Mike W

Seems to be working good so far. Car runs like when it's cold, just
have to wait until the car heats up a little bit to the cold mark on the
gage and it's fine. Pretty sure the problem is the thermo valve, as the ERG
opens when the car is cold (- 20 weather) going to wait until the summer to
work on that problem, but by then it won't be a problem. LOL
I was thinking about getting a new heat shield for the exhaust manifold, but
I can't, for the life of me loosen that snakey pipe that's attached at the
top, I had to cut the heat shield to get it off, when I replaced the head
gasket, what a pain!!!!
Anyhoo, I hope the repairs, turn out for the best with your brother's car,
good luck!!!

Mike

"Bob Bailin" <72027.3605@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:btp58u$m1k$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
> You're quite welcome. I'm glad to hear things worked out well
> enough with the Excel. The fact that it's such a reliable little car
> once you've gotten all the kinks worked out makes it difficult for
> my brother to simply junk his doomed one when all it seems to
> need is (just!) 2 fenders, a front bumper and a passenger door
> and a hood. In other words, with all the damage, it still runs and
> drives great. FWIW, the first body shop he took it to didn't even
> want to give an estimate.
>
> Regarding your car, you might want to eventually buy a heat
> shield for the exhaust manifold for about $20-30, just to protect
> the hood and any nearby hoses and wiring when summer comes
> around.
>
> But right now, I have to figure out what to do on this balmy, zero
> degree (F) day here in CT. Balmy for you, that is.
>
> Later,
> Bob
>
> "Mike W" <wilsonjmichael@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:vvnj1vabrufbb8@corp.supernews.com...
> > Hi Bob
> > Hope you had a nice Christmas, I did. Sorry I haven't gotten back to you
> > until now, it's been nutzzzz around here, I haven't had much time to
> myself
> > lately. I'm not even sure if you're even looking at this post anymore.
> > Anyhooooo, thanks for all the help, I'm going to leave the car the way
it
> > is, it's not perfect, but at least I know that the exhaust manifold
won't
> > get so hot that it will melt off!!!! LOL
> > As I mentioned before the problem has all but gone away. The remaining,
> > slight red glow (only when the car is driven faster then 110Kph) isn't
> that
> > bad at all. The remainder of the problem might be the Thermo to ERG
valve,
> > but for now I'm going to leave er alone until I find out for sure.
> >
> > Talk to you soon
> > Mike
> > PS funny story about your brother's doomed car. Funny thing is that the
> > Excell doesn't handle that badly, I know because I drive down, gravel
back
> > roads, here in the country. Sure it's not a Porche, but it handles ok
for
> a
> > small car : )
> >
> > I'll check from time to time to see if you
> > "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> > news:vtkb552jfosj6a@corp.supernews.com...
> > > I agree it could be a design flaw, however Hyundai would have taken
care
> > of
> > > the problem by now (1986-91)
> > > I'll research the problem, check to see if the dis has enough vacuum
as
> > you
> > > are suggesting.
> > > BTW, the dis timing is around 6% BTDC, I left the dis timing like this
> > > becacause I knew it to be correct. When I said that I changed the dis
> > timing
> > > to 12% BTDC, and got a posiative result, I changed it back to the
> > > recommended specs 4 BTDC +-1
> > > I found 4 degrees to be a little sluggish and 6 degrees to be right on
> the
> > > money.
> > > With the setup the way I have it right now, releasing my foot from the
> gas
> > > pedal sharply doesn't produce any back fire, however I think you ment
if
> I
> > > had the engine set to 12 degrees BTDC. That is a good theory that you
> > have,
> > > I'll give it a shot. One thing I forgot to mention in my last post...I
> has
> > > some white deposits on #1 and #2 spark plugs, after readjusting the
> valve
> > > lash with the engine hot, the plugs are fine, funny...when I lived in
> > > Ottawa, I worked as an auto mechanic for 7 years and have known lots
of
> > > mechnics to add a couple of thou to the specs so the can adjust valves
> > (over
> > > head cam) on a cold engine. This methiod has always worked great, I
gess
> > in
> > > my case I have valve margins that are warn unevenly producing a little
> bit
> > > of a gap. I'll definatly plug the air injection system and see if that
> > makes
> > > a difference, however it may be a few days before I get back to you as
I
> > > have to reinstall Windows XP having a internet problem and did
> everything
> > > that is humanly possiable to fix the problem and no go, so gots to
> > reinstall
> > > the OS. BTW if you have any computer, hardware, software, networking
> > > problems, I'm the man. My specility is operating system trouble
> shooting.
