Red Hot Exhaust Manifold
11-04-2003, 04:10 PM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Red Hot Exhaust Manifold
Hi PPL
I have a 86 Hyundai Excell, the ehaust monifold gets yellow hot and is
visable during daylight hours. The problem only happens when the car is
driven
down the highway for 10 min or so. The first thing I suspected was a clogged
catalytic converter since it is bolted to the exhaust monifold. Ripped out
the catalytic converter, now the monifold is only red hot. The car was
running rough
so I suspected a timing problem. I reset the crankshaft and camshaft
timing, set the
distributor timing to 4 degrees BTDC (as per specs), the car idles better
now but the
monifold is still red hot. Tried a different pair of plugs, no go. Made
sure the choke was opening,
it's fine, ERG opens fine. Checked all vacume lines and replaced the ones
that were broken. Since I recently replaced the head gasket, I retorqued the
head, no go. Made sure the valve lash was correct (suspected that the
exhaust valves weren't closing all the way), no go. Replaced the timing
belt, no go. If I take off timing belt, when the crankshaft and camshaft are
dead on the timing marks, and turn the crankshaft back (counter clockwise)
two teeth on the timing belt, the exhaust manifold doesn't get red hot at
all and the car has lots more power. The only problem is that the idel is a
little high, and the timing range is off. What I mean by timing range is:
the whole range adjusting the distributor timing is 30 degrees BTDC to TDC,
none for ATDC. I's really stange that I would have to move the crankshaft
back two teeth to fix the problem, all logic says that the crankshaft and
camshaft should be set to thier respective timing marks. Does anybody any
any advice as I'm still dealing with this problem.
Thanks in advance
Mike AKA Deefer Dog
A word of advice "never pet a burning dog!!"
I have a 86 Hyundai Excell, the ehaust monifold gets yellow hot and is
visable during daylight hours. The problem only happens when the car is
driven
down the highway for 10 min or so. The first thing I suspected was a clogged
catalytic converter since it is bolted to the exhaust monifold. Ripped out
the catalytic converter, now the monifold is only red hot. The car was
running rough
so I suspected a timing problem. I reset the crankshaft and camshaft
timing, set the
distributor timing to 4 degrees BTDC (as per specs), the car idles better
now but the
monifold is still red hot. Tried a different pair of plugs, no go. Made
sure the choke was opening,
it's fine, ERG opens fine. Checked all vacume lines and replaced the ones
that were broken. Since I recently replaced the head gasket, I retorqued the
head, no go. Made sure the valve lash was correct (suspected that the
exhaust valves weren't closing all the way), no go. Replaced the timing
belt, no go. If I take off timing belt, when the crankshaft and camshaft are
dead on the timing marks, and turn the crankshaft back (counter clockwise)
two teeth on the timing belt, the exhaust manifold doesn't get red hot at
all and the car has lots more power. The only problem is that the idel is a
little high, and the timing range is off. What I mean by timing range is:
the whole range adjusting the distributor timing is 30 degrees BTDC to TDC,
none for ATDC. I's really stange that I would have to move the crankshaft
back two teeth to fix the problem, all logic says that the crankshaft and
camshaft should be set to thier respective timing marks. Does anybody any
any advice as I'm still dealing with this problem.
Thanks in advance
Mike AKA Deefer Dog
A word of advice "never pet a burning dog!!"
11-04-2003, 10:34 PM
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Red Hot Exhaust Manifold
160,000 Km
Looked at the on line Hyundai manuals, nothing to help me there.
Do you have any suggestions?
"pookeybrain" <munged@munged.xyz> wrote in message
news:dfVpb.102260$RP2.85727@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
>
> "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> news:vqg5dmtaag32b1@corp.supernews.com...
> > Hi PPL
> >
> > I have a 86 Hyundai Excell
>
> Wow! An on-topic post. ;-)
>
> Seriously though, how many miles are on the engine?
>
>
Looked at the on line Hyundai manuals, nothing to help me there.
Do you have any suggestions?
"pookeybrain" <munged@munged.xyz> wrote in message
news:dfVpb.102260$RP2.85727@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
>
> "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> news:vqg5dmtaag32b1@corp.supernews.com...
> > Hi PPL
> >
> > I have a 86 Hyundai Excell
>
> Wow! An on-topic post. ;-)
>
> Seriously though, how many miles are on the engine?
>
>
11-04-2003, 10:46 PM
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Red Hot Exhaust Manifold
coolant?
"Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:vqg5dmtaag32b1@corp.supernews.com...
> Hi PPL
>
> I have a 86 Hyundai Excell, the ehaust monifold gets yellow hot and is
> visable during daylight hours. The problem only happens when the car is
> driven
> down the highway for 10 min or so. The first thing I suspected was a
clogged
> catalytic converter since it is bolted to the exhaust monifold. Ripped out
> the catalytic converter, now the monifold is only red hot. The car was
> running rough
> so I suspected a timing problem. I reset the crankshaft and camshaft
> timing, set the
> distributor timing to 4 degrees BTDC (as per specs), the car idles better
> now but the
> monifold is still red hot. Tried a different pair of plugs, no go. Made
> sure the choke was opening,
> it's fine, ERG opens fine. Checked all vacume lines and replaced the ones
> that were broken. Since I recently replaced the head gasket, I retorqued
the
> head, no go. Made sure the valve lash was correct (suspected that the
> exhaust valves weren't closing all the way), no go. Replaced the timing
> belt, no go. If I take off timing belt, when the crankshaft and camshaft
are
> dead on the timing marks, and turn the crankshaft back (counter clockwise)
> two teeth on the timing belt, the exhaust manifold doesn't get red hot at
> all and the car has lots more power. The only problem is that the idel is
a
> little high, and the timing range is off. What I mean by timing range is:
> the whole range adjusting the distributor timing is 30 degrees BTDC to
TDC,
> none for ATDC. I's really stange that I would have to move the crankshaft
> back two teeth to fix the problem, all logic says that the crankshaft and
> camshaft should be set to thier respective timing marks. Does anybody any
> any advice as I'm still dealing with this problem.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Mike AKA Deefer Dog
>
> A word of advice "never pet a burning dog!!"
>
>
>
"Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:vqg5dmtaag32b1@corp.supernews.com...
> Hi PPL
>
> I have a 86 Hyundai Excell, the ehaust monifold gets yellow hot and is
> visable during daylight hours. The problem only happens when the car is
> driven
> down the highway for 10 min or so. The first thing I suspected was a
clogged
> catalytic converter since it is bolted to the exhaust monifold. Ripped out
> the catalytic converter, now the monifold is only red hot. The car was
> running rough
> so I suspected a timing problem. I reset the crankshaft and camshaft
> timing, set the
> distributor timing to 4 degrees BTDC (as per specs), the car idles better
> now but the
> monifold is still red hot. Tried a different pair of plugs, no go. Made
> sure the choke was opening,
> it's fine, ERG opens fine. Checked all vacume lines and replaced the ones
> that were broken. Since I recently replaced the head gasket, I retorqued
the
> head, no go. Made sure the valve lash was correct (suspected that the
> exhaust valves weren't closing all the way), no go. Replaced the timing
> belt, no go. If I take off timing belt, when the crankshaft and camshaft
are
> dead on the timing marks, and turn the crankshaft back (counter clockwise)
> two teeth on the timing belt, the exhaust manifold doesn't get red hot at
> all and the car has lots more power. The only problem is that the idel is
a
> little high, and the timing range is off. What I mean by timing range is:
> the whole range adjusting the distributor timing is 30 degrees BTDC to
TDC,
> none for ATDC. I's really stange that I would have to move the crankshaft
> back two teeth to fix the problem, all logic says that the crankshaft and
> camshaft should be set to thier respective timing marks. Does anybody any
> any advice as I'm still dealing with this problem.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Mike AKA Deefer Dog
>
> A word of advice "never pet a burning dog!!"
