John D.

No, I wouldn't be flaming you...what you say makes a lot of
sense...except for kids and computers.

Sure, lots of kids USE computers -- anyone can do that so it's no big
deal -- but it's mostly for games and other insignifcant kid stuff; I
haven't seen any that can go any deeper and fix one software/hardware
wise! Or build them even though that's simple to do. They just USE
them, that's all. Sure, there are kids that DO the deeper stuff, but I
sure don't run into them around this town and schools, so as general
rule, they don't know much at all.

So I'm not impressed with kids and computers, or when adults say their
kids are "computer whizes"...sure they are. It's mostly just ignorant
parents talking because THEY don't know anything, ANYone who does
seems like a whiz. Besides, I "do" computers myself and kids find out
they can't put stuff over on me as they can their parents...or
teachers for that matter, even teachers in Computer Literacy classes
(I sometimes substitute in the public zoos, I mean schools).

As for kids not working on cars much anymore, well, they'd better get
a pretty good job so they can pay someone ELSE to work on them...but
even then, their ignorance re: cars will cost them, too, when the shop
finds out how little the guys know.

Anyway, as for the VW, I had several of them in my life, the last two
were 1964 and 1966 Buses...wish I still had them. Yes, easy to work on
-- except I didn't like the generator, too many problems with them --
and find parts for.

Nowadays, and maybe even for the rest of my life, I suppose if I had
another VW I could continue to find parts and keep it running, but I
would need to be sure ANY old car I got could still get parts...for
sure...because when you can't get parts, it's pretty much all over.

There's a lot to be said for getting an old "classic" car from the
1960s and early 1970s -- as long as it is a model that still has parts
available at reasonable cost and supply -- no emissions tests to worry
about, easy to work on, and no damn sensors or ECUs. And even a
classic in GREAT condition can cost less than a new econobox nowadays.

In short, considering an older can instead of a new one has a lot
going for it.

John D.




expensive <common_sense@emodgnik.com> wrote in message news:<020820031500441196%common_sense@emodgnik.com >...
> In article <e821bab6.0308021113.6c8fa0ff@posting.google.com >, John D.
> <jcdech@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> VWs... off-road buggies...
>
> > Not as many as there used to be, and getting less and less every day.
> > Hardly ever in the newspapers around here -- with LOTS of desert in
> > West Texas where lots of VW dune buggies USED to be -- do you ever see
> > a dunebuggy with a VW engine listed much anymore. Parts aren't as
> > readily available as they used to be, either.
> >
> > From all that I have to conclude that the old air-cooled VW engine's
> > use has been in decline for a long time now...unfortunately.
>
> A bit off topic, but worth discussing, IMHO (okay, so it ain't humble).
>
> Yes, the venerable air-cooled VW bug has been in decline for many
> years. What is happening is the car (and the buses, and the buggies)
> are declining in numbers from popular numbers to what might be called a
> functional level of support or interest. This functional level of
> support is that at which the collectors are happy.
>
> I would say that the seeds of decline began with the attempts by VW to
> add smog equipment in the late 1960's, and new models in the 1970's
> aimed at making them faster for our freeways (Super Beetle, a new
> station-wagon-like bus).
>
> The popularity of the beetle in the 1950's was a function of ex-GI's
> who remembered the Kubelwagen, many of which were captured and used by
> the Allies. In the 1960's, it became a counter-culture vehicle, not in
> small part because it was easy to work on. And many of these vehicles
> survived because of this base of amateur mechanics, racing, and the
> proliferation of small businesses based on the car and engine.
>
> By the mid 1980's, however, these shops were disappearing and the new
> crop of kids really had, and have still, little interest in getting
> their hands dirty working on old Vee Dubs. In the 1980's and 90's
> automobiles in general began to require specialized knowledge and tools
> to work on, so there were fewer amateur mechanics across the board.
> Kids turned their attention to other things like computers. I would
> say that, to the younger generation, computers is the auto mechanics of
> today.
>
> So the VW's of old will continue to disappear until there are only
> collector cars. Then the "trade" will stabilize, I believe at an
> amazing number compared with other collector cars. More than the
> mid-50's Chevrolets, more than the late-70's Mustangs and other muscle
> cars, more than all of them combined. This will keep many
> manufacturers and suppliers going for many, many years.
>
> The basic VW shop is dead, at least beyond California. I have a friend
> who has one along with a little wrecking yard and parts store for
> air-cooled VW's, and it is only his mail order business and custom
> engines that's keeping him alive. He hasn't taken in a wrecked or
> disused old-style ('67 and earlier) for two years now. And the
> subsequent model introduced in 1968 rarely comes in wrecked or disused.
>
> Just offhand, I would say that the sleeper collector car of a decade
> from now will be the 1967 bus and pickup. They were the last year of
> the body style and the first year of 12 volts. And there are scads of
> parts for these old buses still available. When the Japanese come out
> of the depression and begin buying cars again, they will want the cars
> of the 1960's just as they bid up the prices of cars from the 1950's.
> I believe that the big demand will be for muscle cars and for the
> counter-cultural icon of the 1960's, the bug and especially the bus.
>
> Okay, just my opinion, okay. Your mileage may vary. I certainly won't
> go to the mat to defend any of this, so please don't excoriate me for
> it. If you have an opinion on it, then please present it as... "I
> think this is what will happen," and not "You're wrong you blithering
> idiot." After all, we're talking about the future and I don't have any
> better crystal ball than you.
>
> Thank you.

