Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
 

Retired VIP <Jackj14321@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:nit6a3drh4sqo58e1glkfcacklarkohc5d@4ax.com:

> On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 14:26:04 GMT, SnoMan <admin@snoman.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew
>><RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to
>>>run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute
>>>charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station"
>>>wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A
>>>service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5
>>>worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a
>>>profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill
>>>up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15
>>>worth of gasoline.
>>
>>And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
>>What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
>>or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
>>that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
>>car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
>>KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
>>need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
>>with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
>>much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
>>because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
>>of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
>>charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
>>more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
>>will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
>>and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
>>it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
>>going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
>>that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
>>kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
>>because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
>>in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
>>our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
>>60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
>>even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
>>only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
>>about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
>>out of that problem)
>>-----------------
>>TheSnoMan.com
>
> Not to mention the fact that it takes more energy to produce a gallon
> of ethanol than that gallon contains. You have to consider all inputs
> needed to produce that gallon when computing the cost, fertilizer
> (from natural gas), fuel used by the tractor that pulls the planter,
> fuel used by the combine that harvests the corn, fuel used by the
> trucks to transport the corn, heat used to sterilize the mash, heat
> used to distill the ethanol, fuel used to transport the ethanol. In
> short, it cost about 1 1/2 gallons of ethanol to produce 1 gallon of
> ethanol.
>
> Not to mention the fact that my breakfast corn flakes will triple in
> price.
>

There is only 8 cents worth of corn in your box of flakes. any big
price rise is from gouging and mostly transportation costs. KB






> Jack
>
>
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>



--
Thunder Snake #9
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Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
 

In article <E4Voi.7999$iX3.862@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote:

> Oh gawd... Don't get me started on the ethenol scam.
>
> Of course if you have stock in Archer Daniels, you might be sitting in
> fat city.
>
> Ethanol..... Not only does it cost more to produce a gallon than it
> delivers in BTUs, diversion of corn production has caused grocery prices
> to skyrocket. And you can bet your bottom bippy that the family farms
> ain't cashin' in on the bonanza.

Unfortunately you're correct.
Last year Consumers Reports had a very good article on this subject.
They said:
The Ethenol cost more than gasoline for the energy obtained and your IC
engine will produce only about 75% of the power it does with gasoline.
The vehicle manufacturers love it because they get a fuel mileage boast
if their vehicles can burn it.
Since there are very few Ethenol stations you may have to waste fuel
getting to one for a fill.
Ethenol is all about reducing oil imports from the Middle East.

Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
 

In article <E4Voi.7999$iX3.862@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote:

> Oh gawd... Don't get me started on the ethenol scam.
>
> Of course if you have stock in Archer Daniels, you might be sitting in
> fat city.
>
> Ethanol..... Not only does it cost more to produce a gallon than it
> delivers in BTUs, diversion of corn production has caused grocery prices
> to skyrocket. And you can bet your bottom bippy that the family farms
> ain't cashin' in on the bonanza.

Unfortunately you're correct.
Last year Consumers Reports had a very good article on this subject.
They said:
The Ethenol cost more than gasoline for the energy obtained and your IC
engine will produce only about 75% of the power it does with gasoline.
The vehicle manufacturers love it because they get a fuel mileage boast
if their vehicles can burn it.
Since there are very few Ethenol stations you may have to waste fuel
getting to one for a fill.
Ethenol is all about reducing oil imports from the Middle East.

Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
 

In article <E4Voi.7999$iX3.862@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote:

> Oh gawd... Don't get me started on the ethenol scam.
>
> Of course if you have stock in Archer Daniels, you might be sitting in
> fat city.
>
> Ethanol..... Not only does it cost more to produce a gallon than it
> delivers in BTUs, diversion of corn production has caused grocery prices
> to skyrocket. And you can bet your bottom bippy that the family farms
> ain't cashin' in on the bonanza.

