Re: I think my Honda dealer lied about my Fit
 

TomP wrote:
> dgk,
>
> First off I want you to know, I am not condoning or defending such dealer
> behavior, as you have experienced.
>
> BUT:
> ANYTIME you are trying to procure a "hot selling" car (or what ever), unless
> you plan to pay a premium for it, your order will continue to slide down the
> list. As long as someone with a better offer steps up before your time.
>
[snip]

Key phrase here is "before your time." When you contract to make a
purchase and the dealer to make a sale, it changes things. He paid his
money down, ordered "his" car and, when it arrived, the dealer
apparently turned around and sold it off to the highest and best bidder.
THAT is a problem.

If the dealership wants to maximize their profit, I have no problem with
that however the time to set the price is when the contract is signed.
If they didn't want to sell it for that price, they should not have
entered into the contract with the guy. Simply tell him: "You want the
FIT? It'll cost you $xx,xxxx."


> Supply and demand.... it's as simple as that.

Sure! On a sale right off the lot. Once you take my money you don't
change the rules of the game while the ball's in play. You may try but
it will cost you to do so.

Re: I think my Honda dealer lied about my Fit
 

We had a similar situation in Oct03 when the new Prius came out. Buyers
were stacked around every dealership, and the "dealer added markup"
number just grew and grew. My local dealer finally made it a sort of
auction, in which money talked, not deposit date. In late '03, some
green-conscious buyers saw the desired color and features arriving and
paid up to an incredible + $7,000. In '04 the wait list grew to 6-8 months!

The dealers simply said "supply and demand", and they're right unless
there's a "real" contract in place, with consideration and specific
terms. If there's a contract that says "THIS AGREEMENT GUARANTEES YOUR
OPTION TO PURCHASE THE NEXT FIT SPORT AUTOTRANS IN COLOR XXXX TO ARRIVE
AT THIS DEALERSHIP, PURCHASE PRICE TO BE MSRP PLUS ADDED DEALER MARKUP
OF $YYYY, SUCH OPTION TO BE EXECUTED WITHIN 24 HOURS OF NOTICE OF
VEHICLE ARRIVAL", or somesuch, the "deposit" may guarantee nothing more
than to be placed on an auction list.

In late '03 we let our fingers do the walking, and bought precisely the
Prius we wanted for MSRP (pinstriping, a few other things, at no added
cost!) at a dealership in a rural community 1500 miles away (suspicious
of that lektrik stuff), then paid $800 to have it transported. For two
years I could have sold it for the price we paid!

In August my daughter bought her FIT and got precisely what she wanted.
It took an hour of phone calls to find a dealer less than two hours'
drive - selling at MSRP, and with a free IPOD hookup. She had worked
hard and saved, so paid cash for her first new car. What a day!! We made
it a family outing, and I rode back in her car part of the way. At her
age I don't get that much quality time - and her joy was boundless. A
super ride, a terrific car, and at the end of the day there was none of
that feeling that we were taken advantage of.

TACTIC ON HIGH-DEMAND CARS: there's a salesman (forget the dealership!)
willing to work with you, somewhere. Call/visit many dealerships. When
you call a dealership, talk turkey to a salesman directly and do NOT get
put on a dealership list. Offer the salesman a quiet extra $100. That
salesman is interested in a commission, and may put your name in his/her
hip pocket in case another buyer falls through. Otherwise, that sale
might go to some other salesman's buyer who's "on the list". You could
become the original buyer's "brother-in-law". In the days when there was
a 6-month wait for the Prius, I've helped many people do just that!

Ike

Re: I think my Honda dealer lied about my Fit
 

We had a similar situation in Oct03 when the new Prius came out. Buyers
were stacked around every dealership, and the "dealer added markup"
number just grew and grew. My local dealer finally made it a sort of
auction, in which money talked, not deposit date. In late '03, some
green-conscious buyers saw the desired color and features arriving and
paid up to an incredible + $7,000. In '04 the wait list grew to 6-8 months!