John D.

No, I wouldn't be flaming you...what you say makes a lot of
sense...except for kids and computers.

Sure, lots of kids USE computers -- anyone can do that so it's no big
deal -- but it's mostly for games and other insignifcant kid stuff; I
haven't seen any that can go any deeper and fix one software/hardware
wise! Or build them even though that's simple to do. They just USE
them, that's all. Sure, there are kids that DO the deeper stuff, but I
sure don't run into them around this town and schools, so as general
rule, they don't know much at all.

So I'm not impressed with kids and computers, or when adults say their
kids are "computer whizes"...sure they are. It's mostly just ignorant
parents talking because THEY don't know anything, ANYone who does
seems like a whiz. Besides, I "do" computers myself and kids find out
they can't put stuff over on me as they can their parents...or
teachers for that matter, even teachers in Computer Literacy classes
(I sometimes substitute in the public zoos, I mean schools).

As for kids not working on cars much anymore, well, they'd better get
a pretty good job so they can pay someone ELSE to work on them...but
even then, their ignorance re: cars will cost them, too, when the shop
finds out how little the guys know.

Anyway, as for the VW, I had several of them in my life, the last two
were 1964 and 1966 Buses...wish I still had them. Yes, easy to work on
-- except I didn't like the generator, too many problems with them --
and find parts for.

Nowadays, and maybe even for the rest of my life, I suppose if I had
another VW I could continue to find parts and keep it running, but I
would need to be sure ANY old car I got could still get parts...for
sure...because when you can't get parts, it's pretty much all over.

There's a lot to be said for getting an old "classic" car from the
1960s and early 1970s -- as long as it is a model that still has parts
available at reasonable cost and supply -- no emissions tests to worry
about, easy to work on, and no damn sensors or ECUs. And even a
classic in GREAT condition can cost less than a new econobox nowadays.

In short, considering an older can instead of a new one has a lot
going for it.

John D.