Unfortunately you're correct.
Last year Consumers Reports had a very good article on this subject.
They said:
The Ethenol cost more than gasoline for the energy obtained and your IC
engine will produce only about 75% of the power it does with gasoline.
The vehicle manufacturers love it because they get a fuel mileage boast
if their vehicles can burn it.
Since there are very few Ethenol stations you may have to waste fuel
getting to one for a fill.
Ethenol is all about reducing oil imports from the Middle East.

Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
 

Just Facts <Jfact@intnet.wrld> wrote:
>In article <E4Voi.7999$iX3.862@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote:
>
>> Oh gawd... Don't get me started on the ethenol scam.
>>
>> Of course if you have stock in Archer Daniels, you might be sitting in
>> fat city.
>>
>> Ethanol..... Not only does it cost more to produce a gallon than it
>> delivers in BTUs, diversion of corn production has caused grocery prices
>> to skyrocket. And you can bet your bottom bippy that the family farms
>> ain't cashin' in on the bonanza.
>
>Unfortunately you're correct.
>Last year Consumers Reports had a very good article on this subject.
>They said:
>The Ethenol cost more than gasoline for the energy obtained and your IC
>engine will produce only about 75% of the power it does with gasoline.
>The vehicle manufacturers love it because they get a fuel mileage boast
>if their vehicles can burn it.

All of this is true, BUT the good news is that adding ethanol to gas gives
you an effective octane boost, without adding lead or MTBE.

So don't think of ethanol as a gasoline substitute, think of it as a
substitute for MTBE or tetraethyl lead. And it's a WHOLE LOT friendlier
to the environment and the people working with it than either.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
 

Just Facts <Jfact@intnet.wrld> wrote:
>In article <E4Voi.7999$iX3.862@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote:
>
>> Oh gawd... Don't get me started on the ethenol scam.
>>
>> Of course if you have stock in Archer Daniels, you might be sitting in
>> fat city.
>>
>> Ethanol..... Not only does it cost more to produce a gallon than it
>> delivers in BTUs, diversion of corn production has caused grocery prices
>> to skyrocket. And you can bet your bottom bippy that the family farms
>> ain't cashin' in on the bonanza.
>
>Unfortunately you're correct.
>Last year Consumers Reports had a very good article on this subject.
>They said:
>The Ethenol cost more than gasoline for the energy obtained and your IC
>engine will produce only about 75% of the power it does with gasoline.
>The vehicle manufacturers love it because they get a fuel mileage boast
>if their vehicles can burn it.

All of this is true, BUT the good news is that adding ethanol to gas gives
you an effective octane boost, without adding lead or MTBE.

So don't think of ethanol as a gasoline substitute, think of it as a
substitute for MTBE or tetraethyl lead. And it's a WHOLE LOT friendlier
to the environment and the people working with it than either.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
 

Just Facts <Jfact@intnet.wrld> wrote:
>In article <E4Voi.7999$iX3.862@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote:
>
>> Oh gawd... Don't get me started on the ethenol scam.
>>
>> Of course if you have stock in Archer Daniels, you might be sitting in
>> fat city.
>>
>> Ethanol..... Not only does it cost more to produce a gallon than it
>> delivers in BTUs, diversion of corn production has caused grocery prices
>> to skyrocket. And you can bet your bottom bippy that the family farms
>> ain't cashin' in on the bonanza.
>
>Unfortunately you're correct.
>Last year Consumers Reports had a very good article on this subject.
>They said:
>The Ethenol cost more than gasoline for the energy obtained and your IC
>engine will produce only about 75% of the power it does with gasoline.
>The vehicle manufacturers love it because they get a fuel mileage boast
>if their vehicles can burn it.

All of this is true, BUT the good news is that adding ethanol to gas gives
you an effective octane boost, without adding lead or MTBE.