The dealers simply said "supply and demand", and they're right unless
there's a "real" contract in place, with consideration and specific
terms. If there's a contract that says "THIS AGREEMENT GUARANTEES YOUR
OPTION TO PURCHASE THE NEXT FIT SPORT AUTOTRANS IN COLOR XXXX TO ARRIVE
AT THIS DEALERSHIP, PURCHASE PRICE TO BE MSRP PLUS ADDED DEALER MARKUP
OF $YYYY, SUCH OPTION TO BE EXECUTED WITHIN 24 HOURS OF NOTICE OF
VEHICLE ARRIVAL", or somesuch, the "deposit" may guarantee nothing more
than to be placed on an auction list.

In late '03 we let our fingers do the walking, and bought precisely the
Prius we wanted for MSRP (pinstriping, a few other things, at no added
cost!) at a dealership in a rural community 1500 miles away (suspicious
of that lektrik stuff), then paid $800 to have it transported. For two
years I could have sold it for the price we paid!

In August my daughter bought her FIT and got precisely what she wanted.
It took an hour of phone calls to find a dealer less than two hours'
drive - selling at MSRP, and with a free IPOD hookup. She had worked
hard and saved, so paid cash for her first new car. What a day!! We made
it a family outing, and I rode back in her car part of the way. At her
age I don't get that much quality time - and her joy was boundless. A
super ride, a terrific car, and at the end of the day there was none of
that feeling that we were taken advantage of.

TACTIC ON HIGH-DEMAND CARS: there's a salesman (forget the dealership!)
willing to work with you, somewhere. Call/visit many dealerships. When
you call a dealership, talk turkey to a salesman directly and do NOT get
put on a dealership list. Offer the salesman a quiet extra $100. That
salesman is interested in a commission, and may put your name in his/her
hip pocket in case another buyer falls through. Otherwise, that sale
might go to some other salesman's buyer who's "on the list". You could
become the original buyer's "brother-in-law". In the days when there was
a 6-month wait for the Prius, I've helped many people do just that!

Ike

Re: I think my Honda dealer lied about my Fit
 

We had a similar situation in Oct03 when the new Prius came out. Buyers
were stacked around every dealership, and the "dealer added markup"
number just grew and grew. My local dealer finally made it a sort of
auction, in which money talked, not deposit date. In late '03, some
green-conscious buyers saw the desired color and features arriving and
paid up to an incredible + $7,000. In '04 the wait list grew to 6-8 months!

The dealers simply said "supply and demand", and they're right unless
there's a "real" contract in place, with consideration and specific
terms. If there's a contract that says "THIS AGREEMENT GUARANTEES YOUR
OPTION TO PURCHASE THE NEXT FIT SPORT AUTOTRANS IN COLOR XXXX TO ARRIVE
AT THIS DEALERSHIP, PURCHASE PRICE TO BE MSRP PLUS ADDED DEALER MARKUP
OF $YYYY, SUCH OPTION TO BE EXECUTED WITHIN 24 HOURS OF NOTICE OF
VEHICLE ARRIVAL", or somesuch, the "deposit" may guarantee nothing more
than to be placed on an auction list.

In late '03 we let our fingers do the walking, and bought precisely the
Prius we wanted for MSRP (pinstriping, a few other things, at no added
cost!) at a dealership in a rural community 1500 miles away (suspicious
of that lektrik stuff), then paid $800 to have it transported. For two
years I could have sold it for the price we paid!

In August my daughter bought her FIT and got precisely what she wanted.
It took an hour of phone calls to find a dealer less than two hours'
drive - selling at MSRP, and with a free IPOD hookup. She had worked
hard and saved, so paid cash for her first new car. What a day!! We made
it a family outing, and I rode back in her car part of the way. At her
age I don't get that much quality time - and her joy was boundless. A
super ride, a terrific car, and at the end of the day there was none of
that feeling that we were taken advantage of.

TACTIC ON HIGH-DEMAND CARS: there's a salesman (forget the dealership!)
willing to work with you, somewhere. Call/visit many dealerships. When
you call a dealership, talk turkey to a salesman directly and do NOT get
put on a dealership list. Offer the salesman a quiet extra $100. That
salesman is interested in a commission, and may put your name in his/her
hip pocket in case another buyer falls through. Otherwise, that sale
might go to some other salesman's buyer who's "on the list". You could
become the original buyer's "brother-in-law". In the days when there was
a 6-month wait for the Prius, I've helped many people do just that!

