Re: new Honda CR-V break in
 

On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 17:41:26 -0600, "Guy" <void@void.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 12:56:43 -0800, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>>On 01/02/2010 12:44 PM, Guy wrote:
>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 12:33:36 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 01/02/2010 12:18 PM, Guy wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:55:01 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 01/02/2010 11:40 AM, Guy wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:11:31 -0800, JRStern<JRStern@foobar.invalid>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:41:07 -0600, "Guy"<void@void.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I got a new 2010 CR-V and wife asked me how to break it in properly.
>>>>>>>>> What is the proper way?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't care what the manual says. What do you guys feel is the best
>>>>>>>>> mileage to do the first oil change? I normally change my oil and
>>>>>>>>> filter around 3500 miles on my other cars with no synthetic.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Follow the manual and the minder.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They say no restrictions on driving from day one, and you'll probably
>>>>>>>> go about a normal oil change distance, about 6k miles depending on
>>>>>>>> your driving habits, before the minder says hello.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's what Honda wants to honor the warranty, seems good to me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Engineering, materials, manufacturing are all really, really different
>>>>>>>> now than thirty years ago, I haven't heard anyone accusing the minder
>>>>>>>> of being too conservative about oil changes, maybe a little the other
>>>>>>>> way in fact, recommending changes a little sooner than really needed.
>>>>>>>> Plus, you might get paranoid when it says 15% left and change it then,
>>>>>>>> when you really can run it to zero, usually another 1,000 miles. Not
>>>>>>>> like the car grinds to a halt at that point!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> J.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks JR, I gotcha. That sounds reasonable. I do intend to read
>>>>>>> the manual
>>>>>>
>>>>>> you've been "intending" to read the manual for some time now guy.
>>>>>> contrasted with the time you've /actually/ spent here trying to justify
>>>>>> /not/ reading it of course. but we already know logic is not your strength.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe I can't read the manual because I stuck inside sick.
>>>>
>>>> so you're not here to learn anything - you're just here to "chat". i
>>>> should have realized.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> But I
>>>>> guess that doesn't compute in your disillusional mind. Go ahead and
>>>>> impress everyone else with your wisdom now !
>>>>
>>>> idiot.
>>>
>>> Impressive ...
>>
>>what would be impressive is you bothering to pay attention to this
>>http://www.faqs.org/faqs/killfile-faq/
>>
>>but that wouldn't be boredom-relieving "chat" - would it.
>
>
>Usually what I'm about to say uses the word "screws" but in your case
>considering your last name and your posts in this thread, there is no
>doubt to us normal people you are missing or have some loose bolts.

Actually you might be missing some nuts and bolts.... how appropriate
it fits the name and the type person at the same time.

Re: new Honda CR-V break in
 

On 01/02/2010 02:25 PM, Tegger wrote:
> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in news:Y5ednS-
> zJe1JPqLWnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@speakeasy.net:
>
>> On 01/02/2010 11:36 AM, Greg wrote:
>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> 1999 or not, that doesn't change the physics. think of it like this:
>>>> solid ice can rough you up pretty badly. water offers almost no
>>>> lubrication worth worrying about. but ice slurry, where the smaller
>>>> particles are free to slide among themselves, can be a fantastic
>>>> remover of friction.
>>>
>>> I think you need to re-think this one.
>>> A 'slurry' of metal particles is going to lubricate better than clean
>>> oil?? LOL!
>>
>> the majority of particulate matter in oil is combustion product, not
>> metal. if /you/ have a slurry of metal particles in your oil, you have
>> a problem.
>
>
>
>
> True, and much of that will be soot (about 1 micron in size).
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>> I don't think you understand how a hydrodynamic bearing works, nor do
>>> you appreciate how vanishingly thin the oil film is under load.
>>
>> you're contradicting yourself. hydrodynamic separation, by definition,
>> means there is sufficient thickness to keep the two solid surfaces
>> apart. if they're not separated, then it's not hydrodynamic.
>>
>
>
>
> The integrity of the thin part of the "oil wedge" is the key to lubricant
> effectiveness in protecting those hydrodynamic bearings.

mostly, yes.

for illustration, poke about here:
http://www.tribology-abc.com/sub11.htm


>
> The thin part of the wedge is thin indeed, and contaminant particles must
> be small enough that they are smaller than the wedge, otherwise abrasion
> will occur.
>
> Consider that crankshaft main-bearing-to-journal clearance is on the order
> of 25-50 microns. The thickness of the thin part of the wedge will be less
> than that. I've read that a common automotive oil filter efficiency is
> about 30 microns, so you haven't got much there before wear occurs in the
> presence of metallic particles.
>

but metallics are a small proportion. and /some/ metallics can be
beneficial - the soft ones like brass and lead for instance.