> > I
> > > worked for Compaq for 4+ years in the commercial divsion and have 10
> years
> > > of combined trouble shooting experience.
> > > Anyhoo I'll do a few tests on the car and let ya know.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > "Bob Bailin" <72027.3605@compuserve.com> wrote in message
> > > news:br8qm6$kq9$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
> > > > Thanks for the update. I've never driven my brother's 91 Fuel Inj
> > > > Excel at that high a speed for an extended period, but I did notice
> > > > that the exhaust manifold heat shield that I replaced a couple of
> > > > years ago looks pretty beat up for such a relatively young part,
> > > > which may mean that this may just be a design flaw with this
> > > > engine.
> > > >
> > > > As I've said before, if you're pushing the engine to keep it going
> > > > at 130Kph, you may not be supplying it with enough ported
> > > > vacuum to keep the dist at its maximum advance. If you have a
> > > > vacuum gauge, try putting it inline using a tee with the hose going
> > > > to the dist advance, and see what the readings are at 100 vs 130.
> > > >
> > > > You can always advance the base timing from 12 to, say, 14 BTDC
> > > > as long as the engine doesn't knock and performance doesn't
> > > > suffer.
> > > >
> > > > I doubt there's a carb problem, but if it was running too rich at
full
> > > > throttle, it should backfire a bit when you let up sharply on the
gas.
> > > > Other than a weak power valve spring or slightly clogged secondary
> > > > air bleeds, there's not a whole lot to adjust on a carb.
> > > >
> > > > And once again, check out the air injection hose to the exhaust
> > > > manifold. Block it off, plug it, whatever, to stop any air from
> entering
> > > > the manifold.
> > > >
> > > > And for what it's worth, I won't have a 91 Excel to work on anymore.
> > > > My brother managed to effectively total his on a slippery interstate
> > > > last week during that New England storm. Fishtailing and bouncing
> > > > from an adjacent car to a jersey barrier and back, even at a really
> > > > low speed, will tend to do that. And damn, I just got it to pass a
> > > > state emissions test for the first time in 6 years thanks to a new
> > > > catalytic converter I installed over Thanksgiving. The new part just
> > > > messed up the car's karma, and it was doomed.
> > > >
> > > > Bob
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:vtddldjlhdc5d@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > > Hi Bob
> > > > > Not sure if your still with me on this problem, I'm 90% sure I got
> the
> > > > > problem nailed. The new distributor made the car work better,
along
> > with
> > > > > adjusting the valve lash when the car is hot (remember I added a
> > > thousand
> > > > of
> > > > > an inch to the specs on a cold engine) Drove the car at 130Kph for
> 20
> > > min,
> > > > > the exhaust manifold is dark, dark, red, any lower speed and the
> > problem
> > > > > doesn't occur. So for now I'll just have to take it easy on the
car,
> > > until
> > > > I
> > > > > can find out what is causing the slight problem at 130 Kph. I was
> > > thinking
> > > > > that, the carb might not be set up properly, something I
overlooked.
> > > > Anyhoo
> > > > > I just wanted to let you know that I got most of the problem
figured
> > > out.
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:vt8n82rtbg67f3@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > > > Hi Bob
> > > > > > Got the new distributor, the new vacuum advance module works
fine
> IE
> > > > holds
> > > > > > vacuum unlike the old one. The car run a load better now,
> still
> > > the
> > > > > > same problem with the exhaust manifold except for one small
> > > difference:
> > > > > this
> > > > > > time I have to really drive the **** out of the car 130Kph for
the
> > for
> > > > the
> > > > > > problem to occur, before the manifold would start to turn dark
red
> > > > around
> > > > > > 100 Kph, now if I drive at 100 the manifold isn't red at all.