Ike

Re: I think my Honda dealer lied about my Fit
 

In article <t6RTg.6555$TV3.699@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
Unquestionably Confused <puzzled2@ameritech.net> wrote:

> Key phrase here is "before your time." When you contract to make a
> purchase and the dealer to make a sale, it changes things. He paid his
> money down, ordered "his" car and, when it arrived, the dealer
> apparently turned around and sold it off to the highest and best bidder.
> THAT is a problem.
>
> If the dealership wants to maximize their profit, I have no problem with
> that however the time to set the price is when the contract is signed.
> If they didn't want to sell it for that price, they should not have
> entered into the contract with the guy. Simply tell him: "You want the
> FIT? It'll cost you $xx,xxxx."

If the contract doesn't specify a delivery date, then there's no problem
with what the dealer did.

The dealer is merely taking advantage of the fact that there's no
delivery date specified.

The dealer can deliver on the dealer's time schedule--which maximizes
the dealer's profit.

Shame on the buyer for not specifying a delivery timeframe in the
contract itself.

Re: I think my Honda dealer lied about my Fit
 

In article <t6RTg.6555$TV3.699@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
Unquestionably Confused <puzzled2@ameritech.net> wrote:

> Key phrase here is "before your time." When you contract to make a
> purchase and the dealer to make a sale, it changes things. He paid his
> money down, ordered "his" car and, when it arrived, the dealer
> apparently turned around and sold it off to the highest and best bidder.
> THAT is a problem.
>
> If the dealership wants to maximize their profit, I have no problem with
> that however the time to set the price is when the contract is signed.
> If they didn't want to sell it for that price, they should not have
> entered into the contract with the guy. Simply tell him: "You want the
> FIT? It'll cost you $xx,xxxx."

If the contract doesn't specify a delivery date, then there's no problem
with what the dealer did.

The dealer is merely taking advantage of the fact that there's no
delivery date specified.

The dealer can deliver on the dealer's time schedule--which maximizes
the dealer's profit.

Shame on the buyer for not specifying a delivery timeframe in the
contract itself.

Re: I think my Honda dealer lied about my Fit
 

In article <t6RTg.6555$TV3.699@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
Unquestionably Confused <puzzled2@ameritech.net> wrote:

> Key phrase here is "before your time." When you contract to make a
> purchase and the dealer to make a sale, it changes things. He paid his
> money down, ordered "his" car and, when it arrived, the dealer
> apparently turned around and sold it off to the highest and best bidder.
> THAT is a problem.
>
> If the dealership wants to maximize their profit, I have no problem with
> that however the time to set the price is when the contract is signed.
> If they didn't want to sell it for that price, they should not have
> entered into the contract with the guy. Simply tell him: "You want the
> FIT? It'll cost you $xx,xxxx."

If the contract doesn't specify a delivery date, then there's no problem
with what the dealer did.

The dealer is merely taking advantage of the fact that there's no
delivery date specified.

The dealer can deliver on the dealer's time schedule--which maximizes
the dealer's profit.

Shame on the buyer for not specifying a delivery timeframe in the
contract itself.

Re: I think my Honda dealer lied about my Fit
 

In article <ZzRTg.9874$xg7.7582@tornado.socal.rr.com>,
Ike <binarydotike@gmail.com> wrote:

> TACTIC ON HIGH-DEMAND CARS: there's a salesman (forget the dealership!)
> willing to work with you, somewhere. Call/visit many dealerships. When
> you call a dealership, talk turkey to a salesman directly and do NOT get
> put on a dealership list. Offer the salesman a quiet extra $100. That
> salesman is interested in a commission, and may put your name in his/her
> hip pocket in case another buyer falls through.

Or, in case that salesman wins a contest like what Honda had a few years
ago when Odysseys were ultra-hot: the winner gets an extra allocation,
completely outside the dealership allocation, to be used as he sees fit
for his customers.