expensive <common_sense@emodgnik.com> wrote in message news:<020820031500441196%common_sense@emodgnik.com >...
> In article <e821bab6.0308021113.6c8fa0ff@posting.google.com >, John D.
> <jcdech@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> VWs... off-road buggies...
>
> > Not as many as there used to be, and getting less and less every day.
> > Hardly ever in the newspapers around here -- with LOTS of desert in
> > West Texas where lots of VW dune buggies USED to be -- do you ever see
> > a dunebuggy with a VW engine listed much anymore. Parts aren't as
> > readily available as they used to be, either.
> >
> > From all that I have to conclude that the old air-cooled VW engine's
> > use has been in decline for a long time now...unfortunately.
>
> A bit off topic, but worth discussing, IMHO (okay, so it ain't humble).
>
> Yes, the venerable air-cooled VW bug has been in decline for many
> years. What is happening is the car (and the buses, and the buggies)
> are declining in numbers from popular numbers to what might be called a
> functional level of support or interest. This functional level of
> support is that at which the collectors are happy.
>
> I would say that the seeds of decline began with the attempts by VW to
> add smog equipment in the late 1960's, and new models in the 1970's
> aimed at making them faster for our freeways (Super Beetle, a new
> station-wagon-like bus).
>
> The popularity of the beetle in the 1950's was a function of ex-GI's
> who remembered the Kubelwagen, many of which were captured and used by
> the Allies. In the 1960's, it became a counter-culture vehicle, not in
> small part because it was easy to work on. And many of these vehicles
> survived because of this base of amateur mechanics, racing, and the
> proliferation of small businesses based on the car and engine.
>
> By the mid 1980's, however, these shops were disappearing and the new
> crop of kids really had, and have still, little interest in getting
> their hands dirty working on old Vee Dubs. In the 1980's and 90's
> automobiles in general began to require specialized knowledge and tools
> to work on, so there were fewer amateur mechanics across the board.
> Kids turned their attention to other things like computers. I would
> say that, to the younger generation, computers is the auto mechanics of
> today.
>
> So the VW's of old will continue to disappear until there are only
> collector cars. Then the "trade" will stabilize, I believe at an
> amazing number compared with other collector cars. More than the
> mid-50's Chevrolets, more than the late-70's Mustangs and other muscle
> cars, more than all of them combined. This will keep many
> manufacturers and suppliers going for many, many years.
>
> The basic VW shop is dead, at least beyond California. I have a friend
> who has one along with a little wrecking yard and parts store for
> air-cooled VW's, and it is only his mail order business and custom
> engines that's keeping him alive. He hasn't taken in a wrecked or
> disused old-style ('67 and earlier) for two years now. And the
> subsequent model introduced in 1968 rarely comes in wrecked or disused.
>
> Just offhand, I would say that the sleeper collector car of a decade
> from now will be the 1967 bus and pickup. They were the last year of
> the body style and the first year of 12 volts. And there are scads of
> parts for these old buses still available. When the Japanese come out
> of the depression and begin buying cars again, they will want the cars
> of the 1960's just as they bid up the prices of cars from the 1950's.
> I believe that the big demand will be for muscle cars and for the
> counter-cultural icon of the 1960's, the bug and especially the bus.
>
> Okay, just my opinion, okay. Your mileage may vary. I certainly won't
> go to the mat to defend any of this, so please don't excoriate me for
> it. If you have an opinion on it, then please present it as... "I
> think this is what will happen," and not "You're wrong you blithering
> idiot." After all, we're talking about the future and I don't have any
> better crystal ball than you.
>
> Thank you.

Jim Yanik

jcdech@hotmail.com (John D.) wrote in
news:e821bab6.0308031919.7ce22f54@posting.google.c om:



> Nowadays, and maybe even for the rest of my life, I suppose if I had
> another VW I could continue to find parts and keep it running, but I
> would need to be sure ANY old car I got could still get parts...for
> sure...because when you can't get parts, it's pretty much all over.

Jay Leno prefers the older cars because when you can't get parts for
them,you can MAKE new parts for them,if you really want to,and can afford
it.But who can make a new ECU for a car with EFI,or new injectors,for that
matter?

--
Jim Yanik,NRA member
remove null to contact me

Jim Yanik

jcdech@hotmail.com (John D.) wrote in
news:e821bab6.0308031919.7ce22f54@posting.google.c om:



> Nowadays, and maybe even for the rest of my life, I suppose if I had
> another VW I could continue to find parts and keep it running, but I
> would need to be sure ANY old car I got could still get parts...for
> sure...because when you can't get parts, it's pretty much all over.

Jay Leno prefers the older cars because when you can't get parts for
them,you can MAKE new parts for them,if you really want to,and can afford
it.But who can make a new ECU for a car with EFI,or new injectors,for that
matter?

--
Jim Yanik,NRA member
remove null to contact me

expensive

In article <Xns93CD7C4D54149jyanikkuanet@204.117.192.21>, Jim Yanik
<jyanik@nullkua.net> wrote:

> jcdech@hotmail.com (John D.) wrote in
> news:e821bab6.0308031919.7ce22f54@posting.google.c om:
>
> > Nowadays, and maybe even for the rest of my life, I suppose if I had
> > another VW I could continue to find parts and keep it running, but I
> > would need to be sure ANY old car I got could still get parts...for
> > sure...because when you can't get parts, it's pretty much all over.
>
> Jay Leno prefers the older cars because when you can't get parts for
> them,you can MAKE new parts for them,if you really want to,and can afford
> it.But who can make a new ECU for a car with EFI,or new injectors,for that
> matter?