>
>
>
11-05-2003, 04:13 PM
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Red Hot Exhaust Manifold
"Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:vqgrubph2tenbd@corp.supernews.com...
> 160,000 Km
> Looked at the on line Hyundai manuals, nothing to help me there.
> Do you have any suggestions?
Humm. 1986 Excel. 160,000 Km.
I'm inclined to say that if it runs better with the timing belt offset by 2
teeth to leave it there.
If it was me, I'd leave the timing gears at their normal position and just
retard the distributor timing until the problem was resolved. That engine
has a lot of wear on it and things are a lot looser inside than they were
new.
11-05-2003, 08:07 PM
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Red Hot Exhaust Manifold
The engine is too lean. Why, I have no idea. Check timimg, O2 sensors,
etc. BTW, a clasic clogged cat symptom is stalling when you give it
gas from a stop, so I don't think that would be your problem. Bottom
line, not enough fuel.
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:10:01 -0600, "Mike Wilson"
<wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>Hi PPL
>
>I have a 86 Hyundai Excell, the ehaust monifold gets yellow hot and is
>visable during daylight hours. The problem only happens when the car is
>driven
>down the highway for 10 min or so. The first thing I suspected was a clogged
>catalytic converter since it is bolted to the exhaust monifold. Ripped out
>the catalytic converter, now the monifold is only red hot. The car was
>running rough
> so I suspected a timing problem. I reset the crankshaft and camshaft
>timing, set the
>distributor timing to 4 degrees BTDC (as per specs), the car idles better
>now but the
> monifold is still red hot. Tried a different pair of plugs, no go. Made
>sure the choke was opening,
>it's fine, ERG opens fine. Checked all vacume lines and replaced the ones
>that were broken. Since I recently replaced the head gasket, I retorqued the
>head, no go. Made sure the valve lash was correct (suspected that the
>exhaust valves weren't closing all the way), no go. Replaced the timing
>belt, no go. If I take off timing belt, when the crankshaft and camshaft are
>dead on the timing marks, and turn the crankshaft back (counter clockwise)
>two teeth on the timing belt, the exhaust manifold doesn't get red hot at
>all and the car has lots more power. The only problem is that the idel is a
>little high, and the timing range is off. What I mean by timing range is:
>the whole range adjusting the distributor timing is 30 degrees BTDC to TDC,
>none for ATDC. I's really stange that I would have to move the crankshaft
>back two teeth to fix the problem, all logic says that the crankshaft and
>camshaft should be set to thier respective timing marks. Does anybody any
>any advice as I'm still dealing with this problem.
>
>Thanks in advance
>Mike AKA Deefer Dog
>
>A word of advice "never pet a burning dog!!"
>
>
etc. BTW, a clasic clogged cat symptom is stalling when you give it
gas from a stop, so I don't think that would be your problem. Bottom
line, not enough fuel.
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:10:01 -0600, "Mike Wilson"
<wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>Hi PPL
>
>I have a 86 Hyundai Excell, the ehaust monifold gets yellow hot and is
>visable during daylight hours. The problem only happens when the car is
>driven
>down the highway for 10 min or so. The first thing I suspected was a clogged
>catalytic converter since it is bolted to the exhaust monifold. Ripped out
>the catalytic converter, now the monifold is only red hot. The car was
>running rough
> so I suspected a timing problem. I reset the crankshaft and camshaft
>timing, set the
>distributor timing to 4 degrees BTDC (as per specs), the car idles better
>now but the
> monifold is still red hot. Tried a different pair of plugs, no go. Made
>sure the choke was opening,
>it's fine, ERG opens fine. Checked all vacume lines and replaced the ones
>that were broken. Since I recently replaced the head gasket, I retorqued the
>head, no go. Made sure the valve lash was correct (suspected that the
>exhaust valves weren't closing all the way), no go. Replaced the timing
>belt, no go. If I take off timing belt, when the crankshaft and camshaft are
>dead on the timing marks, and turn the crankshaft back (counter clockwise)
>two teeth on the timing belt, the exhaust manifold doesn't get red hot at
>all and the car has lots more power. The only problem is that the idel is a
>little high, and the timing range is off. What I mean by timing range is:
>the whole range adjusting the distributor timing is 30 degrees BTDC to TDC,
>none for ATDC. I's really stange that I would have to move the crankshaft
>back two teeth to fix the problem, all logic says that the crankshaft and
>camshaft should be set to thier respective timing marks. Does anybody any
>any advice as I'm still dealing with this problem.
>
>Thanks in advance
>Mike AKA Deefer Dog
>
>A word of advice "never pet a burning dog!!"
>
>
11-06-2003, 12:41 AM
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Red Hot Exhaust Manifold
Yep the the timing seems to be the issue here. No O2 sensors! No Cat, if you
read the orginal post, I revoed the thing as I suspected that it was
clogged. BTW when I removed the cat, the manifold wasn't as hot (darker
shade of red)
so the engine is getting the proper vacume and fuel, if it was running lean,
it would run rough and I wouldn't be able to drive down the highway at
140Kph, defianatly not the cat and a lean fuel mixture. Ohh BTW the plugs
are a light tan colour suggesting that the fuel mixture is OK. Thanks for
the suggestion.
Mike
<none@email.com> wrote in message
news:2g7jqvsi2cu2h0iloe3831e912vj2s07o8@4ax.com...
> The engine is too lean. Why, I have no idea. Check timimg, O2 sensors,
> etc. BTW, a clasic clogged cat symptom is stalling when you give it
> gas from a stop, so I don't think that would be your problem. Bottom
> line, not enough fuel.
>
>
> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:10:01 -0600, "Mike Wilson"
> <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> >Hi PPL
> >
> >I have a 86 Hyundai Excell, the ehaust monifold gets yellow hot and is
> >visable during daylight hours. The problem only happens when the car is
> >driven
> >down the highway for 10 min or so. The first thing I suspected was a
clogged
> >catalytic converter since it is bolted to the exhaust monifold. Ripped
out
> >the catalytic converter, now the monifold is only red hot. The car was
> >running rough
> > so I suspected a timing problem. I reset the crankshaft and camshaft
> >timing, set the
> >distributor timing to 4 degrees BTDC (as per specs), the car idles better
> >now but the
> > monifold is still red hot. Tried a different pair of plugs, no go. Made
> >sure the choke was opening,
> >it's fine, ERG opens fine. Checked all vacume lines and replaced the ones
> >that were broken. Since I recently replaced the head gasket, I retorqued
the
> >head, no go. Made sure the valve lash was correct (suspected that the
> >exhaust valves weren't closing all the way), no go. Replaced the timing
> >belt, no go. If I take off timing belt, when the crankshaft and camshaft
are
> >dead on the timing marks, and turn the crankshaft back (counter
clockwise)
> >two teeth on the timing belt, the exhaust manifold doesn't get red hot at
> >all and the car has lots more power. The only problem is that the idel is
a
> >little high, and the timing range is off. What I mean by timing range is:
> >the whole range adjusting the distributor timing is 30 degrees BTDC to
TDC,
> >none for ATDC. I's really stange that I would have to move the crankshaft
> >back two teeth to fix the problem, all logic says that the crankshaft and
> >camshaft should be set to thier respective timing marks. Does anybody any
> >any advice as I'm still dealing with this problem.
> >
> >Thanks in advance
> >Mike AKA Deefer Dog
> >
> >A word of advice "never pet a burning dog!!"
> >
> >
>
read the orginal post, I revoed the thing as I suspected that it was
clogged. BTW when I removed the cat, the manifold wasn't as hot (darker
shade of red)
so the engine is getting the proper vacume and fuel, if it was running lean,
it would run rough and I wouldn't be able to drive down the highway at
140Kph, defianatly not the cat and a lean fuel mixture. Ohh BTW the plugs
are a light tan colour suggesting that the fuel mixture is OK. Thanks for
the suggestion.