regarding particle size:

http://mr2.com/TEXT/oil_filter_test.html

i need to refresh my memory on typical hydrodynamic separations for
journal bearings, but typical filtered oil particle size really isn't a
problem.

quickly googling, i find this! powder separated journal bearings?!!!
whoda thunk...
http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/serv...ifs=yes&ref=no

Re: new Honda CR-V break in
 

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <dplsj5153smn7npsj0dp06uhpq0tqd76gb@4ax.com>,
> "Guy" <void@void.com> wrote:
>
>> Personally I've read Hondas can be abused and
>> still no problems.
>
> hehehehe--reminds me of my 79 Civic. The oil system had a nifty
> self-changing feature. When the oil light flickered during hard right
> turns, it was time to add more oil.


Heh heh... I can vouch for that after a valve cover seal failed on one
of my Civics. Doesn't take long to empty it out! Had to spring for a
$5+ (ouch!) bottle of oil to get home where I promptly replaced the
gasket...

JT

Re: new Honda CR-V break in
 

The book that comes with the car does talk about additional servicing
requirements in special circumstances 0- that may help.

Honestly you'd be better sticking to a dealer, standard servicing and the
oil Honda recommends

The CRV uses long life fluids (including coolant and PAS) so ensure that IF
you need to top anything up use the Honda stuff

If you care about the car then there's the usual advice - check fluids
regularly, don't thrash a cold engine and no VERY heavy braking for a few
thousand miles, give it a polish before winter and clean salt off the
"chassis"
"Grumpy AuContraire" <GrumpyOne@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote in message
news:ieCdnVqMq_J6it3WnZ2dnUVZ_uRi4p2d@giganews.com ...
> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>> In article <dplsj5153smn7npsj0dp06uhpq0tqd76gb@4ax.com>,
>> "Guy" <void@void.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Personally I've read Hondas can be abused and
>>> still no problems.
>>
>> hehehehe--reminds me of my 79 Civic. The oil system had a nifty
>> self-changing feature. When the oil light flickered during hard right
>> turns, it was time to add more oil.
>
>
> Heh heh... I can vouch for that after a valve cover seal failed on one of
> my Civics. Doesn't take long to empty it out! Had to spring for a $5+
> (ouch!) bottle of oil to get home where I promptly replaced the gasket...
>
> JT
>

Re: new Honda CR-V break in
 

On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 09:26:55 -0000, "thomas"
<toooommygin@retardedloony.com> wrote:

>The book that comes with the car does talk about additional servicing
>requirements in special circumstances 0- that may help.
>
>Honestly you'd be better sticking to a dealer, standard servicing and the
>oil Honda recommends
>
>The CRV uses long life fluids (including coolant and PAS) so ensure that IF
>you need to top anything up use the Honda stuff
>
>If you care about the car then there's the usual advice - check fluids
>regularly, don't thrash a cold engine and no VERY heavy braking for a few
>thousand miles, give it a polish before winter and clean salt off the
>"chassis"
>"Grumpy AuContraire" <GrumpyOne@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote in message
>news:ieCdnVqMq_J6it3WnZ2dnUVZ_uRi4p2d@giganews.co m...
>> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>> In article <dplsj5153smn7npsj0dp06uhpq0tqd76gb@4ax.com>,
>>> "Guy" <void@void.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Personally I've read Hondas can be abused and
>>>> still no problems.
>>>
>>> hehehehe--reminds me of my 79 Civic. The oil system had a nifty
>>> self-changing feature. When the oil light flickered during hard right
>>> turns, it was time to add more oil.
>>
>>
>> Heh heh... I can vouch for that after a valve cover seal failed on one of
>> my Civics. Doesn't take long to empty it out! Had to spring for a $5+
>> (ouch!) bottle of oil to get home where I promptly replaced the gasket...
>>
>> JT
>>


Thanks Thomas. I'll follow all you say except maybe the last part
<g>. Where I live, we don't get snow but every 5 to 10 years but
where I used to live, almost every year so I know what you mean by
salt. I guess I'll buy some Honda products (fluids) to store around
the garage.