Leno has some fabulous cars. The 427 AC Cobra is extra nice. How many
Hondas does he own?

I wonder how many cars of today will survive to be the classics of
tomorrow? When I get my next car, I think I'll put away my rusty (and
sometimes untrusty) '81 Honda for future collectors. Instead of $193,
an ignitor should cost $193,000,000 by then at the Honda parts counter.
And only 25% of that will be due to the inflation of the currency.

expensive

In article <Xns93CD7C4D54149jyanikkuanet@204.117.192.21>, Jim Yanik
<jyanik@nullkua.net> wrote:

> jcdech@hotmail.com (John D.) wrote in
> news:e821bab6.0308031919.7ce22f54@posting.google.c om:
>
> > Nowadays, and maybe even for the rest of my life, I suppose if I had
> > another VW I could continue to find parts and keep it running, but I
> > would need to be sure ANY old car I got could still get parts...for
> > sure...because when you can't get parts, it's pretty much all over.
>
> Jay Leno prefers the older cars because when you can't get parts for
> them,you can MAKE new parts for them,if you really want to,and can afford
> it.But who can make a new ECU for a car with EFI,or new injectors,for that
> matter?

Leno has some fabulous cars. The 427 AC Cobra is extra nice. How many
Hondas does he own?

I wonder how many cars of today will survive to be the classics of
tomorrow? When I get my next car, I think I'll put away my rusty (and
sometimes untrusty) '81 Honda for future collectors. Instead of $193,
an ignitor should cost $193,000,000 by then at the Honda parts counter.
And only 25% of that will be due to the inflation of the currency.

TL

I have a '95 Camry LE four door which I believe is the same body
style. Now the 2 door is the Solara. I think then it was just the two
door.

I think they changed in '97. If so, it's a great car. Mine has 125,000
miles and runs like it did when I purchased it in 95.

Unless it is the DX, $4,500 is actually a pretty decent price. Edmunds
lists the trade-in for the 2D LE as $4,500 and private party sale as
$5,400. The DX is $4,200 and $5,000 respectively.

Of course, $4,000 is even better : - )



On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:51:03 GMT, expensive
<common_sense@emodgnik.com> wrote:

>
>I'm looking now at a '96 Camry 2-door air low miles really a pretty car
>meticulously maintained by the dealer owned by a little old lady who
>has two Camrys on her hands because her husband just died. She's
>asking $4,500. Maybe I'll offer her $4,000 and see if she goes for it.
>I know her son and he brought this car to my attention. I need cash.
>I know, I could take up a collection here in the group. :-)
>

TL

I have a '95 Camry LE four door which I believe is the same body
style. Now the 2 door is the Solara. I think then it was just the two
door.

I think they changed in '97. If so, it's a great car. Mine has 125,000
miles and runs like it did when I purchased it in 95.

Unless it is the DX, $4,500 is actually a pretty decent price. Edmunds
lists the trade-in for the 2D LE as $4,500 and private party sale as
$5,400. The DX is $4,200 and $5,000 respectively.

Of course, $4,000 is even better : - )



On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:51:03 GMT, expensive
<common_sense@emodgnik.com> wrote:

>
>I'm looking now at a '96 Camry 2-door air low miles really a pretty car
>meticulously maintained by the dealer owned by a little old lady who
>has two Camrys on her hands because her husband just died. She's
>asking $4,500. Maybe I'll offer her $4,000 and see if she goes for it.
>I know her son and he brought this car to my attention. I need cash.
>I know, I could take up a collection here in the group. :-)
>

expensive

I remember how nice this car was, but I obviously don't know as much
about it as I might. I'm happy you like the one you have and it makes
me more anxious than ever to try to raise the cash for it. Thanks.