> > tomorrow
> > > > I'm
> > > > > > thinking about changing the distributor all together and setting
> the
> > > > valve
> > > > > > lash to the hot setting as I set the valve lash with the engine
> > clold
> > > > > > (added a thousand of an inch for the engine being cold) will let
> you
> > > > know
> > > > > > how that turns out
> > > > > > Cheers!!!!!!!!!!
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:vsq4nejgsuh0bc@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > > > > Hey Bob
> > > > > > > Haven't tried that test yet, been busy with family stuff.
> Tomorrow
> > > I'm
> > > > > > going
> > > > > > > into town to wrecker to see if I can get a used distribution
> for
> > > the
> > > > > car.
> > > > > > > I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks for all of your help so
> far.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:vsf8pub01h1u9e@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > > > > > Hey Bob
> > > > > > > > The car is a manual Transmission
> > > > > > > > That'a good test to try. I'll let you know what the result
is.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Bob Bailin" <72027.3605@compuserve.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:bq6t98$cmk$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
> > > > > > > > > I was going to say that I didn't expect this either, but
in
> a
> > > way
> > > > I
> > > > > > > > > did, because if it's dist-advance-related, the rpms are
the
> > key.
> > > > > > > > > Try one more test:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Set the base timing back to 12° BTDC, or whatever it will
> take
> > > > > > > > > without knocking or misfiring. On most cars with a
properly
> > > > > > > > > working distributor, this would cause a *lot* of pinging
> under
> > > > > > > > > load, but since your vacuum advance is questionable at
best,
> > > > > > > > > this extra base advance may just compensate to give you
> better
> > > > > > > > > results at high rpms. It won't solve your problem, but it
> > should
> > > > > > > > > at least a) reduce the slight red glow at 100Kph to no red
> > glow,
> > > > > > > > > and b) reduce the bright red at 130Kph to something less.
> > > > > > > > > IOW, there should be some noticeable improvement, even if
> > > > > > > > > it doesn't solve the problem completely (because the
vacuum
> > > > > > > > > advance provides an extra 16° of advance, and you're only
> > > > > > > > > providing an extra 8° using this method).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > BTW, is this a manual or automatic (I'm still not clear)?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bob
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in
message
> > > > > > > > > news:vsb8q2cpp6e1f@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > > > > > > > Update:
> > > > > > > > > > Drove the car at 130Kph, 4,000rpm, in 4th for about 10
> min,
> > > took
> > > > a
> > > > > > > look
> > > > > > > > at
> > > > > > > > > > the manifold, it's red hot. I thought for sure it
wouldn't
> > be
> > > > red,
> > > > > > > seems
> > > > > > > > > > like the problem starts to happen around 3,000rpm and
up.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in
> message
> > > > > > > > > > news:vsaafssrmtv7d2@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > > > > > > > > Hey Bob
> > > > > > > > > > > Drove the car for 20 min, in 4th, at 100 Kph, the
> exhaust
> > > > > manifold
> > > > > > > > isn't
> > > > > > > > > > red
> > > > > > > > > > > at all, not even "very, very dark red" as I mentioned
on
> > my
> > > > > > previous
> > > > > > > > > post.
> > > > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > > guess the problem can't be cause by vacuum advance as
> the
> > > > engine
> > > > > > > speed
> > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > higher in 4th then in over drive. One thing I'll try
is
> > > > driving
> > > > > > > > faster,
> > > > > > > > > > > let's say 120Kph, in 4th, and see what the result is.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > What I'm thinking it that the problem only happens
when
> > the
> > > > car
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > > under
> > > > > > > > > > > load. This would suggest a valve problem, however the
> car
> > > > drives
> > > > > > > fine,
> > > > > > > > > > good
> > > > > > > > > > > acceleration, doesn't spit and sputter. Maybe the
> problem
> > > has
> > > > to
> > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > fact that I'm in over drive, vacuum switch thing. The
> > > > > transmission
> > > > > > > > does
> > > > > > > > > > > require vacuum for it to switch into over drive, the
> > vacuum
> > > > > > canister
> > > > > > > > > maybe
> > > > > > > > > > > leaking slightly, however the car does switch into
over
> > > drive
> > > > > > > without
> > > > > > > > > any
> > > > > > > > > > > problems. Are you as confused about this problem as I
> am?