Mike
<none@email.com> wrote in message
news:2g7jqvsi2cu2h0iloe3831e912vj2s07o8@4ax.com...
> The engine is too lean. Why, I have no idea. Check timimg, O2 sensors,
> etc. BTW, a clasic clogged cat symptom is stalling when you give it
> gas from a stop, so I don't think that would be your problem. Bottom
> line, not enough fuel.
>
>
> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:10:01 -0600, "Mike Wilson"
> <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> >Hi PPL
> >
> >I have a 86 Hyundai Excell, the ehaust monifold gets yellow hot and is
> >visable during daylight hours. The problem only happens when the car is
> >driven
> >down the highway for 10 min or so. The first thing I suspected was a
clogged
> >catalytic converter since it is bolted to the exhaust monifold. Ripped
out
> >the catalytic converter, now the monifold is only red hot. The car was
> >running rough
> > so I suspected a timing problem. I reset the crankshaft and camshaft
> >timing, set the
> >distributor timing to 4 degrees BTDC (as per specs), the car idles better
> >now but the
> > monifold is still red hot. Tried a different pair of plugs, no go. Made
> >sure the choke was opening,
> >it's fine, ERG opens fine. Checked all vacume lines and replaced the ones
> >that were broken. Since I recently replaced the head gasket, I retorqued
the
> >head, no go. Made sure the valve lash was correct (suspected that the
> >exhaust valves weren't closing all the way), no go. Replaced the timing
> >belt, no go. If I take off timing belt, when the crankshaft and camshaft
are
> >dead on the timing marks, and turn the crankshaft back (counter
clockwise)
> >two teeth on the timing belt, the exhaust manifold doesn't get red hot at
> >all and the car has lots more power. The only problem is that the idel is
a
> >little high, and the timing range is off. What I mean by timing range is:
> >the whole range adjusting the distributor timing is 30 degrees BTDC to
TDC,
> >none for ATDC. I's really stange that I would have to move the crankshaft
> >back two teeth to fix the problem, all logic says that the crankshaft and
> >camshaft should be set to thier respective timing marks. Does anybody any
> >any advice as I'm still dealing with this problem.
> >
> >Thanks in advance
> >Mike AKA Deefer Dog
> >
> >A word of advice "never pet a burning dog!!"
> >
> >
>
11-06-2003, 12:45 AM
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Red Hot Exhaust Manifold
You know what, I did notice that the coolant was a little low on the
overflow the last time I changed the timing. Filled er up right away. The
coolant is at -43F, I suspect this is what you were suggesting? Coolant
doesn't run through the exhaust manifold, just the intake manifold, and the
car isn't over heating, at least by the guage in the car.
Thanks!!! Mike
"Nikoli Yetti" <subgenii@bob.com> wrote in message
news:Yn_pb.111245$e01.396831@attbi_s02...
> coolant?
>
>
> "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> news:vqg5dmtaag32b1@corp.supernews.com...
> > Hi PPL
> >
> > I have a 86 Hyundai Excell, the ehaust monifold gets yellow hot and is
> > visable during daylight hours. The problem only happens when the car is
> > driven
> > down the highway for 10 min or so. The first thing I suspected was a
> clogged
> > catalytic converter since it is bolted to the exhaust monifold. Ripped
out
> > the catalytic converter, now the monifold is only red hot. The car was
> > running rough
> > so I suspected a timing problem. I reset the crankshaft and camshaft
> > timing, set the
> > distributor timing to 4 degrees BTDC (as per specs), the car idles
better
> > now but the
> > monifold is still red hot. Tried a different pair of plugs, no go. Made
> > sure the choke was opening,
> > it's fine, ERG opens fine. Checked all vacume lines and replaced the
ones
> > that were broken. Since I recently replaced the head gasket, I retorqued
> the
> > head, no go. Made sure the valve lash was correct (suspected that the
> > exhaust valves weren't closing all the way), no go. Replaced the timing
> > belt, no go. If I take off timing belt, when the crankshaft and camshaft
> are
> > dead on the timing marks, and turn the crankshaft back (counter
clockwise)
> > two teeth on the timing belt, the exhaust manifold doesn't get red hot
at
> > all and the car has lots more power. The only problem is that the idel
is
> a
> > little high, and the timing range is off. What I mean by timing range
is:
> > the whole range adjusting the distributor timing is 30 degrees BTDC to
> TDC,
> > none for ATDC. I's really stange that I would have to move the
crankshaft
> > back two teeth to fix the problem, all logic says that the crankshaft
and
> > camshaft should be set to thier respective timing marks. Does anybody
any
> > any advice as I'm still dealing with this problem.
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> > Mike AKA Deefer Dog
> >
> > A word of advice "never pet a burning dog!!"
> >
> >
> >
>
>
overflow the last time I changed the timing. Filled er up right away. The
coolant is at -43F, I suspect this is what you were suggesting? Coolant
doesn't run through the exhaust manifold, just the intake manifold, and the
car isn't over heating, at least by the guage in the car.
Thanks!!! Mike
"Nikoli Yetti" <subgenii@bob.com> wrote in message
news:Yn_pb.111245$e01.396831@attbi_s02...
> coolant?
>
>
> "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> news:vqg5dmtaag32b1@corp.supernews.com...
> > Hi PPL
> >
> > I have a 86 Hyundai Excell, the ehaust monifold gets yellow hot and is
> > visable during daylight hours. The problem only happens when the car is
> > driven
> > down the highway for 10 min or so. The first thing I suspected was a
> clogged
> > catalytic converter since it is bolted to the exhaust monifold. Ripped
out
> > the catalytic converter, now the monifold is only red hot. The car was
> > running rough
> > so I suspected a timing problem. I reset the crankshaft and camshaft
> > timing, set the
> > distributor timing to 4 degrees BTDC (as per specs), the car idles
better
> > now but the
> > monifold is still red hot. Tried a different pair of plugs, no go. Made
> > sure the choke was opening,
> > it's fine, ERG opens fine. Checked all vacume lines and replaced the
ones
> > that were broken. Since I recently replaced the head gasket, I retorqued
> the
> > head, no go. Made sure the valve lash was correct (suspected that the
> > exhaust valves weren't closing all the way), no go. Replaced the timing
> > belt, no go. If I take off timing belt, when the crankshaft and camshaft
> are
> > dead on the timing marks, and turn the crankshaft back (counter
clockwise)
> > two teeth on the timing belt, the exhaust manifold doesn't get red hot
at
> > all and the car has lots more power. The only problem is that the idel
is
> a
> > little high, and the timing range is off. What I mean by timing range
is:
> > the whole range adjusting the distributor timing is 30 degrees BTDC to
> TDC,
> > none for ATDC. I's really stange that I would have to move the
crankshaft
> > back two teeth to fix the problem, all logic says that the crankshaft
and
> > camshaft should be set to thier respective timing marks. Does anybody
any
> > any advice as I'm still dealing with this problem.
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> > Mike AKA Deefer Dog
> >
> > A word of advice "never pet a burning dog!!"
> >
> >
> >
>
>
11-06-2003, 12:48 AM
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Red Hot Exhaust Manifold
I'll try that, retarding the timing on the distributor at little more.
Instead of 10 BTDC (4 BTDC on specs) I'll try 15 BTDC
Thanks
"pookeybrain" <munged@munged.xyz> wrote in message
news:8Kdqb.107753$RP2.27268@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
>
> "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> news:vqgrubph2tenbd@corp.supernews.com...
> > 160,000 Km
> > Looked at the on line Hyundai manuals, nothing to help me there.
> > Do you have any suggestions?