> I have a '95 Camry LE four door which I believe is the same body
> style. Now the 2 door is the Solara. I think then it was just the two
> door.
>
> I think they changed in '97. If so, it's a great car. Mine has 125,000
> miles and runs like it did when I purchased it in 95.
>
> Unless it is the DX, $4,500 is actually a pretty decent price. Edmunds
> lists the trade-in for the 2D LE as $4,500 and private party sale as
> $5,400. The DX is $4,200 and $5,000 respectively.
>
> Of course, $4,000 is even better : - )
>
>
>
> On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:51:03 GMT, expensive
> <common_sense@emodgnik.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >I'm looking now at a '96 Camry 2-door air low miles really a pretty car
> >meticulously maintained by the dealer owned by a little old lady who
> >has two Camrys on her hands because her husband just died. She's
> >asking $4,500. Maybe I'll offer her $4,000 and see if she goes for it.
> >I know her son and he brought this car to my attention. I need cash.
> >I know, I could take up a collection here in the group. :-)
> >

expensive

I remember how nice this car was, but I obviously don't know as much
about it as I might. I'm happy you like the one you have and it makes
me more anxious than ever to try to raise the cash for it. Thanks.

> I have a '95 Camry LE four door which I believe is the same body
> style. Now the 2 door is the Solara. I think then it was just the two
> door.
>
> I think they changed in '97. If so, it's a great car. Mine has 125,000
> miles and runs like it did when I purchased it in 95.
>
> Unless it is the DX, $4,500 is actually a pretty decent price. Edmunds
> lists the trade-in for the 2D LE as $4,500 and private party sale as
> $5,400. The DX is $4,200 and $5,000 respectively.
>
> Of course, $4,000 is even better : - )
>
>
>
> On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:51:03 GMT, expensive
> <common_sense@emodgnik.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >I'm looking now at a '96 Camry 2-door air low miles really a pretty car
> >meticulously maintained by the dealer owned by a little old lady who
> >has two Camrys on her hands because her husband just died. She's
> >asking $4,500. Maybe I'll offer her $4,000 and see if she goes for it.
> >I know her son and he brought this car to my attention. I need cash.
> >I know, I could take up a collection here in the group. :-)
> >

Gus

John D. wrote:

(snip)

> There's a lot to be said for getting an old "classic" car from the
> 1960s and early 1970s -- as long as it is a model that still has parts
> available at reasonable cost and supply -- no emissions tests to worry
> about, easy to work on, and no damn sensors or ECUs. And even a
> classic in GREAT condition can cost less than a new econobox nowadays.

Note: emissions controls in the US started with the '68 models, so you
can't buy anything from the 70's without controls.

Gus

John D. wrote:

(snip)

> There's a lot to be said for getting an old "classic" car from the
> 1960s and early 1970s -- as long as it is a model that still has parts
> available at reasonable cost and supply -- no emissions tests to worry
> about, easy to work on, and no damn sensors or ECUs. And even a
> classic in GREAT condition can cost less than a new econobox nowadays.

Note: emissions controls in the US started with the '68 models, so you
can't buy anything from the 70's without controls.

John D.

Maybe where you are, but not here.

In fact, people in general -- let alone kids -- don't know anything of
any consequence whether it's academics, cars or computers. But they
CAN tell you what some airhead nobody "celebrity" said/did. Or the
words to some stupid commercial.

BFD.

Benchmarking? Who cares.

Sorry, but I'm not impressed.

John D.