Re: I think my Honda dealer lied about my Fit
 

In article <ZzRTg.9874$xg7.7582@tornado.socal.rr.com>,
Ike <binarydotike@gmail.com> wrote:

> TACTIC ON HIGH-DEMAND CARS: there's a salesman (forget the dealership!)
> willing to work with you, somewhere. Call/visit many dealerships. When
> you call a dealership, talk turkey to a salesman directly and do NOT get
> put on a dealership list. Offer the salesman a quiet extra $100. That
> salesman is interested in a commission, and may put your name in his/her
> hip pocket in case another buyer falls through.

Or, in case that salesman wins a contest like what Honda had a few years
ago when Odysseys were ultra-hot: the winner gets an extra allocation,
completely outside the dealership allocation, to be used as he sees fit
for his customers.

Re: I think my Honda dealer lied about my Fit
 

In article <ZzRTg.9874$xg7.7582@tornado.socal.rr.com>,
Ike <binarydotike@gmail.com> wrote:

> TACTIC ON HIGH-DEMAND CARS: there's a salesman (forget the dealership!)
> willing to work with you, somewhere. Call/visit many dealerships. When
> you call a dealership, talk turkey to a salesman directly and do NOT get
> put on a dealership list. Offer the salesman a quiet extra $100. That
> salesman is interested in a commission, and may put your name in his/her
> hip pocket in case another buyer falls through.

Or, in case that salesman wins a contest like what Honda had a few years
ago when Odysseys were ultra-hot: the winner gets an extra allocation,
completely outside the dealership allocation, to be used as he sees fit
for his customers.

Re: I think my Honda dealer lied about my Fit
 

On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 12:54:46 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <t6RTg.6555$TV3.699@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
> Unquestionably Confused <puzzled2@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>> Key phrase here is "before your time." When you contract to make a
>> purchase and the dealer to make a sale, it changes things. He paid his
>> money down, ordered "his" car and, when it arrived, the dealer
>> apparently turned around and sold it off to the highest and best bidder.
>> THAT is a problem.
>>
>> If the dealership wants to maximize their profit, I have no problem with
>> that however the time to set the price is when the contract is signed.
>> If they didn't want to sell it for that price, they should not have
>> entered into the contract with the guy. Simply tell him: "You want the
>> FIT? It'll cost you $xx,xxxx."
>
>If the contract doesn't specify a delivery date, then there's no problem
>with what the dealer did.
>
>The dealer is merely taking advantage of the fact that there's no
>delivery date specified.
>
>The dealer can deliver on the dealer's time schedule--which maximizes
>the dealer's profit.
>
>Shame on the buyer for not specifying a delivery timeframe in the
>contract itself.

Means nothing if there's no penalty. So the delivery date passes. Now
what? I get my deposit back.

Re: I think my Honda dealer lied about my Fit
 

On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 12:54:46 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <t6RTg.6555$TV3.699@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
> Unquestionably Confused <puzzled2@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>> Key phrase here is "before your time." When you contract to make a
>> purchase and the dealer to make a sale, it changes things. He paid his
>> money down, ordered "his" car and, when it arrived, the dealer
>> apparently turned around and sold it off to the highest and best bidder.
>> THAT is a problem.
>>
>> If the dealership wants to maximize their profit, I have no problem with
>> that however the time to set the price is when the contract is signed.
>> If they didn't want to sell it for that price, they should not have
>> entered into the contract with the guy. Simply tell him: "You want the
>> FIT? It'll cost you $xx,xxxx."
>
>If the contract doesn't specify a delivery date, then there's no problem
>with what the dealer did.
>
>The dealer is merely taking advantage of the fact that there's no
>delivery date specified.
>
>The dealer can deliver on the dealer's time schedule--which maximizes
>the dealer's profit.
>
>Shame on the buyer for not specifying a delivery timeframe in the
>contract itself.

Means nothing if there's no penalty. So the delivery date passes. Now
what? I get my deposit back.