>
> Humm. 1986 Excel. 160,000 Km.
>
> I'm inclined to say that if it runs better with the timing belt offset by
2
> teeth to leave it there.
>
> If it was me, I'd leave the timing gears at their normal position and just
> retard the distributor timing until the problem was resolved. That engine
> has a lot of wear on it and things are a lot looser inside than they were
> new.
>
>
Instead of 10 BTDC (4 BTDC on specs) I'll try 15 BTDC
Thanks
"pookeybrain" <munged@munged.xyz> wrote in message
news:8Kdqb.107753$RP2.27268@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
>
> "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> news:vqgrubph2tenbd@corp.supernews.com...
> > 160,000 Km
> > Looked at the on line Hyundai manuals, nothing to help me there.
> > Do you have any suggestions?
>
> Humm. 1986 Excel. 160,000 Km.
>
> I'm inclined to say that if it runs better with the timing belt offset by
2
> teeth to leave it there.
>
> If it was me, I'd leave the timing gears at their normal position and just
> retard the distributor timing until the problem was resolved. That engine
> has a lot of wear on it and things are a lot looser inside than they were
> new.
>
>
11-06-2003, 08:00 AM
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Red Hot Exhaust Manifold
In article <vqg5dmtaag32b1@corp.supernews.com>, "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>Hi PPL
>
>I have a 86 Hyundai Excell, the ehaust monifold gets yellow hot and is
>visable during daylight hours. The problem only happens when the car is
>driven
>down the highway for 10 min or so. The first thing I suspected was a clogged
>catalytic converter since it is bolted to the exhaust monifold. Ripped out
>the catalytic converter, now the monifold is only red hot. The car was
>running rough
> so I suspected a timing problem. I reset the crankshaft and camshaft
>timing, set the
>distributor timing to 4 degrees BTDC (as per specs), the car idles better
>now but the
> monifold is still red hot. Tried a different pair of plugs, no go. Made
>sure the choke was opening,
>it's fine, ERG opens fine. Checked all vacume lines and replaced the ones
>that were broken. Since I recently replaced the head gasket, I retorqued the
>head, no go. Made sure the valve lash was correct (suspected that the
>exhaust valves weren't closing all the way), no go. Replaced the timing
>belt, no go. If I take off timing belt, when the crankshaft and camshaft are
>dead on the timing marks, and turn the crankshaft back (counter clockwise)
>two teeth on the timing belt, the exhaust manifold doesn't get red hot at
>all and the car has lots more power. The only problem is that the idel is a
>little high, and the timing range is off. What I mean by timing range is:
>the whole range adjusting the distributor timing is 30 degrees BTDC to TDC,
>none for ATDC. I's really stange that I would have to move the crankshaft
>back two teeth to fix the problem, all logic says that the crankshaft and
>camshaft should be set to thier respective timing marks. Does anybody any
http://www.hmaservice.com/webtech/ii...?id=8631#_8631
>Hi PPL
>
>I have a 86 Hyundai Excell, the ehaust monifold gets yellow hot and is
>visable during daylight hours. The problem only happens when the car is
>driven
>down the highway for 10 min or so. The first thing I suspected was a clogged
>catalytic converter since it is bolted to the exhaust monifold. Ripped out
>the catalytic converter, now the monifold is only red hot. The car was
>running rough
> so I suspected a timing problem. I reset the crankshaft and camshaft
>timing, set the
>distributor timing to 4 degrees BTDC (as per specs), the car idles better
>now but the
> monifold is still red hot. Tried a different pair of plugs, no go. Made
>sure the choke was opening,
>it's fine, ERG opens fine. Checked all vacume lines and replaced the ones
>that were broken. Since I recently replaced the head gasket, I retorqued the
>head, no go. Made sure the valve lash was correct (suspected that the
>exhaust valves weren't closing all the way), no go. Replaced the timing
>belt, no go. If I take off timing belt, when the crankshaft and camshaft are
>dead on the timing marks, and turn the crankshaft back (counter clockwise)
>two teeth on the timing belt, the exhaust manifold doesn't get red hot at
>all and the car has lots more power. The only problem is that the idel is a
>little high, and the timing range is off. What I mean by timing range is:
>the whole range adjusting the distributor timing is 30 degrees BTDC to TDC,
>none for ATDC. I's really stange that I would have to move the crankshaft
>back two teeth to fix the problem, all logic says that the crankshaft and
>camshaft should be set to thier respective timing marks. Does anybody any
http://www.hmaservice.com/webtech/ii...?id=8631#_8631
11-07-2003, 12:18 AM
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Red Hot Exhaust Manifold
"Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:vqg5dmtaag32b1@corp.supernews.com...
> Hi PPL
>
> I have a 86 Hyundai Excell, the ehaust monifold gets yellow hot and is
> visable during daylight hours. The problem only happens when the car is
> driven
> down the highway for 10 min or so. The first thing I suspected was a
clogged
> catalytic converter since it is bolted to the exhaust monifold. Ripped out
> the catalytic converter, now the monifold is only red hot. The car was
> running rough
> so I suspected a timing problem. I reset the crankshaft and camshaft
> timing, set the
> distributor timing to 4 degrees BTDC (as per specs), the car idles better
> now but the
> monifold is still red hot. Tried a different pair of plugs, no go. Made
> sure the choke was opening,
> it's fine, ERG opens fine. Checked all vacume lines and replaced the ones
> that were broken. Since I recently replaced the head gasket, I retorqued
the
> head, no go. Made sure the valve lash was correct (suspected that the
> exhaust valves weren't closing all the way), no go. Replaced the timing
> belt, no go. If I take off timing belt, when the crankshaft and camshaft
are
> dead on the timing marks, and turn the crankshaft back (counter clockwise)
> two teeth on the timing belt, the exhaust manifold doesn't get red hot at
> all and the car has lots more power. The only problem is that the idel is
a
> little high, and the timing range is off. What I mean by timing range is:
> the whole range adjusting the distributor timing is 30 degrees BTDC to
TDC,
> none for ATDC. I's really stange that I would have to move the crankshaft
> back two teeth to fix the problem, all logic says that the crankshaft and
> camshaft should be set to thier respective timing marks. Does anybody any
> any advice as I'm still dealing with this problem.
>
> Thanks in advance
One possibility is a clogged or defective EGR valve. If you open the valve
by
hand when it's cool it should remain open when you cover the vacuum nipple
with a spare finger. If you open the valve by hand with the engine running
(before it gets hot), the idle should drop and/or stumble/stall.
Does this engine have some sort of air injection into the exhaust manifold
as
well as into the cat? If so, the diverter valve may be shot and it's pumping
air into the manifold all the time. If your exhaust is too rich (misfire),
this would
cause the glowing.
I suspect that your cat was an empty canister when you removed it?
Bob
11-07-2003, 02:49 AM
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Red Hot Exhaust Manifold
The ERG valve is opening. The canister did have a cat in it and it was
clogged, when I removed it, the temp of the exhaust manifold went down
(darker red colour) one thing I did notice is that the coolant temp went
down, as though the car is running a little cooler. I suspect that this is
because the exhaust is taking the heat instead of the head. Now why is this
happening, that's the question!!! It's not a warn crankshaft sprocket as
suggested in the previous post, as I have already taken the spocket off...it
was tough to get off and there is no play, so I guess it's not worn. Any
other suggestion?
Thanks in advance.
Mike : )
"Never pet a burning dog!"
"Bob Bailin" <72027.3605@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:bof9v1$r9i$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
>
> "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> news:vqg5dmtaag32b1@corp.supernews.com...