"Carolina" <not@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:<LiWXa.274$2Y6.127933@news2.news.adelphia.net >...
> GEN NEXT is passing you by and you don't even know it. Most 'kids' in High
> School build their own 'machines' and soup them up like we did our cars back
> in the day. My kids college friends wouldn't be caught dead using a
> standard issue DELL, Gateway or HP machine unless it was as laptop. I have
> been using my kids custom built cast offs for years. Kids are into
> benchmarking with each other, tweaking their machines to get the most out of
> them. Once the system can't be upgraded to their satisfaction they sell
> them on E-Bay or to a rookie.
>
>
> "John D." <jcdech@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e821bab6.0308031919.7ce22f54@posting.google.c om...
> > No, I wouldn't be flaming you...what you say makes a lot of
> > sense...except for kids and computers.
> >
> > Sure, lots of kids USE computers -- anyone can do that so it's no big
> > deal -- but it's mostly for games and other insignifcant kid stuff; I
> > haven't seen any that can go any deeper and fix one software/hardware
> > wise! Or build them even though that's simple to do. They just USE
> > them, that's all. Sure, there are kids that DO the deeper stuff, but I
> > sure don't run into them around this town and schools, so as general
> > rule, they don't know much at all.
> >
> > So I'm not impressed with kids and computers, or when adults say their
> > kids are "computer whizes"...sure they are. It's mostly just ignorant
> > parents talking because THEY don't know anything, ANYone who does
> > seems like a whiz. Besides, I "do" computers myself and kids find out
> > they can't put stuff over on me as they can their parents...or
> > teachers for that matter, even teachers in Computer Literacy classes
> > (I sometimes substitute in the public zoos, I mean schools).
> >
> > As for kids not working on cars much anymore, well, they'd better get
> > a pretty good job so they can pay someone ELSE to work on them...but
> > even then, their ignorance re: cars will cost them, too, when the shop
> > finds out how little the guys know.
> >
> > Anyway, as for the VW, I had several of them in my life, the last two
> > were 1964 and 1966 Buses...wish I still had them. Yes, easy to work on
> > -- except I didn't like the generator, too many problems with them --
> > and find parts for.
> >
> > Nowadays, and maybe even for the rest of my life, I suppose if I had
> > another VW I could continue to find parts and keep it running, but I
> > would need to be sure ANY old car I got could still get parts...for
> > sure...because when you can't get parts, it's pretty much all over.
> >
> > There's a lot to be said for getting an old "classic" car from the
> > 1960s and early 1970s -- as long as it is a model that still has parts
> > available at reasonable cost and supply -- no emissions tests to worry
> > about, easy to work on, and no damn sensors or ECUs. And even a
> > classic in GREAT condition can cost less than a new econobox nowadays.
> >
> > In short, considering an older can instead of a new one has a lot
> > going for it.
> >
> > John D.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > expensive <common_sense@emodgnik.com> wrote in message
> news:<020820031500441196%common_sense@emodgnik.com >...
> > > In article <e821bab6.0308021113.6c8fa0ff@posting.google.com >, John D.
> > > <jcdech@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >> VWs... off-road buggies...
>
> > > > Not as many as there used to be, and getting less and less every day.
> > > > Hardly ever in the newspapers around here -- with LOTS of desert in
> > > > West Texas where lots of VW dune buggies USED to be -- do you ever see
> > > > a dunebuggy with a VW engine listed much anymore. Parts aren't as
> > > > readily available as they used to be, either.
> > > >
> > > > From all that I have to conclude that the old air-cooled VW engine's
> > > > use has been in decline for a long time now...unfortunately.
> > >
> > > A bit off topic, but worth discussing, IMHO (okay, so it ain't humble).
> > >
> > > Yes, the venerable air-cooled VW bug has been in decline for many
> > > years. What is happening is the car (and the buses, and the buggies)
> > > are declining in numbers from popular numbers to what might be called a
> > > functional level of support or interest. This functional level of
> > > support is that at which the collectors are happy.
> > >
> > > I would say that the seeds of decline began with the attempts by VW to
> > > add smog equipment in the late 1960's, and new models in the 1970's
> > > aimed at making them faster for our freeways (Super Beetle, a new
> > > station-wagon-like bus).
> > >
> > > The popularity of the beetle in the 1950's was a function of ex-GI's
> > > who remembered the Kubelwagen, many of which were captured and used by
> > > the Allies. In the 1960's, it became a counter-culture vehicle, not in
> > > small part because it was easy to work on. And many of these vehicles
> > > survived because of this base of amateur mechanics, racing, and the
> > > proliferation of small businesses based on the car and engine.
> > >
> > > By the mid 1980's, however, these shops were disappearing and the new
> > > crop of kids really had, and have still, little interest in getting
> > > their hands dirty working on old Vee Dubs. In the 1980's and 90's
> > > automobiles in general began to require specialized knowledge and tools
> > > to work on, so there were fewer amateur mechanics across the board.
> > > Kids turned their attention to other things like computers. I would
> > > say that, to the younger generation, computers is the auto mechanics of
> > > today.
> > >
> > > So the VW's of old will continue to disappear until there are only
> > > collector cars. Then the "trade" will stabilize, I believe at an
> > > amazing number compared with other collector cars. More than the
> > > mid-50's Chevrolets, more than the late-70's Mustangs and other muscle
> > > cars, more than all of them combined. This will keep many
> > > manufacturers and suppliers going for many, many years.
> > >
> > > The basic VW shop is dead, at least beyond California. I have a friend
> > > who has one along with a little wrecking yard and parts store for
> > > air-cooled VW's, and it is only his mail order business and custom
> > > engines that's keeping him alive. He hasn't taken in a wrecked or
> > > disused old-style ('67 and earlier) for two years now. And the
> > > subsequent model introduced in 1968 rarely comes in wrecked or disused.
> > >
> > > Just offhand, I would say that the sleeper collector car of a decade
> > > from now will be the 1967 bus and pickup. They were the last year of
> > > the body style and the first year of 12 volts. And there are scads of
> > > parts for these old buses still available. When the Japanese come out
> > > of the depression and begin buying cars again, they will want the cars
> > > of the 1960's just as they bid up the prices of cars from the 1950's.
> > > I believe that the big demand will be for muscle cars and for the
> > > counter-cultural icon of the 1960's, the bug and especially the bus.
> > >
> > > Okay, just my opinion, okay. Your mileage may vary. I certainly won't
> > > go to the mat to defend any of this, so please don't excoriate me for
> > > it. If you have an opinion on it, then please present it as... "I
> > > think this is what will happen," and not "You're wrong you blithering
> > > idiot." After all, we're talking about the future and I don't have any
> > > better crystal ball than you.
> > >
> > > Thank you.