Re: new Honda CR-V break in
 

"Guy" <void@void.com> wrote in message
news:mi91k59uj6u5sua9ki5itgboo85djnkago@4ax.com...
> Thanks Thomas. I'll follow all you say except maybe the last part
> <g>. Where I live, we don't get snow but every 5 to 10 years but
> where I used to live, almost every year so I know what you mean by
> salt. I guess I'll buy some Honda products (fluids) to store around
> the garage.
Sorry Guy, are you one of those people (nutters? ;-) who are sensible and
keep their cars for years AND years as its the most economical w\y of
running a car and not worried about MPG and think "whole life costs" is
the only way to gauge "economy"?
I'll not mention the Toyota Pious but as Car Companies are most concerned
about PPM ( pence per mile - I'm guessing cents per mile in your case? :)
and looking good over 3/5 years rather than the whole life there is nothing
wrong in changing the oil a little more often or the ATF twice as often as
the companies advise - I know that BMW for instance talk about "sealed for
life" transmissions for instance BUT BMw specialists often talk about
changing the oil twice as often and the transmission fluid at least every
48k

sorry - this ad vise probable don't help do it? ;-)

Re: new Honda CR-V break in
 

In article <7qdrjpFfflU1@mid.individual.net>,
"thomas" <toooommygin@retardedloony.com> wrote:

> I know that BMW for instance talk about "sealed for
> life" transmissions

yeah--the life of the finance contract or the life of the warranty.

BMW is able to make utterly disposable cars because their penishead
buyers are dumber than oatmeal and trade them in for new leases every
two years.

Re: new Honda CR-V break in
 

Oi, don't sit on the fence - tell us how it really is:)

Also Is there a new joke there somewhere - whats the difference between a
bmw driver and oatmeal?
people like oatmeal!
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-F38DB1.07142004012010@nothing.attdns.com...
> In article <7qdrjpFfflU1@mid.individual.net>,
> "thomas" <toooommygin@retardedloony.com> wrote:
>
>> I know that BMW for instance talk about "sealed for
>> life" transmissions
>
> yeah--the life of the finance contract or the life of the warranty.
>
> BMW is able to make utterly disposable cars because their penishead
> buyers are dumber than oatmeal and trade them in for new leases every
> two years.

Re: new Honda CR-V break in
 

thomas wrote:
> Oi, don't sit on the fence - tell us how it really is:)
>
> Also Is there a new joke there somewhere - whats the difference between
> a bmw driver and oatmeal?
> people like oatmeal!


Not me... I think that oatmeal is for, well, er, ahhh... hosses 'n the
like. Putrid stuff!

Of course, I'm not anyway supportive of BMWs either..

JT

Re: new Honda CR-V break in
 

On 01/04/2010 10:16 AM, thomas wrote:
> Oi, don't sit on the fence - tell us how it really is:)
>
> Also Is there a new joke there somewhere - whats the difference between
> a bmw driver and oatmeal?
> people like oatmeal!
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
> news:elmop-F38DB1.07142004012010@nothing.attdns.com...
>> In article <7qdrjpFfflU1@mid.individual.net>,
>> "thomas" <toooommygin@retardedloony.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I know that BMW for instance talk about "sealed for
>>> life" transmissions
>>
>> yeah--the life of the finance contract or the life of the warranty.
>>
>> BMW is able to make utterly disposable cars because their penishead
>> buyers are dumber than oatmeal and trade them in for new leases every
>> two years.
>

yeah, but what's the difference between bmw drivers and people that
don't like them? it's the bmw drivers that don't care!

Re: new Honda CR-V break in
 

On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 13:40:27 -0600, "Guy" <void@void.com> wrote:

>Thanks JR, I gotcha. That sounds reasonable. I do intend to read
>the manual regardless but I really wanted to know how others drove
>their newer cars especially for breakin. I imagine my CR-V tho not
>an EX will seem like a EX compared to my Accord LX of 7 years ago so
>I'll have to get used to the extra bells and whistles. Anyway,
>thanks for the straight advice and without the accusations.

OK, I'll admit, I drive it a little easy for the first few hundred
miles, I'm only up to 1,500 now and still at least feel a little
guilty when I rev it above about 5,000 even briefly. I guess it takes
until the second oil change, when the car starts getting better
mileage as well, that I consider it fully broken in!

I do wish Honda would publish the algorithm they use for the minder,
how many points for a cold start, how many points for high revs, etc.

I remember doing oil changes every 3,000 miles on the ol' 1987, I also
remember about the 2004 model year when Honda said go 10,000 miles
between changes if you have easy driving. I thought I had easy
driving, and did go 10,000 miles between changes at least once. So
when I got the first model with the minder in 2007, I was a bit
surprised when it decided I should change around 6,000 miles. Such is
life. Maybe Honda decided they'd overshot a little on the 10,000
estimate.

J.