> > > LOL
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in
> > message
> > > > > > > > > > > news:vs8fvilqrrtt95@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > > > > > > > > > Never stopped by the wrecker today as, I had to
bring
> > the
> > > > wife
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > her
> > > > > > > > > > > > prenatal doc today. I did call the wrecker and they
> > > > suggested
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > call
> > > > > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday to make sure they have a Excel with a
engine
> in
> > > it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah! I was thinking about doing a test like that
> also,
> > I
> > > > > never
> > > > > > > got
> > > > > > > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > > > > > to trying such a test. I'll try it tomorrow and get
> back
> > > to
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > it.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I have to clear one thing up, on my last post I said
> > that
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > exhaust
> > > > > > > > > > > > manifold didn't glow red when I drove 100 Kph, that
is
> > > true,
> > > > > > > except
> > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > > > > > very very dark red colour (just on part of the
> > manifold).
> > > > You
> > > > > > > can't
> > > > > > > > > see
> > > > > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > > > very dark red colour during daylight hours, only at
> > night.
> > > > > SORRY
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > forgot
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > mention this yesterday.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > What I meant by wide open throttle is: almost to the
> > > floor.
> > > > If
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > > > > anymore acceleration from pressing down on the gas
> > pedal,
> > > > I'll
> > > > > > > back
> > > > > > > > > off
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > foot feed a little. If I try and squeeze every ounce
> of
> > > > speed
> > > > > > out
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > engine, I can get her going close to 150Kph. It's a
> good
> > > > > theory
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > have,
> > > > > > > > > > > > because there is a point when accelerating in over
> > drive,
> > > > > that,
> > > > > > > > > pressing
> > > > > > > > > > > > down the foot feed, actually stops the car from
> > > > accelerating,
> > > > > > thus
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > back her off a bit.
> > > > > > > > > > > > One thing is for certain, that I wouldn't be driving
> the
> > > car
> > > > > as
> > > > > > > > fast,
> > > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > > > > > possible all of the time, however I would like to
> drive
> > at
> > > > 100
> > > > > > > plus
> > > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > > > time to time without the worry of something catching
> on
> > > > fire.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I'll get back to you tomorrow
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Mike AKA Deefer Dog
> > > > > > > > > > > > "Never pet a burning dog!"
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > "Bob Bailin" <72027.3605@compuserve.com> wrote in
> > message
> > > > > > > > > > > > news:bq18rh$mup$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's a test for you:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You said that the manifold glows at 130Kph, but
not
> at
> > > > > 100Kph.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel it's because you have enough advance with a
> > > > defective
> > > > > > > dist
> > > > > > > > > > > > > at whatever the rpm's are at 100Kph, but not
enough
> > when
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > engine is running faster at 130Kph (the faster the
> > > engine
> > > > > > turns,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the more advance is required because the burn
speed
> of
> > > the
> > > > > gas
> > > > > > > > > > > > > remains constant).
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > So, what happens when you run the car at 100Kph in
a
> > > lower
> > > > > > gear?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The rpms should be the same or higher as when
you're
> > at
> > > > > > 130Kph,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > but the load on the engine is less. If it's indeed
> the
> > > > > timing,
> > > > > > > > your
> > > > > > > > > > > > > manifold should glow in the lower gear at the
lower
> > > speed
> > > > > > simply
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > because of lack of advance is dumping unburned
HC's
> > into
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > manifold, where they continue to burn.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Try it and let me know.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > One other q: Are you truly at wide open throttle
> > (pedal
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > floor)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > at 130Kph once you hit that speed (not just when
> > you're
> > > > > > > > > accelerating)?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are, you're asking too much from your
engine.
> > One
> > > > of
> > > > > > > those
> > > > > > > > > > > > > google posts (regarding the motor home going
uphill
> at
> > > > WOT)
> > > > > > > > > mentioned
> > > > > > > > > > > > > that a glowing manifold is often the result of
> running
> > > at
> > > > > WOT
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > > > extended periods of time. Most carbs have a power
> > > circuit
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > enriches the mixture at WOT (as a result of
manifold
> > > > vacuum
> > > > > > > > dropping
> > > > > > > > > > > > > to near zero) for better acceleration. But the
rich
> > > > mixture
> > > > > > > > results
> > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the glow after a period of time, but how often
does
> > one
> > > > > > actually
> > > > > > > > > > > > > floor it for more than a minute or two, even?