John D.

Maybe where you are, but not here.

In fact, people in general -- let alone kids -- don't know anything of
any consequence whether it's academics, cars or computers. But they
CAN tell you what some airhead nobody "celebrity" said/did. Or the
words to some stupid commercial.

BFD.

Benchmarking? Who cares.

Sorry, but I'm not impressed.

John D.




"Carolina" <not@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:<LiWXa.274$2Y6.127933@news2.news.adelphia.net >...
> GEN NEXT is passing you by and you don't even know it. Most 'kids' in High
> School build their own 'machines' and soup them up like we did our cars back
> in the day. My kids college friends wouldn't be caught dead using a
> standard issue DELL, Gateway or HP machine unless it was as laptop. I have
> been using my kids custom built cast offs for years. Kids are into
> benchmarking with each other, tweaking their machines to get the most out of
> them. Once the system can't be upgraded to their satisfaction they sell
> them on E-Bay or to a rookie.
>
>
> "John D." <jcdech@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e821bab6.0308031919.7ce22f54@posting.google.c om...
> > No, I wouldn't be flaming you...what you say makes a lot of
> > sense...except for kids and computers.
> >
> > Sure, lots of kids USE computers -- anyone can do that so it's no big
> > deal -- but it's mostly for games and other insignifcant kid stuff; I
> > haven't seen any that can go any deeper and fix one software/hardware
> > wise! Or build them even though that's simple to do. They just USE
> > them, that's all. Sure, there are kids that DO the deeper stuff, but I
> > sure don't run into them around this town and schools, so as general
> > rule, they don't know much at all.
> >
> > So I'm not impressed with kids and computers, or when adults say their
> > kids are "computer whizes"...sure they are. It's mostly just ignorant
> > parents talking because THEY don't know anything, ANYone who does
> > seems like a whiz. Besides, I "do" computers myself and kids find out
> > they can't put stuff over on me as they can their parents...or
> > teachers for that matter, even teachers in Computer Literacy classes
> > (I sometimes substitute in the public zoos, I mean schools).
> >
> > As for kids not working on cars much anymore, well, they'd better get
> > a pretty good job so they can pay someone ELSE to work on them...but
> > even then, their ignorance re: cars will cost them, too, when the shop
> > finds out how little the guys know.
> >
> > Anyway, as for the VW, I had several of them in my life, the last two
> > were 1964 and 1966 Buses...wish I still had them. Yes, easy to work on
> > -- except I didn't like the generator, too many problems with them --
> > and find parts for.
> >
> > Nowadays, and maybe even for the rest of my life, I suppose if I had
> > another VW I could continue to find parts and keep it running, but I
> > would need to be sure ANY old car I got could still get parts...for
> > sure...because when you can't get parts, it's pretty much all over.
> >
> > There's a lot to be said for getting an old "classic" car from the
> > 1960s and early 1970s -- as long as it is a model that still has parts
> > available at reasonable cost and supply -- no emissions tests to worry
> > about, easy to work on, and no damn sensors or ECUs. And even a
> > classic in GREAT condition can cost less than a new econobox nowadays.
> >
> > In short, considering an older can instead of a new one has a lot
> > going for it.
> >
> > John D.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > expensive <common_sense@emodgnik.com> wrote in message
> news:<020820031500441196%common_sense@emodgnik.com >...
> > > In article <e821bab6.0308021113.6c8fa0ff@posting.google.com >, John D.
> > > <jcdech@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >> VWs... off-road buggies...
>
> > > > Not as many as there used to be, and getting less and less every day.
> > > > Hardly ever in the newspapers around here -- with LOTS of desert in