> > Hi PPL
> >
> > I have a 86 Hyundai Excell, the ehaust monifold gets yellow hot and is
> > visable during daylight hours. The problem only happens when the car is
> > driven
> > down the highway for 10 min or so. The first thing I suspected was a
> clogged
> > catalytic converter since it is bolted to the exhaust monifold. Ripped
out
> > the catalytic converter, now the monifold is only red hot. The car was
> > running rough
> > so I suspected a timing problem. I reset the crankshaft and camshaft
> > timing, set the
> > distributor timing to 4 degrees BTDC (as per specs), the car idles
better
> > now but the
> > monifold is still red hot. Tried a different pair of plugs, no go. Made
> > sure the choke was opening,
> > it's fine, ERG opens fine. Checked all vacume lines and replaced the
ones
> > that were broken. Since I recently replaced the head gasket, I retorqued
> the
> > head, no go. Made sure the valve lash was correct (suspected that the
> > exhaust valves weren't closing all the way), no go. Replaced the timing
> > belt, no go. If I take off timing belt, when the crankshaft and camshaft
> are
> > dead on the timing marks, and turn the crankshaft back (counter
clockwise)
> > two teeth on the timing belt, the exhaust manifold doesn't get red hot
at
> > all and the car has lots more power. The only problem is that the idel
is
> a
> > little high, and the timing range is off. What I mean by timing range
is:
> > the whole range adjusting the distributor timing is 30 degrees BTDC to
> TDC,
> > none for ATDC. I's really stange that I would have to move the
crankshaft
> > back two teeth to fix the problem, all logic says that the crankshaft
and
> > camshaft should be set to thier respective timing marks. Does anybody
any
> > any advice as I'm still dealing with this problem.
> >
> > Thanks in advance
>
> One possibility is a clogged or defective EGR valve. If you open the valve
> by
> hand when it's cool it should remain open when you cover the vacuum nipple
> with a spare finger. If you open the valve by hand with the engine running
> (before it gets hot), the idle should drop and/or stumble/stall.
>
> Does this engine have some sort of air injection into the exhaust manifold
> as
> well as into the cat? If so, the diverter valve may be shot and it's
pumping
> air into the manifold all the time. If your exhaust is too rich (misfire),
> this would
> cause the glowing.
>
> I suspect that your cat was an empty canister when you removed it?
>
> Bob
>
>
clogged, when I removed it, the temp of the exhaust manifold went down
(darker red colour) one thing I did notice is that the coolant temp went
down, as though the car is running a little cooler. I suspect that this is
because the exhaust is taking the heat instead of the head. Now why is this
happening, that's the question!!! It's not a warn crankshaft sprocket as
suggested in the previous post, as I have already taken the spocket off...it
was tough to get off and there is no play, so I guess it's not worn. Any
other suggestion?
Thanks in advance.
Mike : )
"Never pet a burning dog!"
"Bob Bailin" <72027.3605@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:bof9v1$r9i$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
>
> "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> news:vqg5dmtaag32b1@corp.supernews.com...
> > Hi PPL
> >
> > I have a 86 Hyundai Excell, the ehaust monifold gets yellow hot and is
> > visable during daylight hours. The problem only happens when the car is
> > driven
> > down the highway for 10 min or so. The first thing I suspected was a
> clogged
> > catalytic converter since it is bolted to the exhaust monifold. Ripped
out
> > the catalytic converter, now the monifold is only red hot. The car was
> > running rough
> > so I suspected a timing problem. I reset the crankshaft and camshaft
> > timing, set the
> > distributor timing to 4 degrees BTDC (as per specs), the car idles
better
> > now but the
> > monifold is still red hot. Tried a different pair of plugs, no go. Made
> > sure the choke was opening,
> > it's fine, ERG opens fine. Checked all vacume lines and replaced the
ones
> > that were broken. Since I recently replaced the head gasket, I retorqued
> the
> > head, no go. Made sure the valve lash was correct (suspected that the
> > exhaust valves weren't closing all the way), no go. Replaced the timing
> > belt, no go. If I take off timing belt, when the crankshaft and camshaft
> are
> > dead on the timing marks, and turn the crankshaft back (counter
clockwise)
> > two teeth on the timing belt, the exhaust manifold doesn't get red hot
at
> > all and the car has lots more power. The only problem is that the idel
is
> a
> > little high, and the timing range is off. What I mean by timing range
is:
> > the whole range adjusting the distributor timing is 30 degrees BTDC to
> TDC,
> > none for ATDC. I's really stange that I would have to move the
crankshaft
> > back two teeth to fix the problem, all logic says that the crankshaft
and
> > camshaft should be set to thier respective timing marks. Does anybody
any
> > any advice as I'm still dealing with this problem.
> >
> > Thanks in advance
>
> One possibility is a clogged or defective EGR valve. If you open the valve
> by
> hand when it's cool it should remain open when you cover the vacuum nipple
> with a spare finger. If you open the valve by hand with the engine running
> (before it gets hot), the idle should drop and/or stumble/stall.
>
> Does this engine have some sort of air injection into the exhaust manifold
> as
> well as into the cat? If so, the diverter valve may be shot and it's
pumping
> air into the manifold all the time. If your exhaust is too rich (misfire),
> this would
> cause the glowing.
>
> I suspect that your cat was an empty canister when you removed it?
>
> Bob
>
>
11-08-2003, 11:44 AM
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Red Hot Exhaust Manifold
The EGR valve may be opening (i.e., the rubber diaphragm is intact),
but the EGR passage thru the intake manifold back to the head may
be all clogged up with carbon, especially after 17 years. Open the
valve by hand or with a vacuum pump while the engine is idling, and
see if it stalls (it should).
The purpose of exhaust gas recirculation is to lower the temps in the
combustion chamber a couple of hundred degrees to reduce the
formation of NOx. As a side effect, it should also drop the temp
of the exhaust manifold.
If it's clogged, unbolt the valve and clean it out with a screwdriver.
Clean the passages as best you can with a long thin screwdriver
or something like an old speedometer cable attached to a
variable-speed drill.
BTW, have you ever tried decarbonizing the head by spraying water
into the carb while the engine is at fast idle? Use something like a
spray cleaner bottle, don't pour water by hand into the carb or you'll
break a piston or rod due to hydraulic lockup. This should lower the
compression back to normal if it's on the high side due to carbon
build-up. You'll get lots of black carbon out the tailpipe, but eventually
it will subside when it's all cleaned up, leaving you with a little white
steam.
Bob
"Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:vqmjjkqu58hj7c@corp.supernews.com...
> The ERG valve is opening. The canister did have a cat in it and it was
> clogged, when I removed it, the temp of the exhaust manifold went down
> (darker red colour) one thing I did notice is that the coolant temp went
> down, as though the car is running a little cooler. I suspect that this is
> because the exhaust is taking the heat instead of the head. Now why is
this
> happening, that's the question!!! It's not a warn crankshaft sprocket as
> suggested in the previous post, as I have already taken the spocket
off...it
> was tough to get off and there is no play, so I guess it's not worn. Any
> other suggestion?
> Thanks in advance.
> Mike : )
> "Never pet a burning dog!"
>
> "Bob Bailin" <72027.3605@compuserve.com> wrote in message
> news:bof9v1$r9i$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
> >
> > "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> > news:vqg5dmtaag32b1@corp.supernews.com...
> > > Hi PPL
> > >
> > > I have a 86 Hyundai Excell, the ehaust monifold gets yellow hot and is
> > > visable during daylight hours. The problem only happens when the car
is
> > > driven
> > > down the highway for 10 min or so. The first thing I suspected was a
> > clogged
> > > catalytic converter since it is bolted to the exhaust monifold. Ripped
> out
> > > the catalytic converter, now the monifold is only red hot. The car was
> > > running rough
> > > so I suspected a timing problem. I reset the crankshaft and camshaft
> > > timing, set the
> > > distributor timing to 4 degrees BTDC (as per specs), the car idles
> better
> > > now but the
> > > monifold is still red hot. Tried a different pair of plugs, no go.