So don't think of ethanol as a gasoline substitute, think of it as a
substitute for MTBE or tetraethyl lead. And it's a WHOLE LOT friendlier
to the environment and the people working with it than either.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
 

On 23 Jul 2007 13:42:25 -0400, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>Just Facts <Jfact@intnet.wrld> wrote:
>>In article <E4Voi.7999$iX3.862@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>> Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>The Ethenol cost more than gasoline for the energy obtained and your IC
>>engine will produce only about 75% of the power it does with gasoline.
>>The vehicle manufacturers love it because they get a fuel mileage boast
>>if their vehicles can burn it.
>
>All of this is true, BUT the good news is that adding ethanol to gas gives
>you an effective octane boost, without adding lead or MTBE.
>
>So don't think of ethanol as a gasoline substitute, think of it as a
>substitute for MTBE or tetraethyl lead. And it's a WHOLE LOT friendlier
>to the environment and the people working with it than either.
>--scott

Yes, you're right about ethanol boosting the octane of gasoline. But
when used to boost octane, the mix is 10% ethanol - 90% gasoline. That
is the ratio used in most of the country. ADM, Cargil and the US
farmer are pushing for 85% ethanol, called E85. That ratio will use
more corn than was planted this year. It will cause food shortages in
our country as well as the rest of the world. More acreage will be
dedicated to corn for ethanol and less for food crops. Not only will
the cost of your corn flakes go up but beef, pork, chicken, flour,
bread and all dairy products will sky rocket in price.

As Herbert Einstein (Alberts older brother) once said, "Buddy, you
ain't seen nothing yet!"


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Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
 

On 23 Jul 2007 13:42:25 -0400, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>Just Facts <Jfact@intnet.wrld> wrote:
>>In article <E4Voi.7999$iX3.862@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>> Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>The Ethenol cost more than gasoline for the energy obtained and your IC
>>engine will produce only about 75% of the power it does with gasoline.
>>The vehicle manufacturers love it because they get a fuel mileage boast
>>if their vehicles can burn it.
>
>All of this is true, BUT the good news is that adding ethanol to gas gives
>you an effective octane boost, without adding lead or MTBE.
>
>So don't think of ethanol as a gasoline substitute, think of it as a
>substitute for MTBE or tetraethyl lead. And it's a WHOLE LOT friendlier
>to the environment and the people working with it than either.
>--scott

Yes, you're right about ethanol boosting the octane of gasoline. But
when used to boost octane, the mix is 10% ethanol - 90% gasoline. That
is the ratio used in most of the country. ADM, Cargil and the US
farmer are pushing for 85% ethanol, called E85. That ratio will use
more corn than was planted this year. It will cause food shortages in
our country as well as the rest of the world. More acreage will be
dedicated to corn for ethanol and less for food crops. Not only will
the cost of your corn flakes go up but beef, pork, chicken, flour,
bread and all dairy products will sky rocket in price.

As Herbert Einstein (Alberts older brother) once said, "Buddy, you
ain't seen nothing yet!"


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000758-3, 07/22/2007
Tested on: 7/23/2007 3:28:32 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
 

On 23 Jul 2007 13:42:25 -0400, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>Just Facts <Jfact@intnet.wrld> wrote:
>>In article <E4Voi.7999$iX3.862@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>> Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>The Ethenol cost more than gasoline for the energy obtained and your IC
>>engine will produce only about 75% of the power it does with gasoline.
>>The vehicle manufacturers love it because they get a fuel mileage boast
>>if their vehicles can burn it.
>
>All of this is true, BUT the good news is that adding ethanol to gas gives
>you an effective octane boost, without adding lead or MTBE.
>
>So don't think of ethanol as a gasoline substitute, think of it as a
>substitute for MTBE or tetraethyl lead. And it's a WHOLE LOT friendlier
>to the environment and the people working with it than either.
>--scott

Yes, you're right about ethanol boosting the octane of gasoline. But
when used to boost octane, the mix is 10% ethanol - 90% gasoline. That
is the ratio used in most of the country. ADM, Cargil and the US
farmer are pushing for 85% ethanol, called E85. That ratio will use
more corn than was planted this year. It will cause food shortages in
our country as well as the rest of the world. More acreage will be
dedicated to corn for ethanol and less for food crops. Not only will
the cost of your corn flakes go up but beef, pork, chicken, flour,
bread and all dairy products will sky rocket in price.