Hardly
> > > ever
> > > > > > > (you're
> > > > > > > > > > > > > supposed to downshift instead).
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote
in
> > > > message
> > > > > > > > > > > > > news:vs3su5obc05e21@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ya I also did a Google search for my problem and
> > found
> > > > > > various
> > > > > > > > > > reason
> > > > > > > > > > > > why
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is happening. More often then not, the
> problem
> > > was
> > > > > > > timing.
> > > > > > > > > But
> > > > > > > > > > > > what's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > got me concerned is the fact that, the problem
> > doesn't
> > > > > > happen
> > > > > > > > when
> > > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > > > drive
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > around 100Kph, Surely it could be that I do have
a
> > > > > defective
> > > > > > > > > vacuum
> > > > > > > > > > > > > advance
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > module, but why at full throttle? Today I'll be
> > > checking
> > > > > out
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > local
> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrecker
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > for another distributor or engine. I wish the
> > problem
> > > > was
> > > > > > > burnt
> > > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > > > leaky
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > valves because the car would perform quite badly
> and
> > > the
> > > > > > > > solution
> > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > obvious. When I installed the new head gasket, I
> > > looked
> > > > at
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > valves,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > was quite a bit left on the valve margins, so I
> > > assumed
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > valves
> > > > > > > > > > > > > were
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ok. Again the mixture cannot be too rich as the
> > spark
> > > > > plugs
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > tan
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > colour. As far as the valve clearances go, I
> > > originally
> > > > > set
> > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > > > loose,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > because I thought that the valves weren't
closing.
> > > After
> > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > determined
> > > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wasn't the problem, I set them when the engine
was
> > > cold,
> > > > I
> > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > added
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > another thousand to the measurement to
compensate
> > for
> > > > the
> > > > > > > engine
> > > > > > > > > > being
> > > > > > > > > > > > > cold.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not sure of the condition of the valve springs.
If
> I
> > > > don't
> > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > any
> > > > > > > > > > > luck
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > with the distributor, I'll try setting the
valves
> to
> > > the
> > > > > hot
> > > > > > > > > > > clearances,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > no go, I'm going to bring the car to a friend's
> > heated
> > > > > > garage
> > > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > > > > > tear
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the whole thing down. I did mention that the car
> is
> > > > > running
> > > > > > > > better
> > > > > > > > > > > now?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > LOL
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Bob Bailin" <72027.3605@compuserve.com> wrote
in
> > > > message
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > news:bprum5$sd5$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just for my own curiosity, I did a google
search
> > on
> > > > Red
> > > > > > Hot
> > > > > > > > > > Exhaust
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Manifold, and was sort of surprised to see
this
> > > thread
> > > > > > near
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > top.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But further down, there's a variety of
opinions
> as
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > cause.
> > > > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > most common ones are: mixture too lean, timing
> > > > retarded,
> > > > > > > burnt
> > > > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > leaky exhaust valves, mixture too rich.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're currently working on the 2nd one, but I
> was
> > > > > > wondering
> > > > > > > > > when
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you replaced the head gasket (properly) if the
> > valve
> > > > > > > clearance
> > > > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > set properly when you put things back
together?
> If
> > > > it's
> > > > > > too
> > > > > > > > > tight,
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > valves may start to burn, and they might start
> to
> > > > float
> > > > > > (not
> > > > > > > > > seat
> > > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > long enough) at high rpms? You should check
the
> > > > > > clearances,
> > > > > > > 4
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > valves at a time at TDC and then the other 4
> after
> > > > > turning
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > engine
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > over to the next TDC. The engine should be
fully
> > > > warmed
> > > > > up
> > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not overheated. It's better for the gap to be
> > > slightly
> > > > > > > looser
> > > > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > > > > too
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tight. Also, I assume all the valve springs
were
> > in
> > > > > decent
> > > > > > > > > shape,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > none shorter than the others. I ask this
because
> I
> > > > made
> > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > mistake
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on a Datsun about 15 years ago. It ran
perfectly
> > for
> > > > 10
> > > > > > > miles
> > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > highway until it just died, no warning.