Re: I think my Honda dealer lied about my Fit
 

On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 12:54:46 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <t6RTg.6555$TV3.699@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
> Unquestionably Confused <puzzled2@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>> Key phrase here is "before your time." When you contract to make a
>> purchase and the dealer to make a sale, it changes things. He paid his
>> money down, ordered "his" car and, when it arrived, the dealer
>> apparently turned around and sold it off to the highest and best bidder.
>> THAT is a problem.
>>
>> If the dealership wants to maximize their profit, I have no problem with
>> that however the time to set the price is when the contract is signed.
>> If they didn't want to sell it for that price, they should not have
>> entered into the contract with the guy. Simply tell him: "You want the
>> FIT? It'll cost you $xx,xxxx."
>
>If the contract doesn't specify a delivery date, then there's no problem
>with what the dealer did.
>
>The dealer is merely taking advantage of the fact that there's no
>delivery date specified.
>
>The dealer can deliver on the dealer's time schedule--which maximizes
>the dealer's profit.
>
>Shame on the buyer for not specifying a delivery timeframe in the
>contract itself.

Means nothing if there's no penalty. So the delivery date passes. Now
what? I get my deposit back.

Re: I think my Honda dealer lied about my Fit
 

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 23:15:52 -0400, "Dave L"
<davelieuREMOVEME@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>"dgk" <sonice@zero-spam-hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:qcbuh2pk751ifrkr0jd1k4srnfk6a80r20@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 01:27:59 GMT, Bob <anyhow@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>> I figured that I would explain what happened and see what other people
>> had to say; hopefully someone else buying a Fit. My experience with
>> car dealers is virtually nil since I tend to buy used cars. I'm not
>> sure what OTHER perspective there might be; I ordered a car and put
>> down a deposit, the car was never delivered. And I suspected from the
>> start that it wouldn't be.
>>
>> I spoke to the general manager of the dealership; he apologized for
>> failing to get the car, and my credit card has been credited for the
>> deposit.
>
>When you spoke to Honda, did you let them know the dealershp took your
>deposit? Curious if they ever followed up with the dealership to find out
>why they never ordered one for you.
>

I did mention that. But apparently ordering cars is not done very
often with Honda. They just look around for what comes in.

>> I spent today at the junkyards in Willets Point, next to Shea Stadium,
>> having a number of issues attended to on my old Accord. I still have a
>> few, notably some sort of water leak in one of the tail lights, but
>> except for that and maybe upgrading the radio, I've taken care of the
>> outstanding problems.
>
>For the tail lights, did you check/change the seals/gaskets around the tail
>lights?
>

I'm reasonably sure that's the problem. I'm going to work on it this
week.

>> I think the next time I post to the newgroup it will be to ask
>> questions about how to fix something on a 91 Accord. It looks like
>> I'll be keeping it for a while longer. And I really do like the car.
>
>At least no car payments to worry about.
>

I had planned on paying cash. I don't think they really like that; I
think they like the financing system.

Re: I think my Honda dealer lied about my Fit
 

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 23:15:52 -0400, "Dave L"
<davelieuREMOVEME@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>"dgk" <sonice@zero-spam-hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:qcbuh2pk751ifrkr0jd1k4srnfk6a80r20@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 01:27:59 GMT, Bob <anyhow@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>> I figured that I would explain what happened and see what other people
>> had to say; hopefully someone else buying a Fit. My experience with
>> car dealers is virtually nil since I tend to buy used cars. I'm not
>> sure what OTHER perspective there might be; I ordered a car and put
>> down a deposit, the car was never delivered. And I suspected from the
>> start that it wouldn't be.
>>
>> I spoke to the general manager of the dealership; he apologized for
>> failing to get the car, and my credit card has been credited for the
>> deposit.
>
>When you spoke to Honda, did you let them know the dealershp took your
>deposit? Curious if they ever followed up with the dealership to find out
>why they never ordered one for you.
>

I did mention that. But apparently ordering cars is not done very
often with Honda. They just look around for what comes in.

>> I spent today at the junkyards in Willets Point, next to Shea Stadium,
>> having a number of issues attended to on my old Accord. I still have a
>> few, notably some sort of water leak in one of the tail lights, but
>> except for that and maybe upgrading the radio, I've taken care of the
>> outstanding problems.
>
>For the tail lights, did you check/change the seals/gaskets around the tail
>lights?
>

I'm reasonably sure that's the problem. I'm going to work on it this
week.

>> I think the next time I post to the newgroup it will be to ask
>> questions about how to fix something on a 91 Accord. It looks like
>> I'll be keeping it for a while longer. And I really do like the car.
>
>At least no car payments to worry about.
>

I had planned on paying cash. I don't think they really like that; I
think they like the financing system.