Re: new Honda CR-V break in
 

On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 21:49:50 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <invalid@invalid.inv>
wrote:

>The threaded rectangle on my original pan and the one on the new pan
>(installed 1994) were definitely of different thicknesses, with the new one
>being thicker. I believe Honda has changed the pans since 1991, and that's
>why we don't hear of stripped drain plugs nearly as often as we used to ten
>years ago.

IIRC, the story the dealer gave back when about stripped oil plugs was
corrosion. If that was ever correct, maybe they found a more
resistant grade of steel for it. I think my 1987 Accord had the pan
replaced once, maybe twice, in the twelve years I drove it.

Since I've been on a three-year lease cycle, I've had no further
experience with the issue.

J.

Re: new Honda CR-V break in
 

JRStern <JRStern@foobar.invalid> wrote in
news:4v15k55pk663amjm67mqji1qkr5g92sljg@4ax.com:

> On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 21:49:50 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <invalid@invalid.inv>
> wrote:
>
>>The threaded rectangle on my original pan and the one on the new pan
>>(installed 1994) were definitely of different thicknesses, with the
>>new one being thicker. I believe Honda has changed the pans since
>>1991, and that's why we don't hear of stripped drain plugs nearly as
>>often as we used to ten years ago.
>
> IIRC, the story the dealer gave back when about stripped oil plugs was
> corrosion. If that was ever correct,



I think that's total nonsense. The plug threads are bathed in oil. Even if
the oil were neglected to the point where water would build up and cause
corrosion, it most certainly would not happen in three years.

I have never in my life ever seen an oil drain plug with corroded threads,
even when what was in the pan was almost molasses.

That dealer was feeding you a line so he could cover up for his inept and
lazy monkeys.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: new Honda CR-V break in
 

On 01/04/2010 04:27 PM, JRStern wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 13:40:27 -0600, "Guy"<void@void.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks JR, I gotcha. That sounds reasonable. I do intend to read
>> the manual regardless but I really wanted to know how others drove
>> their newer cars especially for breakin. I imagine my CR-V tho not
>> an EX will seem like a EX compared to my Accord LX of 7 years ago so
>> I'll have to get used to the extra bells and whistles. Anyway,
>> thanks for the straight advice and without the accusations.
>
> OK, I'll admit, I drive it a little easy for the first few hundred
> miles, I'm only up to 1,500 now and still at least feel a little
> guilty when I rev it above about 5,000 even briefly. I guess it takes
> until the second oil change, when the car starts getting better
> mileage as well, that I consider it fully broken in!
>
> I do wish Honda would publish the algorithm they use for the minder,
> how many points for a cold start, how many points for high revs, etc.
>
> I remember doing oil changes every 3,000 miles on the ol' 1987, I also
> remember about the 2004 model year when Honda said go 10,000 miles
> between changes if you have easy driving. I thought I had easy
> driving, and did go 10,000 miles between changes at least once. So
> when I got the first model with the minder in 2007, I was a bit
> surprised when it decided I should change around 6,000 miles. Such is
> life. Maybe Honda decided they'd overshot a little on the 10,000
> estimate.
>
> J.
>

i wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't honda bowing to dealer
pressure/bleating to get people back in the shop more often. dealers
/want/ you in more often so they can make more money. contrast that
with bmw who offer free maintenance for the first few years - they want
to see you as little as possible, and their oil changes go 10-15k.

[interestingly, if you look up oil analysis examples online, mile for
mile honda steel count - which correlates to wear rate and materials
quality - is of the order of ten times /less/ than that of bmw. oil
breakdown stability aside, that would imply honda being able to have a
longer service interval than bmw, not shorter.]

Re: new Honda CR-V break in
 

On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 17:30:57 -0800, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>i wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't honda bowing to dealer
>pressure/bleating to get people back in the shop more often. dealers
>/want/ you in more often so they can make more money. contrast that
>with bmw who offer free maintenance for the first few years - they want
>to see you as little as possible, and their oil changes go 10-15k.

Did not know that.

BMW goes that long, with conventional oil? And even the first?

Well, maybe they want you to wear things out!


>[interestingly, if you look up oil analysis examples online, mile for
>mile honda steel count - which correlates to wear rate and materials
>quality - is of the order of ten times /less/ than that of bmw. oil
>breakdown stability aside, that would imply honda being able to have a
>longer service interval than bmw, not shorter.]

Reminds me of an air pollution check on one of my old Hondas, required
here in California every two years. Actual pollution line was barely
off the zero, way way better than required. I guess that's why they
started the "ULEV" labels and such, but I still felt like I deserved a
medal, or a discount, or something, for driving such a clean car.

Honda good.

(of course, that doesn't really count towards the modern trendy
"carbon footprint" issue, but that's another story)

J.