive test pass results for the lamp to be turned
out.

Certain important faults will set the lamp at the first fault.

If there's only been one fault, the code is stored as "pending" and
will be erased if the next test passes. I suppose it's technically
possible that this was an important fault that only occurred once.

Of course, it's also possible that the technician didn't check all
necessary systems (engine and trans) or for whatever reason decided
the thing to do was to clear whatever the code was and simply deny its
existence since the check engine lamp was on.

hyundaitech

On Jan 15, 6:28 pm, Voyager <m.whit...@computer.org> wrote:
> Voyager wrote:
> > hyundaitech wrote:
>
> >> Unfortunately, no. Such is the case with nearly every OBD-II
> >> product. You'll need an OBD-II code reader. If you're planning on
> >> purchase, choose one that's CAN compatible so you'll get the most
> >> future use out of it.
>
> > I think my Chryslers are/were OBD II and they allow reading without the
> > scan tool. I think my 84 Chevy is called a "partial" OBD II
> > implementation. Maybe the foreign brands are different in this regard.
>
> > Long story short. After being on for just less than two days, the light
> > went out on its own accord at lunch time on Monday. Since I already had
> > an appointment at the dealer for this morning I visited anyway thinking
> > the code would have been stored. No code. I asked what might have
> > happened and they shrugged and said this just happens now and then.
>
> > I've never had an American car light the check engine light and then
> > have no code found. Not exactly confidence inspiring...
>
> > Matt
>
> Well, the light is back on again. Both times now it came on shortly
> after fueling the car. I'm thinking there may be a connection. I will
> see if it goes out again by itself and then if it comes on the next time
> I refuel, I will have something more to tell the dealer tech.
>
> Matt

I wonder if there's a problem with your fuel sending unit. Can't
remember off the top of my head whether it's monitored by the ECM.
Numerous problems with these in early production '06 Sonatas.

hyundaitech

On Jan 19, 5:40 pm, Voyager <m.whit...@computer.org> wrote:
> hyundaitech wrote:
> > On Jan 9, 8:18 pm, Voyager <m.whit...@computer.org> wrote:
> >> Hyundaitech,
>
> >> My Sonata threw a code tonight. Is a code reader the only way to access
> >> the code? Is there a secret handshake method such as what GM and
> >> Chrysler have had for years?
>
> >> For those who don't know, on both of these brands you can read many
> >> codes yourself. On the GM, you short two pins on the code reader
> >> connector and the code will flash on the check engine light. Chrysler
> >> is even smarter. There you, if memory serves, turn the ignition key
> >> from off to on to off to on to off again in less than something like 3
> >> seconds and the code will flash on the MIL.
>
> >> Does Hyundai have a secret handshake method?
>
> > Unfortunately, no. Such is the case with nearly every OBD-II
> > product. You'll need an OBD-II code reader. If you're planning on
> > purchase, choose one that's CAN compatible so you'll get the most
> > future use out of it.
>
> Stopped by the dealer today and they read the code, which this time was
> there and the light was still on. I didn't write down the number, but I
> believe he said it was a P2167. It was a "lean" indication and they
> suspect the O2 sensor. I take the car in on Thursday to get it fixed.
>
> Matt

Okay, skip the sender idea. I'm guessing you have a leaking intake
manifold gasket. Have done a few of these on 4-cyl '06 and newer
Sonatas. This would explain the roughness as well. In fact, it's
usually obvious if you remove the plastic engine cover and look
around.

Voyager

hyundaitech wrote:

> Okay, skip the sender idea. I'm guessing you have a leaking intake
> manifold gasket. Have done a few of these on 4-cyl '06 and newer
> Sonatas. This would explain the roughness as well. In fact, it's
> usually obvious if you remove the plastic engine cover and look
> around.

Yep, that appears to be it. Any idea why this is a common failure mode?
I've never before had a vehicle where the intake manifold gasket
failed and I've run several cars well over 100,000 miles.

Is the replacement gasket better than the original? Do I need to plan
to replace this every 50,000 miles on this engine?

Matt

hyundaitech

On Jan 24, 2:10 pm, Voyager <m.whit...@computer.org> wrote:
> hyundaitech wrote:
> > Okay, skip the sender idea. I'm guessing you have a leaking intake
> > manifold gasket. Have done a few of these on 4-cyl '06 and newer
> > Sonatas. This would explain the roughness as well. In fact, it's
> > usually obvious if you remove the plastic engine cover and look
> > around.
>
> Yep, that appears to be it. Any idea why this is a common failure mode?
> I've never before had a vehicle where the intake manifold gasket
> failed and I've run several cars well over 100,000 miles.
>
> Is the replacement gasket better than the original? Do I need to plan
> to replace this every 50,000 miles on this engine?
>
> Matt

My only suspicion is improper torque from the factory, either too
loose allowing the gasket to get sucked in, or too tight, damaging and
weakening the gasket so it can get sucked in. Usually, a portion of
the gasket indeed gets sucked in. I don't see enough failures to
expect that all cars will have it, just enough to know that with
certain symptoms, this is an excellent first place to look. In my
opinion, the gasket is stout enough-- a couple layers of thick paper
like most intake gaskets. Have seen no difference in construction
between replacement gaskets and the originals.