> > > > West Texas where lots of VW dune buggies USED to be -- do you ever see
> > > > a dunebuggy with a VW engine listed much anymore. Parts aren't as
> > > > readily available as they used to be, either.
> > > >
> > > > From all that I have to conclude that the old air-cooled VW engine's
> > > > use has been in decline for a long time now...unfortunately.
> > >
> > > A bit off topic, but worth discussing, IMHO (okay, so it ain't humble).
> > >
> > > Yes, the venerable air-cooled VW bug has been in decline for many
> > > years. What is happening is the car (and the buses, and the buggies)
> > > are declining in numbers from popular numbers to what might be called a
> > > functional level of support or interest. This functional level of
> > > support is that at which the collectors are happy.
> > >
> > > I would say that the seeds of decline began with the attempts by VW to
> > > add smog equipment in the late 1960's, and new models in the 1970's
> > > aimed at making them faster for our freeways (Super Beetle, a new
> > > station-wagon-like bus).
> > >
> > > The popularity of the beetle in the 1950's was a function of ex-GI's
> > > who remembered the Kubelwagen, many of which were captured and used by
> > > the Allies. In the 1960's, it became a counter-culture vehicle, not in
> > > small part because it was easy to work on. And many of these vehicles
> > > survived because of this base of amateur mechanics, racing, and the
> > > proliferation of small businesses based on the car and engine.
> > >
> > > By the mid 1980's, however, these shops were disappearing and the new
> > > crop of kids really had, and have still, little interest in getting
> > > their hands dirty working on old Vee Dubs. In the 1980's and 90's
> > > automobiles in general began to require specialized knowledge and tools
> > > to work on, so there were fewer amateur mechanics across the board.
> > > Kids turned their attention to other things like computers. I would
> > > say that, to the younger generation, computers is the auto mechanics of
> > > today.
> > >
> > > So the VW's of old will continue to disappear until there are only
> > > collector cars. Then the "trade" will stabilize, I believe at an
> > > amazing number compared with other collector cars. More than the
> > > mid-50's Chevrolets, more than the late-70's Mustangs and other muscle
> > > cars, more than all of them combined. This will keep many
> > > manufacturers and suppliers going for many, many years.
> > >
> > > The basic VW shop is dead, at least beyond California. I have a friend
> > > who has one along with a little wrecking yard and parts store for
> > > air-cooled VW's, and it is only his mail order business and custom
> > > engines that's keeping him alive. He hasn't taken in a wrecked or
> > > disused old-style ('67 and earlier) for two years now. And the
> > > subsequent model introduced in 1968 rarely comes in wrecked or disused.
> > >
> > > Just offhand, I would say that the sleeper collector car of a decade
> > > from now will be the 1967 bus and pickup. They were the last year of
> > > the body style and the first year of 12 volts. And there are scads of
> > > parts for these old buses still available. When the Japanese come out
> > > of the depression and begin buying cars again, they will want the cars
> > > of the 1960's just as they bid up the prices of cars from the 1950's.
> > > I believe that the big demand will be for muscle cars and for the
> > > counter-cultural icon of the 1960's, the bug and especially the bus.
> > >
> > > Okay, just my opinion, okay. Your mileage may vary. I certainly won't
> > > go to the mat to defend any of this, so please don't excoriate me for
> > > it. If you have an opinion on it, then please present it as... "I
> > > think this is what will happen," and not "You're wrong you blithering
> > > idiot." After all, we're talking about the future and I don't have any
> > > better crystal ball than you.
> > >
> > > Thank you.