As Herbert Einstein (Alberts older brother) once said, "Buddy, you
ain't seen nothing yet!"


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000758-3, 07/22/2007
Tested on: 7/23/2007 3:28:32 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
 

On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 17:26:19 GMT, Just Facts <Jfact@intnet.wrld>
wrote:

>In article <E4Voi.7999$iX3.862@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote:
>
>> Oh gawd... Don't get me started on the ethenol scam.
>>
>> Of course if you have stock in Archer Daniels, you might be sitting in
>> fat city.
>>
>> Ethanol..... Not only does it cost more to produce a gallon than it
>> delivers in BTUs, diversion of corn production has caused grocery prices
>> to skyrocket. And you can bet your bottom bippy that the family farms
>> ain't cashin' in on the bonanza.
>
>Unfortunately you're correct.
>Last year Consumers Reports had a very good article on this subject.
>They said:
>The Ethenol cost more than gasoline for the energy obtained and your IC
>engine will produce only about 75% of the power it does with gasoline.
>The vehicle manufacturers love it because they get a fuel mileage boast
>if their vehicles can burn it.

That is actually an outrageous fraud. Chrysler was selling flex fuel
(gas or E85) minivans 10 years ago. Lots of them. The people who
bought them didn't even know, unless they read and understood the
little blurb in the owner's manual. It wouldn't have mattered anyway
because there were only a handful of places selling E85 in the whole
country. But Chrysler gut a huge CAFE credit on these minivans (IIRC,
it was like the minivans were rated at 40 mpg) which they could use to
offset the lousy gas mileage of their land barges and monster pickups.

>Since there are very few Ethenol stations you may have to waste fuel
>getting to one for a fill.
>Ethenol is all about reducing oil imports from the Middle East.

I thought it was all about subsidizing ADM.

Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
 

On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 17:26:19 GMT, Just Facts <Jfact@intnet.wrld>
wrote:

>In article <E4Voi.7999$iX3.862@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote:
>
>> Oh gawd... Don't get me started on the ethenol scam.
>>
>> Of course if you have stock in Archer Daniels, you might be sitting in
>> fat city.
>>
>> Ethanol..... Not only does it cost more to produce a gallon than it
>> delivers in BTUs, diversion of corn production has caused grocery prices
>> to skyrocket. And you can bet your bottom bippy that the family farms
>> ain't cashin' in on the bonanza.
>
>Unfortunately you're correct.
>Last year Consumers Reports had a very good article on this subject.
>They said:
>The Ethenol cost more than gasoline for the energy obtained and your IC
>engine will produce only about 75% of the power it does with gasoline.
>The vehicle manufacturers love it because they get a fuel mileage boast
>if their vehicles can burn it.

That is actually an outrageous fraud. Chrysler was selling flex fuel
(gas or E85) minivans 10 years ago. Lots of them. The people who
bought them didn't even know, unless they read and understood the
little blurb in the owner's manual. It wouldn't have mattered anyway
because there were only a handful of places selling E85 in the whole
country. But Chrysler gut a huge CAFE credit on these minivans (IIRC,
it was like the minivans were rated at 40 mpg) which they could use to
offset the lousy gas mileage of their land barges and monster pickups.

>Since there are very few Ethenol stations you may have to waste fuel
>getting to one for a fill.
>Ethenol is all about reducing oil imports from the Middle East.

I thought it was all about subsidizing ADM.

Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
 

On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 17:26:19 GMT, Just Facts <Jfact@intnet.wrld>
wrote:

>In article <E4Voi.7999$iX3.862@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote:
>
>> Oh gawd... Don't get me started on the ethenol scam.
>>
>> Of course if you have stock in Archer Daniels, you might be sitting in
>> fat city.
>>
>> Ethanol..... Not only does it cost more to produce a gallon than it
>> delivers in BTUs, diversion of corn production has caused grocery prices
>> to skyrocket. And you can bet your bottom bippy that the family farms
>> ain't cashin' in on the bonanza.
>
>Unfortunately you're correct.
>Last year Consumers Reports had a very good article on this subject.
>They said:
>The Ethenol cost more than gasoline for the energy obtained and your IC
>engine will produce only about 75% of the power it does with gasoline.
>The vehicle manufacturers love it because they get a fuel mileage boast
>if their vehicles can burn it.