Made
> > > sure the choke was opening,
> > > it's fine, ERG opens fine. Checked all vacume lines and replaced the
> ones
> > > that were broken. Since I recently replaced the head gasket, I
retorqued
> > the
> > > head, no go. Made sure the valve lash was correct (suspected that the
> > > exhaust valves weren't closing all the way), no go. Replaced the
timing
> > > belt, no go. If I take off timing belt, when the crankshaft and
camshaft
> > are
> > > dead on the timing marks, and turn the crankshaft back (counter
> clockwise)
> > > two teeth on the timing belt, the exhaust manifold doesn't get red hot
> at
> > > all and the car has lots more power. The only problem is that the idel
> is
> > a
> > > little high, and the timing range is off. What I mean by timing range
> is:
> > > the whole range adjusting the distributor timing is 30 degrees BTDC to
> > TDC,
> > > none for ATDC. I's really stange that I would have to move the
> crankshaft
> > > back two teeth to fix the problem, all logic says that the crankshaft
> and
> > > camshaft should be set to thier respective timing marks. Does anybody
> any
> > > any advice as I'm still dealing with this problem.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance
> >
> > One possibility is a clogged or defective EGR valve. If you open the
valve
> > by
> > hand when it's cool it should remain open when you cover the vacuum
nipple
> > with a spare finger. If you open the valve by hand with the engine
running
> > (before it gets hot), the idle should drop and/or stumble/stall.
> >
> > Does this engine have some sort of air injection into the exhaust
manifold
> > as
> > well as into the cat? If so, the diverter valve may be shot and it's
> pumping
> > air into the manifold all the time. If your exhaust is too rich
(misfire),
> > this would
> > cause the glowing.
> >
> > I suspect that your cat was an empty canister when you removed it?
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
>
>
but the EGR passage thru the intake manifold back to the head may
be all clogged up with carbon, especially after 17 years. Open the
valve by hand or with a vacuum pump while the engine is idling, and
see if it stalls (it should).
The purpose of exhaust gas recirculation is to lower the temps in the
combustion chamber a couple of hundred degrees to reduce the
formation of NOx. As a side effect, it should also drop the temp
of the exhaust manifold.
If it's clogged, unbolt the valve and clean it out with a screwdriver.
Clean the passages as best you can with a long thin screwdriver
or something like an old speedometer cable attached to a
variable-speed drill.
BTW, have you ever tried decarbonizing the head by spraying water
into the carb while the engine is at fast idle? Use something like a
spray cleaner bottle, don't pour water by hand into the carb or you'll
break a piston or rod due to hydraulic lockup. This should lower the
compression back to normal if it's on the high side due to carbon
build-up. You'll get lots of black carbon out the tailpipe, but eventually
it will subside when it's all cleaned up, leaving you with a little white
steam.
Bob
"Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:vqmjjkqu58hj7c@corp.supernews.com...
> The ERG valve is opening. The canister did have a cat in it and it was
> clogged, when I removed it, the temp of the exhaust manifold went down
> (darker red colour) one thing I did notice is that the coolant temp went
> down, as though the car is running a little cooler. I suspect that this is
> because the exhaust is taking the heat instead of the head. Now why is
this
> happening, that's the question!!! It's not a warn crankshaft sprocket as
> suggested in the previous post, as I have already taken the spocket
off...it
> was tough to get off and there is no play, so I guess it's not worn. Any
> other suggestion?
> Thanks in advance.
> Mike : )
> "Never pet a burning dog!"
>
> "Bob Bailin" <72027.3605@compuserve.com> wrote in message
> news:bof9v1$r9i$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
> >
> > "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> > news:vqg5dmtaag32b1@corp.supernews.com...
> > > Hi PPL
> > >
> > > I have a 86 Hyundai Excell, the ehaust monifold gets yellow hot and is
> > > visable during daylight hours. The problem only happens when the car
is
> > > driven
> > > down the highway for 10 min or so. The first thing I suspected was a
> > clogged
> > > catalytic converter since it is bolted to the exhaust monifold. Ripped
> out
> > > the catalytic converter, now the monifold is only red hot. The car was
> > > running rough
> > > so I suspected a timing problem. I reset the crankshaft and camshaft
> > > timing, set the
> > > distributor timing to 4 degrees BTDC (as per specs), the car idles
> better
> > > now but the
> > > monifold is still red hot. Tried a different pair of plugs, no go.
Made
> > > sure the choke was opening,
> > > it's fine, ERG opens fine. Checked all vacume lines and replaced the
> ones
> > > that were broken. Since I recently replaced the head gasket, I
retorqued
> > the
> > > head, no go. Made sure the valve lash was correct (suspected that the
> > > exhaust valves weren't closing all the way), no go. Replaced the
timing
> > > belt, no go. If I take off timing belt, when the crankshaft and
camshaft
> > are
> > > dead on the timing marks, and turn the crankshaft back (counter
> clockwise)
> > > two teeth on the timing belt, the exhaust manifold doesn't get red hot
> at
> > > all and the car has lots more power. The only problem is that the idel
> is
> > a
> > > little high, and the timing range is off. What I mean by timing range
> is:
> > > the whole range adjusting the distributor timing is 30 degrees BTDC to
> > TDC,
> > > none for ATDC. I's really stange that I would have to move the
> crankshaft
> > > back two teeth to fix the problem, all logic says that the crankshaft
> and
> > > camshaft should be set to thier respective timing marks. Does anybody
> any
> > > any advice as I'm still dealing with this problem.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance
> >
> > One possibility is a clogged or defective EGR valve. If you open the
valve
> > by
> > hand when it's cool it should remain open when you cover the vacuum
nipple
> > with a spare finger. If you open the valve by hand with the engine
running
> > (before it gets hot), the idle should drop and/or stumble/stall.
> >
> > Does this engine have some sort of air injection into the exhaust
manifold
> > as
> > well as into the cat? If so, the diverter valve may be shot and it's
> pumping
> > air into the manifold all the time. If your exhaust is too rich
(misfire),
> > this would
> > cause the glowing.
> >
> > I suspect that your cat was an empty canister when you removed it?
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
>
>
11-08-2003, 04:59 PM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Red Hot Exhaust Manifold
I know that the ERG valve is opening. The diaphram that opens it comes off
of the exhaust manifold with a vacume line. Remove the vacume line and the
exhaust resinats differently inside cat canister, which is attached to the
exhaust manifold.
The different sound that the exhaust makes tells me that the ERG is opening,
however, is it clogged with carbon as you suggested, I'll look into that.
Hope you are right as this problem is starting to become more than a problem
LOL
Thanks for the excellent suggestions Bob
: )
"Bob Bailin" <72027.3605@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:boj6gs$9a9$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
> The EGR valve may be opening (i.e., the rubber diaphragm is intact),
> but the EGR passage thru the intake manifold back to the head may
> be all clogged up with carbon, especially after 17 years. Open the
> valve by hand or with a vacuum pump while the engine is idling, and
> see if it stalls (it should).
>
> The purpose of exhaust gas recirculation is to lower the temps in the
> combustion chamber a couple of hundred degrees to reduce the
> formation of NOx. As a side effect, it should also drop the temp
> of the exhaust manifold.
>
> If it's clogged, unbolt the valve and clean it out with a screwdriver.
> Clean the passages as best you can with a long thin screwdriver
> or something like an old speedometer cable attached to a
> variable-speed drill.
>
> BTW, have you ever tried decarbonizing the head by spraying water
> into the carb while the engine is at fast idle? Use something like a
> spray cleaner bottle, don't pour water by hand into the carb or you'll
> break a piston or rod due to hydraulic lockup. This should lower the
> compression back to normal if it's on the high side due to carbon
> build-up. You'll get lots of black carbon out the tailpipe, but eventually
> it will subside when it's all cleaned up, leaving you with a little white
> steam.