Started
> > > right
> > > > up
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > few
> > > > > > > > > > hours
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > later after it had cooled down completely.
Seems
> > > that
> > > > I
> > > > > > had
> > > > > > > > set
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cold clearance properly, but should have
simply
> > > warmed
> > > > > it
> > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the driveway for 10 minutes, not taken it out
on
> > the
> > > > > road
> > > > > > > > before
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > setting the hot clearance.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca>
> wrote
> > in
> > > > > > message
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > news:vs24m41bomh112@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok we'll do that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure both chambers should hold
> > vacuum,
> > > > it's
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > top
> > > > > > > > > > > > chamber
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doesn't hold any vacuum at all. I'll try the
> > local
> > > > > > > wrecker,
> > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > last
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time I was there they had 4 Excels but all
> were
> > > > > missing
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > engines,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > luck. I'll call them on Monday. I tried to
> > reverse
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > vacuum
> > > > > > > > > > > lines
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (sorry
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > forgot to mention that) it didn't solve the
> > > problem.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > > 86
> > > > > > > > > > model
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have a O2 sensor. I'll try the wrecker, or
buy
> a
> > > new
> > > > > > part
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > car.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the problem does disappear if I drive slow
> (100
> > > Kph)
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > highway.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Bob Bailin" <72027.3605@compuserve.com>
wrote
> > in
> > > > > > message
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
news:bpqrf3$rj7$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My gut feeling is that it's still the lack
> of
> > > > > advance
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > distributor
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at high speeds resulting in too much
> unburned
> > > HCs.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > vacuum
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > advance is available from Hyundai as a
> > separate
> > > > part
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > unknown price (their parts website is down
> > right
> > > > > now).
> > > > > > > > There
> > > > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 parts numbers, one for an automatic
> tranny,
> > > the
> > > > > > other
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > > manual.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or once again you can check out a local
> > junkyard
> > > > for
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > lot
> > > > > > > > > > less.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After writing the above, I went to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.hmaservice.com/webtech/
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and selected a 1988 Excel and looked at
the
> > > TSB's.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Under Fuel System there's a great article
> > > > > (V1-30-002)
> > > > > > > > > > explaining
> > > > > > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > feedback
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > carbs from 1986 and later work, along with
> > lots
> > > of
> > > > > > > > diagrams.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the 2 nipples on the distributor, one
is
> > for
> > > > > > normal
> > > > > > > > > vacuum
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > advance, the other is for additional
advance
> > > when
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > engine
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is cold or at high altitudes. I can't tell
> > from
> > > > your
> > > > > > > > > > description
> > > > > > > > > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > one of the two is broken, but you can:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the engine is warm, there should be
no
> > > > suction
> > > > > at
> > > > > > > > > either
> > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the two hoses connected to the advance at
> > idle.
> > > If
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > rev
> > > > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > engine, there should be vacuum at one hose
> but
> > > not
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > other.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This one is the normal advance hose, the
> other
> > > is
> > > > > > > > therefore
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cold advance hose and will only have
vacuum
> > when
> > > > the
> > > > > > car
> > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cold, even at idle. If the cold advance
> nipple
> > > is
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doesn't hold vacuum, then you'll only have
> > cold
> > > > > > > > driveability
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > problems. If the normal advance nipple is
> the
> > > one
> > > > > > that's
> > > > > > > > > shot,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you're not getting enough advance at
highway
> > > > speeds.
> > > > > > If
> > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the case, I'd try switching the two
hoses
> > > > > > temporarily
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > see
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if it eliminates the red-hot manifold
> problem.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Once you've got that fixed, I'd check out
> the
> > O2
> > > > > > sensor
> > > > > > > > > next.
> > > > > > > > > > If
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you've never changed it, it's probably
burnt
> > out
> > > > > after
> > > > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years. You can test it by using a digital
> > > > voltmeter
> > > > > > (not
> > > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > > > > analog!)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to see if it produces voltage at the
> connector
> > > > when
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > car
> > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fully warmed up. No voltage = dead sensor,
> and
> > > the
> > > > > > > > computer
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thinks the mixture is too rich and tries
to
> > lean
> > > > it
> > > > > > out.
> > > > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > > > > sure
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how it's done on your carburated engine.
> > > > Aftermarket
> > > > > > O2
> > > > > > > > > > sensors
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are fine, but you need an impact wrench
and
> a
> > > lot
> > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > penetrating
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oil (or a torch) to get the old one out of
> the
> > > > > exhaust
> > > > > > > > > > manifold
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without breaking it off.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And finally you can always try finishing
> > > cleaning
> > > > > out
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > EGR
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > passage in the intake manifold.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But do try fixing up the distributor
first.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Wilson"
<wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca>
> > > wrote
> > > > in
> > > > > > > > message
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > news:vs0cia2l0rva74@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Update:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Took the distributor apart, the governor
> > > weights
> > > > > > were
> > > > > > > > > stuck,
> > > > > > > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > moved
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > barely. So I cleaned the governor
weights,
> > > > spindle
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > greased
> > > > > > > > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > up.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > weights move more freely now, which was
> part
> > > of
> > > > my
> > > > > > > > > problem.
> > > > > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > breaker
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > plate was also sticking a little,
cleaned
> it
> > > up
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > greased
> > > > > > > > > > > it,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > adjusted
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > igniter (.030 ")
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that I might have to replace the
> > > vacuum
> > > > > > > advance
> > > > > > > > > > module
> > > > > > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seem to move to much. With a vacuum line
> > > > attached
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > bottom
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nipple,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sucking (with my mouth as a don't have a
> > hand
> > > > > pump)
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > line
> > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > build
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pressure, the igniter advances, but not
> very
> > > > much,
> > > > > > > maybe
> > > > > > > > 2
> > > > > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > > > 3
> > > > > > > > > > > > > mm.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > top
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nipple doesn't hold any vacuum at all.
The
> > car
> > > > is
> > > > > > > > > definitely
> > > > > > > > > > > > > working
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > better
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now. I set the ignition timing to 4
> degrees
> > > > BTDC,
> > > > > > now
> > > > > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > back
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > firing. With the engine warmed up,
timing
> > > light
> > > > > > > > attached,
> > > > > > > > > > > revved
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > engine,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > observed the timing advancing properly.
> > Before
> > > I
> > > > > > fixed
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > distributor
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > timing was actually going to ATDC 1 or 2
> > > degrees
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > then
> > > > > > > > > > > > > advancing
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTDC
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to 10 degrees, as I revved the engine.
> Took
> > > the
> > > > > car
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > drive
> > > > > > > > > > > > > down
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > road, brought it up to 130 Kph for 15
min,
> > > > stopped
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > exhaust
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > manifold
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is still red hot. Drove back home in
over
> > > drive
> > > > at
> > > > > > > > 100Kph,
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > exhaust
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > manifold isn't red hot. I'm still
baffled,
> > any
> > > > > > > > > suggestions?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Bob Bailin

Do yourself a favor and pull off the vacuum hose to the EGR
and plug it, and see if there's any improvement. Those
thermal switches are a pain to remove because they can
snap off if you force them too much.

If there's a hot air door in the snorkel of the air cleaner, make
sure it works. And make sure that you're getting that extra
vacuum advance when the engine is cold.

I was going to suggest that you check out all the vacuum hoses
for leaks, but then I saw a picture of the vac hose assy. What
a nightmare! I just hope everything is connected to where it
should be.

Bob

"Mike W" <wilsonjmichael@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:100n0ra5n1fuk5f@corp.supernews.com...
> Seems to be working good so far. Car runs like when it's cold, just
> have to wait until the car heats up a little bit to the cold mark on the
> gage and it's fine. Pretty sure the problem is the thermo valve, as the
ERG
> opens when the car is cold (- 20 weather) going to wait until the summer
to
> work on that problem, but by then it won't be a problem. LOL
> I was thinking about getting a new heat shield for the exhaust manifold,
but
> I can't, for the life of me loosen that snakey pipe that's attached at the
> top, I had to cut the heat shield to get it off, when I replaced the head
> gasket, what a pain!!!!
> Anyhoo, I hope the repairs, turn out for the best with your brother's car,
> good luck!!!
>
> Mike