That is actually an outrageous fraud. Chrysler was selling flex fuel
(gas or E85) minivans 10 years ago. Lots of them. The people who
bought them didn't even know, unless they read and understood the
little blurb in the owner's manual. It wouldn't have mattered anyway
because there were only a handful of places selling E85 in the whole
country. But Chrysler gut a huge CAFE credit on these minivans (IIRC,
it was like the minivans were rated at 40 mpg) which they could use to
offset the lousy gas mileage of their land barges and monster pickups.

>Since there are very few Ethenol stations you may have to waste fuel
>getting to one for a fill.
>Ethenol is all about reducing oil imports from the Middle East.

I thought it was all about subsidizing ADM.

Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
 

On 23 Jul 2007 13:42:25 -0400, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>Just Facts <Jfact@intnet.wrld> wrote:
>>In article <E4Voi.7999$iX3.862@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>> Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Oh gawd... Don't get me started on the ethenol scam.
>>>
>>> Of course if you have stock in Archer Daniels, you might be sitting in
>>> fat city.
>>>
>>> Ethanol..... Not only does it cost more to produce a gallon than it
>>> delivers in BTUs, diversion of corn production has caused grocery prices
>>> to skyrocket. And you can bet your bottom bippy that the family farms
>>> ain't cashin' in on the bonanza.
>>
>>Unfortunately you're correct.
>>Last year Consumers Reports had a very good article on this subject.
>>They said:
>>The Ethenol cost more than gasoline for the energy obtained and your IC
>>engine will produce only about 75% of the power it does with gasoline.
>>The vehicle manufacturers love it because they get a fuel mileage boast
>>if their vehicles can burn it.
>
>All of this is true, BUT the good news is that adding ethanol to gas gives
>you an effective octane boost, without adding lead or MTBE.
>
>So don't think of ethanol as a gasoline substitute, think of it as a
>substitute for MTBE or tetraethyl lead. And it's a WHOLE LOT friendlier
>to the environment and the people working with it than either.
>--scott

That is the best argument for the amount that has been in gas for
years (in the Midwest). It also promotes complete combustion for
cleaner exhaust. Not sure how much is really required for those
purposes, though.

Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
 

On 23 Jul 2007 13:42:25 -0400, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>Just Facts <Jfact@intnet.wrld> wrote:
>>In article <E4Voi.7999$iX3.862@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>> Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Oh gawd... Don't get me started on the ethenol scam.
>>>
>>> Of course if you have stock in Archer Daniels, you might be sitting in
>>> fat city.
>>>
>>> Ethanol..... Not only does it cost more to produce a gallon than it
>>> delivers in BTUs, diversion of corn production has caused grocery prices
>>> to skyrocket. And you can bet your bottom bippy that the family farms
>>> ain't cashin' in on the bonanza.
>>
>>Unfortunately you're correct.
>>Last year Consumers Reports had a very good article on this subject.
>>They said:
>>The Ethenol cost more than gasoline for the energy obtained and your IC
>>engine will produce only about 75% of the power it does with gasoline.
>>The vehicle manufacturers love it because they get a fuel mileage boast
>>if their vehicles can burn it.
>
>All of this is true, BUT the good news is that adding ethanol to gas gives
>you an effective octane boost, without adding lead or MTBE.
>
>So don't think of ethanol as a gasoline substitute, think of it as a
>substitute for MTBE or tetraethyl lead. And it's a WHOLE LOT friendlier
>to the environment and the people working with it than either.
>--scott

That is the best argument for the amount that has been in gas for
years (in the Midwest). It also promotes complete combustion for
cleaner exhaust. Not sure how much is really required for those
purposes, though.