>
> Bob
>
> "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> news:vqmjjkqu58hj7c@corp.supernews.com...
> > The ERG valve is opening. The canister did have a cat in it and it was
> > clogged, when I removed it, the temp of the exhaust manifold went down
> > (darker red colour) one thing I did notice is that the coolant temp went
> > down, as though the car is running a little cooler. I suspect that this
is
> > because the exhaust is taking the heat instead of the head. Now why is
> this
> > happening, that's the question!!! It's not a warn crankshaft sprocket as
> > suggested in the previous post, as I have already taken the spocket
> off...it
> > was tough to get off and there is no play, so I guess it's not worn. Any
> > other suggestion?
> > Thanks in advance.
> > Mike : )
> > "Never pet a burning dog!"
> >
> > "Bob Bailin" <72027.3605@compuserve.com> wrote in message
> > news:bof9v1$r9i$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
> > >
> > > "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:vqg5dmtaag32b1@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > Hi PPL
> > > >
> > > > I have a 86 Hyundai Excell, the ehaust monifold gets yellow hot and
is
> > > > visable during daylight hours. The problem only happens when the car
> is
> > > > driven
> > > > down the highway for 10 min or so. The first thing I suspected was a
> > > clogged
> > > > catalytic converter since it is bolted to the exhaust monifold.
Ripped
> > out
> > > > the catalytic converter, now the monifold is only red hot. The car
was
> > > > running rough
> > > > so I suspected a timing problem. I reset the crankshaft and
camshaft
> > > > timing, set the
> > > > distributor timing to 4 degrees BTDC (as per specs), the car idles
> > better
> > > > now but the
> > > > monifold is still red hot. Tried a different pair of plugs, no go.
> Made
> > > > sure the choke was opening,
> > > > it's fine, ERG opens fine. Checked all vacume lines and replaced the
> > ones
> > > > that were broken. Since I recently replaced the head gasket, I
> retorqued
> > > the
> > > > head, no go. Made sure the valve lash was correct (suspected that
the
> > > > exhaust valves weren't closing all the way), no go. Replaced the
> timing
> > > > belt, no go. If I take off timing belt, when the crankshaft and
> camshaft
> > > are
> > > > dead on the timing marks, and turn the crankshaft back (counter
> > clockwise)
> > > > two teeth on the timing belt, the exhaust manifold doesn't get red
hot
> > at
> > > > all and the car has lots more power. The only problem is that the
idel
> > is
> > > a
> > > > little high, and the timing range is off. What I mean by timing
range
> > is:
> > > > the whole range adjusting the distributor timing is 30 degrees BTDC
to
> > > TDC,
> > > > none for ATDC. I's really stange that I would have to move the
> > crankshaft
> > > > back two teeth to fix the problem, all logic says that the
crankshaft
> > and
> > > > camshaft should be set to thier respective timing marks. Does
anybody
> > any
> > > > any advice as I'm still dealing with this problem.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance
> > >
> > > One possibility is a clogged or defective EGR valve. If you open the
> valve
> > > by
> > > hand when it's cool it should remain open when you cover the vacuum
> nipple
> > > with a spare finger. If you open the valve by hand with the engine
> running
> > > (before it gets hot), the idle should drop and/or stumble/stall.
> > >
> > > Does this engine have some sort of air injection into the exhaust
> manifold
> > > as
> > > well as into the cat? If so, the diverter valve may be shot and it's
> > pumping
> > > air into the manifold all the time. If your exhaust is too rich
> (misfire),
> > > this would
> > > cause the glowing.
> > >
> > > I suspect that your cat was an empty canister when you removed it?
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
11-16-2003, 10:04 PM
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Red Hot Exhaust Manifold
Hi Bob
I made a mistake when I was saying that the ERG was on the exhaust manifold,
it's on the intake manifold. I was talking about the wrong part as I thought
the secondary air control valve was the ERG. Anyhoo I did as you susggested,
except I didin't decarbonize the head.
I took off the ERG and inspected it. The valve was gummed up with oil
sludge, cleaned it up (break cleaner) and made a new gasket for it. When
depressing the diaphragm, the valve wasn't sticking and was able to swish
break cleaner back and forth between the two openings for recycled exhaust.
I reamed out the two ERG passages (on intake manifold) with a used
speedometer cable and a power drill. I was able to feed about 2 and a half
feet into each passage. One of the passages that goes towards the carb, was
clogged with oily sludge, but I was able to clean it and spray some break
cleaner into it to further soften up the sludge. Put the whole thing back
together, ran the car down the road for 20 min and I have the same problem,
red hot exhaust manifold. With the engine at operating temp I revved the
engine, the ERG diaphragm opens all the way (the back of the ERG is open to
see the diaphragm) pushed on the diaphragm with my finger, the idle changes
slightly. So it appears as though the ERG is operating as it should. Any
other suggestions?
Mike
"Bob Bailin" <72027.3605@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:boj6gs$9a9$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
> The EGR valve may be opening (i.e., the rubber diaphragm is intact),
> but the EGR passage thru the intake manifold back to the head may
> be all clogged up with carbon, especially after 17 years. Open the
> valve by hand or with a vacuum pump while the engine is idling, and
> see if it stalls (it should).
>
> The purpose of exhaust gas recirculation is to lower the temps in the
> combustion chamber a couple of hundred degrees to reduce the
> formation of NOx. As a side effect, it should also drop the temp
> of the exhaust manifold.
>
> If it's clogged, unbolt the valve and clean it out with a screwdriver.
> Clean the passages as best you can with a long thin screwdriver
> or something like an old speedometer cable attached to a
> variable-speed drill.
>
> BTW, have you ever tried decarbonizing the head by spraying water
> into the carb while the engine is at fast idle? Use something like a
> spray cleaner bottle, don't pour water by hand into the carb or you'll
> break a piston or rod due to hydraulic lockup. This should lower the
> compression back to normal if it's on the high side due to carbon
> build-up. You'll get lots of black carbon out the tailpipe, but eventually
> it will subside when it's all cleaned up, leaving you with a little white
> steam.
>
> Bob
>
> "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> news:vqmjjkqu58hj7c@corp.supernews.com...
> > The ERG valve is opening. The canister did have a cat in it and it was
> > clogged, when I removed it, the temp of the exhaust manifold went down
> > (darker red colour) one thing I did notice is that the coolant temp went
> > down, as though the car is running a little cooler. I suspect that this
is
> > because the exhaust is taking the heat instead of the head. Now why is
> this
> > happening, that's the question!!! It's not a warn crankshaft sprocket as
> > suggested in the previous post, as I have already taken the spocket
> off...it
> > was tough to get off and there is no play, so I guess it's not worn. Any
> > other suggestion?
> > Thanks in advance.
> > Mike : )
> > "Never pet a burning dog!"
> >
> > "Bob Bailin" <72027.3605@compuserve.com> wrote in message
> > news:bof9v1$r9i$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
> > >
> > > "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:vqg5dmtaag32b1@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > Hi PPL
> > > >
> > > > I have a 86 Hyundai Excell, the ehaust monifold gets yellow hot and
is
> > > > visable during daylight hours. The problem only happens when the car
> is
> > > > driven
> > > > down the highway for 10 min or so. The first thing I suspected was a
> > > clogged
> > > > catalytic converter since it is bolted to the exhaust monifold.
Ripped
> > out
> > > > the catalytic converter, now the monifold is only red hot. The car
was
> > > > running rough
> > > > so I suspected a timing problem. I reset the crankshaft and
camshaft
> > > > timing, set the
> > > > distributor timing to 4 degrees BTDC (as per specs), the car idles
> > better
> > > > now but the
> > > > monifold is still red hot. Tried a different pair of plugs, no go.
> Made
> > > > sure the choke was opening,
> > > > it's fine, ERG opens fine. Checked all vacume lines and replaced the
> > ones
> > > > that were broken. Since I recently replaced the head gasket, I
> retorqued
> > > the
> > > > head, no go. Made sure the valve lash was correct (suspected that
the
> > > > exhaust valves weren't closing all the way), no go. Replaced the
> timing
> > > > belt, no go. If I take off timing belt, when the crankshaft and
> camshaft
> > > are
> > > > dead on the timing marks, and turn the crankshaft back (counter
> > clockwise)
> > > > two teeth on the timing belt, the exhaust manifold doesn't get red
hot
> > at
> > > > all and the car has lots more power. The only problem is that the
idel
> > is
> > > a
> > > > little high, and the timing range is off. What I mean by timing
range
> > is:
> > > > the whole range adjusting the distributor timing is 30 degrees BTDC
to
> > > TDC,
> > > > none for ATDC. I's really stange that I would have to move the
> > crankshaft
> > > > back two teeth to fix the problem, all logic says that the
crankshaft
> > and
> > > > camshaft should be set to thier respective timing marks. Does
anybody
> > any
> > > > any advice as I'm still dealing with this problem.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance
> > >
> > > One possibility is a clogged or defective EGR valve. If you open the
> valve
> > > by
> > > hand when it's cool it should remain open when you cover the vacuum
> nipple
> > > with a spare finger. If you open the valve by hand with the engine
> running
> > > (before it gets hot), the idle should drop and/or stumble/stall.
> > >
> > > Does this engine have some sort of air injection into the exhaust
> manifold
> > > as
> > > well as into the cat? If so, the diverter valve may be shot and it's
> > pumping
> > > air into the manifold all the time. If your exhaust is too rich
> (misfire),
> > > this would
> > > cause the glowing.
> > >
> > > I suspect that your cat was an empty canister when you removed it?
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
I made a mistake when I was saying that the ERG was on the exhaust manifold,
it's on the intake manifold. I was talking about the wrong part as I thought
the secondary air control valve was the ERG. Anyhoo I did as you susggested,
except I didin't decarbonize the head.
I took off the ERG and inspected it. The valve was gummed up with oil
sludge, cleaned it up (break cleaner) and made a new gasket for it. When
depressing the diaphragm, the valve wasn't sticking and was able to swish
break cleaner back and forth between the two openings for recycled exhaust.
I reamed out the two ERG passages (on intake manifold) with a used
speedometer cable and a power drill. I was able to feed about 2 and a half
feet into each passage. One of the passages that goes towards the carb, was
clogged with oily sludge, but I was able to clean it and spray some break
cleaner into it to further soften up the sludge. Put the whole thing back
together, ran the car down the road for 20 min and I have the same problem,
red hot exhaust manifold. With the engine at operating temp I revved the
engine, the ERG diaphragm opens all the way (the back of the ERG is open to
see the diaphragm) pushed on the diaphragm with my finger, the idle changes
slightly. So it appears as though the ERG is operating as it should. Any
other suggestions?
Mike
"Bob Bailin" <72027.3605@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:boj6gs$9a9$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
> The EGR valve may be opening (i.e., the rubber diaphragm is intact),
> but the EGR passage thru the intake manifold back to the head may
> be all clogged up with carbon, especially after 17 years. Open the
> valve by hand or with a vacuum pump while the engine is idling, and
> see if it stalls (it should).
>
> The purpose of exhaust gas recirculation is to lower the temps in the
> combustion chamber a couple of hundred degrees to reduce the
> formation of NOx. As a side effect, it should also drop the temp
> of the exhaust manifold.
>
> If it's clogged, unbolt the valve and clean it out with a screwdriver.
> Clean the passages as best you can with a long thin screwdriver
> or something like an old speedometer cable attached to a
> variable-speed drill.
>
> BTW, have you ever tried decarbonizing the head by spraying water
> into the carb while the engine is at fast idle? Use something like a
> spray cleaner bottle, don't pour water by hand into the carb or you'll
> break a piston or rod due to hydraulic lockup. This should lower the
> compression back to normal if it's on the high side due to carbon
> build-up. You'll get lots of black carbon out the tailpipe, but eventually
> it will subside when it's all cleaned up, leaving you with a little white
> steam.
>
> Bob
>
> "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> news:vqmjjkqu58hj7c@corp.supernews.com...
> > The ERG valve is opening. The canister did have a cat in it and it was
> > clogged, when I removed it, the temp of the exhaust manifold went down
> > (darker red colour) one thing I did notice is that the coolant temp went
> > down, as though the car is running a little cooler. I suspect that this
is
> > because the exhaust is taking the heat instead of the head. Now why is
> this
> > happening, that's the question!!! It's not a warn crankshaft sprocket as
> > suggested in the previous post, as I have already taken the spocket
> off...it
> > was tough to get off and there is no play, so I guess it's not worn. Any
> > other suggestion?
> > Thanks in advance.
> > Mike : )
> > "Never pet a burning dog!"
> >
> > "Bob Bailin" <72027.3605@compuserve.com> wrote in message
> > news:bof9v1$r9i$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
> > >
> > > "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:vqg5dmtaag32b1@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > Hi PPL
> > > >
> > > > I have a 86 Hyundai Excell, the ehaust monifold gets yellow hot and
is
> > > > visable during daylight hours. The problem only happens when the car
> is
> > > > driven
> > > > down the highway for 10 min or so. The first thing I suspected was a
> > > clogged
> > > > catalytic converter since it is bolted to the exhaust monifold.
Ripped
> > out
> > > > the catalytic converter, now the monifold is only red hot. The car
was
> > > > running rough
> > > > so I suspected a timing problem. I reset the crankshaft and
camshaft
> > > > timing, set the
> > > > distributor timing to 4 degrees BTDC (as per specs), the car idles
> > better
> > > > now but the
> > > > monifold is still red hot. Tried a different pair of plugs, no go.
> Made
> > > > sure the choke was opening,
> > > > it's fine, ERG opens fine. Checked all vacume lines and replaced the
> > ones
> > > > that were broken. Since I recently replaced the head gasket, I
> retorqued
> > > the
> > > > head, no go. Made sure the valve lash was correct (suspected that
the
> > > > exhaust valves weren't closing all the way), no go. Replaced the
> timing
> > > > belt, no go. If I take off timing belt, when the crankshaft and
> camshaft
> > > are
> > > > dead on the timing marks, and turn the crankshaft back (counter
> > clockwise)
> > > > two teeth on the timing belt, the exhaust manifold doesn't get red
hot
> > at
> > > > all and the car has lots more power. The only problem is that the
idel
> > is
> > > a
> > > > little high, and the timing range is off. What I mean by timing
range
> > is:
> > > > the whole range adjusting the distributor timing is 30 degrees BTDC
to
> > > TDC,
> > > > none for ATDC. I's really stange that I would have to move the
> > crankshaft
> > > > back two teeth to fix the problem, all logic says that the
crankshaft
> > and
> > > > camshaft should be set to thier respective timing marks. Does
anybody
> > any
> > > > any advice as I'm still dealing with this problem.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance
> > >
> > > One possibility is a clogged or defective EGR valve. If you open the
> valve
> > > by
> > > hand when it's cool it should remain open when you cover the vacuum
> nipple
> > > with a spare finger. If you open the valve by hand with the engine
> running
> > > (before it gets hot), the idle should drop and/or stumble/stall.
> > >
> > > Does this engine have some sort of air injection into the exhaust
> manifold
> > > as
> > > well as into the cat? If so, the diverter valve may be shot and it's
> > pumping
> > > air into the manifold all the time. If your exhaust is too rich
> (misfire),
> > > this would
> > > cause the glowing.
> > >
> > > I suspect that your cat was an empty canister when you removed it?
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>